01-23-2014 01:05 AM
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  1. Xterror's Avatar
    I'm on my 3rd day of owning my moto X and I can agree that battery has been getting better. Right now I'm at 15hrs with 30% left. Made it through my work day no problem. My Gnex would have been charged 3 times by now and almost dead. I've only used my moto X with kitkat so don't know if jb gave better battery life.

    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    Traprock likes this.
    11-23-2013 02:08 AM
  2. sc4fpse's Avatar
    Based on what?

    My battery is unchanged and possibly better on 4.4 than 4.2.2. This stuff of people crying the sky is falling after a major update gets old fast. Did you ever stop to think your battery APPEARS to be worse (but actually isn't) because you're playing with the phone more after a big update, checking out all the new things Kit Kat brings? People will say they aren't, but it's more likely they are and just don't realize it.

    Relax, the battery is the same or better. Just use the phone and stop worrying.

    Sent from my Moto X
    First off, KitKat really didn't bring that many amazing new features. Nothing that would give you any reason to sit there and play with your phone all day for fun.

    Next, there have been many, many reports of significantly worse battery life. Maybe not here, but there definitely were.

    Speaking personally, my battery life has taken a significant hit. My usage pattern has not changed at all - I'm still working 8-5 or longer, and again, there's nothing in KitKat that made me use my phone more or less.

    There seem to be two battery bugs. One is related to Android OS. Android OS awake time is running MUCH higher on KitKat than before. Many people who updated noticed this right away. For those who did a factory reset (like myself), this issue did not immediately show up, but eventually reared its ugly head. The other battery bug seems to be tied to Play Services. Android Police seemed to be the only site that reported on this a few days ago, but this could have been a Google problem and not an issue directly tied to this update or the X.

    I look at my battery screen and it's blatantly obvious that my handset is staying awake a LOT more than before. Again, my usage has not changed. But my awake times are crazy, and my battery is draining much faster than before. There were pages and pages of these reports too. Don't be so quick to dismiss these issues just because you don't have them.
    DS1331 and KentuckyHouse like this.
    11-23-2013 07:58 AM
  3. KentuckyHouse's Avatar
    First off, KitKat really didn't bring that many amazing new features. Nothing that would give you any reason to sit there and play with your phone all day for fun.

    Next, there have been many, many reports of significantly worse battery life. Maybe not here, but there definitely were.

    Speaking personally, my battery life has taken a significant hit. My usage pattern has not changed at all - I'm still working 8-5 or longer, and again, there's nothing in KitKat that made me use my phone more or less.

    There seem to be two battery bugs. One is related to Android OS. Android OS awake time is running MUCH higher on KitKat than before. Many people who updated noticed this right away. For those who did a factory reset (like myself), this issue did not immediately show up, but eventually reared its ugly head. The other battery bug seems to be tied to Play Services. Android Police seemed to be the only site that reported on this a few days ago, but this could have been a Google problem and not an issue directly tied to this update or the X.

    I look at my battery screen and it's blatantly obvious that my handset is staying awake a LOT more than before. Again, my usage has not changed. But my awake times are crazy, and my battery is draining much faster than before. There were pages and pages of these reports too. Don't be so quick to dismiss these issues just because you don't have them.
    Fair enough and well-argued. It's nice to interact with someone that's clearly an adult (that happens so rarely on forums these days).

    I've apparently been lucky in that I haven't seen anything but the usual stellar battery life out of my X. But I feel for those that are having issues. For the sake of documentation, I didn't take the OTA...I flashed the leak and the subsequent leaked OTA that squashed some bugs. After flashing I did a factory reset from stock recovery. That's it.

    I hope you guys get it figured out.

    Sent from my Moto X
    sc4fpse likes this.
    11-23-2013 09:09 AM
  4. meskin84's Avatar
    I updated to Kit Kat last night and will definitely get to test it out through my twelve hour work day. So far, I can definitely say its an improvement on my previous phone, the iPhone 5. I can't speak about its performance from other Android phones, though. So far, I have been really pleased. Where I work I get NO signal. Most of the day I miss calls and notifications because of it. As a result, from my best guess, my battery dies extremely quick. By lunch, I am below 50%. That is my phone sitting on my desk doing nothing. I turned off all notifications, wifi and bluetooth hoping that would help, and it did. It didn't help very much.

    Very different story on my Moto X, much better battery. Even with all my notifications turned on, and WiFi and Bluetooth as well, I am seeing much better performance.
    11-23-2013 11:15 AM
  5. sc4fpse's Avatar
    Fair enough and well-argued. It's nice to interact with someone that's clearly an adult (that happens so rarely on forums these days).

    I've apparently been lucky in that I haven't seen anything but the usual stellar battery life out of my X. But I feel for those that are having issues. For the sake of documentation, I didn't take the OTA...I flashed the leak and the subsequent leaked OTA that squashed some bugs. After flashing I did a factory reset from stock recovery. That's it.

    I hope you guys get it figured out.

    Sent from my Moto X
    First off: Yes, it is nice to have a mature discussion on the internet. Way too rare.

    You say that you flashed the leak, which tells me you've got a different carrier's handset than mine (Verizon), so that could be why you're not seeing the same decreased battery life that myself and others are experiencing. The differences between the carriers' Moto X handsets were minimal, but you still can't dismiss them completely.
    11-23-2013 11:17 AM
  6. KentuckyHouse's Avatar
    First off: Yes, it is nice to have a mature discussion on the internet. Way too rare.

    You say that you flashed the leak, which tells me you've got a different carrier's handset than mine (Verizon), so that could be why you're not seeing the same decreased battery life that myself and others are experiencing. The differences between the carriers' Moto X handsets were minimal, but you still can't dismiss them completely.
    That's a very good point. I've got the AT&T version, so that could be a major difference. I've read the Verizon version has more bloat than the other carrier versions...do you see that to be true? With the AT&T version there are only 3 carrier apps and they can easily be disabled. I just wonder if the Verizon version has more bloat and if this contributes to any battery drain?

    Sent from my Moto X
    11-23-2013 11:29 AM
  7. Traprock's Avatar
    after spending a day at home locked onto a strong wifi signal this was my result
    1st day with MOTO X, worried about battery-screenshot_2013-11-22-20-14-56.png
    Now, today is a work day. Pulled off charger at 5:30am and drove to work. When I arrived at 6:45am I was down to 82% battery. Battery stats show Media server wsas the big hog. Reset phone and it seems to have settled down. here is my usage by lunch time:
    1st day with MOTO X, worried about battery-screenshot_2013-11-23-12-05-24.png
    Difficult to tell how it'll last until 5:30-6:00pm when I leave.
    I'll give it some more time to settle out.
    11-23-2013 12:26 PM
  8. KWKSLVR's Avatar
    Sounds I've a reset was definitely in order. Day 3 with mine and it's settling in nicely in the wakelock department. I didn't do a factory reset after the KitKat update, so I might eventually. But for now, battery life has been great. I have not had a day in 4G the whole time yet, so my weekend vacation this week will give me a better idea of what to expect. So far, I'm pleased.

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-23-2013 12:44 PM
  9. pgoelz's Avatar
    But also not often let go to close to total discharge. i like 20-85. lol. I've even gotten into the habit of charging via my usb so it slow charges, having read that helps long term battery life *shrug*
    In addition to owning a Moto X, I fly electric model airplanes and as such have extensive experience with lithium cells. Basically, EVERYTHING degrades lithium cells..... being fully charged, being fully discharged, charging, discharging, elevated temperature.... you name it, it degrades a lithium cell. How much each condition degrades a given cell is difficult to determine because we do not generally have access to manufacturer's data sheets. But my experience says that the worst thing you can do is fully discharge a lithium cell (ie., down to 3V). Next might come holding it fully charged (ie., 4.2V) for extended periods.

    The rule of thumb with lithium cells to get the best service life (important when you cannot replace the battery) is to keep them between 20% and 90% charged if possible. A lithium cell held fully charged or discharged below 20% and left there for extended time will degrade faster than it would between 20% and 90%.

    The only good that comes from fully discharging a lithium cell in a phone is that it may allow the battery metering circuit to re-calibrate. It definitely does not "condition" the cell itself like we used to do with NiCd cells.

    Paul
    Ry, Paisley, Postoid and 2 others like this.
    11-23-2013 01:54 PM
  10. Traprock's Avatar
    Sounds I've a reset was definitely in order. Day 3 with mine and it's settling in nicely in the wakelock department. I didn't do a factory reset after the KitKat update, so I might eventually. But for now, battery life has been great. I have not had a day in 4G the whole time yet, so my weekend vacation this week will give me a better idea of what to expect. So far, I'm pleased.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Does wakelock work with Kitkat? I read it didn't so I didn't install it to see what was the real culprit.
    11-23-2013 03:13 PM
  11. Paisley's Avatar
    In addition to owning a Moto X, I fly electric model airplanes and as such have extensive experience with lithium cells. Basically, EVERYTHING degrades lithium cells..... being fully charged, being fully discharged, charging, discharging, elevated temperature.... you name it, it degrades a lithium cell. How much each condition degrades a given cell is difficult to determine because we do not generally have access to manufacturer's data sheets. But my experience says that the worst thing you can do is fully discharge a lithium cell (ie., down to 3V). Next might come holding it fully charged (ie., 4.2V) for extended periods.

    The rule of thumb with lithium cells to get the best service life (important when you cannot replace the battery) is to keep them between 20% and 90% charged if possible. A lithium cell held fully charged or discharged below 20% and left there for extended time will degrade faster than it would between 20% and 90%.

    The only good that comes from fully discharging a lithium cell in a phone is that it may allow the battery metering circuit to re-calibrate. It definitely does not "condition" the cell itself like we used to do with NiCd cells.

    Paul
    What are your thoughts on slow vs. fast charging? I've read in a few places, fast chargers also degrade battery a little faster than normal and slow.

    Also, i'm thinking of getting a dock, and i don't like to fully charge my battery often, sitting on a regular charging dock would obviously do that, so i'm thinking about getting an extension cord with an on/off switch, do i need to pay attention to anything regarding that type of extension cord? I know that for a regular usb charger adapter, the one you use makes a difference, so i'm going to stick with the motorola (even though i think it's a fast charging one since they call it a "rapid charger", the dock would prolly come with a regular one. Thoughts?

    (also, what makes a fast charger, is it the amps? or the watts. The one the moto comes with is 1.2amps/6watts, i'm pretty sure the dock charger is a normal one).

    On the same note, i wish there was a function like I have on my laptop, which is to set at what level of battery do you want it to stop charging, i have my laptop set at 85, so at 85 even though it's still plugged in it stops charging. would be useful to be able to do that with my phone, any know if there is an app that does this? Although not sure how an app would be able to do that.
    11-23-2013 04:13 PM
  12. pgoelz's Avatar
    What are your thoughts on slow vs. fast charging? I've read in a few places, fast chargers also degrade battery a little faster than normal and slow.

    Also, i'm thinking of getting a dock, and i don't like to fully charge my battery often, sitting on a regular charging dock would obviously do that, so i'm thinking about getting an extension cord with an on/off switch, do i need to pay attention to anything regarding that type of extension cord? I know that for a regular usb charger adapter, the one you use makes a difference, so i'm going to stick with the motorola (even though i think it's a fast charging one since they call it a "rapid charger", the dock would prolly come with a regular one. Thoughts?

    (also, what makes a fast charger, is it the amps? or the watts. The one the moto comes with is 1.2amps/6watts, i'm pretty sure the dock charger is a normal one).

    On the same note, i wish there was a function like I have on my laptop, which is to set at what level of battery do you want it to stop charging, i have my laptop set at 85, so at 85 even though it's still plugged in it stops charging. would be useful to be able to do that with my phone, any know if there is an app that does this? Although not sure how an app would be able to do that.
    1. In the lithium world, "fast charging" is anything that takes LESS than one hour to fully charge from dead. I doubt that any phone exceeds that charge rate. But yes, charging at a rate greater than a one hour rate does degrade the battery faster.

    2. What you are thinking of as a "charger" is actually a power supply. The actual "charger" circuitry (ie., the electronics that controls the charge) is in the phone. You cannot control the charge rate.... that is set by the circuitry in the phone. However, if the power supply you use is not capable of supplying the current the phone requires for a one hour charge rate, the charge will take longer.... in essence a "slow charge". Look at the power supply and see what the output current is. It should equal or exceed the battery capacity for a one hour charge. But remember that the actual maximum charge rate is set by the phone, not the power supply (charger).

    3. Fully charging a battery does not cause much degradation if the charger in the phone shuts down when full charge is reached. At that point, the battery begins to discharge and rapidly falls below the 4.2V level where degradation occurs. My Nokia 820 operated this way. Not sure yet about the Moto X. Using a battery monitor should reveal whether the charger shuts down or holds the battery fully charged while the phone is in the dock.

    Paul
    11-23-2013 04:54 PM
  13. bryantest's Avatar
    First off, KitKat really didn't bring that many amazing new features. Nothing that would give you any reason to sit there and play with your phone all day for fun.

    Next, there have been many, many reports of significantly worse battery life. Maybe not here, but there definitely were.

    Speaking personally, my battery life has taken a significant hit. My usage pattern has not changed at all - I'm still working 8-5 or longer, and again, there's nothing in KitKat that made me use my phone more or less.

    There seem to be two battery bugs. One is related to Android OS. Android OS awake time is running MUCH higher on KitKat than before. Many people who updated noticed this right away. For those who did a factory reset (like myself), this issue did not immediately show up, but eventually reared its ugly head. The other battery bug seems to be tied to Play Services. Android Police seemed to be the only site that reported on this a few days ago, but this could have been a Google problem and not an issue directly tied to this update or the X.

    I look at my battery screen and it's blatantly obvious that my handset is staying awake a LOT more than before. Again, my usage has not changed. But my awake times are crazy, and my battery is draining much faster than before. There were pages and pages of these reports too. Don't be so quick to dismiss these issues just because you don't have them.
    I am definitely one of those people who are suffering from reduce battery life post Kitkat. =(

    From the way this is going.... My moto
    X may not even reach the typical 11+ hours I enjoy pre Kitkat with 5 hrs on screen time with wifi constantly on
    Posted via Android Central App
    11-23-2013 04:57 PM
  14. Paisley's Avatar
    1. In the lithium world, "fast charging" is anything that takes LESS than one hour to fully charge from dead. I doubt that any phone exceeds that charge rate. But yes, charging at a rate greater than a one hour rate does degrade the battery faster.

    2. What you are thinking of as a "charger" is actually a power supply. The actual "charger" circuitry (ie., the electronics that controls the charge) is in the phone. You cannot control the charge rate.... that is set by the circuitry in the phone. However, if the power supply you use is not capable of supplying the current the phone requires for a one hour charge rate, the charge will take longer.... in essence a "slow charge". Look at the power supply and see what the output current is. It should equal or exceed the battery capacity for a one hour charge. But remember that the actual maximum charge rate is set by the phone, not the power supply (charger).

    3. Fully charging a battery does not cause much degradation if the charger in the phone shuts down when full charge is reached. At that point, the battery begins to discharge and rapidly falls below the 4.2V level where degradation occurs. My Nokia 820 operated this way. Not sure yet about the Moto X. Using a battery monitor should reveal whether the charger shuts down or holds the battery fully charged while the phone is in the dock.

    Paul
    Thanks!

    So what is it about the moto x dual rapid charger that makes it rapid?

    A little confused on something, if full charge makes so little difference then why stop at the 85-90%?

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-23-2013 05:30 PM
  15. t0ked's Avatar
    That's a very good point. I've got the AT&T version, so that could be a major difference. I've read the Verizon version has more bloat than the other carrier versions...do you see that to be true? With the AT&T version there are only 3 carrier apps and they can easily be disabled. I just wonder if the Verizon version has more bloat and if this contributes to any battery drain?

    Sent from my Moto X
    Surprisingly not much bloat on the VZW Moto X. All I disabled was the caller ID app, vzw navigation, and vzw tones or something. Not much else. (I use the My Verizon app)

    So far, I've used it for 4 days. Average use I'm getting is 14 hours off battery, with average of about 3 hours screen on time with 40% battery left at the end of the day. Wifi on and gps on. Not bad...
    Ry, UJ95x and alphabets like this.
    11-23-2013 05:46 PM
  16. jephanie's Avatar
    Average use I'm getting is 14 hours off battery, with average of about 3 hours screen on time with 40% battery left at the end of the day. Wifi on and gps on. Not bad...
    3 hours screen with almost half the battery left isn't "not bad," it's pretty friggin' awesome in my book!
    t0ked likes this.
    11-23-2013 06:52 PM
  17. JRDroid's Avatar
    I picked up an X yesterday to replace my Droid Bionic. I settled on the X because of many reviews which despite the small internal battery alluded to very good battery life due to low powered hardware and features. This was expected to improve while once it updated from JB to KK.
    Upon activation it went through its many updates including getting KIT-KAT, but battery life seems a bit troubling. I went into settings and did some of the power saving features like lowering brightness and disabling GPS. Any other important features I should look at which could be bleeding battery power?

    Thanks
    People usualy use their phone much more for the first few days or week, even if they don't realize it. I'd give it a week or two and then decide about the battery life.
    11-23-2013 07:02 PM
  18. KWKSLVR's Avatar
    Does wakelock work with Kitkat? I read it didn't so I didn't install it to see what was the real culprit.
    The apps do not, but you can get a general idea by looking at your batter stats and clicking on History Details and looking at "Awake" vs "Screen On" time.

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-23-2013 07:11 PM
  19. sc4fpse's Avatar
    That's a very good point. I've got the AT&T version, so that could be a major difference. I've read the Verizon version has more bloat than the other carrier versions...do you see that to be true? With the AT&T version there are only 3 carrier apps and they can easily be disabled. I just wonder if the Verizon version has more bloat and if this contributes to any battery drain?

    Sent from my Moto X
    Well, the point isn't so much that there is X number of bloatware apps on the Verizon Moto X versus Y number of bloatware apps on [insert other carrier here]'s Moto X. The point is that the software differs in some way, and the hardware differs also (different radios for different frequencies). There are so many different things to factor into the equation here. You really have to be very careful when making any comparisons for these reasons.
    KentuckyHouse and Gerald211 like this.
    11-23-2013 07:46 PM
  20. pgoelz's Avatar
    Thanks!

    So what is it about the moto x dual rapid charger that makes it rapid?

    A little confused on something, if full charge makes so little difference then why stop at the 85-90%?

    Posted via Android Central App
    My guess is that it is referred to as "rapid" because it is capable of supplying the current required for a one hour charge. 1.6A for the Moto X. Lower current chargers cannot, so the charge rate is lower..... ie., "slow charge". The phone still controls the maximum charge rate, regardless of how much current any given power supply can supply. As far as I know. Has anyone seen any phone charge from 0 to 100% in less than an hour?

    My guess is that charging stops at around 90-95% because the charging circuit does not stop charging.... it just holds the voltage at that level until the USB cord is disconnected. As such, holding at 100% will degrade the battery if the phone remains connected for long periods. It is also possible that charging does NOT stop when the battery gauge jumps to 100% but continues past that point. That is what my Nokia 820 did. If you took it off charge as soon as it declared it was at 100%, it would start falling from 100% immediately. But if you left it on charge another hour or so, it could take as long as 5-6 hours to fall below 100%.

    This is all educated guesswork on my part. Motorola does not see fit (as far as I know) to inform us exactly how the battery charge system behaves. I do know that my Moto X starts falling from 100% as soon as I take it off charge, regardless of how long it was on charge. And it does not seem to drop below 100% UNTIL I take it off charge. That would imply that it does not charge above what it calls 100%, and it does not discontinue charging when it reaches 100% but holds it there. Soon as I find a battery monitor that works with KK I'll do some testing.

    Paul
    11-23-2013 08:30 PM
  21. Dsat1908's Avatar
    I've had my AT&T Moto X since it came out. Got the 4.4 update yesterday and immediately noticed lag others have reported. I tried the ART runtime which improved performance but RunKeeper's GPS didn't work and I use that app so I did a factory reset and went back to Dalvik. No more lag after the factory reset (it reset to 4.4 unfortunately, was hoping to go back to 4.2.2). HOWEVER battery drain is a real issue. I've had this phone for over two months so I know what is abnormal and 4.4 is sucking the battery dry. sent a text to my son, battery was at 70%, 35 minutes later with hardly touching the phone it was down to 56%. That is NOT good. I called AT&T and they are willing to send me a replacement (same custom colors so they say) but I'm going to give it a couple of days and AT&T is supposed to call me back Monday to see how the battery issue it.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've already turned on the battery saver feature and set brightness to AUTO, both things I didn't have to do on 4.2.2.
    11-23-2013 10:21 PM
  22. DS1331's Avatar
    Waiting to upgrade to kitkat for these same reasons please keep us informed

    Q10, HTC One, Nexus 7, Moto X
    11-23-2013 10:29 PM
  23. jephanie's Avatar
    My wife was on WiFi at the house all day and was off charger for about 15 hours, had 5-1/2 hours of screen time and was down to 30% when she went to bed. Most of it was on Facebook, texting and web browsing (she's not into games or graphic-intensive apps). She could have achieved nearly 8 hours of screen time at that rate before it hit zero. All I can say is....WOW.

    I play games and browse a lot of news and such via Pulse and was on pace for ~4 hours of screen time before I would have hit zero, including a couple hours on LTE. Sadly, I still constantly worry about battery life even at 75% because of my trauma with the Galaxy Nexus and its absolutely horrid battery life.
    11-23-2013 11:34 PM
  24. tonymhoffman's Avatar
    I've had my AT&T Moto X since it came out. Got the 4.4 update yesterday and immediately noticed lag others have reported. I tried the ART runtime which improved performance but RunKeeper's GPS didn't work and I use that app so I did a factory reset and went back to Dalvik. No more lag after the factory reset (it reset to 4.4 unfortunately, was hoping to go back to 4.2.2). HOWEVER battery drain is a real issue. I've had this phone for over two months so I know what is abnormal and 4.4 is sucking the battery dry. sent a text to my son, battery was at 70%, 35 minutes later with hardly touching the phone it was down to 56%. That is NOT good. I called AT&T and they are willing to send me a replacement (same custom colors so they say) but I'm going to give it a couple of days and AT&T is supposed to call me back Monday to see how the battery issue it.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've already turned on the battery saver feature and set brightness to AUTO, both things I didn't have to do on 4.2.2.
    Man this seems fishy.. Can you try to turn location services off and see how things go for a day?

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-24-2013 04:50 AM
  25. bryantest's Avatar
    So...I was experiencing pretty quick battery drain after Kitkat update (doesn't help if I only had one bar of WiFi signal althrougout)..so I decided to act upon tommy's suggestions.
    a) clear partition cache
    b) factory reset)
    c) clear partition cache again

    100% charged. Wifi on- couple of emails on sync...weak Wifi signal again (one bar)...no gps and location services turned on..did a lot of FB posting, websurfing and youtube watching...these are the results



    You guys think these are up to par? thanks!
    Attached Thumbnails 1st day with MOTO X, worried about battery-screenshot_2013-11-24-09-53-07.png   1st day with MOTO X, worried about battery-screenshot_2013-11-24-09-53-12.png   1st day with MOTO X, worried about battery-screenshot_2013-11-24-09-53-24.png  
    jephanie likes this.
    11-24-2013 06:21 PM
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