12-08-2014 09:59 AM
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  1. Zachtheowl's Avatar
    If you want to hear a worst case scenario with verizon employees and new hardware defects, here you go. Kudos if you read the whole thing, I don't expect most people to...unless you're one of those people with a faulty battery/camera flash/screen/speaker. Then, enjoy.

    What follows is a true story.

    Thursday 10/30/2014 12pm – Purchase Droid Turbo #1
    – Went to Verizon Store and worked with sales associate John to purchase my new droid turbo. I traded in my OG droid razr maxx for $100 rebate, and then John tried to “sell” me a wireless charger for the device by saying he could waive my upgrade fee to apply towards the product. Having already read about the promotion for waived upgrade fees, and knowing it is not only applicable towards products in store (as John was insinuating) I declined, feeling decidedly like John was trying to take advantage of me and the lack of knowledge I may have about current Verizon promotions.

    Friday 10/31/2014 –Full Day with Droid Turbo #1
    Used Turbo Unit 1 for 24 hrs, after charging to full. My battery drained unusually fast, so that I was getting less than 20 hours on the battery. I took screenshots of my battery reports during two full discharges to demonstrate to reps that the battery was in fact underperforming, knowing that evidence would be useful because it is hard to just look at a phone and tell it has a battery issues.

    Saturday 11/1/2014 – Return Turbo #1 for Turbo #2
    11am- Returned to Verizon store. I worked with sales associate “Ross” and brought my concerns to his attention. He also frequently made furtive trips to have whispered discussions with Andre, who I assume is his manager, throughout our conversation about my wanting a replacement unit. They did a “test” on my phone in which they just opened up a call and let it sit for 15 minutes, then said “oh it looks like it drained normally.” As if they know, on a phone that is literally 2 days old. I could tell they were bullsh*tting me, they had no interest in looking at the battery data I had saved on the phone demonstrating the VERY fast discharge, and when I expressed my displeasure, Ross again went and had another whispered conversation with Andre, and he came back and said “we want to help you out….” He proceeded to tell me that they would replace the unit for me. He then went into the back and came out with a box in one hand and another Droid Turbo unit in his other hand—I never saw him take it out of the box. He switched my sim card into the unit he brought from the back, and said I had to keep my current box/etc and did not give me the matching box with the unit. Here is the first time I have a unit that doesn’t match my box/IMEI number information. This is despite me requesting the box to keep the serial numbers consistent.
    Saturday 11/1/2014 – Later that Day with Turbo #2
    When I get Droid Turbo #2 home and start using it that evening in low light conditions, I see that there is a noticeable change in color from the top left to the bottom right of the screen. It was evident in multiple apps, and although subtle, is very apparent when you utilize a graphic designed to test color and brightness consistency on a display. (I used Display Test app, “viewing angle graphic” which demonstrated clearly the screen was not uniform.) I make plans to go in on Sunday and have it exchanged for a unit with consistent color reproduction.


    Sunday 11/2/2014 – 11am. – Returning Turbo #2 for Turbo #3
    I return to Verizon for the 3rd time in 4 days. At this point, I am feeling decidedly emotionally raw from my previous experiences in which I felt that employees had ZERO interest in what I had to say or show them. I explain that I’m here to have my device replaced because the screen color is not uniform. They immediately get General manager Steven S. to deal with me, and after taking a cursory glance at my unit underneath glaring overhead can lights at the front desk (where you can hardly see the screen anyways) tells me “He doesn’t see a problem.” I am detecting barely contained hostility at this point—I feel that the employees have labeled me as a “problem” to be dealt with. Another employee, Matthew, hovers nearby the entire time I’m dealing with Steven, making me feel even more ganged up on and adding non-helpful comments from time to time. At this point they have made no effort to get any information from me. I needed to tell them that the flaw is visible in dim light, when the screen brightness is turned down lower, and how you can see it in certain apps, etc, but they took a defensive posture from the beginning as though they had already decided I was wrong.
    After nearly 90 minutes standing at the counter arguing in front of MANY CUSTOMERS IN THE STORE, that there was a flaw that CAN BE PERCEIVED, I plead for them to just LOOK more closely at what I’m trying to show them. I am at my wit’s end at this point, ready to cancel my contract.
    Steven S. finally goes to get a magnifying instrument resembling a jeweler’s loupe, and looks at the test graphic that clearly shows the non-uniform screen through it. HE AGREES THAT HE CAN SEE THAT THERE IS A NON-UNIFORMITY IN THE COLOR REPRODUCTION ON THE SCREEN!!! This is an important point, because later on I am told that “there was no defect found on the units I returned” by Solutions manager Jeff.
    Steve S. agrees to replace the unit as defective and tells me Matthew will get my replacement. Matthew then goes into the back and does not emerge for nearly ten minutes. Just to get my unit from the shelf? When he comes out of the back, again, he is holding another turbo unit in one hand, and the box it may or may not have come out of in the other. Like Ross did for my last replacement, Matthew swaps my sim card into the other unit, but does not give me the new box despite my asking to exchange, again, to keep serial numbers consistent.

    At this point they could have given me back the unit I had returned the day before and I would not be any wiser. I’m feeling more and more uncomfortable about the lack of transparency in this process, and the way employees at this store are handling my complaints and concerns in general.
    I leave the store, vowing never to return and completely emotionally traumatized and exhausted from the process.

    When I get home that evening…
    …and start to use my Droid Turbo #3….the flash starts to malfunction. At first it just misses timing on a photo every third or so, making photos oddly red and dark. Then, it’s giving an odd “half flash” instead of a fully bright flash occasionally. Solutions Manager Jeff G, sent me text message following up on my customer experience. I responded:
    (Mon, 11:31 AM) “the camera flash has been wonky on two occasions, like it isn’t timed right with the shutter..I’ll wait and see how it works out.” He does not respond.

    Sunday 11/3 and Monday 11/4 – Turbo #3 Flash Not working at all, periodically.
    As I’m testing the camera over Sunday night and Monday morning, the flash stops working completely on three different occasions. Even when set to “always on” the flash has just stopped turning on. It gives a weak “half flash” the first time you try after it’s been sitting a while, then just never turns on again. This happens on and off as I test the camera in various lighting situations. Clearly a malfunction, by any definition.
    Again, I text Solutions manager Jeff G:
    (Mon 6:49pm) “Hahah crud. My flash no longer works at all. Apparently it wasn’t going to be ok.”
    Jeff G responds:
    (Mon 7:06pm) “At this point, any manufacture defects needs to go through Motorola directly. We have exchanged 2 devices already for this line we will not be able to exchange out a 3rd device for the same model. If you are still unhappy with this device we can exchange it for a different model phone and we will waive the $35 restocking fee, however, if you feel this is just a manufacture defect you can reach out to Motorola at 800.734.5870 or http://www.motorola.com”.

    So according to the Solutions manager , there is a 3 unit limit per customer on models of the same device, despite experiencing manufacturers defects that employees admitted were in fact manufacturer defects?

    I respond:
    (Mon 7:06pm) “ I didn’t realize there was a limit on manufacturer defects! What would you recommend? Is a non working flash on a phone that has taken less than 50 pictures a manufacturer defect or a feature of the droid turbo? Because I’d love to have your answer on record.”

    Jeff G responds:
    (Mon 7:13pm) “After reviewing the devices exchanged the manufacture defects that were reported are not currently listed as defects by Motorola as a result the devices exchanged were done as a courtesy as a Verizon customer. Future defects should be reported to Motorola. Again if you are unhappy with this phone we are willing to make a final exception to waive the restocking fee to exchange the device for a different model.”

    So, at this point I am insulted and offended. First of all, the devices I returned were not exchanged as a “courtesy”—I had demonstrated and provided evidence, BEYOND WHAT SHOULD EVER HAVE BEEN NECESSARY OF A CUSTOMER YOU WANT TO BE COURTIOUS TO, that each of the devices I exchanged were not performing as advertised. Secondly, he is flat our refusing to honor Motorola’s manufacturer’s warranty, despite the fact that I have had the unit for less than 24 hours and it is in PRISTINE condition.
    Can a Verizon employee (Jeff) arbitrarily and retroactively change the terms of your exchange of a defective device? Verizon is contractually obligated to provide you with a device that functions as described, but instead Jeff is saying “basically, we took care of you because you whined about it hard enough.” This is despite the verbal attestation of multiple employees at the location that the defects were indeed noted at my time of exchange.

    Tuesdsay, 11/4/2014 – I call Motorola. (Case # XXX-XXXXX)

    I take Jeff’s advice and call Motorola- I still want a functioning Droid Turbo. Talk to Tech support about flash issue, they agree to send a replacement unit no problem. They ask me for the IMEI number. This is where the problems created by the employees at the Verizon Store Maple Village come to the surface.
    I give Motorola my IMEI on the box (XXXXXXXXXXXXX) —but it doesn’t match my device info in their computers. (Remember how they would not give me the matching boxes with my exchanged devices?)
    So we investigate further. Motorola tech has me dial a number that gives me Droid Turbo #3’s internal number. (IMEI: XXXXXXXXXXXXX) I get put on hold…and apparently escalated to Tier 2 tech support because the number I gave them isn’t matching the numbers they should have in their system. Fraud alarm bells have gone off, something about what he saw in the info attached to the IMEE# of my device.
    Motorola tells me that the Verizon employees have done something wrong, and perhaps even illegal, in processing my exchanges. He says that I need to return to the store and request a replacement unit, with the matching box, serial numbers, parts, etc. This effects my warranty, and apparently could be related to illegal practices behind the scenes at this particular Verizon store? He’s vague about the details, but says they need to escalate it. He gives me a case number and says I’ll be contacted within 48 hours during the investigation.

    In Summary:
    I don’t know what to say at this point. I demand as many replacement Droid Turbo models as is necessary until I receive a unit that functions as designed and advertised, without defect or flaw, and not as a “courtesy as a Verizon customer,” but as a “fulfilment of the contractual obligation Verizon has to its customers.” This does not seem to be an unreasonable request, given that I am paying for a product and service.




    Update As of Time of Publishing: My camera flash has not malfunctioned again in 24 hours. First time power cycle hiccups? Software issues? Who knows.
    Ggoblue likes this.
    11-04-2014 05:36 PM
  2. recDNA's Avatar
    Sojnds like LG has ruined Motorola. VZW always sucked.
    11-04-2014 05:44 PM
  3. camachinist's Avatar
    Ha, seen that kind of ping-pong on a $100K travel trailer recently. Interesting how business works these days.

    Myself, if I had gone through that gauntlet, I'd take a 35.00 hit on a return, cancel the contract for cause, and move my business to another provider. No sense in rewarding that kind of business style with hard earned cash. I say that as a consistent VZW customer since 1998.
    Aquila likes this.
    11-04-2014 05:51 PM
  4. Almeuit's Avatar
    I read the whole thing and just wow... I don't even know... I'd honestly never use that Verizon store again though. Except for having to get the exchanged device... After that never again.
    Aquila likes this.
    11-04-2014 05:52 PM
  5. Zachtheowl's Avatar
    I read the whole thing and just wow... I don't even know... I'd honestly never use that Verizon store again though. Except for having to get the exchanged device... After that never again.
    I see you have a note 4, that's the top of my list for replacing the turbo. My only concerns are using it in the rain and if it fits in my front pockets. :-P
    LegalAmerican likes this.
    11-04-2014 06:52 PM
  6. Nreeldeep's Avatar
    List 5 things YOU did wrong in your visits to the store that might have turned the odds in your favor had you made different choices. Few transactions between customer and rep are purely one sided. Perhaps you gave negative energy. This is evidenced by the negative language you used to describe the actions of the staff from the very beginning of your story. If interviewed, I wonder how the staff might characterize YOUR behavior and language.
    theoretically and agentelrond like this.
    11-04-2014 09:45 PM
  7. Zachtheowl's Avatar
    List 5 things YOU did wrong in your visits to the store that might have turned the odds in your favor had you made different choices. Few transactions between customer and rep are purely one sided. Perhaps you gave negative energy. This is evidenced by the negative language you used to describe the actions of the staff from the very beginning of your story. If interviewed, I wonder how the staff might characterize YOUR behavior and language.
    I am sure I gave off negative energy as soon as I was forced to argue for an employee of vzw to meet contractual obligations of the company to customers. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, they gave me grief. They also violated policy and potentially defrauded motorolla and me. So frankly I really don't care if they found my attitude negative, when I am not getting what I pay for.
    11-04-2014 10:37 PM
  8. camachinist's Avatar
    I ran into similar 'corporate speak' at a plastics vendor for my business and simply walked out on them and fired them. I was shocked that they'd f*ck with a good customer like that. They did, once. Business is brutal. Customers are hard to come by. Take care of them.
    11-04-2014 10:53 PM
  9. jfoofoo's Avatar
    WOW! I guess sometimes it does matter on which rep you get. I had some minor issue with the nylon fraying on the turbo and went back to where I purchased it, expecting an exchange. The store manager told me the fraying around the camera is consider "damage" to the phone, since I did not have a case on and it's not a defect because no one else had report this issue. I simply told her if this phone can not withstand being pull in and out of my pocket for 2 days without falling apart, I would consider this a defect... of course she disagree. Knowing I am not going to get anywhere with her, I took the phone to another store near by work and showed it to the rep. They were happy to to make the exchange and even offer me the screen protector for free since I had one on my previous phone. No hassle and no questions were asked, I shook the guy's hand when I left and thanked him for making this so easy. He simply said if he had drop almost $700 on a phone, he expects everything to be perfect and would not take anything less. So there are good reasonable Verizon reps out there, we just hear more about the bad ones, cause those are the one we post on the forum about.
    11-04-2014 10:53 PM
  10. -Myk-'s Avatar
    If they tried that with me I would ask them, If you bought a new car and the paint started falling off after 2 days would you bring it back to get a new one? What would you say if the dealer told you NO because you didn't put on an after market clear coat or use some thing to protect the paint?

    I believe that would get them to think a bit differently.
    11-04-2014 11:09 PM
  11. pchain's Avatar
    Was the Verizon store a corporate store or was it a Verizon dealership? If I go to Verizon I make sure it's a corporate store. I've had some questionable things happen with dealerships.
    buster buddy likes this.
    11-05-2014 02:26 AM
  12. beeztrain's Avatar
    Lg ruined motorola? You mean lenovo?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Andrew Malone and Brad Steele like this.
    11-05-2014 06:50 AM
  13. linebusy's Avatar
    Was the Verizon store a corporate store or was it a Verizon dealership? If I go to Verizon I make sure it's a corporate store. I've had some questionable things happen with dealerships.
    That was my first question.... is this an "authorized reseller" or is it a corporate store?

    Not to knock the established businesses out there, but if I'm going to buy anything from Verizon, it'll be direct.
    If I strike out at the store, I'll call customer service and escalate the issue.

    The box deal is curious.... it also has me wondering if it's a reseller who's trying to maximize his inventory, which is where the issue with Verizon may arise. If there's returned product at a corporate store, it's going back to Verizon to be re-sold as refurbished.... there's no motive to re-distribute a returned product. (That's my guess.... I could be wrong.)
    11-05-2014 07:04 AM
  14. BlueLions81's Avatar
    Go to a different verizon store. Different stores do things differently.

    The last time I bought my phone I ended up having to go to a different store. The store I normally went to wanted to charge me regular price for the phone, but it had dropped in price. I left and decided to try another verizon. The other verizon had the price drop on the phone so I purchased it from them.
    11-05-2014 08:11 AM
  15. BlueBlazer60's Avatar
    WOW! I guess sometimes it does matter on which rep you get. I had some minor issue with the nylon fraying on the turbo and went back to where I purchased it, expecting an exchange. The store manager told me the fraying around the camera is consider "damage" to the phone, since I did not have a case on and it's not a defect because no one else had report this issue. I simply told her if this phone can not withstand being pull in and out of my pocket for 2 days without falling apart, I would consider this a defect... of course she disagree. Knowing I am not going to get anywhere with her, I took the phone to another store near by work and showed it to the rep. They were happy to to make the exchange and even offer me the screen protector for free since I had one on my previous phone. No hassle and no questions were asked, I shook the guy's hand when I left and thanked him for making this so easy. He simply said if he had drop almost $700 on a phone, he expects everything to be perfect and would not take anything less. So there are good reasonable Verizon reps out there, we just hear more about the bad ones, cause those are the one we post on the forum about.
    I have had both extremes. Maybe we need to start - for the good ones only - giving a little praise. Tell your friends and Verizon. Directing store traffic to reps who have treated us well. No one is going to sue you for saying they did a good job.

    I realize just because you had a good experience doesn't mean I will. But it might increase the odds a little in our favor. Tell me your store rep is any where close to Joe's level and I will drive across several states to shop.

    If we start telling Verizon about their good employees, I can dream they will get better at hiring.
    11-05-2014 09:23 AM
  16. steveh552's Avatar
    I read the whole post. I wonder if there is some over embellishing here, I mean how was it a traumatic experience? Your words lead me to wonder here
    11-05-2014 10:14 AM
  17. flackberry's Avatar
    If I were in your shoes I would not step one foot back in the store and proceed to call VZW customer service. Say "cancel service" at the prompts and speak with the retention dept. Sounds like your only other option is to go back to the store and take them up on their something else option. I have low tolerance for bad customer service so I would also file a complaint on the store as well.
    11-05-2014 10:42 AM
  18. MA2GA28's Avatar
    Sounds like a bad experience, yes, but as others have said you do have the option of going to another store.

    This definitely sounds like the work of an authorized reseller. They most likely have limited Turbo inventory, and instead of giving you a new replacement they are faking it being new and giving you other returned models. Thus why Moto is investigating as that is actually an illegal act and most likely against the Verizon and Moto agreement.

    I'd recommend either going to a corporate store or call VZ customer service to at least report the incident. Get the store number you dealt with as well and give it to Verizon to document.
    pchain likes this.
    11-05-2014 11:42 AM
  19. Xelios's Avatar
    That sounds horrible man, that sucks to hear.

    I went to a non-corporate store and they gave me no issues about turning one in for a replacement. But I'm starting to feel your pain though, my 2nd Turbo has its own set of issues and it's starting to become frustrating. If the third one doesn't pan out for me, I don't think I can deal with going for another.
    11-05-2014 12:06 PM
  20. rlb81's Avatar
    Better call Saul! The narrative sounds like a setup for an ambulance chaser style lawsuit. I don't doubt that you have problems, but it seems like you might not be helping yourself either. Right out of the gate you're pretty much bashing the rep. At the end of the day they're sales guys, they're going to try to sell you something.

    Edit: Not trying to be harsh or bash you, my apologies if it comes off that way. I'd be pissed too if I felt like I was getting the **** end of a deal. It just seems that (based on your first paragraph) there's a possibility you went in there with guns blazing before the first transaction. If that's the case (or how you were perceived) that could have set up some of the troubles that followed. I say this as someone who has done that many times in the past. And sometimes I still need to fight myself really hard to prevent that, despite having much better results when I go in and remain level headed 100%./

    I am curious to see how the potential fraud thing turned out.
    11-05-2014 12:25 PM
  21. Robisan's Avatar
    The OP has a perfect right to go ape about being given exchange phones that don't match the box. If it were me I absolutely would not have accepted that and would have escalated to the store manager -- and up from there if necessary. The owner of the phone - the person paying for it -- has a right to possession of everything purchased, including the exact box that matches the phone. As we saw in the OP, that matters for warranty purposes.
    11-05-2014 12:55 PM
  22. Almeuit's Avatar
    The OP has a perfect right to go ape about being given exchange phones that don't match the box. If it were me I absolutely would not have accepted that and would have escalated to the store manager -- and up from there if necessary. The owner of the phone - the person paying for it -- has a right to possession of everything purchased, including the exact box that matches the phone. As we saw in the OP, that matters for warranty purposes.
    I have to admit I would have done something similar to this extent -- I would not have left that store without the proper box and everything just like I did when I bought the phone -- There is NO reason to not have the box it came with.
    Ry likes this.
    11-05-2014 01:47 PM
  23. Xelios's Avatar
    If they tried that with me I would ask them, If you bought a new car and the paint started falling off after 2 days would you bring it back to get a new one? What would you say if the dealer told you NO because you didn't put on an after market clear coat or use some thing to protect the paint?

    I believe that would get them to think a bit differently.
    Thank you. I used this today when I went to Verizon, and it shut them up. I'm glad I read this thread before going, apparently Verizon stores know about the fraying nylon and are refusing to replace it for that defect alone. Certainly grabbed the attention of other customers around me too, can't bull**** your way through that.
    11-05-2014 02:08 PM
  24. hal1's Avatar
    I know it can be hard to play nice, but making a scene in front of other customers is not going to win you any friends with Verizon and the other customers will just think ill of you.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-05-2014 02:36 PM
  25. Xelios's Avatar
    You know, I'm not one to make a scene normally, but at some point it's the only way you'll get help. In my case, here we have Motorola making phones with defective back pieces such as the fraying nylon, and Verizon selling them without taking responsibility. I get that they're just doing their jobs, but you gotta look after yourself too. I just paid 265 dollars for a phone. First one had a damaged screen, second one had a peeling backplate and poor battery life. Why should I suffer because someone else screwed up? Playing nice with them only gets you so far. Especially since the fraying nylon is so well known that the Verizon stores are being told not to replace them. It's just poor build quality at that point and shady business tactics.
    11-05-2014 02:58 PM
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