11-17-2019 10:17 AM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Here's a much more simple way to look at. If you wanted to buy a Samsung TV you could go to Best Buy or to Costco and get the same TV for the same price. Both offer different return policies and both will be willing to sell you a extended warranty through whatever program they use. If you buy from Best Buy and decline the SquareTrade coverage, then any issues that you encounter that are warranty related you would handle by dealing with Samsung directly because Samsung is the manufacturer of that device. You would probably not go into Costco and demand that Costco honor the square trade policies that Best Buy offered, witch you declined, because in the relationship of you and Best Buy and Samsung Costco has nothing to do with it. In that case they just happened to be another retail location that also happens to sell the same thing.

    The scenario above is the same situation as your issue. If you bought a Huawei phone from Huawei or Best Buy or from a carrier in Canada or anywhere that's not Google, then Google just happens to be a different place that sells the same phone you bought from someone else and they are Costco in the example. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the warranty of device that they didn't sell because their contract with the manufacturer says that they cannot get involved in that process. So with the example above Google is Costco Best Buy is whoever you happen to buy your 6p from and Samsung is Huawei. The relationships exist in the exact same way.
    11-03-2017 02:28 PM
  2. 12321's Avatar
    Here's a much more simple way to look at. If you wanted to buy a Samsung TV you could go to Best Buy or to Costco and get the same TV for the same price. Both offer different return policies and both will be willing to sell you a extended warranty through whatever program they use. If you buy from Best Buy and decline the SquareTrade coverage, then any issues that you encounter that are warranty related you would handle by dealing with Samsung directly because Samsung is the manufacturer of that device. You would probably not go into Costco and demand that Costco honor the square trade policies that Best Buy offered, witch you declined, because in the relationship of you and Best Buy and Samsung Costco has nothing to do with it. In that case they just happened to be another retail location that also happens to sell the same thing.

    The scenario above is the same situation as your issue. If you bought a Huawei phone from Huawei or Best Buy or from a carrier in Canada or anywhere that's not Google, then Google just happens to be a different place that sells the same phone you bought from someone else and they are Costco in the example. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the warranty of device that they didn't sell because their contract with the manufacturer says that they cannot get involved in that process. So with the example above Google is Costco Best Buy is whoever you happen to buy your 6p from and Samsung is Huawei. The relationships exist in the exact same way.
    Google is not just a different place that sells the phone... it's Google's phone. It's the Google Nexus 6P.

    For your example to be valid it would have to be Best Buy's TV or Costco's TV (e.g. Best Buy Model XYZ TV). It's not. It's a Samsung TV.

    Further, I got this reply from you in my email, which differs from what you wrote above??

    Dear 12321,

    Aquila has quoted you!

    -----------

    HTC and LG are not the manufacturers they are the contracted factories where the devices are produced. In the pixel relationship the role of HTC and LG is the same of that as Foxconn to Apple. Foxconn is not the manufacturer, apple is. The relationship is identical and therefore HTC and LG have a roll of putting the devices together on behalf of Google who owns the devices Cradle to grave. This is different from the Nexus relationship in which Google was partnering with a manufacturer who would Supply Hardware to meet with Google software to create a joint device that was owned cradle-to-grave by the manufacturer. In your case that is Huawei. There was one exception to that relationship with the Nexus devices which was that if Google sold the device the manufacturer would allow Google to provide warranty support for the device. That part of the contract does not transfer ownership of the device what it does is allow Google to provide better customer service for its own store customers.

    There are no excuses being made in anything I said, I'm not sure where you're getting that. I am not misunderstanding your position in fact I'm able to restate it quite clearly in a way that I think you would agree is what your position is. The issue is that you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts and misrepresenting what you believe my argument to be, which means that we have a disingenuous conversation.

    If you modified your position from pretending that the existing relationship between Google and Huawei doesn't exist to saying that you don't like that relationship yet to acknowledge that it is the way things are, then you just be stating your opinion and not lying about what is actually the case. Nobody's going to say that you can't say you don't like the way the arrangement is. The only reason that we're having an argument at all is because in the face of facts about how the relationship works, you're putting your fingers in your ears and then just saying again that you don't care how the relationship is but Google should break the terms of their contract in order to support customers that were never theirs just because you want them to. And it is almost understandable that you would have emotionally think that they could do so but intellectually there's no defense for that argument. The terms of the deal are the terms of the deal and those terms are agreed upon by not only Google and Huawei but also by every single customer who used the Huawei device and agreed to the terms of the warranty for the device that they purchased. Those terms clearly spell out what is covered by the warranty and how to go about making a claim under that warranty protection. Have you read the warranty for my Huawei Nexus 6p? If so you perhaps noticed that at no point in the warranty process does it say that you can circumvent going through the warranty process by appealing to Google instead.
    -----------

    Once again...

    11-03-2017 02:53 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Google is not just a different place that sells the phone... it's Google's phone. It's the Google Nexus 6P.
    This is the part that is false. It isn't Google's phone, it is Huawei's phone, Google is the software partner for the Nexus program. If you look at the back of the phone, it says "Huawei" on it. Pixel phones say "G".


    If you look at the listing specs:
    Codename Angler
    Developer Google, Huawei
    Manufacturer Huawei
    Series Google Nexus



    The "Manufacturer" piece is the important part here. It says, "Huawei". If you google, "Nexus 6P" the first link is this: https://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_nexus_6p-7588.php it details the specs of the Huawei Nexus 6P. It says Huawei in the the link title. Shop for it on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Huawei-Nexus-...cUvbUpU6052406 - it's a Huawei phone. Wikipedia backs this up as well, "Nexus 6P (codenamed Angler) is an Android smartphone developed and marketed by Google and manufactured by Huawei." Google marketed it, Huawei made it. The Android Central entry on the 6P https://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-6p begins with the sentence, "Announced on September 29, 2015, the Nexus 6P is a pure Android device from Huawei."

    But I get how you could think that is all circumstantial evidence. So let's take it directly from the source: https://support.google.com/store/answer/6301411?hl=en


    Nexus 6P warranty
    This information applies to devices and accessories purchased in the United States.
    Contact information
    Manufacturer: Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. ("Huawei")

    If you didn’t buy your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, visit the Huawei website at consumer.huawei.com/us/support/. You may be covered by Huawei's limited manufacturer's warranty.

    If you bought your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, contact us for information about refunds, exchanges, or repairs. Your satisfaction is important to us and we want to help.

    If you bought your phone directly from Project Fi, call 1-844-Talk-2-Fi for information about refunds, exchanges, or repairs.

    Warranty
    Huawei provides a limited manufacturer's warranty for the Nexus 6P. To find out what is and isn’t covered by the warranty, refer to the warranty information in the Nexus 6P package or contact Huawei. This additional warranty does not affect your legal rights.

    This says, in plain english, that the manufacturer is Huawei and that, "If you didn’t buy your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, visit the Huawei website at consumer.huawei.com/us/support/. You may be covered by Huawei's limited manufacturer's warranty." It also says that if you did buy it at the Google Store, that you may contact Google for support.

    Also, if you wanted to read your warranty policy, here it is: Huawei - Support - Warranty Policy You may note the lack of the word "Google" anywhere in it.

    So, now that we have that cleared up, can we stop saying false things?
    11-03-2017 03:23 PM
  4. 12321's Avatar
    This is the part that is false. It isn't Google's phone, it is Huawei's phone, Google is the software partner for the Nexus program. If you look at the back of the phone, it says "Huawei" on it. Pixel phones say "G".

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...b/Nexus_6P.png
    If you look at the listing specs:
    Codename Angler
    Developer Google, Huawei
    Manufacturer Huawei
    Series Google Nexus



    The "Manufacturer" piece is the important part here. It says, "Huawei". If you google, "Nexus 6P" the first link is this: https://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_nexus_6p-7588.php it details the specs of the Huawei Nexus 6P. It says Huawei in the the link title. Shop for it on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Huawei-Nexus-...cUvbUpU6052432 - it's a Huawei phone. Wikipedia backs this up as well, "Nexus 6P (codenamed Angler) is an Android smartphone developed and marketed by Google and manufactured by Huawei." Google marketed it, Huawei made it. The Android Central entry on the 6P https://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-6p begins with the sentence, "Announced on September 29, 2015, the Nexus 6P is a pure Android device from Huawei."

    But I get how you could think that is all circumstantial evidence. So let's take it directly from the source: https://support.google.com/store/answer/6301411?hl=en


    Nexus 6P warranty
    This information applies to devices and accessories purchased in the United States.
    Contact information
    Manufacturer: Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. ("Huawei")

    If you didn’t buy your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, visit the Huawei website at consumer.huawei.com/us/support/. You may be covered by Huawei's limited manufacturer's warranty.

    If you bought your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, contact us for information about refunds, exchanges, or repairs. Your satisfaction is important to us and we want to help.

    If you bought your phone directly from Project Fi, call 1-844-Talk-2-Fi for information about refunds, exchanges, or repairs.

    Warranty
    Huawei provides a limited manufacturer's warranty for the Nexus 6P. To find out what is and isn’t covered by the warranty, refer to the warranty information in the Nexus 6P package or contact Huawei. This additional warranty does not affect your legal rights.

    This says, in plain english, that the manufacturer is Huawei and that, "If you didn’t buy your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, visit the Huawei website at consumer.huawei.com/us/support/. You may be covered by Huawei's limited manufacturer's warranty." It also says that if you did buy it at the Google Store, that you may contact Google for support.

    Also, if you wanted to read your warranty policy, here it is: Huawei - Support - Warranty Policy You may note the lack of the word "Google" anywhere in it.

    So, now that we have that cleared up, can we stop saying false things?
    https://chimicles.com/google-nexus-6...investigation/

    https://chimicles.com/ct-files-first...xus-6p-phones/

    What was that you were saying about me saying false things?

    11-03-2017 03:41 PM
  5. Almeuit's Avatar
    Just because a news article put "Google Nexus 6P" doesn't make it correct. It is very well known that Huawei made the phone -- and it even says so on the back. Google supports the phone but definitely didn't make it.
    11-03-2017 03:50 PM
  6. Aquila's Avatar
    Simple logic: If Google didn't sell the Nexus phone, they are prohibited by contract from providing warranty services. Therefore, any and all Nexus phones sold by any entity other than Google are ineligible to be warrantied by Google. Therefore, it is unreasonable to be upset when they do not provide said services, because it is plainly stated by both Google and Huawei that Huawei provides warranty services, with the exception of if Google sold the device, in which case it is plainly stated that in that case they will provide warranty services.

    This is DIFFERENT from the Pixel program, for which Google does provide ALL warranty service, because it is THEIR phone. Here is the Pixel warranty (1st gen): https://support.google.com/store/ans..._topic=7168941 This includes phrases like, "This Limited Warranty is given by Google Inc., a Delaware corporation whose principal place of business is at 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, United States." and "Google warrants that a new Phone (including any ancillary parts that may be packaged with it) will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use in accordance with Google’s published user documentation for one year from the date of original retail purchase in its original packaging by you." These are statements you make when you are providing a warranty.

    The big difference between this one and what was quoted, verbatim, above for the Nexus 6P is that this is a Warranty that explicitly says the warranty is provided by Google, whereas for the Nexus 6P it specifically states that Huawei provides warranty UNLESS you bought it from the Google Store. "If you didn’t buy your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, visit the Huawei website at consumer.huawei.com/us/support/. You may be covered by Huawei's limited manufacturer's warranty." That's the statement you make when you are NOT providing warranty, except for in a specific set of circumstances.

    Everyone can see how those types of statements are different. So the reason they're different? It's the second and last sentence of this post. "If Google didn't sell the Nexus phone, they are prohibited by contract from providing warranty services".
    11-03-2017 04:26 PM
  7. PGrey's Avatar
    +AC Gonfaloniere, I'm with your 100% on the whole manufacturer/OEM thing (I've worked in the OEM/IHV space for a long time).
    That said, it's getting a bit "weird" with the 6P right now. Google "appears" to not be servicing the devices at the previous level (pre-Pixel, mostly), and certainly Huawei isn't about to insert themselves to fix things (s/w-wise).
    My camera refuses to focus about 75% of the time anymore, and I'm unable to disable "Ok Google", the second of which is undoubtedly a s/w issue (really prevalent across more devices).
    Accordingly, if you call your s/w support people about either (Google), they re-direct to Huawei. Huawei support says "those are Google s/w issues that we (purportedly) know about", you need to talk to them about it.

    So then where are you, exactly?
    11-03-2017 04:43 PM
  8. 12321's Avatar
    Just because a news article put "Google Nexus 6P" doesn't make it correct. It is very well known that Huawei made the phone -- and it even says so on the back. Google supports the phone but definitely didn't make it.
    I replied to this quote earlier but I don't see my reply so here is my reply once again...

    News article? LOL try clicking the links...

    No one's arguing who manufactured the phone.

    I'll await your next post where you school everyone as to why a law firm wrongly named Google and wrongly named the device the Google Nexus 6P in their class action lawsuit.
    11-03-2017 04:48 PM
  9. Almeuit's Avatar
    No one's arguing who manufactured the phone.
    Ah well .. then good. That is all I was saying. Glad we can agree .
    11-03-2017 04:49 PM
  10. 12321's Avatar
    Simple logic: If Google didn't sell the Nexus phone, they are prohibited by contract from providing warranty services. Therefore, any and all Nexus phones sold by any entity other than Google are ineligible to be warrantied by Google. Therefore, it is unreasonable to be upset when they do not provide said services, because it is plainly stated by both Google and Huawei that Huawei provides warranty services, with the exception of if Google sold the device, in which case it is plainly stated that in that case they will provide warranty services.

    This is DIFFERENT from the Pixel program, for which Google does provide ALL warranty service, because it is THEIR phone. Here is the Pixel warranty (1st gen): https://support.google.com/store/ans..._topic=7168941 This includes phrases like, "This Limited Warranty is given by Google Inc., a Delaware corporation whose principal place of business is at 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, United States." and "Google warrants that a new Phone (including any ancillary parts that may be packaged with it) will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use in accordance with Google’s published user documentation for one year from the date of original retail purchase in its original packaging by you." These are statements you make when you are providing a warranty.

    The big difference between this one and what was quoted, verbatim, above for the Nexus 6P is that this is a Warranty that explicitly says the warranty is provided by Google, whereas for the Nexus 6P it specifically states that Huawei provides warranty UNLESS you bought it from the Google Store. "If you didn’t buy your Nexus 6P on the Google Store, visit the Huawei website at consumer.huawei.com/us/support/. You may be covered by Huawei's limited manufacturer's warranty." That's the statement you make when you are NOT providing warranty, except for in a specific set of circumstances.

    Everyone can see how those types of statements are different. So the reason they're different? It's the second and last sentence of this post. "If Google didn't sell the Nexus phone, they are prohibited by contract from providing warranty services".
    Not being a lawyer, I don't know whether or not what you are say has any merit or would hold up in a court of law. I do find it interesting however that a law firm is filing a class action lawsuit against Google in spite of everything you said.

    Also consider the fact that Google themselves could have caused the issue. Many including myself feel that their software update is exactly what caused it. Therefore they are liable to repair or replace the device.

    Let's forget legalities for one second. How about this angle: So many people experienced issues with their Nexus 6P device. Most who went through Huawei got nowhere. Google was surely aware of this. I'm sure they still are. Since Google's manufacturer / partner chose not to honor their warranty with so many customers, and using your example that Google cannot warranty devices they didn't sell, wouldn't Google want to do the right thing by their customers who were screwed over by their partner and replace those defective devices? Not repair, but replaced. Surely they can replace a device should they choose to. Nothing prevents them from sending it out a device which they call the Google Nexus 6P.

    Yes they choose not to. That's a pretty strong message to send regarding how they feel about their customers.
    11-03-2017 04:56 PM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    +AC Gonfaloniere, I'm with your 100% on the whole manufacturer/OEM thing (I've worked in the OEM/IHV space for a long time).
    That said, it's getting a bit "weird" with the 6P right now. Google "appears" to not be servicing the devices at the previous level (pre-Pixel, mostly), and certainly Huawei isn't about to insert themselves to fix things (s/w-wise).
    My camera refuses to focus about 75% of the time anymore, and I'm unable to disable "Ok Google", the second of which is undoubtedly a s/w issue (really prevalent across more devices).
    Accordingly, if you call your s/w support people about either (Google), they re-direct to Huawei. Huawei support says "those are Google s/w issues that we (purportedly) know about", you need to talk to them about it.

    So then where are you, exactly?
    Yep, the problem here, as I was trying to state at the beginning of the thread, is that Huawei is trying to pass off their responsibility for software issues. They're doing this through part 8 and 9c of their warranty terms, so it's probably technically legal - however it remains their baby. Google isn't going to replace the hardware when they're prohibited from doing so and Huawei isn't going to release new software for the device. Both of those things would be encroaching on the other partner's part of the agreement. Software fixes will have to be fixed by software updates, not warranty, unless those software issues are bad enough to result in the device needing to be replaced, in which case that would fall back to Huawei (unless purchased from the Google store). That's the point where Huawei is going to point at the expiration of the warranty and say that the product was working throughout the entire warrantied period and that things that happen after that period are not covered by the warranty.

    And this is more or less how things are intended to function with limited warranties, which sucks - but that's the business. The same thing would happen if you had a TV for 15 months and then it started randomly disconnecting from Bluetooth. The manufacturer could replace it, but they likely don't have an obligation to do so.

    This is where I insert my opinion: As Huawei has no control over the software updates and Google is prohibited from providing hardware replacements, the only logical response possible is for Huawei to provide hardware replacements for software issues - and then they should be billing Google the cost for doing so if it can be established that the defect was infact not hardware on that unit. That makes the consumer happy and whoever caused the issue at the end of the day is footing the bill.
    11-03-2017 05:04 PM
  12. Aquila's Avatar
    Not being a lawyer, I don't know whether or not what you are say has any merit or would hold up in a court of law. I do find it interesting however that a law firm is filing a class action lawsuit against Google in spite of everything you said.
    Groundless lawsuits are filed all the time. The one you and others have been linking today is being filed on behalf of plaintiffs who, because they are still within the return period, cannot establish any damages. That case has zero chance of even being heard, let alone won by the plaintiffs.

    Also consider the fact that Google themselves could have caused the issue. Many including myself feel that their software update is exactly what caused it. Therefore they are liable to repair or replace the device.
    Unfortunately your opinion of who you think should pay for it does not impact the actual warranty process nor the contractual agreements between yourself and Huawei or Huawei and Google.

    Let's forget legalities for one second. How about this angle: So many people experienced issues with their Nexus 6P device. Most who went through Huawei got nowhere. Google was surely aware of this. I'm sure they still are. Since Google's manufacturer / partner chose not to honor their warranty with so many customers, and using your example that Google cannot warranty devices they didn't sell, wouldn't Google want to do the right thing by their customers who were screwed over by their partner and replace those defective devices? Not repair, but replaced. Surely they can replace a device should they choose to. Nothing prevents them from sending it out a device which they call the Google Nexus 6P.
    You can't forget legalities in this scenario. It is a violation of their contract for them to insert themselves into this equation. Repair and replace are both the same thing in this context. Now, they could theoretically offer folks impacted a discount on a different device, but that action is also likely to get them sued by Huawei as it implies that they are alleging their partner's guilt as part of their offer.

    Yes they choose not to. That's a pretty strong message to send regarding how they feel about their customers.
    Two things here. 1. Avoiding actions that you're prohibited from doing is a good thing, not a bad thing. 2. They're not saying anything about their customers, those buyers are literally not their customers, and that's the crux of the problem. If they WERE Google store customers, then we wouldn't be having this conversation because they already started replacing Google bought 6P's with Pixels.

    So maybe that's where we can get past this. Think of Google as two entities here. Google the Manufacturer and Google the Phone Store.

    Google the Manufacturer warranties all products it produces, regardless of who sells it. These are Pixel products, Chromecasts, Google Home products, etc.
    Google the Store warranties only products it sells directly, and only if the manufacturer permits them to.
    These two entities are not interchangeable.

    Now I bring up Chromecast intentionally, because every Chromecast, no matter where you buy it, is warrantied by Google. That's their product, a product of Google the Manufacturer. However, I have a Vizio TV that has Google Cast built in. Now, Google Cast built in is the MAIN REASON I bought it. Google software is on this TV (some Vizio software is too, but let's pretend that doesn't matter for right now). So I could think of my TV as a Nexus TV. It's a Vizio TV with Google software. If an update comes and Google Cast stops working properly... is Google going to replace my TV? No. Vizio might, but Google is definitely not going to. Even if Google offered my TV in the Google Store, I bought mine at Best Buy, they're not going to listen at all. That's Vizio's problem, or my problem if Vizio disagrees with me that Cast is an important part of the function of the TV. That's the same situation as the 6P from Huawei.
    11-03-2017 05:14 PM
  13. 12321's Avatar
    Many people have been dealing with Huawei well within their warranty period with no resolution from Huawei so the fact that it's now past the warranty means nothing. Huawei claimed they did not have to warranty anything because Google was at fault and sent customers to Google. Google in turn claimed Huawei was at fault and sent customers back to Huawei. Customers were sent in circles with no resolution. This resulted in a class action lawsuit filed against both Google and Huawei. It remains to be seen whether or not the lawsuit is settled or goes to court.

    Google and Huawei may feel they have won the battle by not servicing thousands of customers with defective Nexus 6P devices, but they will lose the war of winning customers and making customers happy. The majority of these customers, myself included, will never purchase another Google or Huawei product. Have you ever heard the saying good news travels fast but bad news travels even faster? I will go out of my way as much as possible to share my experience with as many people as I can and influence them to steer clear of these two companies. The nice thing about Android is that there are other companies who have shown that they actually care about their customers.

    I'm not a believer in karma, but if it exists, Google is definitely feeling it with the Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL releases and all of the defects associated with them. Once again, Google takes no responsibility for releasing devices with defective screens. You can argue that the devices are not defective, as I'm sure you will. Thousands of disappointed Google customers will disagree with you. Based on the comments I've read, which are just a small percentage of people who bought the Pixel 2, thousands of Google customers service have already cancelled their orders.

    As for us getting past this, there is nothing for us to get past. You have a right to express your viewpoints, the same way I do. As usually happens, people who have differing opinions end up agreeing to disagree. I'm sharing my experience with Google and Huawei as a very unhappy customer, and you are defending them. People can read this thread, as well as thousands of other articles about the Pixel 2 and decide for themselves whether or not they feel comfortable purchasing Google or Huawei devices.
    11-03-2017 09:05 PM
  14. Aquila's Avatar
    I'm sharing my experience with Google and Huawei as a very unhappy customer, and you are defending them.
    You are intentionally spreading misinformation and I'm trying to provide facts to counter that behavior because it is harmful to the community. Those are not equal positions in an honest argument. My position is not defending Google or Huawei, it is defending the rule of reason and law over hyperbole and falsehoods.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-03-2017 10:59 PM
  15. 12321's Avatar
    You are intentionally spreading misinformation
    Sharing my experience with Google and Huawei as a very unhappy customer is not spreading misinformation. It's spreading truth.

    and I'm trying to provide facts to counter that behavior because it is harmful to the community.
    Much of what you wrote is not factual. It is based on what you perceive to be fact and/or what you wish to present as fact to support your position. Your accusation towards me that I'm intentionally spreading misinformation by sharing how I've been shafted by Google and Huawei is a perfect example of you presenting something that is not factual.

    If what I write is harmful to the community, don't blame me, blame Google and Huawei for not taking responsibility and not caring about their customers who spent $650 for a device that became defective in just over six months. Don't shoot the messenger.

    Unfortunately I don't have the time to dissect and counter everything you wrote that I deem is your opinion and not fact, which is why I wrote that I agree to disagree. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you can do the same. You want to strong-arm me into agreeing that you are the sole presenter of facts in this discussion. You want to play judge jury and executioner.

    Those are not equal positions in an honest argument. My position is not defending Google or Huawei, it is defending the rule of reason and law over hyperbole and falsehoods.
    Again, your accusations towards me of hyperbole and falsehoods are not factual. By default, so is your accusation that these are not equal positions in an honest argument. Accusing me of spreading misinformation when I've done the exact opposite by spreading truth is, in fact, hyperbole and falsehood. You are not the last word in the defending of the rule of reason and law. This is not a courtroom, this is a message board where people are entitled to post their experiences.

    Unfortunately, not all experiences are positive, evidenced by thousands of Nexus 6P owners, Pixel 2 owners, and Pixel 2 XL owners who have posted of their disappointment online. They're not intentionally spreading misinformation, nor is it hyperbole and falsehood. It's fact. Here's 1,000+ posts in one thread alone:

    https://forum.xda-developers.com/nex...youre-t3522911
    11-04-2017 12:37 AM
  16. PGrey's Avatar
    Yep, the problem here, as I was trying to state at the beginning of the thread, is that Huawei is trying to pass off their responsibility for software issues. They're doing this through part 8 and 9c of their warranty terms, so it's probably technically legal - however it remains their baby. Google isn't going to replace the hardware when they're prohibited from doing so and Huawei isn't going to release new software for the device. Both of those things would be encroaching on the other partner's part of the agreement. Software fixes will have to be fixed by software updates, not warranty, unless those software issues are bad enough to result in the device needing to be replaced, in which case that would fall back to Huawei (unless purchased from the Google store). That's the point where Huawei is going to point at the expiration of the warranty and say that the product was working throughout the entire warrantied period and that things that happen after that period are not covered by the warranty.

    And this is more or less how things are intended to function with limited warranties, which sucks - but that's the business. The same thing would happen if you had a TV for 15 months and then it started randomly disconnecting from Bluetooth. The manufacturer could replace it, but they likely don't have an obligation to do so.

    This is where I insert my opinion: As Huawei has no control over the software updates and Google is prohibited from providing hardware replacements, the only logical response possible is for Huawei to provide hardware replacements for software issues - and then they should be billing Google the cost for doing so if it can be established that the defect was infact not hardware on that unit. That makes the consumer happy and whoever caused the issue at the end of the day is footing the bill.
    Yeah, I think we're pretty much in agreement here, we're both mostly scratching our heads.
    The only thing is, if I'd bought a "flagship TV", say in the 4-6k range, I'm pretty sure they'd be treating it differently.
    We both know it's the s/w side, everyone involved does really, I just fail to understand why Google doesn't just make the effort to fix the issues, rather than play "hardware circus" with Huawei.
    It seems to me like they'd want to make the consumer happy, at some point they're going to need "appreciative consumers" too, particularly since they have a "new consumer facing brand" as of recent.

    If you think about it, and extrapolate this to a Surface, you can be darn sure it'd be getting fixed, say if there was a kernel tweak that bricked a bunch of them, or similar.
    11-04-2017 03:33 AM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    Sharing my experience with Google and Huawei as a very unhappy customer is not spreading misinformation. It's spreading truth.



    Much of what you wrote is not factual. It is based on what you perceive to be fact and/or what you wish to present as fact to support your position. Your accusation towards me that I'm intentionally spreading misinformation by sharing how I've been shafted by Google and Huawei is a perfect example of you presenting something that is not factual.

    If what I write is harmful to the community, don't blame me, blame Google and Huawei for not taking responsibility and not caring about their customers who spent $650 for a device that became defective in just over six months. Don't shoot the messenger.

    Unfortunately I don't have the time to dissect and counter everything you wrote that I deem is your opinion and not fact, which is why I wrote that I agree to disagree. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you can do the same. You want to strong-arm me into agreeing that you are the sole presenter of facts in this discussion. You want to play judge jury and executioner.



    Again, your accusations towards me of hyperbole and falsehoods are not factual. By default, so is your accusation that these are not equal positions in an honest argument. Accusing me of spreading misinformation when I've done the exact opposite by spreading truth is, in fact, hyperbole and falsehood. You are not the last word in the defending of the rule of reason and law. This is not a courtroom, this is a message board where people are entitled to post their experiences.

    Unfortunately, not all experiences are positive, evidenced by thousands of Nexus 6P owners, Pixel 2 owners, and Pixel 2 XL owners who have posted of their disappointment online. They're not intentionally spreading misinformation, nor is it hyperbole and falsehood. It's fact. Here's 1,000+ posts in one thread alone:

    https://forum.xda-developers.com/nex...youre-t3522911
    I have provided my sources which prove the relationship terms which appear in my points. That's factual, evidence based statements. I haven't said that no one is unsatisfied, I've said you're pushing your frustrations towards the wrong party. I've then proven why this is the case, with evidence directly from both of the parties. You are free to post your opinions just as I am free to point out the flaws in the statements you make to try to correct the record. The problem is that this is continually happening, rather than having to be done once.
    11-04-2017 09:29 AM
  18. 12321's Avatar
    I have provided my sources which prove the relationship terms which appear in my points. That's factual, evidence based statements. I haven't said that no one is unsatisfied, I've said you're pushing your frustrations towards the wrong party. I've then proven why this is the case, with evidence directly from both of the parties. You are free to post your opinions just as I am free to point out the flaws in the statements you make to try to correct the record. The problem is that this is continually happening, rather than having to be done once.
    Do your "factual, evidence based statements" have merit in a court of law? That remains to be seen, as there is an ongoing class action lawsuit against Google regarding the Google Nexus 6P (the law firm's exact wording of the device, so feel free to take it up with the attorneys if you disagree). One of three things will happen: The case will be dropped, the case will be settled out of court, or the case will go to court and one party will prevail. Until one of these three things happen, I will reserve judgement regarding what you claim are facts.

    The disconnect here is reading your posts, it appears that you are a defense attorney representing Google arguing the case in a courtroom in front of a judge. You're not. You're posting on a message board. Not a single person of the thousands who have purchased a Nexus 6P and experienced these issues is going to read what you wrote and walk away a happy Google consumer. That's the part you seem to be missing, as is Google.

    PGrey above perfectly summed up the part that is not resonating with you, the part that thousands of disappointed Nexus 6P owners, and now thousands of Pixel 2 XL owners feel: a huge disappointment and resentment towards Google:

    "We both know it's the s/w side, everyone involved does really, I just fail to understand why Google doesn't just make the effort to fix the issues, rather than play "hardware circus" with Huawei.
    It seems to me like they'd want to make the consumer happy, at some point they're going to need "appreciative consumers" too, particularly since they have a "new consumer facing brand" as of recent."

    Your argument against PGrey, myself, the 1,000+ upset people who posted in the thread in my above post, and thousands more people who bought a Nexus 6P and experienced these issues, is to present what you perceive are facts (yet to be proven), and show that Google is under no obligation to take responsibility for something that PGrey, myself, and thousands of Nexus 6P owners feel Google caused with their software update.

    When you have a perfectly working six month old device on Monday running Android 6.0, you download Android 7.0 on Tuesday, and your battery immediately starts draining rapidly and randomly shutting off at 15%, it's safe to say Google caused the issue with their software update. You wrote back in April that you bet Google would fix the issue. You were wrong. They haven't. Nor have they even acknowledged that there is an issue.

    You see only black and white. If you are trying to please current customers, gain new customers, and make everyone happy, sometimes there has to be grey (ironic terminology since the poster I am quoting above is named PGrey).

    Google's position of not taking responsibility for their OS ruining thousands of Nexus 6P devices, not fixing the issue, or even acknowledging it, may or may not win in a court of law. It will, however, further upset and alienate thousands of disappointed customers.

    Likewise, Google's position of claiming that the OLED screens on their Pixel 2 XL devices "are as great as they hoped they would be", and "it's decay characteristics are comprable to OLED panels used in other premium smartphones" (not to mention the slew of other Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL issues) will, again, do nothing but further upset and alienate thousands of disappointed customers.

    As a result, Google will surely lose from a business standpoint, as thousands of current and potential customers will certainly look elsewhere when it comes to buying Google devices.
    11-04-2017 12:48 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    The disconnect here is reading your posts, it appears that you are a defense attorney representing Google arguing the case in a courtroom in front of a judge. You're not.
    This is what I mean, exactly, by you misrepresenting my position. I'm not defending Google, or Huawei, at all. If you would actually read what I'm writing, it is plainly NOT a defense of any company or an attack against any consumers. It is an explanation of who is responsible for warranty services and why that party is responsible. That explanation is grounded in and backed up by the official policies of both companies. It's a very simple concept, as is the explanation of that concept.
    11-04-2017 01:23 PM
  20. 12321's Avatar
    This is what I mean, exactly, by you misrepresenting my position. I'm not defending Google, or Huawei, at all. If you would actually read what I'm writing, it is plainly NOT a defense of any company or an attack against any consumers. It is an explanation of who is responsible for warranty services and why that party is responsible. That explanation is grounded in and backed up by the official policies of both companies. It's a very simple concept, as is the explanation of that concept.
    Thanks for the heads up. I know we're not in a courtroom. That's why I wrote "IT APPEARS". Do you always take everything so literally? It's amazing that you continue to refuse to acknowledge the bigger picture here, that PGrey stated perfectly.
    11-04-2017 01:34 PM
  21. sydneycooper1979's Avatar
    Mod Note: please keep the discussion civil and on topic. No need to discuss each other. Thank you.
    11-04-2017 01:37 PM
  22. xplod566's Avatar
    This is what I mean, exactly, by you misrepresenting my position. I'm not defending Google, or Huawei, at all. If you would actually read what I'm writing, it is plainly NOT a defense of any company or an attack against any consumers. It is an explanation of who is responsible for warranty services and why that party is responsible. That explanation is grounded in and backed up by the official policies of both companies. It's a very simple concept, as is the explanation of that concept.
    Lolz.
    Man u talk a lot..... Just kidding! ;-)
    11-04-2017 03:46 PM
  23. 12321's Avatar
    This is what I mean, exactly, by you misrepresenting my position. I'm not defending Google, or Huawei, at all. If you would actually read what I'm writing, it is plainly NOT a defense of any company or an attack against any consumers. It is an explanation of who is responsible for warranty services and why that party is responsible. That explanation is grounded in and backed up by the official policies of both companies. It's a very simple concept, as is the explanation of that concept.
    You can't forget legalities in this scenario. It is a violation of their contract for them to insert themselves into this equation. Now, they could theoretically offer folks impacted a discount on a different device, but that action is also likely to get them sued by Huawei as it implies that they are alleging their partner's guilt as part of their offer.
    If Google didn't sell the Nexus phone, they are prohibited by contract from providing warranty services.
    As Huawei has no control over the software updates and Google is prohibited from providing hardware replacements, the only logical response possible is for Huawei to provide hardware replacements for software issues - and then they should be billing Google the cost for doing so if it can be established that the defect was infact not hardware on that unit. That makes the consumer happy and whoever caused the issue at the end of the day is footing the bill.
    I mentioned this several times, but I'll reiterate it: I called Huawei numerous times to try and get them to honor the warranty. I spoke with Huawei customer service reps, Huawei managers, and Huawei supervisors.

    Every single Huawei employee directed me to contact Google regarding the warranty process, claiming Google caused the issue with their OS update (which every Nexus 6P owner agrees with). Yes, Huawei's official response is to send every Nexus 6P owner to Google for warranty service. Kind of shoots holes into several of your quotes above, that you claim are facts.

    I got the biggest laugh out of the one where you said that Google might open themselves up to getting sued by Huawei if they honored the warranty, LOL. Are you serious? Huawei would love nothing more than for Google to offer repairs or replacement devices to people with defective Nexus 6P devices.

    Huawei wouldn't sue Google for this, they would thank them for it, as it would give Huawei's customer service center a break from thousands of phone calls from Nexus 6P owners as a result of Google's OS update ruining their devices.
    11-05-2017 02:48 PM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    I mentioned this several times, but I'll reiterate it: I called Huawei numerous times to try and get them to honor the warranty. I spoke with Huawei customer service reps, Huawei managers, and Huawei supervisors.

    Every single Huawei employee directed me to contact Google regarding the warranty process, claiming Google caused the issue with their OS update (which every Nexus 6P owner agrees with). Yes, Huawei's official response is to send every Nexus 6P owner to Google for warranty service. Kind of shoots holes into several of your quotes above, that you claim are facts.

    I got the biggest laugh out of the one where you said that Google might open themselves up to getting sued by Huawei if they honored the warranty, LOL. Are you serious? Huawei would love nothing more than for Google to offer repairs or replacement devices two people with defective Nexus 6P devices.

    Huawei wouldn't sue Google for this, they would thank them for it, as it would give Huawei's customer service center a break from thousands of phone calls from Nexus 6P owners as a result of Google's OS update ruining their devices.
    Huawei is telling you Google should replace the phone? Or are they saying that isn't a warranty issue at all and that you need to deal with Google for troubleshooting software issues? Also this should not have to be stated, but nothing customer service people say changes the warranty policies. Customer service people generally know very little and have even less power. In fact, both warranty policies specifically state that no individuals have the power to change the terms of the warranty.

    At this point you're going to believe what you want to believe. The information to become educated is available within this very thread. Disagreeing with factual statements is not logically coherent. Trying to twist through words in a way that makes your assumptions seem plausible might feel good, not sure... but it definitely does not change the facts of the matter, which I've already posted. It's a super simple case defined incredibly clearly by both companies involved and you agreed to the terms when deciding to use Huawei's phone. Does that suck? Sure. Does that means you should be able to void that contract? Definitely not.
    11-05-2017 02:56 PM
  25. 12321's Avatar
    Huawei is telling you Google should replace the phone? Or are they saying that isn't a warranty issue at all and that you need to deal with Google for troubleshooting software issues? Also this should not have to be stated, but nothing customer service people say changes the warranty policies. Customer service people generally know very little and have even less power. In fact, both warranty policies specifically state that no individuals have the power to change the terms of the warranty.

    At this point you're going to believe what you want to believe. The information to become educated is available within this very thread. Disagreeing with factual statements is not logically coherent. Trying to twist through words in a way that makes your assumptions seem plausible might feel good, not sure... but it definitely does not change the facts of the matter, which I've already posted. It's a super simple case defined incredibly clearly by both companies involved and you agreed to the terms when deciding to use Huawei's phone. Does that suck? Sure. Does that means you should be able to void that contract? Definitely not.
    Huawei sent me and thousands of Nexus 6P owners directly to Google for warranty service.

    Customer service reps get their information directly from their managers and supervisors. They have to follow their directions and can't simply direct people where they are not allowed to direct people.

    Also, you must have missed the part where I said I spoke with managers and supervisors as well. Huawei has four supervisors, and I know them all on a first-name basis. I also spoke with the supervisor of those four supervisors. Once again, they all directed me to contact Google for warranty service.
    11-05-2017 03:13 PM
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