08-10-2013 12:44 AM
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  1. mech1164's Avatar
    What are you talking about? People don't hate Apple's iPhones because they are smooth.

    People hate them because they are extremely restricted in their capabilities, and Apple refuses to admit that they can ever make anything that is not ideal for their customers, shown in their refusal to allow alternate keyboards and the like.

    Motorola is not restricting the capabilities of these phones or sacrificing anything other than a couple of numbers on a sheet of paper. Why does it matter so much that they chose to give their users better battery life at the cost of something that adds virtually nothing such as the jump from 2 to 4 processors. They spent the time and resources to create the low energy processors which will add much more to the phones capabilities than the two additional CPU cores will for many years.
    Ok a couple of things. I never said that people hate Apple because their system is smooth.

    What I was getting at was we see them using parts that are not as top board. Like that the cpu is dual core when we are used quads.

    Up until recently they have nailed that experience. I applaud them for that. One if the gripes about Android is that same experience not being in the os.

    Motorola took the right step in optimizing the os with the low power dsp's. That was needed and welcome. Where I take issue is with them using a cpu that is suspect because of it's architecture. If they had just done everything that we have already and used a top draw cpu like the S600. I could understand the the top shelf price.

    They didn't and it has left a bad taste in many people's mouths. That we are being suckered.

    I'll give them a chance but they are on a tight lease. If this thing isn't spectacular then they failed before they eve got out the gate.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    08-03-2013 09:33 PM
  2. osubeavs728's Avatar
    If they had just done everything that we have already and used a top draw cpu like the S600. I could understand the the top shelf price.
    It is essentially an s600...just a dual core... The s600 uses 4 krait 300 cores and a 320 gpu to handle all the phones tasks. while the X uses 2 krait 300s and the 320 gpu for apps and the two additional processors for most of the other stuff... I see no bamboozling here
    08-03-2013 09:48 PM
  3. mech1164's Avatar
    It is essentially an s600...just a dual core... The s600 uses 4 krait 300 cores and a 320 gpu to handle all the phones tasks. while the X uses 2 krait 300s and the 320 gpu for apps and the two additional processors for most of the other stuff... I see no bamboozling here
    In the end you are probably more right than most of what has been discussed. What has not been done though is having Motorola communicate this properly. What most people have heard is it is last year's dual core processor and not current.

    It may just the noise that has accompanied the event. I'll wait to see how this works in the real world.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    08-03-2013 09:58 PM
  4. osubeavs728's Avatar
    In the end you are probably more right than most of what has been discussed. What has not been done though is having Motorola communicate this properly. What most people have heard is it is last year's dual core processor and not current.

    It may just the noise that has accompanied the event. I'll wait to see how this works in the real world.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Oh there's no doubt that it probably could have been cleared up a little better. Moto was concerned with marketing buzz words, and the community was concerned with causing white noise. There will always be details lost and miscommunication in these types of situations
    08-04-2013 12:52 AM
  5. spawndoodling's Avatar
    1) How are you of the opinion that a 4.7" is too small for a display? You said a majority of Android flagship feature a larger display... Name them. Galaxy S4, Xperia Z (I believe), and... What else? Note II? Niche product. Galaxy Mega? Niche product. HTC One? 4.7".

    2) You cannot tell the differences in pixels between 1080 and 720 displays. Known fact, and Motorola knows that well. They opted for a lower resolution display for the power savings, not for cost.

    The phone is designed to be an ever present assistant by always listening and lasting all day. THAT is the purpose of this device: to be there for its user when called upon.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I'm absolutely not suggesting that 4.7 inches is too small for a display. I'm merely suggesting that when it comes to the one spec that consumers are almost universally aware of - screen size and screen resolution - the Moto X loses out. The GS4 has the clear advantage and will certainly be hard to pass up for buyers big on screen size. And regarding screen resolution, I agree with you - the differences are minimal between 720p and 1020p, but we live in the HD age, where buyers believe 1020p is superior in almost every way to 720p. A majority of consumers are going to feel like they're buying an inferior product when compared to the "1020p AMOLED 5 inch" GS4 and the "Retina" iPhone. Again, I'm certainly not suggesting the Motorola X is actually inferior. I'm merely saying that from a marketing and business perspective, they are going to lose a lot of non-tech savvy customers who are out to buy the 'latest and greatest.' Without these specs or even marketable labels (eg "Super HD") for otherwise identical or inferior specifications, they're risking a good amount of business.

    As for the Always On feature, I was certainly enticed by this feature - as were others. Even the non-tech media was cheering on the notion of an "ever present assistant." But instead of making this the Great Moto X draw, as Siri was on the iPhone and as Camera features were on the GS3, Motorola decided to inject this feature into 3 other Droid phones at launch. Sure, I don't lose anything - I still get am awesome feature on an awesome phone regardless of wherever else it exists - but again, from a marketing and business perspective, it dilutes the ability of Motorola to promote the X as the 'must have' device. It would kind of be like Apple launching Siri on the iPhone and the iPod Touch concurrently, or Samsung making all of its Camera features and gestures available on its million different phones at once. I'm not saying that these things have to remain exclusives into the distant future, just that keeping them exclusive to one product at launch helps sell a phone.

    Perhaps I am simply taking the Moto X out of context. Based on the manner in which Google and Microsoft have approached the X, you would've thought that they intended this phone to compete alongside the Galaxy S4's and HTC One's of the world, a true volume seller with amazing potential to become Android's best selling phone. Instead, you see Motorola AGAIN making good phones that miss the mark on marketing and advertising.

    And you may be saying so what, why do we care? It's because the very survival of Android depends on a competitive framework in which Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Sony, and whoever
    make phones that the masses want so developers will prioritize Android, so awesome social features like Hangouts and Play Games will be embraced by millions of people, and so we can get the best price points and the best features without having to compromise anything. I'm baffled as to how Motorola has missed that memo.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    08-04-2013 06:56 PM
  6. Farish's Avatar
    I'm absolutely not suggesting that 4.7 inches is too small for a display. I'm merely suggesting that when it comes to the one spec that consumers are almost universally aware of - screen size and screen resolution -

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    I am willing bet that there are many consumers who don't even know what does 1080p or 720p or what the difference is. They may assume 1080p is better because the number is bigger.

    As long as the sales rep explains that the 720p screen was chosen to give a much better battery life/experience, the consumer will probably understand nor care about 1080p at that point anyways.

    To the average consumer these are just a bunch of meaningless numbers versus price.
    08-05-2013 12:49 AM
  7. dpham00's Avatar
    I am willing bet that there are many consumers who don't even know what does 1080p or 720p or what the difference is. They may assume 1080p is better because the number is bigger.

    As long as the sales rep explains that the 720p screen was chosen to give a much better battery life/experience, the consumer will probably understand nor care about 1080p at that point anyways.

    To the average consumer these are just a bunch of meaningless numbers versus price.
    Most people won't even care about 720 or 1080,so long as it looks good to them and this is who moto is targeting . Hell, the iPhone doesn't even have an HD display, and that hasn't stopped it from selling well (not that it needs it either). To the point, if you asked 100 random iPhone owners what the resolution is on their screen, my guess would be that the vast majority would not know.

    To elaborate , 720p is simply the resolution. It will depend on the screen size for the pixel density. But even that isn't everything.

    My note 2 has a better display, imo than my s3,both are 720p,and the note 2 has a much lower PPI. The Note II is rgb( same as x), s3 is pentile.



    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II
    08-05-2013 01:51 AM
  8. shaytoon21's Avatar
    Im reading all these threads bashing moto x and how it is such a huge let down as far as specs and availability. I understand the frustration, I am one of those people, but to really bash the heck out of this thing thats supposed to save motorola is really jumping the gun and people seem to have been clouded by seeing the real, bigger picture. Its called the future.

    Moto X is the BEGINNING of whats to come. You dont think google really wants to pummel apple? You think google is going to go balls out right away? No. Its business strategy, its what will be keeping everyone on their toes. Moto X will be paving the way for the greatest phones we are expected to see within the next 6-12months (dont tell me theyre that stupid to not use similar specs from the new droid series. Its all part of the plan). Im convinced that motorola will bust out with another phone by Fall/Winter to actually compete with the new iphone, along with the possible announcement of a new anroid os. I dont want to say 5.0 as they could still jump to 4.5 or whatever (ie: 4.0 = ICS, 4.1 = JB). I think this was all intentionally planned to see the public reaction. Targeted for those "regular" people who dont know anything about specs and what not, the regular consumer, that just wants to buy it because its new and shiny.

    Mock my words people. Greatness awaits. (yes, i stole the ps4 slogan)
    08-05-2013 01:02 PM
  9. gollum18's Avatar
    Im reading all these threads bashing moto x and how it is such a huge let down as far as specs and availability. I understand the frustration, I am one of those people, but to really bash the heck out of this thing thats supposed to save motorola is really jumping the gun and people seem to have been clouded by seeing the real, bigger picture. Its called the future.

    Moto X is the BEGINNING of whats to come. You dont think google really wants to pummel apple? You think google is going to go balls out right away? No. Its business strategy, its what will be keeping everyone on their toes. Moto X will be paving the way for the greatest phones we are expected to see within the next 6-12months (dont tell me theyre that stupid to not use similar specs from the new droid series. Its all part of the plan). Im convinced that motorola will bust out with another phone by Fall/Winter to actually compete with the new iphone, along with the possible announcement of a new anroid os. I dont want to say 5.0 as they could still jump to 4.5 or whatever (ie: 4.0 = ICS, 4.1 = JB). I think this was all intentionally planned to see the public reaction. Targeted for those "regular" people who dont know anything about specs and what not, the regular consumer, that just wants to buy it because its new and shiny.

    Mock my words people. Greatness awaits. (yes, i stole the ps4 slogan)
    You should see all the threads on windows phone central bashing the moto x. They compare it to the lumia 720.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    08-05-2013 01:08 PM
  10. thegrants82's Avatar
    ummmm, doubt it.
    08-05-2013 02:37 PM
  11. ultravisitor's Avatar
    You should see all the threads on windows phone central bashing the moto x. They compare it to the lumia 720.
    LOL
    08-05-2013 03:08 PM
  12. mech1164's Avatar
    Well one thing is for sure, there are plenty of clueless cell phone buyers that wouldn't know 720p from a removable battery. Give them something shiny and new and they will flock to it. Moto has a good product. I still might get one eventually. But pricing it at GS4 and HTC One pricing is still a mistake IMHO. I might be totally wrong we will have to see. I still say it should have been cheaper.At least my Gnex has had new life breathed into it by putting on 4.3. So I might just wait for Moto X 2 in 6 months.
    08-05-2013 09:26 PM
  13. spawndoodling's Avatar
    I am willing bet that there are many consumers who don't even know what does 1080p or 720p or what the difference is. They may assume 1080p is better because the number is bigger.

    As long as the sales rep explains that the 720p screen was chosen to give a much better battery life/experience, the consumer will probably understand nor care about 1080p at that point anyways.

    To the average consumer these are just a bunch of meaningless numbers versus price.
    I agree with you re: 1020p vs 720p (heck, my mother couldnt even tell the difference between SD and HD for the longest time). Just for clarification, though, when I said aware I didn't mean knowledgeable or informed. The vast majority of consumers can't tell the difference until these devices are side by side - and even then, as has been evident with the GS4 and HTC One - the differences are subtle and often indescribable.

    That being said, not digging sales reps, but I doubt many are going to be able to convince consumers with the argument that Moto sacrificed screen resolution for battery life. In fact, I would even contend that most won't point out that footnote, instead going straight to the shallow specs list and claiming that the GS4's AMOLED 1080P screen is superior - and the battery is removable so you can get an extended battery if need be or swap out batteries if battery life is really a concern. Again, I'm not suggesting that any of this stuff is necessarily true, merely that if Motorola is depending on thousands of sales reps to tell consumers that the Moto X's short comings on a spec sheet do not translate into poorer performance than the widely successful and universally recognizable GS4, they're not going to get the sales they desire.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    08-05-2013 09:43 PM
  14. dpham00's Avatar
    I agree with you re: 1020p vs 720p (heck, my mother couldnt even tell the difference between SD and HD for the longest time). Just for clarification, though, when I said aware I didn't mean knowledgeable or informed. The vast majority of consumers can't tell the difference until these devices are side by side - and even then, as has been evident with the GS4 and HTC One - the differences are subtle and often indescribable.

    That being said, not digging sales reps, but I doubt many are going to be able to convince consumers with the argument that Moto sacrificed screen resolution for battery life. In fact, I would even contend that most won't point out that footnote, instead going straight to the shallow specs list and claiming that the GS4's AMOLED 1080P screen is superior - and the battery is removable so you can get an extended battery if need be or swap out batteries if battery life is really a concern. Again, I'm not suggesting that any of this stuff is necessarily true, merely that if Motorola is depending on thousands of sales reps to tell consumers that the Moto X's short comings on a spec sheet do not translate into poorer performance than the widely successful and universally recognizable GS4, they're not going to get the sales they desire.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    it will also depend on carrier subsidy. Let's say Carriers subsidize the iPhone by about $400-450. Let's say Carrier subsidy for the s4/one is $300,now if Motorola can reduce the carrier subsidy to say $250, then carriers may be willing to push the Moto X over the one/s4,just like how carriers push android over iPhone.

    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II
    08-05-2013 11:15 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    it will also depend on carrier subsidy. Let's say Carriers subsidize the iPhone by about $400-450. Let's say Carrier subsidy for the s4/one is $300,now if Motorola can reduce the carrier subsidy to say $250, then carriers may be willing to push the Moto X over the one/s4,just like how carriers push android over iPhone.

    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II
    It seems like you're suggesting that Verizon, and perhaps some other carriers, have less care for the philosophical relevance, or integrity of their arguments, than for the profits they realize from making one decision over another....
    dpham00 likes this.
    08-06-2013 12:54 AM
  16. xoomer1's Avatar
    now we know why mototola is investing so much money (like 500 million dollars) in advertising the X ...they have to downplay the specs and get you to think they don't matter..some people have taken the bait... me personally I got the S4 last week after seeing the specs on the X... I wont get another underpowered moto phone only to have them release another one with a HD or a maxx tacked onto the end of it in 3 months
    08-06-2013 02:12 AM
  17. dpham00's Avatar
    It seems like you're suggesting that Verizon, and perhaps some other carriers, have less care for the philosophical relevance, or integrity of their arguments, than for the profits they realize from making one decision over another....

    I have seen it happen with my very own eyes. Customer comes in wanting to buy the free iPhone. Sales rep pulls every trick in the book to get customer to get a low end android. I love android and all, but I would not recommend low end crap android over iPhone 4. Now, if this was when the dna was free on contract, then that is a different story, but something tells me the salesmen weren't pushing that deal...

    Actually Verizon attempts to mask decisions that benefit them (pretty much all recent changes), and claims that somehow it is for our own good.

    Like when they got rid of one year contracts (i paid just $30 more for my Tbolt for a one year contract over a 2 year contract price). They said that they were getting rid of it because no one was using it, that people prefer 2 year contract. Yet now, they want to give people the EDGE so that they can upgrade more often, but you can't use your subsidy. It would have made more sense to just reinstate one year contracts, though edge is much more profitable for them.

    They also ended unlimited data plan, with the replacement plan being 2gb, which costs more than unlimited data (granted only by a penny), claiming that the vast majority of consumers don't use over 2gb. I also don't get corporate discount I'd I switched to 2gb . that, and I have used more than 2gb in an hour.

    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II
    Aquila likes this.
    08-06-2013 02:16 AM
  18. ultravisitor's Avatar
    I wont get another underpowered moto phone only to have them release another one with a HD or a maxx tacked onto the end of it in 3 months
    What phone did Motorola release on Verizon after the RAZR HD, RAZR MAXX HD, and RAZR M were announced? And how long did it take for Motorola to release that phone after that trio was released?
    08-06-2013 02:21 AM
  19. osubeavs728's Avatar
    now we know why mototola is investing so much money (like 500 million dollars) in advertising the X ...they have to downplay the specs and get you to think they don't matter..some people have taken the bait... me personally I got the S4 last week after seeing the specs on the X... I wont get another underpowered moto phone only to have them release another one with a HD or a maxx tacked onto the end of it in 3 months
    You can't call out the moto X for being "under powered" when the s4 has issues of its own being smooth with its almighty quad core processor...
    08-06-2013 08:13 AM
  20. mattopotamus's Avatar
    now we know why mototola is investing so much money (like 500 million dollars) in advertising the X ...they have to downplay the specs and get you to think they don't matter..some people have taken the bait... me personally I got the S4 last week after seeing the specs on the X... I wont get another underpowered moto phone only to have them release another one with a HD or a maxx tacked onto the end of it in 3 months
    Yet in real world usage it is proving that specs do not matter. It is running every bit as smooth as the s4 and HTC One. Marketing will be the biggest deciding factor on how this phone sells. Personally, I think it is going to have great sales.
    08-06-2013 08:51 AM
  21. spawndoodling's Avatar
    Yet in real world usage it is proving that specs do not matter. It is running every bit as smooth as the s4 and HTC One. Marketing will be the biggest deciding factor on how this phone sells. Personally, I think it is going to have great sales.
    I just can't find credibility in that argument. Early reviews are coming in and reviewers are saying the exact same things that everyone and their mothers has been saying for weeks: It's a mid-range phone at a high-end price; it's hard to justify purchasing something that should be much cheaper; its screen is acceptable but not the best for its price; Moto Maker shouldve been available for more carriers at launch.

    Sure, these are just tech reviews a lot of people won't even read. But the truth is, we live in a polarized market, dominated by two phones - the iPhone and the GS4. Whether you like it or not, for the vast majority of consumers, they're not even coming in the store considering another option. They've seen the HTC One and like it, but fear not being in the same caliber of their friends and family if they don't stick with Apple or Samsung. They love the set-up of Windows Phone but wouldn't dare consider it although it may actually suit their needs better.

    That's why I think Motorola seriously dropped the ball on this. I remember when the HTC One came out, there was a similar euphoria on these forums, a similar feeling of optimism. All I'm hearing these days are doom and gloom at the slight mention of HTC - despite the fact that they released a wonderful phone. I'm not doubting the Moto X is awesome, I would certainly consider it if I didn't care about external storage, merely saying that Motorola is losing serious points by not coming to the table with something that beats all of the other high-end smartphones on the market raw specs wise - AND introduces features like the Moto Maker to all potential buyers at launch.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using AC Forums mobile app
    08-06-2013 05:18 PM
  22. mattopotamus's Avatar
    I just can't find credibility in that argument. Early reviews are coming in and reviewers are saying the exact same things that everyone and their mothers has been saying for weeks: It's a mid-range phone at a high-end price; it's hard to justify purchasing something that should be much cheaper; its screen is acceptable but not the best for its price; Moto Maker shouldve been available for more carriers at launch.

    Sure, these are just tech reviews a lot of people won't even read. But the truth is, we live in a polarized market, dominated by two phones - the iPhone and the GS4. Whether you like it or not, for the vast majority of consumers, they're not even coming in the store considering another option. They've seen the HTC One and like it, but fear not being in the same caliber of their friends and family if they don't stick with Apple or Samsung. They love the set-up of Windows Phone but wouldn't dare consider it although it may actually suit their needs better.

    That's why I think Motorola seriously dropped the ball on this. I remember when the HTC One came out, there was a similar euphoria on these forums, a similar feeling of optimism. All I'm hearing these days are doom and gloom at the slight mention of HTC - despite the fact that they released a wonderful phone. I'm not doubting the Moto X is awesome, I would certainly consider it if I didn't care about external storage, merely saying that Motorola is losing serious points by not coming to the table with something that beats all of the other high-end smartphones on the market raw specs wise - AND introduces features like the Moto Maker to all potential buyers at launch.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using AC Forums mobile app
    My main response would be, what reviews are you reading? Sure the benchmarks on the ONE and S4 are better but they are noticing zero lag on the phone which is more than I can say for the s4 running touchwiz. I think you personally are too caught up in the spec sheet.
    08-06-2013 05:28 PM
  23. asanatheist's Avatar
    It might sound ridiculous, but I am assuming that if the rumors were out that it was $200 on contract, that there wouldn't be this backlash now.

    It also goes to show how useless rumors are.

    But let's also remember that the gnex was $300 on contract with Verizon when released, and when it went to the play store a few months later, it was $400

    Similarly, the tmobile nexus 4 was $200 on contract or $300 from the play store.

    So perhaps the Moto X will be released at a lower price after a few months

    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II
    Good points. I would be thrilled to find out if its under $400 off contract. I would definitely get one just to support the USA labor.
    08-06-2013 08:56 PM
  24. Farish's Avatar
    Good points. I would be thrilled to find out if its under $400 off contract. I would definitely get one just to support the USA labor.
    Traditionally these phones go on sale 2-3 months after their release.
    08-07-2013 12:56 AM
  25. still1's Avatar
    interview with moto engineers explaining the X8 chip and screen. Top Motorola engineer defends Moto X specs (Q&A) | Mobile - CNET News

    wakeup people
    TheLibertarian and Aquila like this.
    08-07-2013 07:24 PM
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