[KeithLa]

Hello Moto, from an avid Moto Droid Maxx, DT2, and Z2F owner, who recently gave the Z3 a try, and am sticking with a used Z2F, even now in spring 2019:

You quite blew it on the Z3, please note the following for future Z line design...

1) Shattershield matters: Glass front/back phones are too heavy and fragile. Shattershield phones are the *perfect* weight and balance with protective covers (like the Verizon protector). Z3 is too heavy with a protector, or mod!

2) Front fingerprint sensor is much better than side: One Button Nav rocks with front, *physical* (not touchscreen) sensor, esp. for lock/unlock. Don't worry about cloning Samsung or iPhone bezel designs!! I challenge anyone to nav faster with touchscreen OBN and side sensor on Z3...not possible.

3) Show Me matters: "Hello Moto" is completely useless, duplicates Hey Google, pointlessly. "Show me <app>" very nicely complements Google Assistant, please add it back on Z4.

4) Front LED flash matters: My Z2F nighttime selfies are always far better than my iPhone 8 and X friends'! Brilliant for parties, clubs, night outdoor scenes. Don't give this up!

5) Mods don't matter: Sorry to say, what most of us love about the Z line is its performance, Moto actions/display, and thin and light *form factor*, not its Mods. There are no Mods that don't have better, cheaper standalone alternatives. Give up on Mods, but keep Shattershield size and weight!

[Rukbat]

We have no connection to Motorola (Lenovo), and I doubt that many of their employees read the forum (and that, not regularly). I suggest that you email their design department (or their CEO) directly.

[KeithLa]

Hi Rukbat, yes I realize this is not a Moto Forum, I'm a longtime user of this forum myself.

I will post this on Moto's forum too, but figured it might be of interest here, as well, to anyone thinking of purchasing a Z3.

[somnambulator]

1) Shattershield matters: Glass front/back phones are too heavy and fragile. Shattershield phones are the *perfect* weight and balance with protective covers (like the Verizon protector). Z3 is too heavy with a protector, or mod!

I appreciated the Z2 Force's shattershield, but it got pretty scratched up within just a few weeks. If they made 2 versions of the Z3 with all other specs the same besides plastic vs glass display I'd take glass. I've broken 1 phone display in the 12 years i've had a smart phone, but love the option of shatterproof.

2) Front fingerprint sensor is much better than side: One Button Nav rocks with front, *physical* (not touchscreen) sensor, esp. for lock/unlock. Don't worry about cloning Samsung or iPhone bezel designs!! I challenge anyone to nav faster with touchscreen OBN and side sensor on Z3...not possible.

The Z3's native gestures (disabled by default, have to be enabled in Moto app) are FANTASTIC. It's the best navigation i've ever experience on a mobile device. I do miss turning on the one with a quick tap of the front fingerprint reader, but absolutely do not miss the fingerprint gestures compared to the Z3's.

3) Show Me matters: "Hello Moto" is completely useless, duplicates Hey Google, pointlessly. "Show me <app>" very nicely complements Google Assistant, please add it back on Z4.

Not arguing here, but I do wish Hello Moto were better. I prefer to keep as much data away from Google as possible and don't use voice commands often, but when I do I want them to work. Bixby was likely very expensive for Samsung to create, and if it's 1/2 as good as OK Google I would happily use it instead.

4) Front LED flash matters: My Z2F nighttime selfies are always far better than my iPhone 8 and X friends'! Brilliant for parties, clubs, night outdoor scenes. Don't give this up!

Some of us don't care about selfies (gasp). I think I've taken 10 since front-mounted cameras became common, and all were with my GF/wife on a vacation because family requested photos.

5) Mods don't matter: Sorry to say, what most of us love about the Z line is its performance, Moto actions/display, and thin and light *form factor*, not its Mods. There are no Mods that don't have better, cheaper standalone alternatives. Give up on Mods, but keep Shattershield size and weight!

Half agree here. I love everything you mentioned about the Z line, but place the stock-ish android ROM near the top.

However I have a handful of mods. The Moto-branded battery mod is truly fantastic. The car dock mod is decent but the mounting system sucks. The concept of speaker mods is awesome, but execution sucked. Having to charge them separately from the phone is ridiculous. I even have the Hassleblad mod and the pictures/video are worse than a modern $100 point-and-click camera, but was $200 MSRP! (got mine on sale for like $50). Above all, though, was the pricing. If each mod were 1/2 its MSRP it would still be overpriced.

If the mod system disappears for the "z4" or whatever the next phone is THIS IS WHY.

FYI i get my phones through work, along with all the mods except the camera. I've purchased a new phone every year for probably 6 years, but the z3 is so awesome i won't mind holding onto it for a while longer if the z line of phones changes dramatically or if the mod ecosystem goes away.

[KeithLa]

Hi Somnambulator, thanks for your responses.

To clarify, you prefer Moto "One Button Nav" gestures on the Z3 touchscreen bar to those same functions on the Z2 physical sensor? What I noticed is that while I can very quickly and intuitively find the Z2 physical sensor by touch, barely even thinking about it, I had to visually look for the virtual bar on the Z3, which didn't have the same super fast, intuitive feel to me. But perhaps that's something you get used to.

Same holds for on/off using the Z2 front sensor, which feels much more versatile and fast, using either thumb or forefinger. Z3 side sensor is only a forefinger thing. Where I really noticed the impact of this change is when driving, so much easier to quickly (and more safely) unlock with the Z2 front sensor vs. Z3 side sensor, which was often blocked by my mount.

[Ry]

I went from Moto Z Force Droid to Moto Z2 Play to Moto Z4.

1) Shattershield matters: Glass front/back phones are too heavy and fragile. Shattershield phones are the *perfect* weight and balance with protective covers (like the Verizon protector). Z3 is too heavy with a protector, or mod!

It doesn't. Moto didn't move enough with Shattershield to make it matter.

2) Front fingerprint sensor is much better than side: One Button Nav rocks with front, *physical* (not touchscreen) sensor, esp. for lock/unlock. Don't worry about cloning Samsung or iPhone bezel designs!! I challenge anyone to nav faster with touchscreen OBN and side sensor on Z3...not possible.

No argument from me on FPS there. Front is always better. Over side. Over rear. Front is always better.

One Button Nav is just as good on an all-screen phone though.

4) Front LED flash matters: My Z2F nighttime selfies are always far better than my iPhone 8 and X friends'! Brilliant for parties, clubs, night outdoor scenes. Don't give this up!

No arguments there.

5) Mods don't matter: Sorry to say, what most of us love about the Z line is its performance, Moto actions/display, and thin and light *form factor*, not its Mods. There are no Mods that don't have better, cheaper standalone alternatives. Give up on Mods, but keep Shattershield size and weight!

Moto Mods are what make the Moto Z a Moto Z. Sounds like you want a Shattershield Moto X....

[KeithLa]

Re: Shattershield, I meant it matters (to me, at least) as physical protection that really works.


Re: me wanting an X vs. Z, not true, since I still want Z performance and thin/light form factor, which again, I feel is ideal paired with a lightweight case. (I love the black textured kickstand kind.)

[Ry]

Re: Shattershield, I meant it matters (to me, at least) as physical protection that really works.


Re: me wanting an X vs. Z, not true, since I still want Z performance and thin/light form factor, which again, I feel is ideal paired with a lightweight case. (I love the black textured kickstand kind.)

It's more of what the masses want though. As a Z Force Droid owner, it was silly needing to put a screen protector on my phone just so the plastic wouldn't scratch up going in and out of my pocket. In addition to cost-cutting, ShatterShield didn't do enough to continue on in the Z3 and Z4.

Z performance? Z3 used a "non-current/non-flagship" processor and the Z4 solidified it's place in the midrange.

[KeithLa]

It's more of what the masses want though. As a Z Force Droid owner, it was silly needing to put a screen protector on my phone just so the plastic wouldn't scratch up going in and out of my pocket. In addition to cost-cutting, ShatterShield didn't do enough to continue on in the Z3 and Z4.

Do you really not get scratches on your unprotected Moto Z2 and Z4 glass screens? I've never had even Gorilla glass screens that didn't get faint scratches and haze without protection.

Z performance? Z3 used a "non-current/non-flagship" processor and the Z4 solidified it's place in the midrange.

Which I think brings us full circle back to my original sentiment regarding why I'm not upgrading from Z2 Force to Z3 or Z4. Not being faster, more durable, lighter, better camera, or easier to use, they offer no clear advantages to me.

[Ry]

Do you really not get scratches on your unprotected Moto Z2 and Z4 glass screens? I've never had even Gorilla glass screens that didn't get faint scratches and haze without protection.

Nope.

Which I think brings us full circle back to my original sentiment regarding why I'm not upgrading from Z2 Force to Z3 or Z4. Not being faster, more durable, lighter, better camera, or easier to use, they offer no clear advantages to me.

I challenge you on Z2 Force images being better than Z4.

And in terms of performance, I believe the Snapdragon 675 and Snapdragon 835 are pretty even in terms of performance.

[KeithLa]

I challenge you on Z2 Force images being better than Z4.

Fair enough, I haven't compared, but doubt they're much different in daylight, where Z2 does fine. Z4 likely better in low light, but again, it lost front LED flash which works brilliantly on Z2, and I'm more apt to take low light group selfies (restaurants, parties, etc.) in low light than regular rear-lens photos.

Now, there's yet another potential regression on Z4 camera, if I understand user and review complaints I've read that Portrait mode now requires face detection, so it's no longer possible to do blurred background shots of objects. Is this true? Nearly all my Portrait mode photos are food, flowers, etc.

I believe the Snapdragon 675 and Snapdragon 835 are pretty even in terms of performance.

Perhaps so on Z4, but Z3 benchmarks were clearly worse vs. Z2 Force.

[KeithLa]

Also, back on Shattershield: If glass screen is preferable, why not make the phone shatterproof, and ship it with a replaceable tempered glass screen protector?

[Ry]

Also, back on Shattershield: If glass screen is preferable, why not make the phone shatterproof, and ship it with a replaceable tempered glass screen protector?

I don't know. My point is that ShatterShield didn't move significant units. Cost maybe? Motorola is finally turning a profit since being bought by Lenovo (mostly thanks to G and E).

[KeithLa]

Samsung is just hard to compete with on the flagship tier, through marketing. I don't understand why people so easily spend so crazy much for Samsung phones though, same with iPhones. Business expensed, in many cases? With exception of low light camera performance, Moto Z2 exceeded other brand flagships in multiple ways.

[Ry]

Samsung is just hard to compete with on the flagship tier, through marketing. I don't understand why people so easily spend so crazy much for Samsung phones though, same with iPhones. Business expensed, in many cases? With exception of low light camera performance, Moto Z2 exceeded other brand flagships in multiple ways.

Could you elaborate more on those multiple ways?

It seems like cameras matter to most folks which is one of the key talking marketing points that the Galaxy S, iPhone, and Pixel compete on.

ShatterShield solved a problem that most iPhone owners could get fixed within an hour with a scratch-prone screen.

iPhone and Galaxy have healthy third-party accessory ecosystems while few companies jumped on Moto Mods.

Unless you had Play variants, significant battery life advantages didn't exist.