09-03-2013 06:12 PM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    1) nobody needs an explanation of SoC and chipsets. Maybe you do, well you don't know either. You just google stuff. Congrats for being able to use google.

    2) really? You want me to explain again?

    Ok. Here we go captain slow.

    Your friend said "there is no 2012 technology in the Moto X". I said that's not true. Last thing I did was send you people a link with all the parts of the phone so you could see. Chip by chip what's inside that phone.

    Now you tell me there's no 2012 technology in there so that we can all know you REALLY have no clue what you're talking about.
    You might want to view this thread in a browser before you start insulting me.

    Also, look up some of the stuff I've written on the blog. And some stickied threads in the General News and Discussion thread. Heck, go ahead and ask Jerry if I know what I'm talking about with SoC's. Trust me, I know my stuff, and have nothing but 100% credibility when it comes to SoC's. I quoted from Wikipedia so you wouldn't have to just take my word for it.
    Ry, Aquila and TheLibertarian like this.
    08-26-2013 10:16 AM
  2. ajarnfalang's Avatar
    No, that's what YOU'RE talking about. I'm talking specifically about the SoC and accompanying contextual processors. I never made mention of any other components, that was someone else.

    You decided to focus on the processor, and were wrong, which is why I joined the discussion. To set things straight about the processor itself. Which you still haven't acknowledged that you were wrong about.
    Are you talking about the Snapdragon S4 pro?

    I already said, this is a 2012 processor that Motorola modified and is marketing it as an X8.

    My point to your friend was that while I will concede this has been modified, it is really the same dual core 1.7ghz from last year. Modified yes, but this you can't denied. Thus saying there is no 2012 technology is false.

    At its most basic it is still last year's S4 Pro 1.7ghz, but re-engineered and made "better".

    As I said before, Motorola is taking right from Apple and concentrated on the graphics.

    Get out of Google and LOOK at the parts of the phone.

    Notice how your friend only saw where it said "X8" because he can't understand anything on the left side. All those pictures have him confused.
    08-26-2013 10:24 AM
  3. Strawdawg's Avatar
    The discussion was over when you decided you had to result to snide insults when no one bought your arguments no matter how narrowly they were based.
    08-26-2013 10:30 AM
  4. JungleLarry's Avatar
    Beneath the stale argument and all the vitriol, you guys actually managed to provide some good information. Thanks for that.
    08-26-2013 10:35 AM
  5. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Are you talking about the Snapdragon S4 pro?

    I already said, this is a 2012 processor that Motorola modified and is marketing it as an X8.

    My point to your friend was that while I will concede this has been modified, it is really the same dual core 1.7ghz from last year. Modified yes, but this you can't denied. Thus saying there is no 2012 technology is false.

    At its most basic it is still last year's S4 Pro 1.7ghz, but re-engineered and made "better".

    As I said before, Motorola is taking right from Apple and concentrated on the graphics.

    Get out of Google and LOOK at the parts of the phone.

    Notice how your friend only saw where it said "X8" because he can't understand anything on the left side. All those pictures have him confused.
    Last year's dual-core ran at a max speed of 1.5ghz. Your facts are wrong, and so are your conclusions about the processor. This processor, the actual part number, did not exist last year. Since you want to be very specific, the Krait 300 core also didn't exist last year. It debuted with the Snapdragon 600 this year at CES, and launched primarily with the One and S4. The Adreno 320 did exist last year, in the S4 Pro with Krait 200 cores. But it's impossible to separate the two parts from the whole and say one part is old and one part is new. The parts don't work like that, and are not independent of one another. Even a difference in clockspeed means that extra engineering went into the product before release.

    While I get what you're saying with it being "basically the same" that's also fundamentally wrong at an engineering level with regards to the architectural improvements and engineering that went into making the dual-core work with the Adreno 320. This isn't an S600 with two cores "turned off". It's a brand new dual-core part from Qualcomm.
    Ry, TheLibertarian and Aquila like this.
    08-26-2013 10:44 AM
  6. Strawdawg's Avatar
    Beneath the stale argument and all the vitriol, you guys actually managed to provide some good information. Thanks for that.
    I bought a Motorola bag phone in 1983 and it had a lot of today's technology in it. It was just not evolved to today's level of miniaturization or complexity. They even had plastic in those days! Based on that, we can say that the Snapdragon 800 is not new technology but simply a continuing evolution as well as new uses for existing technology.

    That was what brought me to an interest in the Moto X, they broke with the spec game and aimed it at some practical uses as a tool. I suspect there will be a rush to outdo it in forthcoming models.
    TheLibertarian and Ry like this.
    08-26-2013 10:50 AM
  7. Ry's Avatar
    I think you should look up what a chipset is. From Wikipedia:

    A chipset is a set of electronic components in an integrated circuit that manage the data flow between the processor, memory and peripherals. It is usually found in the motherboard of a computer. Chipsets are usually designed to work with a specific family of microprocessors. Because it controls communications between the processor and external devices, the chipset plays a crucial role in determining system performance.


    Just so we're clear, the chipset doesn't include a CPU or, usually, GPU. There really isn't an equivalent with the ARM architecture, and to say otherwise is just wrong. What we're talking about with the X8 Moto is using a brand new dual-core design. As in, this is the very first family of devices to launch with it. Here, I'll let WIkipedia show you. You tell me where on this table the same qualcomm SoC (again, not a chipset) is used in 2012.

    Snapdragon (system on chip) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Your argument of "it's just a redesigned 2012 design" is misleading, and a bit disingenuous, since if you look at CPU design at all you'll realize that it's all derivative of previous architectures and generations. To think that a company can just take a dual-core design and slap a new GPU on it is really making light of the amount of engineering that goes into designing an SoC.

    Wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. I keep using SoC and I haven't actually said what that is, and I'm going to assume that you don't know either, since you keep using chipset. Again, from Wikipedia:

    A system on a chip or system on chip (SoC or SOC) is an integrated circuit (IC) that integrates all components of a computer or other electronic system into a single chip. It may contain digital, analog, mixed-signal, and often radio-frequencyfunctionsall on a single chip substrate. A typical application is in the area of embedded systems.

    A typical SoC consists of:


    These blocks are connected by either a proprietary or industry-standard bus such as the AMBA bus from ARM Holdings. DMA controllers route data directly between external interfaces and memory, bypassing the processor core and thereby increasing the data throughput of the SoC.



    Now do you understand what the difference between a chipset and SoC are? Good, back to the point I was making. SoC's aren't modular. You can't pick and choose what works together. Qualcomm took two Krait 300 cores (same cores as in the S600 which is found in the One and S4) and mated them with the Adreno 320 GPU. So, this is a brand new dual core design as far as SoC's go for Qualcomm. That point can't be argued. Last year's dual core Snapdragon had Krait 200 cores and the Adreno 225 GPU. The GPU is much slower in last year's SoC, and the CPU cores are also less efficient and also slower.

    We honestly don't know all that much about the custom processors that Moto is using for the contextual stuff. We can assume that they're some sort of DSP, and if you know anything about DSP's they are even more specific to the task they're designed to perform than ARM chips, which makes them even more efficient at doing what they do.

    Go ahead and install Open Mic+ and see what happens to your battery life. Keeping the CPU alive just to listen for voice commands is extremely inefficient. That's what these special processors do. Offload these relatively mundane tasks so that the CPU can focus on more demanding things.
    Thank you.
    TheLibertarian likes this.
    08-26-2013 11:34 AM
  8. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    People really need to stop ********.
    Agreed. Kind of like yourself. See, user experience is pretty relative. I have had apps crash and lag many times on iPhones when i've used them. I've had the screen freeze up whem i'm trying to accomplish something. Just last week a Vivint salesmen handed me his iPhone to mess with their app and see how cool it is. Well the app crashed and lagged.

    I agree with your overall point you're making. But I think you're being pretty rude in your delivery. Specs are not all that matter. But imagine how much better a device would be if they had the faster processor and better screen while ALSO being optimized and programmed to function as smooth as the Nexus 4, Moto X, and iPhones. Why can't we have it both ways? In my eyes, Apple focused on the user first (which is great), while Google focused and packing in the high end specs. But now Google has done well at ensuring a fantastic end user experience with Jelly Bean and TRIM and some of the newer features of 4.2-4.3. Apple has not however delivered high end products yet. The first company to successfully implement both of these aspects will get my money.
    08-26-2013 11:38 AM
  9. Ry's Avatar
    The ownage in this thread is spectacular.

    You could not get an "S4 Pro" with dual Krait 300s and the quad-core Adreno 320 in 2012. Not our fault if someone misinterprets what the "X8" really means.

    Marketing. lol.
    08-26-2013 11:40 AM
  10. Farish's Avatar
    I have a buddy who owns a quad core i7 16gb ram 3 tb computer with an ATI 7950.

    He doesn't game, he doesn't do video editing or photo post processing.

    He does word, excel, web browsing, emails, and facebook.

    But he wanted a computer that was future proof...
    carchayser likes this.
    08-26-2013 11:42 AM
  11. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    Question.......did I miss where it said someone wins a prize for winning the debate about 2012 tech and the differences between an SoC and a Chipset? Cause that's a pointless, boring, long debate to have for no reason whatsoever unless there's a free Moto X in it for someone.
    08-26-2013 12:00 PM
  12. JungleLarry's Avatar
    I have a buddy who owns a quad core i7 16gb ram 3 tb computer with an ATI 7950.

    He doesn't game, he doesn't do video editing or photo post processing.

    He does word, excel, web browsing, emails, and facebook.

    But he wanted a computer that was future proof...
    I bet it still lags too.
    Ry likes this.
    08-26-2013 12:09 PM
  13. ajarnfalang's Avatar
    The ownage in this thread is spectacular.

    You could not get an "S4 Pro" with dual Krait 300s and the quad-core Adreno 320 in 2012. Not our fault if someone misinterprets what the "X8" really means.

    Marketing. lol.
    The stupidity in this thread is spectacular.

    Nobody said that you could get what you're describing in 2012. Right?

    But, in 2012 you could get a 1.7ghz S4 Pro. And that is basically what this X8 is based on.

    Many here are being paid by Motorola to push the X8 propaganda.
    08-26-2013 12:34 PM
  14. ajarnfalang's Avatar
    The discussion was over when you decided you had to result to snide insults when no one bought your arguments no matter how narrowly they were based.
    Again. The X8 is based on a 2012 chip. S4 Pro 1.7ghz dual core. That's a fact.

    Did you ever wonder why Motorola never mentioned that or even said Qualcomm in their unveil?

    X8. That's the word of the day. For people here to get checks by Motorola.

    Are you telling me a dual core 1.7ghz S4 Pro wasn't available in 2012?
    08-26-2013 12:37 PM
  15. Farish's Avatar
    I bet it still lags too.
    No, but he complains about his wife's i3 computer with 4gb ram and an 128gb SSD (That got put in after I recommended it) responds better than his computer.....
    08-26-2013 12:41 PM
  16. JungleLarry's Avatar
    Again. The X8 is based on a 2012 chip. S4 Pro 1.7ghz dual core. That's a fact.

    Did you ever wonder why Motorola never mentioned that or even said Qualcomm in their unveil?

    X8. That's the word of the day. For people here to get checks by Motorola.

    Are you telling me a dual core 1.7ghz S4 Pro wasn't available in 2012?
    It's actually kind of ironic that you're bashing people for getting hung up on the "X8" title when you yourself are hung up on "S4 Pro."

    Here, have a read:
    Top Motorola engineer defends Moto X specs (Q&A) | Mobile - CNET News!
    Ry and Aquila like this.
    08-26-2013 12:41 PM
  17. guesswhat_567's Avatar
    yes thats true ..s4pro with 320 gpu and 1.7 ghz was not available to be shipped in volume in 2012 ..I work in this feild .. so Im aware of that.

    Again. The X8 is based on a 2012 chip. S4 Pro 1.7ghz dual core. That's a fact.

    Did you ever wonder why Motorola never mentioned that or even said Qualcomm in their unveil?

    X8. That's the word of the day. For people here to get checks by Motorola.

    Are you telling me a dual core 1.7ghz S4 Pro wasn't available in 2012?
    08-26-2013 12:43 PM
  18. JungleLarry's Avatar
    No, but he complains about his wife's i3 computer with 4gb ram and an 128gb SSD (That got put in after I recommended it) responds better than his computer.....
    Every time someone is building a system for speed I try to explain that SSD is far far far far more important for everyday practical performance than octacore CPUs and truckloads of RAM. Good recommendation.
    Ry likes this.
    08-26-2013 12:43 PM
  19. ajarnfalang's Avatar
    yes thats true ..s4pro with 320 gpu and 1.7 ghz was not available to be shipped in volume in 2012 ..I work in this feild .. so Im aware of that.
    I said that a couple of pages ago.

    Qualcomm took their 1.7ghz S4 Pro and updated the graphics to the 320.

    Then I said, saying that it doesn't have 2012 technology is false.

    You guys do know how to read right?

    The s4 Pro 1.7ghz dual core is from 2012. That they took that and updated the graphics is something else. It's still based on a 2012 CPU.

    That's exactly what the other guy said "yea but the 320gpu wasn't available in 2012".

    You guys have been proven wrong yet keep making the same arguments. That CPU is from 2012.

    You can rework it and upgrade it all you want, but you're still basing it on an S4 Pro 1.7 ghz dual core.
    08-26-2013 12:47 PM
  20. Farish's Avatar
    Go ahead and install Open Mic+ and see what happens to your battery life. Keeping the CPU alive just to listen for voice commands is extremely inefficient. That's what these special processors do. Offload these relatively mundane tasks so that the CPU can focus on more demanding things.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    I just saw this and installed open mic+ and it will work with the screen off but you still have to unlock the phone to give Google Now commands.

    So sad and the Moto X is better at this.
    08-26-2013 12:47 PM
  21. Farish's Avatar
    So how many of you complaining about the specs in this thread upgrade to the latest and fastest i7 cpu/motherboard/ram/hard drive every year?

    I really feel bad about those people who bought computers pre haswell a couple months ago because it their computers are so outdated now.
    Ry likes this.
    08-26-2013 12:57 PM
  22. thegrants82's Avatar
    So how many of you complaining about the specs in this thread upgrade to the latest and fastest i7 cpu/motherboard/ram/hard drive every year?

    I really feel bad about those people who bought computers pre haswell a couple months ago because it their computers are so outdated now.
    Your missing the point. What we are saying is that its already outdated right out of the box. Moto x is like buying a 2012 car when the 2014's are out....and paying a 2014 price for it

    Posted via Android Central App
    08-26-2013 01:01 PM
  23. Ry's Avatar
    I said that a couple of pages ago.

    Qualcomm took their 1.7ghz S4 Pro and updated the graphics to the 320.

    Then I said, saying that it doesn't have 2012 technology is false.

    You guys do know how to read right?

    The s4 Pro 1.7ghz dual core is from 2012. That they took that and updated the graphics is something else. It's still based on a 2012 CPU.

    That's exactly what the other guy said "yea but the 320gpu wasn't available in 2012".

    You guys have been proven wrong yet keep making the same arguments. That CPU is from 2012.

    You can rework it and upgrade it all you want, but you're still basing it on an S4 Pro 1.7 ghz dual core.
    Please correct me if I make any incorrect statements -

    The "S4 Pro" in the Nexus 4 (2012) uses 4 Krait 200 cores.

    The "S4 Pro" in the Moto X (2013) uses 2 Krait 300 cores.

    The "S4 Pro" in the Nexus 7 (second gen, 2013) uses 4 Krait 300 cores.

    Are any of these statements incorrect?

    Could you share which phones released in 2012 used Krait 300 cores?
    08-26-2013 01:09 PM
  24. JungleLarry's Avatar
    Your missing the point. What we are saying is that its already outdated right out of the box. Moto x is like buying a 2012 car when the 2014's are out....and paying a 2014 price for it

    Posted via Android Central App
    The 2014 M5 uses the same powerplant as the 2012. Quick, call BMW and explain your pricing strategy before they set themselves up for colossal failure.
    Ry, TheLibertarian and Jahmal A like this.
    08-26-2013 01:11 PM
  25. Rigelian's Avatar
    Your missing the point. What we are saying is that its already outdated right out of the box. Moto x is like buying a 2012 car when the 2014's are out....and paying a 2014 price for it

    Posted via Android Central App
    Wait a minute, I thought all of the 2014 "cars" would have dedicated contextual and natural language processors. Does that mean the 2013 cars are using pre-2014 technology and moto has taken the lead? One could easily say that the S4 and HTC One, the most modern hardware. It seems though that the Moto X, at least if I'm following the discussion accurately, is using a part that really wasn't available for smartphones until 2013. So how exactly is it using a 2012 part?
    Ry likes this.
    08-26-2013 01:12 PM
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