10-05-2016 04:01 PM
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  1. Ry's Avatar
    After a 6P and Moto X Pure I've really come to appreciate unlocked devices so won't be considering this on Verizon. The battery mod makes the phone look better IMO. The uber thinness of the plain phone is a turn off to me and that wimpy battery just adds to the turn off. I'd probably look at the "Force" if I was even considering this. My current Moto X is running just fine so be sticking with it. I did read somewhere that Lenovo/Motorola said when asked that the "X" line is not dead. The "Z" line is just in addition to their offerings. So if this be a true statement then maybe a new unlocked "X" could be coming down the road at some point. Especially if the "Z" line doesn't sell that well.
    I truly don't see anyone using this phone without at least a Style Shell mod.

    Posted via the Android Central App on the Moto X Pure Edition
    06-10-2016 01:10 PM
  2. deesugar's Avatar
    I would love to compare sales of the Moto X Pure Edition or Nexus 6P vs. the 2015 DROIDs.
    For investing purposes??? Because I'd love to compare customer satisfaction which is way more important. Tesla doesn't come anywhere near the sales of the big Auto companies but they make a damn fine car and if you want to last in the tech business you better have a strong following.

    Didn't Android Central find the 6P one of the best phones you could get that year??

    I know Dieter Bohn at the Verge did:
    Nexus 6P review: the best Android phone | The Verge
    06-10-2016 01:14 PM
  3. cbreze's Avatar
    I truly don't see anyone using this phone without at least a Style Shell mod.

    Posted via the Android Central App on the Moto X Pure Edition
    Same here, I wouldn't either. My mod would need to be the battery mod. But to have to pay extra for it just rubs me the wrong way. I think their strategy must be to sell the mods so hey, battery to wimpy? , "we have a mod for that". Speaker to wimpy? etc.
    J Dubbs likes this.
    06-10-2016 01:14 PM
  4. stanleywinthrop's Avatar
    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    But if we're talking personal experiences, I travel a lot for work. I literally look at every single phone I see in the wild to see what it is. I've seen barely a handful non-Verizon motorolas in the last few years. Its samsungs (and iphones) as far as the eye can see. And those samsungs are months (at best) or yearS out of date.

    Direct-to-consumer-off-contract and lightning-fast updates won over the tech blogs and you and I. But that is a rounding error in the volume of motorola phones Verizon will sell in the coming year. And considering Lenovo bought a company that was 100% established and set up to do direct-to-consumer-sales-with-lightning-fast-updates and scrapped it all, I would guess the numbers just don't work.

    Its frustrating that there are no responsible android manufacturers with scale. But my method of staying up to date works for me: Buy the latest and greatest phone every 3 months, and if there is a break in new releases hang onto a nexus in-between.
    Bingo. This is the point that so many people are missing. The dream failed. Lenovo/Motorola is a corporation, Corporations exist to make money and for no other reason no matter what your personal preferences is. The objective fact is that motorola lostmoney under google and that trend has continued under Lenovo. Why so many fan boys insist that motorola keep doing doing the things that have lost money is beyond me. Moto must make money. Or Moto will die.

    Does the Z guarantee that moto will make money? Hardly. But it has a significantly better shot at it than the X (i.e. near 0).
    06-10-2016 01:18 PM
  5. Ry's Avatar
    For investing purposes??? Because I'd love to compare customer satisfaction which is way more important. Tesla doesn't come anywhere near the sales of the big Auto companies but they make a damn fine car and if you want to last in the tech business you better have a strong following.
    If updates were a sales driver, wouldn't phones that offer near guaranteed updates have higher sales than those that don't?

    I think updates are important. I think security updates are even more important. But what evidence is there to say that the general public ranks updates high when purchasing a smartphone.

    I'm not sure how customer satisfaction is a better metric than raw sales numbers when it comes to my belief that OS updates are not a significant sales driver for the regular smartphone buying public.

    Posted via the Android Central App on the Moto X Pure Edition
    Aquila likes this.
    06-10-2016 01:21 PM
  6. stanleywinthrop's Avatar
    For investing purposes??? Because I'd love to compare customer satisfaction which is way more important. Tesla doesn't come anywhere near the sales of the big Auto companies but they make a damn fine car and if you want to last in the tech business you better have a strong following.

    Didn't Android Central find the 6P one of the best phones you could get that year??

    I know the Verge did:
    Nexus 6P review: the best Android phone | The Verge
    Customer satisfaction is way more important than raw sales? Do you capitalism bro?
    06-10-2016 01:21 PM
  7. stanleywinthrop's Avatar
    If updates were a sales driver, wouldn't phones that offer near guaranteed updates have higher sales than those that don't?

    I think updates are important. I think security updates are even more important. But what evidence is there to say that the general public ranks updates high when purchasing a smartphone.

    I'm saying updates aren't a sales driver. To show that, we'd have to look at sales.

    If people are miserable enough with their smartphones not getting updates, they would buy smartphones that got updates regularly. If they're not buying those smartphones, it would be easy to infer that it doesn't matter that much to them.

    Posted via the Android Central App on the Moto X Pure Edition
    A++++ Ry. The number of people who are confusing their personal subjective preferences with objective reality blows my mind.
    06-10-2016 01:23 PM
  8. Ry's Avatar
    Same here, I wouldn't either. My mod would need to be the battery mod. But to have to pay extra for it just rubs me the wrong way. I think their strategy must be to sell the mods so hey, battery to wimpy? , "we have a mod for that". Speaker to wimpy? etc.
    I doubt the speaker on the phone is wimpy though.
    06-10-2016 01:24 PM
  9. deesugar's Avatar
    If updates were a sales driver, wouldn't phones that offer near guaranteed updates have higher sales than those that don't?
    My quote says "customer satisfaction"
    06-10-2016 01:25 PM
  10. Ry's Avatar
    My quote says "customer satisfaction"
    I'm not sure how customer satisfaction is a better metric than raw sales numbers when it comes to my belief that OS updates are not a significant sales driver for the regular smartphone buying public.
    06-10-2016 01:27 PM
  11. deesugar's Avatar
    Customer satisfaction is way more important than raw sales? Do you capitalism bro?
    You're telling me literally, "If everyone is doing it" you will too? Lemming much bro?
    How is your iPhone working out?
    06-10-2016 01:28 PM
  12. stanleywinthrop's Avatar
    My quote says "customer satisfaction"
    Pop question sugar. In 2013 and 2014 which phones do you think had higher customer satisfaction? Samsung, Nexus, or Motorola?

    Now the easy part: in 2013 and 2014 which phones had higher sales figures (by orders of magnitude)? Samsung, Nexus, or Motorola?
    06-10-2016 01:29 PM
  13. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I'm six pages late here. I was a little busy yesterday :P

    I like what Lenovo did. They made a phone that they think will appeal to plenty of folks. It looks good, has some customization options and carries the Motorola name.

    They didn't make the Moto Z for me. I'll probably have some time with one, and I'll enjoy it for what it is. But I won't be purchasing one for myself because I'm not part of that target audience.

    And that's OK.

    If you're part of that target audience, don't worry about what nerds on AC forums think.

    As for the discussion on updates — it's important to keep harping on all companies about getting security updates out to their phones. The people who don't know or don't care benefit when it happens, just like the people who do care. I'll continue to complain about any company who takes more than 30-ish days to get a security update out, in the hopes that the people involved read enough complaints to make them want to do it.

    Moto/Lenovo, you suck at security updates. Look back at how you did things under Google's ownership, and go back to doing it that way. Your customers deserve it, and you need to appreciate them a little more than you do now.
    06-10-2016 01:30 PM
  14. stanleywinthrop's Avatar
    You're telling me literally, "If everyone is doing it" you will too? Lemming much bro?
    How is your iPhone working out?
    What i'm telling you, literally, is that corporations exist to make money, not to make people like you happy. Customer satisfaction is only relevant to a corporation inasmuch as it directly affects that corporations bottom line. Keeping you happy the last 3 years didn't exactly open up the coffers down at the moto money bank did it?

    And I've owned and liked all 3 versions of the Moto X. My mind isn't made up about the Z yet. But I'm keeping an open mind until I can handle the phone and learn more.
    06-10-2016 01:32 PM
  15. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Moto/Lenovo, you suck at security updates. Look back at how you did things under Google's ownership, and go back to doing it that way. Your customers deserve it, and you need to appreciate them a little more than you do now.
    Come to think of it, on Daniel's hands-on, the Moto Z is on the May 1st patch.

    When do you reckon the June patch will make it onto the device? The Nexus devices and some of the flagship Galaxy phones look to have received their security patches already.
    06-10-2016 01:35 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    For investing purposes??? Because I'd love to compare customer satisfaction which is way more important. Tesla doesn't come anywhere near the sales of the big Auto companies but they make a damn fine car and if you want to last in the tech business you better have a strong following.

    Didn't Android Central find the 6P one of the best phones you could get that year??

    I know Dieter Bohn at the Verge did:
    Nexus 6P review: the best Android phone | The Verge
    FromThe Huawei Nexus 6P review | Android Central: "It's the best Android phone I've ever used."
    deesugar likes this.
    06-10-2016 01:40 PM
  17. deesugar's Avatar
    I'm not sure how customer satisfaction is a better metric than raw sales numbers when it comes to my belief that OS updates are not a significant sales driver for the regular smartphone buying public.
    You're twisting yourself into knots by merging one thing I said and another thing you said and then shoehorning it into your own hypothesis but attributing it to me.

    The update fiasco for Droid Turbo owners was about more then the updates themselves. It was the poor communication and the update that did come out (very late, they had to skip one) could brick your phone. The customer experience is a measure of expectations and many of us were left extremely disappointed.

    Yelp and Amazon rating systems are based on the number of people's satisfaction not the number of sales. Maybe there's a lemming rating system but I haven't seen one yet.
    06-10-2016 01:40 PM
  18. Ry's Avatar
    As for the discussion on updates — it's important to keep harping on all companies about getting security updates out to their phones. The people who don't know or don't care benefit when it happens, just like the people who do care. I'll continue to complain about any company who takes more than 30-ish days to get a security update out, in the hopes that the people involved read enough complaints to make them want to do it.

    Moto/Lenovo, you suck at security updates. Look back at how you did things under Google's ownership, and go back to doing it that way. Your customers deserve it, and you need to appreciate them a little more than you do now.
    I am of the belief that until we have a major security incident or breach, not just a "scare", none of these manufacturers will take security as important as they should. Sad, but true? Thoughts?
    06-10-2016 01:43 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    If updates were a sales driver, wouldn't phones that offer near guaranteed updates have higher sales than those that don't?

    I think updates are important. I think security updates are even more important. But what evidence is there to say that the general public ranks updates high when purchasing a smartphone.

    I'm not sure how customer satisfaction is a better metric than raw sales numbers when it comes to my belief that OS updates are not a significant sales driver for the regular smartphone buying public.

    Posted via the Android Central App on the Moto X Pure Edition
    They're both important, but they measure different things. Gross sales measures the ability to convince the public at large that a product, as an entire package, is worth buying. It isn't really impacted by the quality of that particular device or how happy with people are long term with it - and typically doesn't back out returns or stale product. Customer satisfaction and product quality are both discovered later and because most of the market does absolutely no research before buying their next device, the experiences of owners of prior generations typically do not impact the sales of the next generation directly. For example, the Galaxy S6 was a very bad phone by Android Nerd Community standards, yet it sold fantastically and so did the Note 5 and so did the S7. The Nexus 6P was considered to be a much stronger device and yet probably sold 5% of Samsung's volume. Whether or not a product is good seems to have very little correlation with whether or not it sells.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-10-2016 01:45 PM
  20. Clocks's Avatar
    I am of the belief that until we have a major security incident or breach, not just a "scare", none of these manufacturers will take security as important as they should. Sad, but true? Thoughts?
    I don't think it will ever be taken seriously. Our names, addresses, social security numbers, DOBs, passwords, credit cards get leaked online daily by the millions. I doubt people will take a stand about phone security unless there is some ridiculous exploit...like receiving a specific text message bricks ANY android phone.
    06-10-2016 01:50 PM
  21. deesugar's Avatar
    What i'm telling you, literally, is that corporations exist to make money, not to make people like you happy. Customer satisfaction is only relevant to a corporation inasmuch as it directly affects that corporations bottom line. Keeping you happy the last 3 years didn't exactly open up the coffers down at the moto money bank did it?

    And I've owned and liked all 3 versions of the Moto X. My mind isn't made up about the Z yet. But I'm keeping an open mind until I can handle the phone and learn more.
    That is certainly your way of looking at it but most tech companies start quite the opposite way. They don't always have a clear plan on how to drive revenue and worry about that later. When companies get big and they have a board, members do become focused on bottom line and getting their next big house and/or yacht. But it really takes a balance of both to run a company right. And happy customers rarely hurt the bottom line but the opposite does.

    You should read this article that just came out and shows what happens when you ignore happiness in customers and employees in a company:
    United CEO Oscar Munoz: Board too isolated to see airline's slide

    "Jim Jackson, a United shareholder, said he stopped flying United five years ago because he was frustrated with bad customer service, especially by flight attendants. He now flies Delta and American, he said."


    P.S.
    stanleywinthrop, I doubt you run your own business like me and the people I know but we saw people with your attitude never succeed when they tried to start their own business.
    06-10-2016 01:53 PM
  22. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I am of the belief that until we have a major security incident or breach, not just a "scare", none of these manufacturers will take security as important as they should. Sad, but true? Thoughts?
    Public opinion can sway the big names into spending some money. A big part of the reason the GS7 gets them so early is becasue of all the complaints online, according to several of my contacts.

    Honestly, I think it will take a lawsuit or someone like Al Franken to get the government involved before anything changes on a large scale. I wish i felt differently, but most companies are just using Android becasue it's cheap and easy and will never spend money they don't have to spend.
    Ry and Aquila like this.
    06-10-2016 02:09 PM
  23. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    FromThe Huawei Nexus 6P review | Android Central: "It's the best Android phone I've ever used."
    When all is said and done, I still have that opinion. For everything it lacks, being able to have everything work properly every time I pick it up on any network makes up for it.
    Laura Knotek and Versed like this.
    06-10-2016 02:11 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    When all is said and done, I still have that opinion. For everything it lacks, being able to have everything work properly every time I pick it up on any network makes up for it.
    I regret getting the MXPE rather than waiting for the Nexus 6P. I had terrible customer service from Moto when my MXPE died after only 6 months. They were so inept that they sent me a brick (never removed Google account of original owner prior to doing FDR on refurb and sending it to me). I can understand ordinary users forgetting about FRP, but an Android OEM should know better!

    It took me 3 weeks to receive a usable device.

    They also mislead customers regarding shipping charges. They claim RMA shipping is free. Granted, it is not expensive, but FedEx did charge me both times (to send back my original defective device and the refurb brick).
    J Dubbs likes this.
    06-10-2016 02:14 PM
  25. cbreze's Avatar
    Any speculation as to how people will carry their mods around? Seems like more stuff at risk for drops. And how cases might work?
    J Dubbs likes this.
    06-10-2016 02:22 PM
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