01-02-2017 12:08 AM
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  1. QBert's Avatar
    Hi everyone, I am hoping those that have this phone can help me. I'm between this phone and the Pixel XL. The only thing holding me back right now is the camera. Everything I read (on AC anyway) says the Pixel camera is the best out there, and reviews also say the Force camera is so-so. For those that have used the Force, can you give me your impressions on the camera? I will be coming from a Note 4, and I am happy with the camera on that, and would be happy with similar or better performance.

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    11-02-2016 12:42 PM
  2. PowrDroid's Avatar
    Hi everyone, I am hoping those that have this phone can help me. I'm between this phone and the Pixel XL. The only thing holding me back right now is the camera. Everything I read (on AC anyway) says the Pixel camera is the best out there, and reviews also say the Force camera is so-so. For those that have used the Force, can you give me your impressions on the camera? I will be coming from a Note 4, and I am happy with the camera on that, and would be happy with similar or better performance.

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    Don't have either phone, but they are on my radar and camera is my #2 criteria after battery life.

    Generally speaking, the Z Force with its 21MP shooter is going to give you greater detail than the Pixel XL with 12MP shooter. The Pixel XL is going to be better in low light (less noise.)

    See:

    https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Moto...stance/Ranking

    Then click on individual links:

    https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Moto...-Mobile-review

    https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Pixe...iew-At-the-top
    xweb10 likes this.
    11-02-2016 01:12 PM
  3. QBert's Avatar
    So according to them, the Force has a very capable camera, but the Pixel is a clear winner.
    11-02-2016 02:08 PM
  4. doogald's Avatar
    But somehow Dxomark missed the lens flare issue with the Pixel camera when they gave it top reviews?

    Google Pixel Has a Lens Flare Problem, Software Fix Coming

    I've always wondered about Dxomarks' reviews myself. I was particularly suspicious when Google touted their review during the Pixel introduction. Clearly dxomark was given pre-release hardware, and not something that they bought off the shelf. I've always been suspicious that they are paid for good reviews?

    I prefer a site like Anandtech instead... they seem to review more honestly. (They really like the Z Force camera, BTW, though they still do not have a Pixel review on the site.) Camera Hardware & Photo Quality - The Motorola Moto Z & Moto Z Force (Droid Editions) Review
    11-02-2016 02:22 PM
  5. rivencap's Avatar
    I'm going to be completely honest. If you're coming from a Sammy camera, you will have some adjusting to do. I was hoping moto was going to update the camera from the turbo 2. This would have been an iPhone/Sammy killer in my eyes. But moto did not. I use a third party app to get by. The motos are awesome with signal strength, especially on Verizon. The vanilla/plain os system to customize. But if all you're worried about is a camera, then do try the pixel out.
    11-02-2016 02:25 PM
  6. PowrDroid's Avatar
    I've always wondered about Dxomarks' reviews myself. I was particularly suspicious when Google touted their review during the Pixel introduction. Clearly dxomark was given pre-release hardware, and not something that they bought off the shelf. I've always been suspicious that they are paid for good reviews?
    I've wondered this as well.

    I prefer a site like Anandtech instead... they seem to review more honestly. (They really like the Z Force camera, BTW, though they still do not have a Pixel review on the site.) Camera Hardware & Photo Quality - The Motorola Moto Z & Moto Z Force (Droid Editions) Review
    Yes, and they give you photos of a decent size so you can open in another tab in your browser, zoom in on them and look around. They also place other competing phone's shots next to the shot from the camera they are reviewing so you can directly compare.

    To me it comes down to:

    Pixel XL
    Average resolution (12 MP)
    Excellent low light capability with low noise

    OR

    Z Force
    Excellent resolution (21 MP)
    Very good low light capability with some noise

    I like the greater detail and the ability to zoom in and crop areas over having excellent low light shots. I don't take too many low light shots, so I can tolerate a bit of noise. What I'm interested in is how does the Pixel XL and Z Force do with some motion, i.e. a toddler running, a dog walking, motion by athletes at a sporting event?
    11-02-2016 03:44 PM
  7. PowrDroid's Avatar
    I'm going to be completely honest. If you're coming from a Sammy camera, you will have some adjusting to do. I was hoping moto was going to update the camera from the turbo 2. This would have been an iPhone/Sammy killer in my eyes. But moto did not.
    Yes, they did. The Z Force has an updated Sony sensor (Sony IMX338 with f1.8), and optical image stabilization. Plus a new camera app.
    doogald likes this.
    11-02-2016 03:49 PM
  8. Connert's Avatar
    I have both devices and I'm currently using the Pixel XL as my daily driver, at least for the next few days. I've been using the moto z force for the last month.

    I've been keeping notes on what I like and dislike about each. I'll be testing both cameras tomorrow so I can post them along with my thoughts on each device. I hope to have this all together by the weekend.
    benjamminh and doogald like this.
    11-02-2016 05:08 PM
  9. QBert's Avatar
    That would be great - thanks in advance for your help!
    11-02-2016 05:59 PM
  10. QBert's Avatar
    I'm going to be completely honest. If you're coming from a Sammy camera, you will have some adjusting to do. I was hoping moto was going to update the camera from the turbo 2. This would have been an iPhone/Sammy killer in my eyes. But moto did not. I use a third party app to get by. The motos are awesome with signal strength, especially on Verizon. The vanilla/plain os system to customize. But if all you're worried about is a camera, then do try the pixel out.
    There are a few things that I am looking for - as you mentioned signal strength is one - I find Moto has great radios. I would also think I would like the Moto gestures - waving my hand over the phone to see notifications would be awesome. My phone sits on a desk most of the day, and being able to wave to see notifications and having the fingerprint sensor on the front to unlock the phone (vs the back on the Pixel) is preferable. The camera isn't my only concern, but it seems to be the only thing the Z Force is not strong in. Most of my pictures are of my 2 small kids and just would like something that can take good candid shots of them that look good on a computer or my phone, and the occasional printed photo.
    11-02-2016 06:04 PM
  11. rivencap's Avatar
    There are a few things that I am looking for - as you mentioned signal strength is one - I find Moto has great radios. I would also think I would like the Moto gestures - waving my hand over the phone to see notifications would be awesome. My phone sits on a desk most of the day, and being able to wave to see notifications and having the fingerprint sensor on the front to unlock the phone (vs the back on the Pixel) is preferable. The camera isn't my only concern, but it seems to be the only thing the Z Force is not strong in. Most of my pictures are of my 2 small kids and just would like something that can take good candid shots of them that look good on a computer or my phone, and the occasional printed photo.
    I don't want to get into a hissy fit with anyone. I'm only stating my opinion. You're right, this is the only thing moto lacks in the last few releases, the camera. I might have been wrong, they attempted to update the camera from the turbo 2 to the z force. But no matter how good of a lens you put in, you don't put in a low light meter/true image stabilization - you don't get the best photos. I want moto to succeed and crush iPhone/sammy. I wish they would just go all the way and really update the camera. Oh and right now besides little bugs here and there, there is no Miracast. Currently, you can only mirror your phone through Chromecast. Besides that no other complaints. I love the reception out in the country I have, the battery and the basic os so I can customize with other apps like Nova Prime.
    11-02-2016 06:29 PM
  12. QBert's Avatar
    I don't want to get into a hissy fit with anyone. I'm only stating my opinion. You're right, this is the only thing moto lacks in the last few releases, the camera. I might have been wrong, they attempted to update the camera from the turbo 2 to the z force. But no matter how good of a lens you put in, you don't put in a low light meter/true image stabilization - you don't get the best photos. I want moto to succeed and crush iPhone/sammy. I wish they would just go all the way and really update the camera. Oh and right now besides little bugs here and there, there is no Miracast. Currently, you can only mirror your phone through Chromecast. Besides that no other complaints. I love the reception out in the country I have, the battery and the basic os so I can customize with other apps like Nova Prime.
    My apologies - I definitely wasn't trying to disagree with you - I agree with a lot of what you said - I appreciate your thoughts and info as someone who has actually used the phone!
    11-02-2016 07:09 PM
  13. rivencap's Avatar
    My apologies - I definitely wasn't trying to disagree with you - I agree with a lot of what you said - I appreciate your thoughts and info as someone who has actually used the phone!
    Not you. The other commentator.
    11-02-2016 07:13 PM
  14. PowrDroid's Avatar
    I have both devices and I'm currently using the Pixel XL as my daily driver, at least for the next few days. I've been using the moto z force for the last month.

    I've been keeping notes on what I like and dislike about each. I'll be testing both cameras tomorrow so I can post them along with my thoughts on each device. I hope to have this all together by the weekend.
    Looking forward to your report.
    11-02-2016 08:24 PM
  15. doogald's Avatar
    But no matter how good of a lens you put in, you don't put in a low light meter/true image stabilization - you don't get the best photos.
    FWIW, the Pixels do not have true (I assume you mean optical) image stabilization. They have software ("electronic") stabilization for video, but it's still not OIS.
    11-02-2016 08:40 PM
  16. PowrDroid's Avatar
    Not you. The other commentator.
    It's a completely new camera in the Z Force. From the link in doogald's post:

    The Moto Z Force Droid uses a more advanced 21MP Sony sensor with deep trench isolation (DTI) technology for improved color fidelity. It also uses a hybrid autofocus system that combines laser, phase detection (PDAF), and contrast detection methods, which should provide faster, more reliable focusing performance in a variety of lighting conditions.

    And here is the camera test section in the Anandtech article:
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/10493/...droid-review/5
    11-02-2016 08:46 PM
  17. PowrDroid's Avatar
    But no matter how good of a lens you put in, you don't put in a low light meter/true image stabilization - you don't get the best photos.
    What do you mean when you say the Z Force does not have "true" image stabilization?
    benjamminh likes this.
    11-02-2016 08:50 PM
  18. benjamminh's Avatar
    No halos either so far 😂.
    11-02-2016 09:00 PM
  19. Mike-Mike's Avatar
    I just got my Force about 2 hours ago. So obviously I haven't had time to really get into the camera.

    However I just came from the S7 Edge and it doesn't seem like much of a step down in camera
    maxman1 likes this.
    11-02-2016 11:35 PM
  20. QBert's Avatar
    I just got my Force about 2 hours ago. So obviously I haven't had time to really get into the camera.

    However I just came from the S7 Edge and it doesn't seem like much of a step down in camera
    Just curious, what made you switch from the S7 Edge to the Force (S7 Edge is also something I'm considering)?
    11-03-2016 01:04 AM
  21. Mike-Mike's Avatar
    Just curious, what made you switch from the S7 Edge to the Force (S7 Edge is also something I'm considering)?
    i change phones a lot. i have had the Edge since launch, so March maybe? I was planning on getting the Note 7 and of course that didn't work out. So I already had the bug to switch phones. I tried the V20, and it just wasn't for me. Went back to the S7 Edge in less than 24 hours.

    less than 24 hours in, I'm pretty sure I'm keeping this Z Force. Get the Verizon Flexible Glass screen protector, and the Best Buy deal and it is pretty amazing. Seems Moto/Google has done some improvements since I last had a Droid Turbo. Keyboard seems better, the number row pops up automatically for passwords, they added a Clear option in the recent apps menu.

    I also will find some good uses for the mods.
    11-03-2016 12:00 PM
  22. QBert's Avatar
    i change phones a lot. i have had the Edge since launch, so March maybe? I was planning on getting the Note 7 and of course that didn't work out. So I already had the bug to switch phones. I tried the V20, and it just wasn't for me. Went back to the S7 Edge in less than 24 hours.

    less than 24 hours in, I'm pretty sure I'm keeping this Z Force. Get the Verizon Flexible Glass screen protector, and the Best Buy deal and it is pretty amazing. Seems Moto/Google has done some improvements since I last had a Droid Turbo. Keyboard seems better, the number row pops up automatically for passwords, they added a Clear option in the recent apps menu.

    I also will find some good uses for the mods.
    Yeah, coming from a Note 4 I was looking forward to the Note 7, but, well, you know...

    Did you get the Best Buy deal with the speaker and battery mods and the BB gift card? That seems like a great deal.

    Thanks for your thoughts on the 2 phones - I appreciate the help!
    11-03-2016 12:18 PM
  23. ASD Dad's Avatar
    I was pleasantly surprised by the camera and it was high on my list of needs with 3 kids. I had a LG G4, Moto X Pure and Nexus 5x to compare it with and my wife had the iPhone 6 and now the 7. The G4 had way more controls and tweaks available which is nice (I also shoot with a DSLR and micro 4/3) but 9/10 times with my phone I want to grab and just shoot, not tweak. If I want those shots for a Christmas card I take out my big cameras. In full auto mode I would say the Z Force compares very well with the iPhone 7 and is better than the others in overall usage. iPhones still manage to do color balance really well as far as getting it "correct". It is not muted nor is it punchy like a Samsung phone. The low light shots are fine for every day use and sharing with the OIS helping a ton. You can get some pretty slow shutter speeds to let in enough light and still have a clear shot if you hold well.

    From my usage I would say the Z Force is better than all other than iPhone 7. The 5x was pretty decent but is sloooow, especially with HDR on. The MXPE was just OK even brand new. You could get shots that were OK on FB but dont blow them up at all. The G4 is just showing it's age. When new I was blown away, now it just sort of decent.

    I'm heading to Disney for a week and I want to really compare the Z Force vs. my wifes iPhone 7. We'll be in bright sun to indoors to full night for shots. I am trying to avoid bringing my Olympus 4/3 to the parks if I can.
    11-03-2016 02:49 PM
  24. PowrDroid's Avatar
    I was pleasantly surprised by the camera and it was high on my list of needs with 3 kids.
    Thanks for the info. How is the Z Force for capturing action and motion (i.e. kids running around?)
    11-03-2016 02:51 PM
  25. ASD Dad's Avatar
    Thanks for the info. How is the Z Force for capturing action and motion (i.e. kids running around?)
    Well... no phone camera does all that great for fast motion. If you are outside in bright light with the phone picking a nice fast shutter than sure. Sometimes you sort of need to anticipate the shot a bit. I have a fast 4 yr old boy and I get a lot of motion blur unless in full sun. I tend to get that with any phone though. One thing that can help is just hold down the shutter button. It will keep on firing and one shot may work better than the rest. I do that with my DSLR as well.

    Indoors you need a manual camera app so you can pick a faster shutter to avoid blur but then you run into dark shots with too little light getting to the sensor. OIS does nothing for capturing movement, it just helps combat your hand moving when taking a photo of a still object.
    11-03-2016 03:19 PM
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