02-06-2016 11:23 PM
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  1. frozentundra1's Avatar
    Just ordered a new Moto G. I read this article: www .androidcentral.com/beginners-guide-moto-g-2015(can't post a link because I'm new member) written by Jerry Hildenbrand in September. The article says to just pop in Sim and SD before ever powering up the phone and to skip setup and updates until after doing a couple other things first.

    I'm wondering if this is still the way to do it, even though the update to Marshmallow is available now. I've heard a couple things about how "M" works somewhat different with SD cards, but I really didn't understand it.

    Also, I don't understand using a phone to format an SD card, or if I need to do it.

    Honestly it's all just somewhat confusing to me and I don't want to make more trouble for myself than necessary. The previous smartphones I've had were both old hand-me-down iPhones from family(3something and 4s). Any tips/help with this, or any other advice about setup or use of the new Moto G would be appreciated. My phone will arrive tomorrow, so I wanted to figure this stuff out in advance. Thanks.
    02-04-2016 07:53 PM
  2. acejavelin's Avatar
    Just ordered a new Moto G. I read this article: www .androidcentral.com/beginners-guide-moto-g-2015(can't post a link because I'm new member) written by Jerry Hildenbrand in September. The article says to just pop in Sim and SD before ever powering up the phone and to skip setup and updates until after doing a couple other things first.

    I'm wondering if this is still the way to do it, even though the update to Marshmallow is available now. I've heard a couple things about how "M" works somewhat different with SD cards, but I really didn't understand it.

    Also, I don't understand using a phone to format an SD card, or if I need to do it.

    Honestly it's all just somewhat confusing to me and I don't want to make more trouble for myself than necessary. The previous smartphones I've had were both old hand-me-down iPhones from family(3something and 4s). Any tips/help with this, or any other advice about setup or use of the new Moto G would be appreciated. My phone will arrive tomorrow, so I wanted to figure this stuff out in advance. Thanks.
    OK, well if you are new to Android, just pop in your SIM and SD Card and bring the phone up and go through the setup... If your phone came with Lollipop, after a few days you will get a notice to update... go ahead and do it.

    Formatting the SD card in your phone is recommended if it prompts you to. The phone only knows FAT32, and most SD cards up to 32GB come preformated in that filesystem type, cards larger typically come in exFAT and your phone can't understand that filesystem and needs to format it.

    For the time being, I would leave the card as Portable Storage, if you are prompted to "Adopt it into internal storage" or something like that, do not do it.

    Also, for the first few days, keep the apps that you add to a minimum, just in case you mess it up and need to factory reset (uncommon, even for noobs)

    I think your over thinking it and worrying too much about the details, which will kind of sort themselves out for the most part. If you have any questions, post up here... the group is busy enough and gets enough traffic, you should get your answers within a short time.
    Crashdamage likes this.
    02-04-2016 09:29 PM
  3. frozentundra1's Avatar
    acejavelin, thanks for the reply.

    So, I'll keep the SD card as portable storage and not format it as internal storage when updating to M. I ordered a SanDisk Extreme PRO 32GB UHS-I/U3 Micro SDHC. I got it because it was fast card within the Motorola recommended specs, and didn't want it to lag things if used as internal storage.

    I've read quite a few horror stories now regarding the update to M, and am starting to wish I just didn't have to mess with it.
    02-04-2016 09:58 PM
  4. acejavelin's Avatar
    acejavelin, thanks for the reply.

    So, I'll keep the SD card as portable storage and not format it as internal storage when updating to M. I ordered a SanDisk Extreme PRO 32GB UHS-I/U3 Micro SDHC. I got it because it was fast card within the Motorola recommended specs, and didn't want it to lag things if used as internal storage.

    I've read quite a few horror stories now regarding the update to M, and am starting to wish I just didn't have to mess with it.
    Most of the horror stories are self-inflicted... If your really concerned, fire up the device, skip most of the setup wizard stuff for moving/installing apps, just add WiFi and Google account, then upgrade via OTA, and when it's complete do a factory reset and set it up like normal. There are very few people who took the OTA and had problems that a factory reset didn't fix.

    Granted, MM isn't perfect and has some minor bugs but I expect a follow up update within a few months (my opinion, no inside info, just looking at Moto's history with updates). Besides, you have no idea how annoying constant update reminders are.
    Crashdamage likes this.
    02-05-2016 08:50 AM
  5. David Alfredo's Avatar
    Most of the horror stories are self-inflicted... If your really concerned, fire up the device, skip most of the setup wizard stuff for moving/installing apps, just add WiFi and Google account, then upgrade via OTA, and when it's complete do a factory reset and set it up like normal. There are very few people who took the OTA and had problems that a factory reset didn't fix.

    Granted, MM isn't perfect and has some minor bugs but I expect a follow up update within a few months (my opinion, no inside info, just looking at Moto's history with updates). Besides, you have no idea how annoying constant update reminders are.
    Ace... I got a lot of respect for you, but to say that Marshmallow' issues with SD Cards are "self-inflicted" is a bit unfair, I got tons of experience with Android and particularly with Marshmallon on Motorola Moto G3, SD Cards issues on 6.0 are real and might have not affected you / you might have solved them but a lot of users are still battling them.

    Apart from that you said your performed a factory reset "immediately after the OTA upgrade was complete", can you please share details on this procedure ? do you mean you let the OTA upgrade your phone and then instead of "rebooting" the device when prompted after installation is done you turned the device off and performed a factory reset instead ? where in this process did you exactly performed the reset ? that might be it (you having less issues with Marshmallow).
    02-05-2016 09:23 AM
  6. acejavelin's Avatar
    Ace... I got a lot of respect for you, but to say that Marshmallow' issues with SD Cards are "self-inflicted" is a bit unfair, I got tons of experience with Android and particularly with Marshmallon on Motorola Moto G3, SD Cards issues on 6.0 are real and might have not affected you / you might have solved them but a lot of users are still battling them.

    Apart from that you said your performed a factory reset "immediately after the OTA upgrade was complete", can you please share details on this procedure ? do you mean you let the OTA upgrade your phone and then instead of "rebooting" the device when prompted after installation is done you turned the device off and performed a factory reset instead ? where in this process did you exactly performed the reset ? that might be it (you having less issues with Marshmallow).
    Yeah, your right, my apologies... when I read that later it came across wrong. When I said "horror stories" I guess I was referring to stuff like bricking and such things, most of those are indeed self inflicted because someone had flashed TWRP or a root or something like that and still took the OTA.

    The SD card issue is NOT self-inflicted and is definitely real, but is hardly a "horror story" in my book, and it effects less people than you might think... My experience with it was both as internal storage and portable, I tried internal and saw no real advantage in my situation, so I switched back to portable storage which I access all the time and have zero issues. The clear data on external and media storage always corrected

    And as far as the OTA goes, I am not talking about any special step or procedure... Take the OTA, let it complete everything until the phone is back up and running normally and has no more updates or tasks to do, then perform a standard factory reset, either via recovery or in the settings menu. This is not a new procedure, since the the days of Froyo and Gingerbread I have been recommending this after any major OTA upgrade, if even the slightest thing seems out of whack, it just seems like a major OS update tends to leave bits and pieces or settings behind that can sometimes cause problems, a factory default cleans this up most problems and puts things right again.

    And as far as Marshmallow goes, I have had virtual trouble with it that a couple clear datas didn't fix, and I never factory reset after getting it.
    David Alfredo likes this.
    02-05-2016 12:12 PM
  7. frozentundra1's Avatar
    After reading a little more, I think I would like to use the phone without the Marshmallow update for a while. I would like to experience it working as designed on "L" before I take a chance on having possible little issues manifest with the update.

    Is this even feasible? What would I have to do to facilitate this? Any major issues or concerns about going this route?
    02-05-2016 02:02 PM
  8. David Alfredo's Avatar
    After reading a little more, I think I would like to use the phone without the Marshmallow update for a while. I would like to experience it working as designed on "L" before I take a chance on having possible little issues manifest with the update.

    Is this even feasible? What would I have to do to facilitate this? Any major issues or concerns about going this route?
    your Moto G3 will always come with 5.1.1 pre-installed, so you just have to disregard the "system update available" notifications once you start receiving them, they will go away after a while anyway, also Moto G3 is designed to run on 5.1.1 and it does flawlessly, some people might prefer Marshmallow (when it's working fine) more but to be honest 99% of users can do perfectly fine with 5.1.1. Performance and user experience is the same, battery life is marginally better using Marshmallow but I you can make your device on 5.1.1 last for 3+ days with moderate usage.

    I updated twice to M and rolled back twice to 5.1.1, I simply couldn't put with the issues I had with SD-cards and other stuff, I'll try again with 6.x.x instead of 6.0
    02-05-2016 02:17 PM
  9. frozentundra1's Avatar
    Thanks for the reply, David. I am new to the whole Android thing and need to learn about this stuff. I'm hoping somebody can help me get my head around the issue a bit better before I get my device later today.

    Are there any updates or security patches released after the pre-installed 5.1.1 that would be missing by not updating and then rolling back?

    To put it another way:

    What exactly are the advantages/disadvantages to not updating from 5.1.1, VS, what are the advantages/disadvantages of upgrading to "M" and potentially rolling back to 5.1.1?

    Is it just a matter of wasted time and energy, or are there other compelling reasons to refuse updates and put up with annoying notifications for a while?
    02-05-2016 03:45 PM
  10. David Alfredo's Avatar
    Thanks for the reply, David. I am new to the whole Android thing and need to learn about this stuff. I'm hoping somebody can help me get my head around the issue a bit better before I get my device later today.

    Are there any updates or security patches released after the pre-installed 5.1.1 that would be missing by not updating and then rolling back?

    To put it another way:

    What exactly are the advantages/disadvantages to not updating from 5.1.1, VS, what are the advantages/disadvantages of upgrading to "M" and potentially rolling back to 5.1.1?

    Is it just a matter of wasted time and energy, or are there other compelling reasons to refuse updates and put up with annoying notifications for a while?
    The main advantage of staying on 5.1.1 is that the device runs flawlessly without bugs or glitches, there's no disadvantage. On the other hand, upgrading to "M" will allow for some new features while taking away / glitching others. You can find multiple reviews of Marshmallow to help you decide whether the new features are relevant to you. Also, in these forums you will see a lot of users sharing their experiences with M, bug reports, bug fixes...

    Personally I had M for quite a bit and had to roll back, I would suggest staying on 5.1.1 and just wait for upgrade notifications to go away, there will be a 6.x.x upgrade much better than the 6.0 upgrade Motorola provided.
    02-06-2016 07:18 AM
  11. Crashdamage's Avatar
    Do the Marshmallow update immediately, as soon as the phone asks to. Because while 5.1.1 is good, Marshmallow 6.0 is better, with very significant improvements both in features and bug fixes. Yes, 5.1.1, like any software, is not perfect and bug-free. If anything, 6.0 is closer to bug-free. We have had several devices running 6.0 since it was released including the old Nexus 4 I'm typing this on with no problems.

    Upgrading to 6.0 immediately, before installing apps is best because you then install the version compatible with 6.0 initially. Also, if you want to reset (I never do) it's easier.
    02-06-2016 08:38 AM
  12. David Alfredo's Avatar
    This is Motorola Moto G 2015 forum, not a Nexus'

    these are some problems (just a few) you might face when upgrading the Moto G 2015 to the firmware deployed by Motorola (Marshmallow 6.0)

    - SD card issues, a lot of apps are unable to access it, even Google Play Music can't use it to download offload music
    - Buggy access to your device content via PC: you'll be wasting time and frustrated clearing apps' data and cache every few days
    - In "adoptable" mode, some apps installed in the new storage system (SD card + internal storage) will disappear after a device reboot.
    - "Screen on" time is not as good as on 5.1.1. Doze helps when the device is in "sleep" mode but in daily usage screen time takes a hit.
    - Performance is exactly the same as in 5.1.1, only some animations are optimized so it feels a bit faster.
    - Dialer access is removed from lock screen, there's a Google Now shortcut instead
    - Marshmallow drains more battery from your WiFi and it can even bug and cause a battery drain that makes your battery go off in half a day.
    - Marshmallow' "do not disturb", it's either vibrate only or sound + vibrate (bug)... (5.1.1 can put the phone in silence + no vibration in two "clicks")
    - A lot of these bugs can be fixed with a factory reset / cache wipe but not all, SD-card issues will still be there.

    These bugs have been reported from people in this forum Moto G 2015 after upgrading to Marshmallow, you can Google them and you will find them, don't upgrade because someone else's Nexus is running awesome on Marshmallow, the upgrade build (the code) is not the same you're getting from Motorola for your Moto G 2015. Android elitists will always tell you to upgrade because their Nexus devices work fine but I'll tell you something, only 1.8% of users are on Marshmallow, the rest are on KitKat+Jelly Bean or staying on Lollipop. Even most devices released these days come with 5.1.1 instead of Marshmallow which have been available for 4+ months now... think and believe what you want, there're no harm in installing Marshmallow, you can always roll back to 5.1.1. Just be warned that the process is painful and by no means easy if you can't get appropriate support.
    02-06-2016 11:28 AM
  13. Crashdamage's Avatar
    Not all the devices I was referencing are Nexus, though yes, the majority are. My son in law has the Moto G Pure running 6.0 nicely.
    SD card issues, at least a majority, appear to be apps not up to speed with 6.0, not Android having bugs. My SIL has not mentioned any problems with SD. Nor with PC access. I'll ask him about it.
    I haven't noticed SOT changed. Again, I'll ask my SIL about his Moto G. Ditto the WiFi drain.
    If you do the update immediately, there's no chance of caches causing trouble. Chances are very slim anyway, but nil if a quick update is done before cache files accumulate.
    My SIL is pretty tech-savvy and made a point of telling me how much he likes 6.0. I strongly suspect that by doing the update immediately rather than after installing apps he may have missed some problems.
    02-06-2016 11:58 AM
  14. acejavelin's Avatar
    - "Screen on" time is not as good as on 5.1.1. Doze helps when the device is in "sleep" mode but in daily usage screen time takes a hit.
    FYI... the Moto G does NOT support Doze mode, it does support App Standby, but not Doze, the device does not have the required sensors for it to work properly therefore the OS cannot go into Doze mode and halt sync and app functions to a schedule.

    Somehow we just figured this out in the last week on XDA, there has been quite a discussion on it. You can see the difference in Motorola's release note too, for the Moto G there is no mention of Doze mode, for the Moto X is clearly noted.

    https://motorola-mobility-en-in.cust...il/a_id/108725

    https://motorola-mobility-en-in.cust...il/a_id/108821

    So although it works fine for most users, some of Marshmallows most sought after features, like using the SD card as internal storage and Doze Mode, do not work correctly with the Moto G.
    David Alfredo likes this.
    02-06-2016 12:12 PM
  15. frozentundra1's Avatar
    There is no phone(in the US at least) called "Moto G Pure" that I am aware of. Perhaps your SIL has the Moto X Pure, which may not pertain to this specific conversation, if that is indeed the case.
    02-06-2016 12:30 PM
  16. Crashdamage's Avatar
    There is no phone(in the US at least) called "Moto G Pure" that I am aware of. Perhaps your SIL has the Moto X Pure, which may not pertain to this specific conversation, if that is indeed the case.
    Holy Moly...you probably are be right! My most humble apologies. But, the point I was making, basically if you upgrade to 6.0 it's best to do it right away, I think is still valid regardless of the model. And I'll - awkwardly - check out of this thread. 'Scuse me...coming through...'scuse me...
    02-06-2016 12:54 PM
  17. David Alfredo's Avatar
    FYI... the Moto G does NOT support Doze mode, it does support App Standby, but not Doze, the device does not have the required sensors for it to work properly therefore the OS cannot go into Doze mode and halt sync and app functions to a schedule.

    Somehow we just figured this out in the last week on XDA, there has been quite a discussion on it. You can see the difference in Motorola's release note too, for the Moto G there is no mention of Doze mode, for the Moto X is clearly noted.

    https://motorola-mobility-en-in.cust...il/a_id/108725

    https://motorola-mobility-en-in.cust...il/a_id/108821

    So although it works fine for most users, some of Marshmallows most sought after features, like using the SD card as internal storage and Doze Mode, do not work correctly with the Moto G.
    Thanks Ace, this is some awesome info and clearly another reason to not bother upgrading to Marshmallow at all, 5.1.1 is flawless. Marshmallow upgrade takes away a lot more than it gives. This info validates my findings and experience with Marshmallow on the Moto G 2015, "Doze" didn't make a difference and that extra 1-2% in 8 hours was simply Marshmallow and Facebook not getting along and half notifications gone missing.

    Also, I don't think it's a problem with the hardware abstraction layer since a third party succeeded with the 2nd gen model, I'd guess it's just too much time/money/resources involved in the free* upgrade and so Motorola-Lenovo didn't take the cheap Moto G into account. EDIT: or as Acejavelin states, simply lack of necessary hardware in the Moto G 2015 specs.

    *Companies are a bit reluctant to spend time & money when it comes to give free things to consumers.
    02-06-2016 12:55 PM
  18. frozentundra1's Avatar
    Thanks Ace, this is some awesome info and clearly another reason to not bother upgrading to Marshmallow at all, 5.1.1 is flawless. Marshmallow upgrade takes away a lot more than it gives.

    Also, I don't think it's a problem with the hardware abstract layer since a third party succeeded with the 2nd gen model, I'd guess it's just too much time/money/resources involved in the free* upgrade and so Motorola-Lenovo didn't take the cheap Moto G into account.

    *Companies are a bit reluctant to spend time & money when it comes to give free things to consumers.
    What Marshmallow does give that I am most interested in, is some kind of update to google Now , and ability to control app permissions.

    I'm wondering about peoples opinions about these issues in particular. How much does google now improve? Does controlling app permissions work well, or almost always screw up the app function. I really hate the idea that little weather apps or offline GPS need access to all my contacts, photos, email and my dialer etc...etc. Makes me wonder if they are harvesting and selling my personal info. I would really like to control that, but not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze in practice, vs theory.
    02-06-2016 01:20 PM
  19. David Alfredo's Avatar
    What Marshmallow does give that I am most interested in, is some kind of update to google Now , and ability to control app permissions.

    I'm wondering about peoples opinions about these issues in particular. How much does google now improve? Does controlling app permissions work well, or almost always screw up the app function. I really hate the idea that little weather apps or offline GPS need access to all my contacts, photos, email and my dialer etc...etc. Makes me wonder if they are harvesting and selling my personal info. I would really like to control that, but not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze in practice, vs theory.
    About app permissions: some apps will refuse to run / will crash if certain permissions are not granted since they're "free" thanks to info they obtain from your device data whereas other apps simply need them to run as intended.

    On the other hand take a good look here
    https://motorola-mobility-en-in.cust...il/a_id/108725

    5.1.1 features removed with the upgrade are more significant compared to the "new" features in Marshmallow, Google Now on Tap is only available in English and it's a bit hit/miss (needs some work) but when it works it works pretty well, it scans the screen content and provides info based on keyword/tags found... but nothing you can do manually on 5.1.1 just by asking "Ok Google, where can I watch the movie **** / show me information about this movie".

    It's just a matter of what you're going to risk to have a couple features that does not improve 5.1.1 significantly while losing features and most probably having to deal with SD-Card bugs and head-aches among other bugs.
    02-06-2016 02:42 PM
  20. frozentundra1's Avatar
    I just noticed that I'm only getting 3G in my rural community with the Moto G. I used to get 4G with the iPhone 4s. Is this because the Moto is missing band 12? Kind of dissapointed. This is something I hadn't anticipated.
    02-06-2016 07:16 PM
  21. acejavelin's Avatar
    I just noticed that I'm only getting 3G in my rural community with the Moto G. I used to get 4G with the iPhone 4s. Is this because the Moto is missing band 12? Kind of dissapointed. This is something I hadn't anticipated.
    Did you have a carrier branded iPhone before? Is so, then this is kind of normal because your carrier was flat out lying to you and the Moto G properly reports it.

    Let me explain, AT&T and T-mobile consider HSPA/HSPA+/LTE to be 4G and report it as 4G (and sometimes 4G-LTE) when it really isn't, but the Moto G uses the correct nomenclature of 3G for HSPA and H for HSPA+, and LTE for LTE, none of which is technically 4G, but we generally consider LTE to be "real" 4G.
    02-06-2016 08:02 PM
  22. Ry's Avatar
    Did you have a carrier branded iPhone before? Is so, then this is kind of normal because your carrier was flat out lying to you and the Moto G properly reports it.

    Let me explain, AT&T and T-mobile consider HSPA/HSPA+/LTE to be 4G and report it as 4G (and sometimes 4G-LTE) when it really isn't, but the Moto G uses the correct nomenclature of 3G for HSPA and H for HSPA+, and LTE for LTE, none of which is technically 4G, but we generally consider LTE to be "real" 4G.
    Aka fauxG.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    acejavelin likes this.
    02-06-2016 08:06 PM
  23. Ry's Avatar
    I just noticed that I'm only getting 3G in my rural community with the Moto G. I used to get 4G with the iPhone 4s. Is this because the Moto is missing band 12? Kind of dissapointed. This is something I hadn't anticipated.
    Are you on T-Mobile?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    02-06-2016 08:07 PM
  24. frozentundra1's Avatar
    Did you have a carrier branded iPhone before? Is so, then this is kind of normal because your carrier was flat out lying to you and the Moto G properly reports it.

    Let me explain, AT&T and T-mobile consider HSPA/HSPA+/LTE to be 4G and report it as 4G (and sometimes 4G-LTE) when it really isn't, but the Moto G uses the correct nomenclature of 3G for HSPA and H for HSPA+, and LTE for LTE, none of which is technically 4G, but we generally consider LTE to be "real" 4G.
    Thank you very much for the clarification. I have never been very into technology stuff and apparently just take things like that for granted.

    It's amazing how much I've learned about the strange new world of hardware, software, operating systems, industries built around data collection, and more, just from trying to research, buy and use a new phone. I guess I've been living with my head in the sand for quite a long time now.

    Are you on T-Mobile?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    No, I am using the at&t go phone service. They are the only carrier that seems to get any signal in my out-of-the-way backwoods area.

    Rant mode: ON

    I kind of hate the company(not that I have particular reason to believe their competitors are any better). I've had MANY strange service and account issues, some of which have never been completely resolved. Used to have to drive 125 miles round trip just to pay my bill. My Auto Pay used to malfunction every month. I'd lose service, try to pay over the phone, card would decline(any card I, my friends or family had), then I would drive all the way to the kiosk in the nearest big(ish) city and the same cards would work every single time. Months of this. On top of this, various landlines and non-at&t incoming callers would often receive an "account not in service" error message when trying to contact me. I could always call them though. It just so happened that my doctor, dentist and lawyer's office were all landlines that couldn't connect. Over a year of this. Mostly better now, no thanks to the million hours of talking to at&t employees, but every once and a while somebody still won't be able to get through to my account. I spent a ton of money and time battling these problems.

    Rant over.
    02-06-2016 09:02 PM
  25. dpham00's Avatar
    Thank you very much for the clarification. I have never been very into technology stuff and apparently just take things like that for granted.

    It's amazing how much I've learned about the strange new world of hardware, software, operating systems, industries built around data collection, and more, just from trying to research, buy and use a new phone. I guess I've been living with my head in the sand for quite a long time now.



    No, I am using the at&t go phone service. They are the only carrier that seems to get any signal in my out-of-the-way backwoods area.

    Rant mode: ON

    I kind of hate the company(not that I have particular reason to believe their competitors are any better). I've had MANY strange service and account issues, some of which have never been completely resolved. Used to have to drive 125 miles round trip just to pay my bill. My Auto Pay used to malfunction every month. I'd lose service, try to pay over the phone, card would decline(any card I, my friends or family had), then I would drive all the way to the kiosk in the nearest big(ish) city and the same cards would work every single time. Months of this. On top of this, various landlines and non-at&t incoming callers would often receive an "account not in service" error message when trying to contact me. I could always call them though. It just so happened that my doctor, dentist and lawyer's office were all landlines that couldn't connect. Over a year of this. Mostly better now, no thanks to the million hours of talking to at&t employees, but every once and a while somebody still won't be able to get through to my account. I spent a ton of money and time battling these problems.

    Rant over.
    Sorry to hear that. I am on Verizon, and my experience has been that anything but the most basic problems would be difficult for regular csr to fix. You can ask to talk to a supervisor or if that doesn't work, escalate to executive relations. Also, you can file complaints with the bbb and state ag. I find that executive relations and bbb/state ag will give you much more helpful and responsive service.
    02-06-2016 09:10 PM
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