ZeroLemon 10,000 mAh extended battery rules

[datum9]

The runtime is awesome instead of having to recharge twice a day.

It's a must have IMO.

ZeroLemon and V20 go together like.. well, they just do.

I like the added thickness.

If it wasn't for the ZL 10K mAh cell, I would probably get another phone. Though hard to say what.

I realize there are other players on the market, like Mugen extended batteries.

 

[Rukbat]

Just remember, it's still a lithium polymer battery, so try to keep it between 40% and 95% for longest life..

 

[datum9]

Lithium-Ion batteries have a limited number of cycles. They also do not like to be fully discharged. These two kind of work against each other.

I wonder what's best, always recharge when you hit 40% or 50% to prevent low voltage situation when you are down to 15% but increasing the number of cycles or keeping the number of cycles low but letting it drop to 3.7V.

A full battery is at 4.3V, an empty one is at 3.5V or so. 4.0V is kind of around 80%. Percentage doesn't really mean anything, it's all about voltage.

I've used Li-ions for 15 years, not just in phones but in various devices, like high-performance flashlights and could never figure out that mystery.

 

[Mooncatt]

Lithium-Ion batteries have a limited number of cycles. They also do not like to be fully discharged. These two kind of work against each other.

Li-ion batteries don't have memory issues. A partial cycle can be counted as just that. If you drain to 50% and fully charge twice, that's theoretically the same as a single 0-100% cycle (of course, not accounting for the additional wear and tear by going outside the 40-75% range and other factors that impact battery life). So multiple short cycles on Li-ion are just fine, if not preferable. The only downside would be more wear and tear on the USB port that may cause the port to fail after a long time of use.

 

[datum9]

I think I damaged a number of good extended batteries but leaving them plugged in overnight. So they would charge in a few hours presumably and then end up charging or trickle-charging for the next 8 hours. I no longer charge overnight. Thee cheap chargers are pretty dumb. I think overheating the battery damages it.

I also like to get the lowest current possible. I don't like to throw an Amp or 2 Amps at the device, which is what's called fast charging, I am not sure it's good for the battery. I need a custom charger that will let me set the current rate. Like 150 mAh versus 1500 mAh. So I can dial in to a high rate if I need it charged fast or some low rate customized to charge it over 8 hours.

 

[Mooncatt]

The good news with the ZL battery is the charge rate won't be an issue. Li-ion batteries can be charged up to 1C with no major damage. In layman's terms, that's a charge rate equal to its capacity. A 1,000mAh battery could be charged at 1,000ma (1A) just fine. Quick charging on the V20 maxes out at about 2,300mA, still under the OEM 3,200mAh and a max .72C charge rate. With a 10,000mAh battery, that same 2,300 mA quick charge rate is only .23C. As far as the ZL battery is concerned, you would be slow charging it even with the QC3.0 charger running full tilt.

 

[datum9]

I understand an hour or two on the charger is fine. That is what they say.
However the real question is what happens when the battery turns full, does it keep pumping the Amps into it or does it go into the trickle-charge mode? I don't trust these chargers nor the software on the phone to leave it plugged in overnight. I installed a battery monitor that shows its temperature as it's charging. I had a number of ZL batteries that vastly diminished in capacity only about 6-9 months, I thought they should have lasted a bit longer. I plugged them in overnight. Now I wonder if that was the wrong tactic altogether. Maybe it was just the heat, or maybe it was continuous 100% charge.

I need a smart charger that will charge a battery independent of the phone. This is where either NOte 4 or LG V20's ability to swap the battery in a nanosecond comes really handy. Take out the used cell, install a fresh one. Install the used one in an external charger, set the rate. If overnight, I would rather set the amps so hits 100% precisely at the time of being removed from the charger. And this way, the USB port gets zero wear.

 

[datum9]

I got this new ZL 10K mAh battery that just keeps going and going and going.. 24 hours and its hits just under 80%. Damn. I really want to try to preserve it life and not abuse it. V20 + ZeroLemon, what a magnificent device.

The phone right before this one, Samsung S8+ and it's ridiculous 3500mAh cell is just totally not up to the task. I don't recall if it made it from 9-5 without a partial recharge, with any real use. And smaller capacities wear out faster I think. It would go from 4.2V to 3.8 in about an hour. I had the S8+ battery replaced and it became better but still vastly undersized compared to any real ZL, Mugen, etc 9-10K mAh cell.

I am not obsessed with slim. Give me so thickness. There is nothing wrong with a 20mm thick phone if I get two days out of it. Or 1.5 days.

 

[Mooncatt]

Li-ion chargers, by design and needed requirements of the battery chemistry, could be considered smart. They vary their rates based on conditions. LG is actually rather aggressive with throttling the charge rate on the phone if the screen is on or heat begins to climb.

It would also be incredibly dangerous for a charger to keep pumping out the juice once filled. As in things would go BOOM. All modern chargers are designed to shut off when full, then kick in once the voltage drops below a certain threshold. Over charging beyond 100% isn't the concern here. It's being above 75% for extended periods of time that are the concern. You could charge to 100%, pull the battery and leave it on a shelf for a couple months, and still damage it.

 

[datum9]

I am aware that ideally, batteries should be stored about 80% full.

I got lots of ZeroLemon batteries for various phones and with time, they begin to decline in runtime (capacity).

LG V10, V20, and the older LG Optimus G Pro (E980) and of course Note 4.. and Samsung S8+. (more of a power bank than a battery).

I wonder if I can attribute that to the ZL design, because others have reported it too. I mean there hasn't been any real abuse that I can recall. I never did deeply discharge the cells. Apparently after intensive use, ZL capacity begins to decline in about a year.

 

[datum9]

Of course but most chargers go into the trickle charge mode once the target voltage has been attained. I don't know at what currents. I don't know how the charging software works. When it hits the upper boundary of voltage, it cuts off, like 4.3V. That's full. Some li-ions can take up to 4.4 but 4.3V is the norm. What happens after that, when they get a signal to end charging. I charge quite a few Li-ions in dedicated chargers, mostly 18650 or 18500 cells and I know that they go into the trickle charge mode to ensure it stays fully charged. I would be surprised if the phone software acted otherwise.


It would also be incredibly dangerous for a charger to keep pumping out the juice once filled

 

[Mooncatt]

Of course but most chargers go into the trickle charge mode once the target voltage has been attained. I don't know at what currents. I don't know how the charging software works. When it hits the upper boundary of voltage, it cuts off, like 4.3V. That's full. Some li-ions can take up to 4.4 but 4.3V is the norm. What happens after that, when they get a signal to end charging. I charge quite a few Li-ions in dedicated chargers, mostly 18650 or 18500 cells and I know that they go into the trickle charge mode to ensure it stays fully charged. I would be surprised if the phone software acted otherwise.


It would also be incredibly dangerous for a charger to keep pumping out the juice once filled

My point was that you're not going to cause an explosion or anything leaving a battery on the charger, but that it's simply the act of being fully charged that causes the problem. So keeping the battery plugged in and trickle charged as needed, and a fully charged battery sitting disconnected from everything on a shelf, would each suffer about the same capacity loss over time. All else being equal, of course. This is pretty much the go to store for all the technical mumbo jumbo on the subject.

https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

[datum9]

I don't think it's a good idea to keep my ZL 10K mAh cell fully charged, I will keep it between 50-70%. Before I aimed for the 100% mark as often as possible, just so that I could have a fully charged device if needed, but I think keeping it at 100% (4.3V) is not good for battery's long-term health.
And I no longer leave it plugged in overnight.

 

[Mooncatt]

Before I aimed for the 100% mark as often as possible, just so that I could have a fully charged device if needed, but I think keeping it at 100% (4.3V) is not good for battery's long-term health.

I use to do that and killed a battery in less than 6 months. That was before I did my research.

 

[datum9]

Makes sense.

 

[RTGent]

After years of using a Lumia 950, I got a V20 so I still won't have to care about batteries running or wearing out.