03-27-2019 11:41 AM
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  1. flyingkytez's Avatar
    That's extremely abnormal use lol; the 2012 Li-on batteries use in iPhones are in no way intended to go through 2000-3000 charge cycles. While the technology has improved since then, the standard estimation of safe usage is still the earlier of 400-500 charge cycles or a three year period. The time frame is included as a factor because the batteries age, even if they aren't being used and shed voltage. Your friend is over double the time-frame and 4 to 6 times the charge cycle expectancy.
    6 years is abnormal? What about laptops? Those are computers with longer average usage. The Samsung laptop I have is from 2013, it has a sealed battery underneath the plastic bottom shell. Samsung included a feature which stops the charging to 80% to preserve the battery over time, battery is still good but the plastic shell kinda got warped where the battery is. iPads are kept plugged in 24/7 with the HEADPHONE JACK square credit card reader as a replacement for a POS cashier system. Do they throw away the device every few years? I don't think so. I still have an iPhone 4 from 2010, still using it for music. Battery did not swell up or has any problems since it was kept away for a while and not used. I had a Blackberry from 2006 I found in the closet.. still works, no swelling. Batteries can last a very, very long time. The swelling and weak batteries depends on a variety of factors. Funny thing is Apple makes TOP QUALITY hardware and it's LASTING TOO LONG, so they tried to get people to throw it away finally, first with the #batterygate by purposely SLOWING DOWN their device.. now after a huge backlash, they reversed it... instead NOW they made it obsolete by making apps not backwards compatible with older iOS software, forcing people to give up their devices and trash them or collect dust in the drawer (in comparison, Android apps are completely 100% backwards compatible with older OS versions). I wonder where all the obsolete devices end up? Most likely 3rd world countries where children burn and melt them to extract gold (not kidding, look it up yourself). Manufactures are seeing a slowdown in sales and people are keeping their phones longer since phones nowadays are "good enough". If you're an Apple user, good luck. They will implement planned obsolescence eventually after 2 years although the hardware is perfectly fine. I'm suspecting Samsung purposely making some devices last only up to a certain amount of time, especially their TVs by including low quality capacitors which have a limited lifespan. If they made a TV that lasted forever, nobody would need to buy a TV again.
    08-30-2018 10:45 AM
  2. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    A guy actually did research on the actual cost of Smartphones, it's around $250 each. They profit from selling it for $1000, then drop the price 1/2 off a year later. When they have a "sale", people THINK they are getting an awesome deal because the $1000 price tag is slashed off.. when in reality, it's a fake tactic to boost sales by weekly cycling prices for each device to help sell.

    https://www.techwalls.com/production...f-smartphones/
    The actual cost of smartphones is not around $250. Your link doesn't even say that. Here's the most recent flagships, and base storage options for each:

    iPhone X 389.50
    iPhone 8+ 295.44
    Note 8 369.00 (Note 9 BOM info isn't available yet)
    S9+ 379

    The average of those is $358.24, not $250.

    It also says specifically, "Notice that we don’t take into account other costs like marketing, research and development, distribution, staff or packaging, so the manufacturers wouldn’t earn that much profit from their products." - in the article.

    When you produce a number that's 43% wrong, out of context, and use it to make a point that is directly contradicted by your source - that's a good example of why a lot of posts can be considered to be misinformation. This is the third post or yours, in just this thread, where almost every single sentence that you write is either outright false or is intentionally misleading in it's presentation.
    08-30-2018 10:46 AM
  3. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Someone please tell me about this. Is it a side loaded app I can install to my V20? Does it support all the cameras? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0faa4565e8.jpg
    Here you go:
    (Direct Download Link)
    www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=817550096634795524

    (Android Central Discussion)
    https://forums.androidcentral.com/lg...oks-great.html

    It's a modded camera app originally from a developer on XDA, taken from the Pixel 2 camera app. This one is specific for Snapdragon 820 phones like the V20. Looks good with the "post processing" auto enhancement feature.

    Share your photos on the forum discussion link above! Let us see your samples and what you think about it!
    08-30-2018 10:54 AM
  4. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    6 years is abnormal?
    When the average life cycle of a Li-on battery is 400-500 cycles or three years, whichever comes first, yes - six years is abnormal. If the person is truly using it for daily use, that means they have at least 2000 but probably closer to 3000 charge cycles. That is between 4 and 6 times the average life cycle while also being over double the normal age because six years is double three years.
    08-30-2018 10:54 AM
  5. flyingkytez's Avatar
    The actual cost of smartphones is not around $250. Your link doesn't even say that. Here's the most recent flagships, and base storage options for each:

    iPhone X 389.50
    iPhone 8+ 295.44
    Note 8 369.00 (Note 9 BOM info isn't available yet)
    S9+ 379

    The average of those is $358.24, not $250.

    It also says specifically, "Notice that we don’t take into account other costs like marketing, research and development, distribution, staff or packaging, so the manufacturers wouldn’t earn that much profit from their products." - in the article.

    When you produce a number that's 43% wrong, out of context, and use it to make a point that is directly contradicted by your source - that's a good example of why a lot of posts can be considered to be misinformation. This is the third post or yours, in just this thread, where almost every single sentence that you write is either outright false or is intentionally misleading in it's presentation.
    "Average" meaning across the number of most common smartphones. The iPhone X is not common and is considered a premium version.

    Apple iPhone 8 (64GB) $254.87
    Google Pixel XL (32GB) $285.75
    Samsung Galaxy S7 (32GB) $255

    How is that misleading? These are the actual costs. I used to work for a Taiwanese tech company and know exactly how pricing works. Yes, of course there's costs for marketing, but the point is the actual VALUE of these phones are driven up by the VALUE people place on it... Just like DIAMONDS, they are NOT rare but people think they are, and people place a value on what is basically rocks. Some marketing is actually FREE because of something called PARTNERSHIPS, retailers will work with manufacturers to help push sales, placing them on the front page. The manufacturer creates a false high MSRP price to have LEGROOM to play around with sales and profits, making "sales" appear attractive, especially if one day you walk into the store and the price was $800, next week, you see it is $600, then black Friday it's $300.. but the actual cost is $250 so the manufacturer has WIGGLE ROOM to play around with. The purpose is to MAXIMIZE PROFITS and it takes skillful strategy.
    08-30-2018 11:19 AM
  6. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Apple iPhone 8 (64GB) $254.87
    Google Pixel XL (32GB) $285.75
    Pixel XL is a 2016 phone, I included 2017 & 2018 phones, particularly because in 2017 is when we saw the prices of materials skyrocket, which caused the prices of phones to increase. But if you want to include it fine, new average is $343.74.

    iPhone 8 is clearly not the flagship when I included both the 8+ and the iPhone X. That's the same reason the S9+ and Note 8 are included, but not the regular S9.

    If you want to include the Pixel 2 XL, we'd have to create an estimate. The only fair way to do that is to look at what happened with it's competitors and apply the same scaling.

    To do this we find that the iPhone 8+ is 6.4% more expensive to manufacture than the iPhone 7+ and the S9+ is 10.5% more expensive to manufacture than the S8+ and so our expectation for the P2XL would be that it's in that range, between $303.25 and $314.91 with a mean estimate of about $309.08. Doing this with the 2017 to 2018 cost difference on Samsung is MORE fair to your case, because the difference the year prior was 34.5% rather than 10.5%. Because component costs skyrocketed.

    If you want to add that to the list instead of the 2016 phone, our average is now $348.40.

    Either way, the mean cost of top tier phones in 2017/2018 seams to be between our low estimate of $348.40 and a higher estimate of 358.24. Neither of those numbers are remotely in the range of $250, let alone an average of them - given that every single number available is at least 12% higher than $250, the average logically must be at least 12% higher than $250 and in fact it is at 40% higher than $250.

    Let me know if you need all the steps of the math, but it's fairly straight forward.
    08-30-2018 11:33 AM
  7. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Hopefully this helps to give away the point of what we're talking about:

    Sprint LG v20 still the best-flagship-costs.png

    As you can see, the average price of flagships crossed $250 between 2014 and 2015 and is now averaging over $350.

    As you can see, the average price of non-flagships crossed $250 between 2016 and 2017 and is now averaging over $281.

    There is a problem with the data in that it only includes Samsung and Apple phones, with 1 Google phone. Adding in other OEM's would make the data better, but no matter how we slice it, $250 is not the number and should not ever be repeated as the average BOM. And that still doesn't solve the fact that the BOM is not an all inclusive number, so you cannot calculate margin off of it.
    08-30-2018 11:50 AM
  8. Ry's Avatar
    Because these products only cost the sum of their physical parts.
    08-30-2018 02:45 PM
  9. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Because these products only cost the sum of their physical parts.
    But.. !!
    08-30-2018 05:01 PM
  10. Mike Dee's Avatar
    But.. !!
    Yeah....all the overheads are free....lol
    08-30-2018 06:22 PM
  11. Greedog's Avatar
    Would it be suffice to say that the markup is nearly 65% and stop the useless nitpicking?
    08-31-2018 11:00 PM
  12. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Would it be suffice to say that the markup is nearly 65% and stop the useless nitpicking?
    Nah, that'd be ignoring the fact that the the article contradicts that, which was already addressed in the "useless nitpicking" - though apparently insufficiently because the reason that figure is wildly inaccurate is addressed multiple times - and that recent years have grossly slimmed the margins on these devices.

    It would be sufficient to say that BOM prices have increased by a large amount, especially recently and that BOM prices are nowhere near the total sunk costs that go into production. That's why almost all phone OEMs are losing money on their Hardware divisions. For many years Apple was the only exception to that.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-31-2018 11:50 PM
  13. Greedog's Avatar
    Nah, that'd be ignoring the fact that the the article contradicts that, which was already addressed in the "useless nitpicking" - though apparently insufficiently because the reason that figure is wildly inaccurate is addressed multiple times - and that recent years have grossly slimmed the margins on these devices.

    It would be sufficient to say that BOM prices have increased by a large amount, especially recently and that BOM prices are nowhere near the total sunk costs that go into production. That's why almost all phone OEMs are losing money on their Hardware divisions. For many years Apple was the only exception to that.
    Ok. Can we agree that given Apple's market share is still under 20% (last I checked) and they still make more money than all others combined. Would that not indicate a huge profit margin?
    Apple makes great stuff and their ecosystem is top shelf. I used to buy some Apple products but never fully bought into their stuff totally due to over pricing. Still won't.
    You're correct in saying that phone oem's disappear cuz they can't turn a profit sufficient enough to sustain growth. But...
    For me and only me I will try to buy products at least a year old to try and keep as much money as I can in my pocket and still have the same amount of thrill. Just delayed and cheaper.
    I love my gadgets and would love to try every flagship phone out there but it's all about money.
    That's why I just bought the V20 two months ago. Saved a bundle. Still a great phone.
    huntnyc likes this.
    09-01-2018 08:19 AM
  14. Mike Dee's Avatar
    Ok. Can we agree that given Apple's market share is still under 20% (last I checked) and they still make more money than all others combined. Would that not indicate a huge profit margin?
    Apple makes great stuff and their ecosystem is top shelf. I used to buy some Apple products but never fully bought into their stuff totally due to over pricing. Still won't.
    You're correct in saying that phone oem's disappear cuz they can't turn a profit sufficient enough to sustain growth. But...
    For me and only me I will try to buy products at least a year old to try and keep as much money as I can in my pocket and still have the same amount of thrill. Just delayed and cheaper.
    I love my gadgets and would love to try every flagship phone out there but it's all about money.
    That's why I just bought the V20 two months ago. Saved a bundle. Still a great phone.
    You could have bought the V20 a year ago and saved a bundle. Some phones devalue quicker than others.
    09-01-2018 08:42 AM
  15. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Ok. Can we agree that given Apple's market share is still under 20% (last I checked) and they still make more money than all others combined. Would that not indicate a huge profit margin?
    It doesn't mean a huge margin, it just means that there is a margin. When looking at the 20/80% we have to factor in that most phones sold globally are mid-range/budget devices that typically have no margin on the hardware. If we're looking at flagships, which is the only data available from what was linked for the BOM tables, Apple actually represents much closer to 50% of flagship sales. One a minimum number of sales is met, that number being the sum of all sunk costs divided by the sale price of each device less the BOM of each device, all sales from that point out are profit. Sunk costs include the number of devices planned for RMA processes, marketing of all devices, salaries and wages of all employees in the company, contract rates for all affiliate and partner agreements, cost of all R&D, etc. and they are divided proportionally across all unit sales. According to this post: https://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/new...rpoint-1793083 Apple made about $151 per iPhone made during Q3 of 2017, which they compare to Samsung, who averaged $31 per Samsung phone sold, over the same period. Obviously $151 per device on a lineup with a median price of $833.33 is a profit margin of only about 18%, which is a maximum value, because the real value would be on an aggregate mean price that is smaller due to more cheaper phones selling than the iPhone X.
    09-01-2018 10:33 AM
  16. Almeuit's Avatar
    You must love conspiracy theory websites lol. You sure do make a lot up.
    Here's the thing: Google is a gigantic MONOPOLY. They buy and sell companies like Pokemon cards (Motorola, part of HTC, and many other apps/companies). Their sales for the Pixel was always low, pretending to be "out of stock" to create a false supply and demand, thus creating hype. They pay YouTube reviewers cash to "talk kindly" of their phone, even on this website too. That's called business and advertising. However, their sales are always weak and their products are just Google saying, "Look, we have our own version too!". VR? Not the best, Oculus wins. Chromecast? Weak.. people use Amazon TV. Pixel Chromebook? Overpowered junk, powerful so-called laptop that only can do cloud computing. Google has money, and money equals power.. had they been someone else, they'd be finished or bought out by now. Samsung number of sales are shrinking every year.. the top selling Galaxy phones were the S3 and S4. They make money doing other things, such as selling iPhone parts which they make much more money than their own phones. Samsung also has power too. HTC is on its last legs, literally. Motorola still has Lenovo's computer business keeping them alive. Apple is always number one for reasons unknown. I'm just saying it like it is and what I'm seeing happening right now. This new $300 Xiaomi Pocophone F1, if released to the US, will be a game changer.. extremely competitive Chinese brands can afford this kind of pricing.. let's see if the US will tax the heck out of them or not. Google can do whatever the heck they want and will not suffer losses.. they have play money like Monopoly.
    09-03-2018 10:35 AM
  17. Almeuit's Avatar
    Exactly. The Google camera is satisfactory.. pictures look good enough. Wired is just more convenient and with the DAC it sounds much better.. I think the obvious choice is people prefer the wired audio cables, they're only using Bluetooth now because they were "forced" to.
    I was forced to use Bluetooth? No I wasn't .. I used it for years even when I had a jack lol. No wires is way more convenient for me.
    09-03-2018 10:37 AM
  18. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    All of these statements are false:
    Google is a gigantic MONOPOLY
    Their sales for the Pixel was always low, pretending to be "out of stock" to create a false supply and demand, thus creating hype.
    They pay YouTube reviewers cash to "talk kindly" of their phone, even on this website too.
    That's called business and advertising.
    However, their sales are always weak and their products are just Google saying, "Look, we have our own version too!".
    Chromecast? Weak.. people use Amazon TV
    Pixel Chromebook? Overpowered junk, powerful so-called laptop that only can do cloud computing.
    Google has money, and money equals power.. had they been someone else, they'd be finished or bought out by now
    Motorola still has Lenovo's computer business keeping them alive.
    Motorola still has Lenovo's computer business keeping them alive.
    Apple is always number one for reasons unknown.
    This new $300 Xiaomi Pocophone F1, if released to the US, will be a game changer.. extremely competitive Chinese brands can afford this kind of pricing.. let's see if the US will tax the heck out of them or not.
    Google can do whatever the heck they want and will not suffer losses.
    they have play money like Monopoly.
    These ones need more clarification:
    Samsung number of sales are shrinking every year.. the top selling Galaxy phones were the S3 and S4.
    Source? I couldn't find anything that substantiated either claim except for the telegram article from last year, which was 1) based on erroneous data and 2) didn't consider the fact that smartphones sales, overall, as a market, are shrinking and Samsung is consistently WIDENING their lead in marketshare. In fact, Q4 2017, as an example, the top 6 OEM's ALL increased their marketshare, year over year. That means the smaller OEM's, as a group went down and the top 6 consolidated their lead. During that same period, sales across all OEM's went down by 25 million units year over year.
    They make money doing other things, such as selling iPhone parts which they make much more money than their own phones. Samsung also has power too.
    I think you're saying that they are more profitable in their hardware component ventures than in their mobile division. That'd be true. As an example, Samsung makes more profit off of every iPhone sold than on their own flagships. Which is a component of why your earlier statements about profit margins are false.
    HTC is on its last legs, literally.
    "On it's last legs" is an idiom, and therefore cannot be literally true. This sentence is false. Also, HTC is not "on it's last legs", aside from the point that it doesn't have legs, it is a company, which is a legal fiction - HTC's mobile division is struggling, but you have no idea if they're going to close tomorrow or next year or 10 years from now or turn it around and continue to be successful for 100 years.
    I'm just saying it like it is and what I'm seeing happening right now.
    So far you've said 3 true statements and this one is not one of them. I do believe that this is how you "see it", but how you see it and how things actually are seem to have no relationship whatsoever.

    I'm really hoping that you noticed the pattern above. You gave one hell of a rant, but almost none of what you said was true in any sense of the concept of facts based on reality. This pattern, the fact that almost everything you say can be easily verified to be false and is almost instantly recognizable as false, is why there is so much resistance to your statements. I'm really hoping that with the "fake news" trend in the world, that people in general start asking for sources and for people to make honest arguments in good faith, backed by evidence and reason rather than just stringing together as many lies as possible, wadding them up and firing them shotgun style into the conversation with the hope that it'll be so overwhelming that people won't even try to sift through all the nonsense. Well, this morning I had the time to sift through it and I have to say, the overall theme of your posts is pretty clear. They're untrue.

    Let me know if you need any of the data or simple reasoning to show why the statements I called out are untrue. I think they're all fairly obvious, but if not happy to show you why.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2018 10:57 AM
  19. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    I was forced to use Bluetooth? No I wasn't .. I used it for years even when I had a jack lol. No wires is way more convenient for me.
    Don't worry about it. He was walked through this false choice fallacy in 2016 and again in 2017 and at this point it's painfully obvious to everyone that he knows that he's lying when he says people are "forced" to use BT. I don't like throwing around the claim that others are lying, but it's fair to do so when you know someone is repeating something despite the fact that they know it is untrue. It's also painfully obvious that he's not using any verifiable data to speak on behalf of "people" or "most people".
    09-03-2018 11:00 AM
  20. Mike Dee's Avatar
    Don't worry about it. He was walked through this false choice fallacy in 2016 and again in 2017 and at this point it's painfully obvious to everyone that he knows that he's lying when he says people are "forced" to use BT. I don't like throwing around the claim that others are lying, but it's fair to do so when you know someone is repeating something despite the fact that they know it is untrue. It's also painfully obvious that he's not using any verifiable data to speak on behalf of "people" or "most people".
    Forced to use Bluetooth is just diabolically incorrect diatribe. We all know that all of the phones that eliminated the 3.5 jack provide an adapter and in some cases this actually means better sound. I mostly use wired devices because they usually offer better sound but I have on order the new Sony WH1000 XM3s. Like their prior version they use the LDAC codec which is supported by Oreo and is very close to wired sound. I have no problem going wireless and I'm not being forced to do so.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2018 12:33 PM
  21. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Forced to use Bluetooth is just diabolically incorrect diatribe. We all know that all of the phones that eliminated the 3.5 jack provide an adapter and in some cases this actually means better sound. I mostly use wired devices because they usually offer better sound but I have on order the new Sony WH1000 XM3s. Like their prior version they use the LDAC codec which is supported by Oreo and is very close to wired sound. I have no problem going wireless and I'm not being forced to do so.
    Here's the choices with an LG V20 and an iPhone X:
    1) Device Speakers
    2) Wireless Headphones
    3) Wired Headphones

    The same is true of 100% of smartphone flagships that have been released in the last 8 years.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2018 12:38 PM
  22. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Having read the article about the rumored V40 spec sheet, I still think the V20 is going to be the best total package. Just not enough in that article to excite me, so I'll likely pass on it. At least until it drops way down in price. If my V20 goes out before then and I can't make a claim on my extended warranty for it, then I may look to other phones. Heck, if everyone is going to copy Samsung, I may as well just get a Samsung.
    09-03-2018 12:47 PM
  23. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Having read the article about the rumored V40 spec sheet, I still think the V20 is going to be the best total package. Just not enough in that article to excite me, so I'll likely pass on it. At least until it drops way down in price. If my V20 goes out before then and I can't make a claim on my extended warranty for it, then I may look to other phones. Heck, if everyone is going to copy Samsung, I may as well just get a Samsung.
    I'd have to agree. I think Samsung does a better job at being Samsung than LG does. The V40 vs the Note 9 I think we have a very obvious comparison. V40 wins on audio quality, # of cameras, probably wins on photo quality in manual mode. In my opinion the front of the V40 looks better than the front of the Note 9 too. The Note 9 then wins on display, probably auto-mode photos and for people that want the pen, it has that. Samsung also provides more consistent updates historically, for those that care about that. Bottom line, unless someone is really into audio and/or is going to get a lot out of the manual camera controls, assuming they're similarly priced, the Note 9 has an edge, but they're basically the same phone in a too many ways.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2018 01:12 PM
  24. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Right now the V20 can be bought NIP for around $200 according to a Google search. That vs $800 for the V30 and presumably the V40... I'd probably buy 2 or 3 V20's and use them for a couple years.
    09-03-2018 01:20 PM
  25. flyingkytez's Avatar
    You must love conspiracy theory websites lol. You sure do make a lot up.
    Is this a conspiracy?

    "The company reportedly only shipped 3.9 million Pixel phones in 2017, according to IDC research director Francisco Jeronimo. For Google, that's not too shabby for a newcomer -- it's twice the number of Pixels from the year before -- but overall it's still pretty weak, and a sign that there's a long road ahead before the company even comes close to challenging Apple and Samsung.

    iPhone and Galaxy phone sales dwarfed Pixel by a massive margin. Apple sold 216.7 million iPhones and Samsung sold 316.4 million Android smartphones last year, according to IDC numbers."

    The question at this point is how can they still survive in this competitive market? I'll let you figure that out. Stop saying I'm making this up, I'm not. I'm reading these from multiple sources. Unless you're saying they're all fake?

    https://mashable.com/2018/02/13/goog...hipments-weak/
    09-05-2018 08:07 AM
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