10-08-2013 07:52 PM
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  1. jrsharp70's Avatar
    I read this morning the Motorola announcement that the x phone is not only real, but to be assembled in the USA.

    Call me crazy, but this matters way more than any news that's been posted on A/C so far...

    With the state of US production, manufacturing, education, math and science environment, and economy... this is HUGE news.

    Not so much that the actual monetary sales or personnel numbers will matter that much... but the example it sets could be enormous. Tax policy, public perception of American products, changes in supply line paradigms; all of these things matter.

    On top of that, China makes HUGE gains due to our tech obsession (guilty), a country that is way, way more weird and dubious than most people know (or want to accept).

    Chinese companies don't know how to innovate. The whole society functions on copying and streamlining others (it's a cultural/educational thing)... and now you see the results with companies like Huawei and Oppo and Foxconn taking the designs of others and circumvention a decade of research to eat up market share.

    The fact that this news gets so little consideration from A/C just goes to show how numb we've become to the problem, and it is sad.

    Posted via Android Central App
    ffejjj, lkbig, jdbii and 5 others like this.
    05-30-2013 03:52 PM
  2. Ryandroid86's Avatar
    couldnt agree more. Its time for china, and south korea to buy from us. It time to make a change in this country and its a beautiful sight to see a company not affraid to do it here at the cost of paying workers more money. This alone makes me want to buy one
    05-30-2013 04:00 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    That's in the ac article from yesterday

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Ry likes this.
    05-30-2013 04:55 PM
  4. Ry's Avatar
    That's in the ac article from yesterday

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Yup.
    05-30-2013 05:36 PM
  5. rbess1965's Avatar
    You do realize that Flextronics will be doing the manufacturing for Motorola right? That company is based in Taiwan with ties all around the globe. http://www.flextronics.com/global_lo...s/Default.aspx
    Don't get me wrong, they will be creating jobs on US soil but to say that China doesn't innovate is pushing it just a bit. I agree they do copy too much and all the parts will still be coming from Asia but I share the posters hopes that this will help shift some manufacturing back here.

    Sent using Tapatalk 4 on the amazing RAZR MaxxHD.
    jdbii likes this.
    05-30-2013 06:10 PM
  6. Motoxforum's Avatar
    Flextronics will only be doing the manufacturing for international sales. Domestic models will be made in the U.S.
    05-30-2013 07:11 PM
  7. planoman's Avatar
    They said 2000 of my Homies in Fort Worth, Texas will make this phone. Do I need one? Nope. Will I buy it to support my State and Country? Hell yes! Take that to the bank!
    Nice work Google and Moto!
    05-30-2013 09:24 PM
  8. jrsharp70's Avatar
    You do realize that Flextronics will be doing the manufacturing for Motorola right? That company is based in Taiwan with ties all around the globe. http://www.flextronics.com/global_lo...s/Default.aspx
    Don't get me wrong, they will be creating jobs on US soil but to say that China doesn't innovate is pushing it just a bit. I agree they do copy too much and all the parts will still be coming from Asia but I share the posters hopes that this will help shift some manufacturing back here.

    Sent using Tapatalk 4 on the amazing RAZR MaxxHD.
    China... doesn't... innovate.

    I worked with Chinese companies. I know a lot of Chinese immigrants. They don't think the same. In some ways it is good, because they are basically learning machines, and they do a great job of streamlining and making things work with the materials at hand.

    But they do not innovate. They don't know how to think from new angles. Samsung had to bring in westerners to teach their people how to think of ways to solve problems (I'll find the article, it's good). And the Koreans are still way ahead of the Chinese.

    They stole an airplane design from the 1970s from us, and still can't make it fly because there are only 5 companies worldwide that can make the engines to fly it, and they haven't been able to steal the designs yet.

    But give them the designs... like Apple and Samsung and everyone else... and you get devices like the Oppo, which are quite stunning.

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-30-2013 09:31 PM
  9. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    China... doesn't... innovate.

    I worked with Chinese companies. I know a lot of Chinese immigrants. They don't think the same. In some ways it is good, because they are basically learning machines, and they do a great job of streamlining and making things work with the materials at hand.

    But they do not innovate. They don't know how to think from new angles. Samsung had to bring in westerners to teach their people how to think of ways to solve problems (I'll find the article, it's good). And the Koreans are still way ahead of the Chinese.

    They stole an airplane design from the 1970s from us, and still can't make it fly because there are only 5 companies worldwide that can make the engines to fly it, and they haven't been able to steal the designs yet.

    But give them the designs... like Apple and Samsung and everyone else... and you get devices like the Oppo, which are quite stunning.

    Posted via Android Central App
    THEM GAWD DAM CHINESE. ER'BODY KNOWS THEM CHINESE ARE LIKE THAT. CAIN'T TRUST THEM NONE.

    Dude. Xenophobia is treatable. See a therapist.
    Ry, Aquila, Rizz1-2 and 4 others like this.
    05-30-2013 09:38 PM
  10. jrsharp70's Avatar
    THEM GAWD DAM CHINESE. ER'BODY KNOWS THEM CHINESE ARE LIKE THAT. CAIN'T TRUST THEM NONE.

    Dude. Xenophobia is treatable. See a therapist.
    I'm not xenophobic. And I've not said anything redneck or crazy... and I've never once used the phrase "they took er jerbs!"

    I did go a little far in expressing uncomfortable things, and I appreciate you pointing it out. This isn't the place for that discussion. And you are a moderator... so you win by default.

    Don't underestimate the importance of this announcement in your coverage. I may be wearing a tin foil hat... but you should be rooting for Motorola and Apple's efforts to show that building electronics in the US is feasible.

    (I won't fill the page with links to support my assertions, for the sake of closing this part of the discussion).

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-30-2013 10:00 PM
  11. vasekvi's Avatar
    This is one of the reasons I will within the next couple years be buying a Tesla. This is American innovation at its finest.


    Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk II
    05-30-2013 10:06 PM
  12. jrsharp70's Avatar
    This is one of the reasons I will within the next couple years be buying a Tesla. This is American innovation at its finest.


    Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk II
    My girlfriend wants a Tesla so bad... it's almost as bad as my tech obsession!

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-30-2013 10:10 PM
  13. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    And you are a moderator... so you win by default.

    Don't underestimate the importance of this announcement in your coverage. I may be wearing a tin foil hat... but you should be rooting for Motorola and Apple's efforts to show that building electronics in the US is feasible.

    (I won't fill the page with links to support my assertions, for the sake of closing this part of the discussion).

    Posted via Android Central App
    The bolded part is absolutely false I'm not that kind of moderator.

    So convince me about the second part. I have personal (yes, anecdotes -- we all have them) experience that tells me otherwise. Feel free link the hell out of me.

    I'm not above learning something new every day
    planoman and Jennifer Stough like this.
    05-30-2013 10:12 PM
  14. jrsharp70's Avatar
    The bolded part is absolutely false I'm not that kind of moderator.

    So convince me about the second part. I have personal (yes, anecdotes -- we all have them) experience that tells me otherwise. Feel free link the hell out of me.

    I'm not above learning something new every day
    That's why your my favorite contributor to the site... I'd be happy to, but I'll start a thread in another category or carry it on via private messages, since this is a place to talk about our hobby, not world issues.

    I'm also really supposed to be doing something else right now! I'll post a few food for thought things though.

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-30-2013 10:31 PM
  15. jrsharp70's Avatar
    Posted in graveyard

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-30-2013 10:57 PM
  16. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I find this interesting because one of my friends is Korean and I've had conversations about this with him before and he happens to agree with much of what jrsharp70 has said.
    I think in certain industries jrsharp70 does have a very strong point. I don't think it's fair to call him xenophobic because there is very clear evidence right before your eyes that some nations have a cultural mindset when it comes to business of taking existing western products and mimicking them rather than pumping out their own. Looking over at Korea instead of China you can see the obvious copying that Samsung committed in the smartphone sector in earlier years. However nobody is going to argue that Samsung TV's are ripoffs. The automotive industry has had a LOT of copying committed over there, except this time it was Japanese automakers Honda and Toyota being copied from by the likes of Hyundai. If you take a look at the video game sector, ask any MMO gamers around here about that. The number of World of Warcraft clones that have come out of that area is like an endless river.
    TheLibertarian likes this.
    05-31-2013 08:42 AM
  17. jrsharp70's Avatar
    I find this interesting because one of my friends is Korean and I've had conversations about this with him before and he happens to agree with much of what jrsharp70 has said.
    I think in certain industries jrsharp70 does have a very strong point. I don't think it's fair to call him xenophobic because there is very clear evidence right before your eyes that some nations have a cultural mindset when it comes to business of taking existing western products and mimicking them rather than pumping out their own. Looking over at Korea instead of China you can see the obvious copying that Samsung committed in the smartphone sector in earlier years. However nobody is going to argue that Samsung TV's are ripoffs. The automotive industry has had a LOT of copying committed over there, except this time it was Japanese automakers Honda and Toyota being copied from by the likes of Hyundai. If you take a look at the video game sector, ask any MMO gamers around here about that. The number of World of Warcraft clones that have come out of that area is like an endless river.
    What you are talking about is copyright, or intellectual property "IP", which is due to the Chinese' different concept of "idea ownership".

    In general, my point is that growing up, they are taught heavily on facts and process. That is to say that their knowledge base is greater, as is their math and science knowledge. That is to say that, if they read a story about "Jack and Jill", they can tell you the entire story from memory, but if you asked them why it might be that Jill followed Jack down the hill, or what might happen if Jill had fallen down first, they would have a hard time coming up with possible answers.

    That's a pretty simplistic and broad example, but it applies. They get a piece of technology, and they watch someone else build it, and they build a perfect replica...maybe even slightly better. But if you told them that now it needs to be smaller and flexible... without someone to show them the tech necessary to make that happen, they don't really know how to branch out their thinking process.

    But make no mistake... this is a cultural thing, and soon it won't be like this. Once they have an infrastructure and laws that protect new ideas (which they are implementing as we speak), they will jump ahead on innovation too. And the US will be left even further behind.

    Oh yeah, and as a whole, the citizenry manage money extremely well. Another reason that they are destined to become the dominant world financial power.

    Posted via Android Central App
    osubeavs728 and jdbii like this.
    05-31-2013 02:53 PM
  18. jrsharp70's Avatar
    "Lenyashins role was to retrain engineers who had previously been followers, replicators of other peoples technologies, into more powerful conceptualizers and problem solvers. And that change had to be pervasive enough to create a new culture at the company."

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnsha...rowth-company/

    Posted via Android Central App
    TheLibertarian and ludesleep like this.
    05-31-2013 03:08 PM
  19. Ry's Avatar
    I asked the question after the Nexus Q was announced. Glad to see Motorola and Google stepping up.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    06-02-2013 02:38 PM
  20. mountainman's Avatar
    I agree with the OP. Made in the U.S.A just does not matter to most people anymore. Look at the underside of most anything you buy - Made in China.

    And no wonder we buy Korean and Japanese cars now - the American cars were aweful in the 80's. Some people have just moved on.......

    But in reality, I think the reason that it is not getting that much coverage, is because there is not that much information yet.
    jnrbshp likes this.
    06-07-2013 11:06 AM
  21. jdbii's Avatar
    Copying is the highest form of flattery. The Romans copied from the Greeks; the US copied the industrial revolution know how from the British; the Germans and Japanese copied American cars, etc., etc,., etc. The US led in technology expertise since WWII, but eventually the copiers make the jump and start to innovate on their own. China was late to game but the amount of money they pour into R&D dwarfs that of the US. I wouldn't be surprised if China's R&D funding exceeded that of the rest of the world combined. Eventually it is going to pay off big time for China and the US will be copying from them. As to the importance of the Moto X being assembled in Texas, even though parts will be assembled overseas, I think is great and will be a huge selling point. So long as it can go toe to toe with the big boys many people will be interested in buying a US made phone. Whether or not Motorola and Google can do it profitably is yet to be seen since manufacturing and labor expenses are so much lower in many Asian countries. Bottom line is that customers will still buy the phone on its merits. If the phone isn't as good as Sumsung's, or HTC's, or anybody elses, then it won't be a success.
    06-07-2013 01:53 PM
  22. jrsharp70's Avatar
    bottom line is that customers will still buy the phone on its merits. If the phone isn't as good as Sumsung's, or HTC's, or anybody elses, then it won't be a success.
    That's what worries me. I'm afraid that the tax code and price of labor (or lack of skilled labor) will hut the device and leave a negative reaction. This goes the same for the new iMac that apple said it would build in the USA.

    In medical research (biology, biotechnology) which is what I used to do, the US has so many foreigners, and it isn't a bad thing, per se, but it is interesting. The Chinese employees are called "sea turtles", because they migrate far away, stay for a while, and then come home to (for lack of a better word) spawn... ie, build a life.

    We get cheap (relatively) research labor, which we don't have the manpower to do without them (there aren't enough Americans to do it, not by a long shot), and they get to go home with a wealth of procedural and technical knowledge.

    If it is that way with biotechnology, I don't see any reason it'll be different with cell phones.
    06-07-2013 05:01 PM
  23. jdbii's Avatar
    That's what worries me. I'm afraid that the tax code and price of labor (or lack of skilled labor) will hut the device and leave a negative reaction. This goes the same for the new iMac that apple said it would build in the USA.
    I don't know how this is ever going to be resolved. Labor, overhead, taxes, and expenses can be 10x, 20x, or even 30x higher in developed nations compared to the most poverty stricken nations.

    We get cheap (relatively) research labor, which we don't have the manpower to do without them (there aren't enough Americans to do it, not by a long shot), and they get to go home with a wealth of procedural and technical knowledge.
    This might not win me many friends, but the United States (or any country for that matter) should be doing all it can to laying out the welcome mat for the researchers, tech students and scientists who come to work and study in America, and encouraging them to stay and make the Unitied States their home rather than go back their country of origin. For one, I think they should be granted expedited visas and citizenship. One advantage that the Unites States has over most countries, and certainly China, is that anybody can become an American whereas in other countries they don't have the same creed of a melting pot.
    Aquila, Ry and Ali Fazel like this.
    06-07-2013 05:22 PM
  24. jrsharp70's Avatar
    I don't know how this is ever going to be resolved. Labor, overhead, taxes, and expenses can be 10x, 20x, or even 30x higher in developed nations compared to the most poverty stricken nations.



    This might not win me many friends, but the United States (or any country for that matter) should be doing all it can to laying out the welcome mat for the researchers, tech students and scientists who come to work and study in America, and encouraging them to stay and make the Unitied States their home rather than go back their country of origin. For one, I think they should be granted expedited visas and citizenship. One advantage that the Unites States has over most countries, and certainly China, is that anybody can become an American whereas in other countries they don't have the same creed of a melting pot.
    They do. You have to apply as an "immigrant of extraordinary ability" or something to that tune. I've helped some of my Chinese friends write their letters.

    And many do stay, but you have to understand that the US us very different than what they are used to. They live in huge crowded cities and imagine that the US is New York. Then they get to... Most everywhere (I mean, think about how many major universities are in small towns)... And the culture shock is hard.

    But many do stay, and I'm all about it.

    As far as cheap labor elsewhere, I genuinely believe that there exists a will amongst Americans to consider a reasonable markup for items of equal quality, made here. I don't know what that percentage is, or if the quality will be there... But I foolishly believe it is possible.

    Posted via Android Central App
    ludesleep and jdbii like this.
    06-07-2013 09:53 PM
  25. mount.zed's Avatar
    I think that might be changing and people might start paying a little more for made in North America. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options for us. I buy Canadian or US if I can, but sadly I don't have this option available to me most of the time. I have to applaud Moto and Google for taking this path.

    I agree with the OP. Made in the U.S.A just does not matter to most people anymore. Look at the underside of most anything you buy - Made in China.

    And no wonder we buy Korean and Japanese cars now - the American cars were aweful in the 80's. Some people have just moved on.......

    But in reality, I think the reason that it is not getting that much coverage, is because there is not that much information yet.
    Aquila likes this.
    06-08-2013 09:23 PM
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