06-13-2016 02:18 PM
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  1. chaseweadock's Avatar
    the last couple nexus haven't even been aosp and its been fine. the features are actually better than aosp and not anywhere close to bloatware.
    06-11-2016 09:08 AM
  2. epic_user's Avatar
    This is a foolish comment. With this line of thinking the calender and clock apps are bloatware. I got an idea. Lets sell phones with no UI on them and let you log in with ADB and pick and choose each and every piece of software you want. There is a difference between loading software that pushs functionality, and loading software purely for your own motives to drive a sales channel. The Direct TV app that is intrusive on ATT is a great example of that.
    Let's not start name-calling. The difference you mention is completely subjective and your sarcasm again ignores the point that the applications that Google has loaded (which I listed) are in no way fundamental to the basic operation of the phone, yet were non-uninstallable by the user. If the user does not want or need the app (and in fact may have wish to install a competing app for the same service), then the fact that these apps remain taking up space on the phone even though they are not wanted or needed and were never requested by the user is precisely what makes them bloat. If Google had made these uninstallable by the user then even though they are pre-loaded, they would not be considered bloat. You cannot just arbitrarily decide that one vender's pre-installed, non-uninstallable app is bloatware and another's which you happen to like is not.
    06-11-2016 04:14 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Let's not start name-calling. The difference you mention is completely subjective and your sarcasm again ignores the point that the applications that Google has loaded (which I listed) are in no way fundamental to the basic operation of the phone, yet were non-uninstallable by the user. If the user does not want or need the app (and in fact may have wish to install a competing app for the same service), then the fact that these apps remain taking up space on the phone even though they are not wanted or needed and were never requested by the user is precisely what makes them bloat. If Google had made these uninstallable by the user then even though they are pre-loaded, they would not be considered bloat. You cannot just arbitrarily decide that one vender's pre-installed, non-uninstallable app is bloatware and another's which you happen to like is not.
    To be fair, with the way that preinstalled apps are implemented, uninstalling them doesn't give the user more space because they're loaded separately from the user accessible partition.
    06-11-2016 05:29 PM
  4. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Last fall, when I wrote this Your new phone will have less Google bloatware, and that's awesome | Android Central I had gotten a peek at the new (and confidential) Google 'Mobile Application Distribution Agreement' that partners need to follow if they want to use Google Play.

    There's nothing left in it that isn't absolutely required in order to use Google Play and be compatible with all the current APIs.

    You can make a list of all the Google things you think are unnecessary bloat, and if any item on your list is still in the agreement, you are wrong.

    Because Google has to work around crappy OEM's who only update the expensive phones they sell (cough SAMSUNG) they bundle as much functionality as they can into their own apps. That means they require those apps to be installed so the Play Store — and all the apps in it that are targeted for your specific platform — work. I'll bet most folks have no idea that Google Maps is required on your phone if you want to install a third-party SMS app from Google Play, but it is.

    They've also removed as much from some apps as they can — like Google Newsstand or Google+ — and baked it into Play Services. Subsequently, those apps (and several others) are no longer required. I'm sure Google is working on breaking out even more functions, because they also want things to be less monolithic and have EVERYTHING able to be updated individually from the Play Store, because they know Samsung will never send an update for a $120 phone sold in India or Brazil. The same goes for LG, or any of the other thousands of Android OEM's you've never heard of.

    I hope the EU lawsuit forces Google to remove all their apps from the agreement for phones sold in the EU, so we can have fun seeing the rush to download them (and the obligatory complaints and nerdrage) in order to make other apps work.
    VigneshB likes this.
    06-11-2016 05:40 PM
  5. hallux's Avatar
    Let's not start name-calling. The difference you mention is completely subjective and your sarcasm again ignores the point that the applications that Google has loaded (which I listed) are in no way fundamental to the basic operation of the phone, yet were non-uninstallable by the user. If the user does not want or need the app (and in fact may have wish to install a competing app for the same service), then the fact that these apps remain taking up space on the phone even though they are not wanted or needed and were never requested by the user is precisely what makes them bloat. If Google had made these uninstallable by the user then even though they are pre-loaded, they would not be considered bloat. You cannot just arbitrarily decide that one vender's pre-installed, non-uninstallable app is bloatware and another's which you happen to like is not.
    Do you take offense to Apple making their mail, contacts, calendar, iTunes, etc apps non-uninstallable on the iPhone? How about requiring that you can ONLY install apps from their app market? If you want access to their app store, you have to play by their rules. Of course, those rules also say that you need to buy their hardware to swim in that pool.

    The same goes for Google. At least with Android phones you can use an alternative source for apps (Amazon) without even rooting or hacking. Samsung devices come with a Samsung market, or they used to, but it doesn't have nearly as many apps available as the Google one.

    As far as the NEXUS DEVICES go, they're Google's devices, I would expect that the Google apps are there on first boot up. I'd even go so far as to say that if someone buys one and doesn't care for the Google apps being there, they likely bought the Nexus BECAUSE it can be easily boot-loader unlocked, rooted or an alternate image flashed without the Google apps.
    anon(5506951) and Aquila like this.
    06-11-2016 06:13 PM
  6. GSDer's Avatar
    I'll bet most folks have no idea that Google Maps is required on your phone if you want to install a third-party SMS app from Google Play, but it is.
    I had no idea, and that seems like a stupid requirement. If they said that some underlying communication service or the default Google keyboard had to be present for a 3rd party SMS application to work that might make sense; putting a requirement out there that some completely unrelated app must be present is ludicrous: if there's really functionality in Google Maps that underpins the OS then it should be broken out of Maps and put in a required service layer.

    Perhaps you could do an article on AC that lists some of this lesser known information?
    Jerry Hildenbrand likes this.
    06-12-2016 04:27 PM
  7. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I had no idea, and that seems like a stupid requirement. If they said that some underlying communication service or the default Google keyboard had to be present for a 3rd party SMS application to work that might make sense; putting a requirement out there that some completely unrelated app must be present is ludicrous: if there's really functionality in Google Maps that underpins the OS then it should be broken out of Maps and put in a required service layer.

    Perhaps you could do an article on AC that lists some of this lesser known information?
    SMS requires local location services. Location services require Play Services and Google Maps, or something else done by the people who made your phone so that they don't need those services and features. It's not hard to do that "something else" but apps using the standard APIs and in the play store expect it done a certain way.

    They are working on ways to break out more things into separate updates via Google Play. But it all needs done intelligently and in a way that works back to 4.4.xxx so it takes time.

    As for the article, that's difficult. All this is based on documents that aren't publicly available and subject to change at any time. Hopefully Google also becomes less secretive abut this as time goes by, but I'm not holding my breath.

    When the EU case ramps up we'll probably get a good look at the very latest versions of the documents. When we do, I plan on taking a good look at them in a blog post.
    06-12-2016 05:40 PM
  8. mavrrick's Avatar
    Let's not start name-calling. The difference you mention is completely subjective and your sarcasm again ignores the point that the applications that Google has loaded (which I listed) are in no way fundamental to the basic operation of the phone, yet were non-uninstallable by the user. If the user does not want or need the app (and in fact may have wish to install a competing app for the same service), then the fact that these apps remain taking up space on the phone even though they are not wanted or needed and were never requested by the user is precisely what makes them bloat. If Google had made these uninstallable by the user then even though they are pre-loaded, they would not be considered bloat. You cannot just arbitrarily decide that one vender's pre-installed, non-uninstallable app is bloatware and another's which you happen to like is not.
    I suggest you re-read my post. There was no name calling as you suggest, I was just calling out your comment for what it is. The point I was trying to get across is that there has to be a benchmark for some level of software on the phone. They have a good reason to try to ensure a level of satisfaction with the platform. One way of doing that is by trying to create a minimum level of software functionality which is what it sounds like to me they are doing.
    06-13-2016 02:10 PM
  9. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I got an idea. Lets sell phones with no UI on them and let you log in with ADB and pick and choose each and every piece of software you want.
    Google Arch Nexus?
    06-13-2016 02:18 PM
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