1. Aquila's Avatar
    MP isn't even the largest determining factor in zoom quality. This whole thing is just a basic misunderstanding of the way photography works in smartphones. The link shared earlier by @Mooncatt has a great explanation.
    02-09-2018 12:55 PM
  2. L0n3N1nja's Avatar
    16mp vs 12mp all other things the same, 16mp would be better.

    However comparing the V20 16mp to say a Note 8 12mp the LG doesn't stand a chance.

    First, having more pixels on a smaller sensor ruins light sensitivity, so the V20 sucks at low light.

    Second, those extra pixels are just on the sides of the image. The V20 shoots in 16:9 while the S7, S8, N8, Pixel, and others are shooting at 4:3. By the time you crop the image you are working with the same pixel count in any 1:1 region of the image.

    Third you like to talk about zooming in or cropping the image. Well I already explained how you don't have more pixels above, but unlike the Note 8 and iPhone 7/8/X the V20 also lacks 2x optical zoom for getting closer to that white board of notes with ZERO loss in detail.

    So go enjoy your lower quality camera simply because of a higher MP.
    02-09-2018 12:57 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    16mp vs 12mp all other things the same, 16mp would be better.
    Only if the sensor was 33% larger on the 16 MP... and even then, it's not guaranteed.

    Second, those extra pixels are just on the sides of the image. The V20 shoots in 16:9 while the S7, S8, N8, Pixel, and others are shooting at 4:3. By the time you crop the image you are working with the same pixel count in any 1:1 region of the image.
    And this is why. That 4:3 image, for the surface area it covers, is the exact same surface area covered by the 16:9 image for that content, with additional content being stretched out to each side. It's called field of view. Here's a random example from Googling the concept:



    So the only way to make that 16:9 sharper on any content in the field of view that they share, ie: the 4:3 area, would be to change the resolution of the common space. The V20 does not do that.

    So all other things being equal, you'd get the exact same photograph. But all other things aren't equal, the image quality on most other flagships is far superior in any apples to apples comparison, including, to the best of my knowledge, the ability to zoom in on specific content. Because that's dictated by software, light, etc... and not by the aspect ratio and not by the megapixel count.
    02-09-2018 01:05 PM
  4. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Second, those extra pixels are just on the sides of the image. The V20 shoots in 16:9 while the S7, S8, N8, Pixel, and others are shooting at 4:3. By the time you crop the image you are working with the same pixel count in any 1:1 region of the image.
    So the only way to make that 16:9 sharper on any content in the field of view that they share, ie: the 4:3 area, would be to change the resolution of the common space. The V20 does not do that.
    Guys, a bit of correction.

    V20 shoots in 4:3 natively. The IMX298 is a 1/2.8" 4:3 native 16MP BSI CMOS sensor whilst the V10's IMX234 was a 1/2.6" 16MP BSI CMOS sensor that shot in 16:9 native. The V30's IMX351 on the other hand is a 1/3.1" 4:3 native 16MP BSI CMOS sensor.
    02-09-2018 01:19 PM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    Guys, a bit of correction.

    V20 shoots in 4:3 natively. The IMX298 is a 1/2.8" 4:3 native 16MP BSI CMOS sensor whilst the V10's IMX234 was a 1/2.6" 16MP BSI CMOS sensor that shot in 16:9 native. The V30's IMX351 on the other hand is a 1/3.1" 4:3 native 16MP BSI CMOS sensor.
    Roger that, I was thinking all three were 16:9.
    02-09-2018 01:20 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    True, but when switching to 16:9 on the V20, it crops the top and bottom of the sensor, giving you the reduced 12MP count. I think that's what Ninja was getting at above.
    02-09-2018 01:32 PM
  7. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Like I said, 16MP would be great if everything else was adjusted to compensate for the increased resolution. 16MP while retaining the same pixel size amongst other upgrades is an upgrade, but megapixel count has never been a sore point for phones over the past few years as very few people utilize a crop zoom.


    Sony phones up until recently were a prime example of why more MP =/= better camera.

    The hardware is phenomenal, and not because of the MP count. It's just that post-Lollipop, the software processing has taken a huge downturn, turning a ton of things into an oversharpened, watercolor mess
    Too much reliance on software processing.. the iPhone X is a perfect example.. yeah sure it looks nice but colors pop way too much.
    02-10-2018 12:42 AM
  8. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Too much reliance on software processing.. the iPhone X is a perfect example.. yeah sure it looks nice but colors pop way too much.
    Software processing is not just about colors.

    Noise reduction, sharpening, and others all count too.
    02-10-2018 12:43 AM
  9. flyingkytez's Avatar
    https://www.techforanyone.com/megapi...atter-cameras/

    Conclusion, it really depends what you use the camera for. Yes, there will be sacrifices such as low-light performance, but larger megapixels can be sharper. So if you're a landscape guy like me, maybe higher MP is ideal (the Galaxy S7 was horrible for outdoor photography, however great for fast or low-light shots). People who plan to print big posters should opt for higher MP.
    02-10-2018 12:54 AM
  10. Mooncatt's Avatar
    People who plan to print big posters should opt for higher MP.
    Even that can be debatable. Unless you're planning to pixel peep the poster up close, chances are you will be viewing it from far enough away that you can get away with a lower resolution. For example, on the extreme end, billboards and city posters are made from 6MP images with as little as 50PPI.
    02-10-2018 01:26 AM
  11. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Even that can be debatable. Unless you're planning to pixel peep the poster up close, chances are you will be viewing it from far enough away that you can get away with a lower resolution. For example, on the extreme end, billboards and city posters are made from 6MP images with as little as 50PPI.
    That's the thing.

    Bigger prints tend to be viewed from further back. Unless it's like a mega billboard, even an a7S will suffice.
    02-10-2018 01:28 AM
  12. Mike Dee's Avatar
    Give me a lens that captures more light and a larger sensor and I'll be all set
    Aquila and ManiacJoe like this.
    02-10-2018 06:13 PM
  13. flyingkytez's Avatar
    That's the thing.

    Bigger prints tend to be viewed from further back. Unless it's like a mega billboard, even an a7S will suffice.
    Again, cropping the picture. Example of scenario: taking a picture of a license plate down the highway.. Or taking pictures of the Moon.
    02-11-2018 12:10 AM
  14. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Again, cropping the picture. Example of scenario: taking a picture of a license plate down the highway.. Or taking pictures of the Moon.
    True, but that's not a case scenario that can be considered widespread enough for many people.
    02-11-2018 12:15 AM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Or taking pictures of the Moon.
    A longer longer length to optically zoom in to the moon would do more than 4 extra megapixels would. Even at 16 MP, the V20 shots don't do the moon justice. Either it's over exposed and you lose detail, or exposed properly but appears much much smaller (due to lack of flaring that over exposing would've given you), and thus crop zooming wouldn't resolve any detail either.
    02-11-2018 12:34 AM
  16. Almeuit's Avatar
    So the justification for 16 MP versus 12 MP is to take pictures of the moon?

    Wow .. lol ;P. I mean cool if that's what you do but manufacturers go with what the majority do.. and the the majority isn't sitting there taking constant photos to crop of the moon on their smartphones.
    02-11-2018 01:26 AM
  17. flyingkytez's Avatar
    True, but that's not a case scenario that can be considered widespread enough for many people.
    People crop pictures all the time.. Instagram forces you to..
    02-11-2018 10:56 AM
  18. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    People crop pictures all the time.. Instagram forces you to..
    Not anymore since a couple of years ago.

    You can upload full 4:3/16:9 shots on Instagram for ages already. Plus, the crop isn’t severe, especially on 4:3
    02-11-2018 10:57 AM
  19. flyingkytez's Avatar
    So the justification for 16 MP versus 12 MP is to take pictures of the moon?

    Wow .. lol ;P. I mean cool if that's what you do but manufacturers go with what the majority do.. and the the majority isn't sitting there taking constant photos to crop of the moon on their smartphones.
    Cropping images and capturing small details from far away (birds, street signs, landscape, etc), moon was over exaggeration example.
    02-11-2018 10:57 AM
  20. Almeuit's Avatar
    Cropping images and capturing small details from far away (birds, street signs, landscape, etc), moon was over exaggeration example.
    Still.. what you are saying isn't what normal people do with their phones. People that do this stuff / hobby have real cameras.. not their smartphones.
    MA2GA28 likes this.
    02-11-2018 11:07 AM
  21. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Still.. what you are saying isn't what normal people do with their phones. People that do this stuff / hobby have real cameras.. not their smartphones.
    Taking pictures of landscape and outdoors.. seems normal to me.. if they reduced the camera to 6MP seems like you would be okay with it.
    02-11-2018 01:33 PM
  22. Almeuit's Avatar
    Taking pictures of landscape and outdoors.. seems normal to me.. if they reduced the camera to 6MP seems like you would be okay with it.
    It sure is normal -- but not for cropping like you're talking about. Most take a picture and share it online. You're talking about taking pictures of landscapes, birds, moons --- then cropping them --- then sharing.

    Step 2, 3 aren't normal for most people. Most people who try and get really good landscape / bird shots / etc. have real cameras.

    Did I say I would be okay with it being 6 MP? Nope never did . Let's not try and change the context of the conversation here from what you think is the norm for smartphone usage to what you *think* I want.

    I said I am fine with 12 MP and how they execute it right now. You aren't since you want to snapshot the moon with a smartphone .. Sorry .. Manufactures aren't gearing towards your usage.
    MA2GA28 likes this.
    02-11-2018 01:37 PM
  23. Hawkeberry's Avatar
    I was at a business meeting.. there were notes written on the white board.. I had an idea of using my phones to zoom in with the camera to see it better.. the Galaxy S8+ with the 12MP camera couldn't make up the texts on the board due to lower resolution. The V20 in the other hand was able to see the text thanks to the higher res 16MP.
    You are doing something wrong. Never had a problem taking notes from a white board with my previous phone S7. I'd say if we ignore the wide angle lens, V30 is a step back for me from S7 when it comes to camera. It scores heavily in other areas though
    02-12-2018 05:11 AM
  24. LeoRex's Avatar
    And I'll also add that I've taken some incredible landscape shots with my 6P, XL and 2XL... Those phones' vastly superior processing leads to detail approaching higher resolution cameras, but with substantially better dynamic range.
    Aquila and RaRa85 like this.
    02-14-2018 06:46 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    You are doing something wrong. Never had a problem taking notes from a white board with my previous phone S7. I'd say if we ignore the wide angle lens, V30 is a step back for me from S7 when it comes to camera. It scores heavily in other areas though
    What he's doing wrong is assuming that more MP = better camera and then allowing anecdotal preconceptions to cloud any sort of objective understanding of the effectiveness of various photography strategies in mobile devices. It's confirmation bias to the extreme, which includes the fact that there is no actual factual basis for the bias to exist and there is no external evidence that actually supports any of the pre-determined conclusions. Flat out, MP and quality of images, INCLUDING ZOOM/CROP, have less to do with MP than with almost every other major category of image quality differentiation.
    RaRa85 likes this.
    02-14-2018 07:17 PM
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