Any 6P users got the Google Assistant update yet?
- Thread starter Hammer9274
- Start date
PGrey
Well-known member
It's tough, I've done some NLU design work and managed some work in this area.
Even something as simple as a location/accent change can be tricky, little things like figuring out what "eh" meant, when parsing a phrase ;-]
Then there's location-based services too. When you ask the assistant for things, other than built-in functions, it'll often use plug-ins, typically called "skills" or similar. These skills are often finely-honed, or at least pass a certain reasonable-use threshold for a location/language.
When you move outside of that location, sometimes the "crickets" response to a query can be perceived as a quality issue. "I just tried this last week, and it worked great" isn't something they want to hear, particularly often (say you were looking for a meat-potatoes restaurant one week, but were after "poutine" because now you're in Vancouver, instead of Seattle. Can the NLU model handle this concept, and even if it can, are there any providers for the locale, that make any sense, to "hand off" to?
What if I'm looking for "poutine" in Florida, there's a good one to try ;-]
It can really get crazy from there, the permutations for something simple like "I want to hear some rock music", vs, "I want to rock out to some Boston from the 80's", two fairly simple intents, but VERY tricky for the model to decipher exactly what you're after (hint, the first one is probably pretty easy to implement across multiple models).
The logic behind NLU and intent is mind-boggling, if you ever find yourself immersed in it. Yeah, you can draw some "happy pathway" diagrams that show it'll work, but users don't often follow these, pretty much only the testers.
This is all supposition of course, from my experience, I have no knowledge of Google's internal decision process in these cases, but if their desire for search-accuracy is any indication, well...
Even something as simple as a location/accent change can be tricky, little things like figuring out what "eh" meant, when parsing a phrase ;-]
Then there's location-based services too. When you ask the assistant for things, other than built-in functions, it'll often use plug-ins, typically called "skills" or similar. These skills are often finely-honed, or at least pass a certain reasonable-use threshold for a location/language.
When you move outside of that location, sometimes the "crickets" response to a query can be perceived as a quality issue. "I just tried this last week, and it worked great" isn't something they want to hear, particularly often (say you were looking for a meat-potatoes restaurant one week, but were after "poutine" because now you're in Vancouver, instead of Seattle. Can the NLU model handle this concept, and even if it can, are there any providers for the locale, that make any sense, to "hand off" to?
What if I'm looking for "poutine" in Florida, there's a good one to try ;-]
It can really get crazy from there, the permutations for something simple like "I want to hear some rock music", vs, "I want to rock out to some Boston from the 80's", two fairly simple intents, but VERY tricky for the model to decipher exactly what you're after (hint, the first one is probably pretty easy to implement across multiple models).
The logic behind NLU and intent is mind-boggling, if you ever find yourself immersed in it. Yeah, you can draw some "happy pathway" diagrams that show it'll work, but users don't often follow these, pretty much only the testers.
This is all supposition of course, from my experience, I have no knowledge of Google's internal decision process in these cases, but if their desire for search-accuracy is any indication, well...
Buddy1969
Well-known member
PGrey
Well-known member
Actually, I was doing some work recently, on some Alexa work. I can't really say much, but I can say that this is definitely a problem in more than the Assistant.
No question, the basic NLU problems have (mostly, as long as your accent is close to the NLU) long been mostly resolved, and things like Now work great in a bunch of languages.
That's a whole different deal from being able to tell that someone said they want to "get down and groove to some blues" or "drown my sorrows in some blues" vs they want to "listen to a blues album" (just a couple of quick examples, look up "NLU example problems" if you really want to read a LOT of crazy language issues that no one ever considers).
Some of these constructs work fine, ported to another language, others work okay, some fail completely.
The Assistant has a lot more skills and such, than Now had, amongst other things.
What if, say I'm in Sudan, and my local NLU manages to determine that I really want to hear a blues album. But nothing is on my device, hmm.... Now in the US, we'd fire off a host of listening and purchase options, probably even over-matching what the user was after. We might even succeed in selling the user something.
In Sudan, well, maybe, there's a music service that offers a limited selection. Due to DRM and other issues though, there might be zilch available, getting back to the "crickets issue". I'm pretty sure they want to avoid these scenarios, based on my experience with other creator/owners of voice-assistant type services, but that's just my experience, a severe under-match has always been a big red flag.
Just throwing up a bunch of search results was considered only marginally better too, than nothing (not exactly "friendly", in accordance with the assistant type model).
The Germany implementation is MUCH easier, plenty of good solid tech "backbone" there, music services with DRM already resolved, and lots of extra disposable capital to drive the whole system, including the development of that language/locale. Sadly, the economics of it really do drive a fair amount of the effort, again, IME.
Not saying that some of these others won't "fill in", eventually, but I'm guessing there's a threshold of sorts, across several areas, that gates the release for a language/locale(s), beyond just a good NLU and intent model.
If you read some of the press releases for Google Assistant, they note that the UK, Germany, Canada, and some others are slated for the very near future. There's one thing in common with all.
No question, the basic NLU problems have (mostly, as long as your accent is close to the NLU) long been mostly resolved, and things like Now work great in a bunch of languages.
That's a whole different deal from being able to tell that someone said they want to "get down and groove to some blues" or "drown my sorrows in some blues" vs they want to "listen to a blues album" (just a couple of quick examples, look up "NLU example problems" if you really want to read a LOT of crazy language issues that no one ever considers).
Some of these constructs work fine, ported to another language, others work okay, some fail completely.
The Assistant has a lot more skills and such, than Now had, amongst other things.
What if, say I'm in Sudan, and my local NLU manages to determine that I really want to hear a blues album. But nothing is on my device, hmm.... Now in the US, we'd fire off a host of listening and purchase options, probably even over-matching what the user was after. We might even succeed in selling the user something.
In Sudan, well, maybe, there's a music service that offers a limited selection. Due to DRM and other issues though, there might be zilch available, getting back to the "crickets issue". I'm pretty sure they want to avoid these scenarios, based on my experience with other creator/owners of voice-assistant type services, but that's just my experience, a severe under-match has always been a big red flag.
Just throwing up a bunch of search results was considered only marginally better too, than nothing (not exactly "friendly", in accordance with the assistant type model).
The Germany implementation is MUCH easier, plenty of good solid tech "backbone" there, music services with DRM already resolved, and lots of extra disposable capital to drive the whole system, including the development of that language/locale. Sadly, the economics of it really do drive a fair amount of the effort, again, IME.
Not saying that some of these others won't "fill in", eventually, but I'm guessing there's a threshold of sorts, across several areas, that gates the release for a language/locale(s), beyond just a good NLU and intent model.
If you read some of the press releases for Google Assistant, they note that the UK, Germany, Canada, and some others are slated for the very near future. There's one thing in common with all.
Buddy1969
Well-known member
Of course, as I am from Austria, a typical guy from Germany wouldn't understand my german anymore than an american would understand a proper Yorkshire accent in the UK.
But when I mutter my commands to a digital assistant like Alexa or Google Now, I normally use proper high german and have no problems whatsoever...
The devices understand me ok. That's why I scratch my head, why Google supports German in Google Now but suddenly would have problems with that language in the assistant...
Additionally, they deliver the assistant already with the Pixel Phones and in Allo. I would be surprised if the language restricitons are valid there as well...
But ok, whatever. I settle for Google Now and wait a bit longer.
But when I mutter my commands to a digital assistant like Alexa or Google Now, I normally use proper high german and have no problems whatsoever...
The devices understand me ok. That's why I scratch my head, why Google supports German in Google Now but suddenly would have problems with that language in the assistant...
Additionally, they deliver the assistant already with the Pixel Phones and in Allo. I would be surprised if the language restricitons are valid there as well...
But ok, whatever. I settle for Google Now and wait a bit longer.
Still no Google assistant in the UK, Google home is released in the UK next week, they probably are holding off until then to allow us to use Google assistant... Used to love having a Nexus, all the newest features as they were released by Google... Now , since the pixels, not so much, i may as well have an LG or Samsung
PGrey
Well-known member
That's pretty cool, German must have less "accent issues" than English.
I'm fortunate enough to have grown up in AK, which apparently has one of the least-accent affected English, from what I've read over the years. I tend to be able to make most any voice app understand me, sometimes with a little attention to what I'm saying. Having spent time working in the industry, I watch, as many around me struggle to do the same, and often even fail or give up, or use an automated script instead (and we wonder why people don't use these, hmm... ;-0).
I agree though, it's odd that they're "holding out" on the Assistant in locations where obviously Google Now is working fine, or maybe it's just our perception. Google has some numbers on mis-recognitions, and also how many "successes" a voice interaction had, in a given language/locale/etc. You can bet they slice/dice those numbers, 10 different ways, to look at how/when they roll out the Assistant.
There's some crazy-high numbers around what happens, if someone tries an "assistant" and fails, and how quickly they abandon. I'd bet they're looking at some cross-section of these numbers, and trying to hit the best "sweet spot", where they don't lose current users, but also don't lose them through a bad experience.
We might tend to think of a "success" as being able to call someone, or find an address, but they might be looking more at things like being able to book a restaurant at your guided destination, get tickets near a vacation destination (say if I was using my English assistant, in Germany, and wanted some festival tickets, or they wanted to show me them, near my destination), or a whole host of other metrics...
Who knows, I could be off in the weeds here too, I only have perception on some other voice assistants, not Google's, but I've definitely seen some interesting commonalities now, having worked on more than one...
I'm fortunate enough to have grown up in AK, which apparently has one of the least-accent affected English, from what I've read over the years. I tend to be able to make most any voice app understand me, sometimes with a little attention to what I'm saying. Having spent time working in the industry, I watch, as many around me struggle to do the same, and often even fail or give up, or use an automated script instead (and we wonder why people don't use these, hmm... ;-0).
I agree though, it's odd that they're "holding out" on the Assistant in locations where obviously Google Now is working fine, or maybe it's just our perception. Google has some numbers on mis-recognitions, and also how many "successes" a voice interaction had, in a given language/locale/etc. You can bet they slice/dice those numbers, 10 different ways, to look at how/when they roll out the Assistant.
There's some crazy-high numbers around what happens, if someone tries an "assistant" and fails, and how quickly they abandon. I'd bet they're looking at some cross-section of these numbers, and trying to hit the best "sweet spot", where they don't lose current users, but also don't lose them through a bad experience.
We might tend to think of a "success" as being able to call someone, or find an address, but they might be looking more at things like being able to book a restaurant at your guided destination, get tickets near a vacation destination (say if I was using my English assistant, in Germany, and wanted some festival tickets, or they wanted to show me them, near my destination), or a whole host of other metrics...
Who knows, I could be off in the weeds here too, I only have perception on some other voice assistants, not Google's, but I've definitely seen some interesting commonalities now, having worked on more than one...
brutos08
Well-known member
PGrey
Well-known member
I went ahead and added UK English to my 6P, which previously only had US English.
Went back into the Assistant, and it had a cool UK accent, but it worked fine, other than my "UK English" was somewhat "less than completely accurate" ;-]
The phone responded with a UK English acccent though, no question.
I'd bet that the setting is based on locale, or some combination of locale and then secondarily, language.
Has anyone in the UK tried adding US English, setting it as primary, and seeing if the Assistant comes up? If it did, then my little experiment would indicate you could then switch back to UK English, and it would persist.
Went back into the Assistant, and it had a cool UK accent, but it worked fine, other than my "UK English" was somewhat "less than completely accurate" ;-]
The phone responded with a UK English acccent though, no question.
I'd bet that the setting is based on locale, or some combination of locale and then secondarily, language.
Has anyone in the UK tried adding US English, setting it as primary, and seeing if the Assistant comes up? If it did, then my little experiment would indicate you could then switch back to UK English, and it would persist.
brutos08
Well-known member
brutos08
Well-known member
Buddy1969
Well-known member
Alright, I added English US to my list and put it on top. I emptied the Google app and Google Play Services Cache. REbooted the device.
Now how do I start the Assistent? The phone don't react to "Ok Google" anymore ... hmmm.
Holding the home button Shows a different menu than before, but I am not sure if this is due to the change of language...
Any advice?
PS: I found the Assistent Settings and found out I have to train the voice recognition. Shame is, that it doesn't work. I have to say ok Google three times ... it did work once inbetween 20000 times saying ok Google, but I will never get it to recognize me three times at that rate ... omg, what a crap.
With Google now it did work fine.
gosh...
pps: turning the language back to german did solve the problem (even though my spoken english is very good and even people from the UK would put my accent "roughly somewhere around London").
Strange, strange.
Nevertheless, the assistant stayed (can still start the Settings etc).
So: assistant in german now. Ok, I'll take it as long as it works.
Now how do I start the Assistent? The phone don't react to "Ok Google" anymore ... hmmm.
Holding the home button Shows a different menu than before, but I am not sure if this is due to the change of language...
Any advice?
PS: I found the Assistent Settings and found out I have to train the voice recognition. Shame is, that it doesn't work. I have to say ok Google three times ... it did work once inbetween 20000 times saying ok Google, but I will never get it to recognize me three times at that rate ... omg, what a crap.
With Google now it did work fine.
gosh...
pps: turning the language back to german did solve the problem (even though my spoken english is very good and even people from the UK would put my accent "roughly somewhere around London").
Strange, strange.
Nevertheless, the assistant stayed (can still start the Settings etc).
So: assistant in german now. Ok, I'll take it as long as it works.
Last edited:
PGrey
Well-known member
Not sure about the German part, odd.
To check if you have the Assistant, click on the Settings (three little dots), on the new screen that comes up, when you hold down the Home button.
If you see a bunch of new settings and a "Google Assistant" at the top, you know you're on the new Assistant.
PGrey
Well-known member
Yep, tested the UK English (but still US locale) permutation.
It worked great for awhile, UK accent voice responses and everything, but overnight it quit working.
I switched back to US English, and within an hour it had re-enabled.
Obviously simple to use US English (if you have a decent command of the language, of course), a simple setting, but not so easy to change the locale; that would be a pretty serious hack or a wait for Google to enable more (which all the press releases seem to indicate is coming) locales.
Obviously not recommending people try this at all if they aren't at least semi-proficient in reading English, since it's a pain to get back, I've had the "my phone got set to a far-east character set" issue before, it's not so simple to reverse (maybe it's easier on Android, but on Win Phone, some of the layouts change too, so you can't just follow the same set of screens).
On the plus side though, it's pretty cool, they do support my not-so-very-fancy house thermostat, someone built the plug-in to work with their web protocol, so I can ask my phone to "turn the temp up to xx or turn the temp up a little". Not exactly earth-shattering, but it was cool to see that Google is working hard with vendors to make the integrations (skills) work, and work pretty well at that.
It worked great for awhile, UK accent voice responses and everything, but overnight it quit working.
I switched back to US English, and within an hour it had re-enabled.
Obviously simple to use US English (if you have a decent command of the language, of course), a simple setting, but not so easy to change the locale; that would be a pretty serious hack or a wait for Google to enable more (which all the press releases seem to indicate is coming) locales.
Obviously not recommending people try this at all if they aren't at least semi-proficient in reading English, since it's a pain to get back, I've had the "my phone got set to a far-east character set" issue before, it's not so simple to reverse (maybe it's easier on Android, but on Win Phone, some of the layouts change too, so you can't just follow the same set of screens).
On the plus side though, it's pretty cool, they do support my not-so-very-fancy house thermostat, someone built the plug-in to work with their web protocol, so I can ask my phone to "turn the temp up to xx or turn the temp up a little". Not exactly earth-shattering, but it was cool to see that Google is working hard with vendors to make the integrations (skills) work, and work pretty well at that.
Buddy1969
Well-known member
What I experienced with the recent changes (Google Assistant + German language) is, that the phone is now quite unstable. Every second day it freezes and needs to be restarted. Sometimes I get jitters and stutters.
Not so great.
PS: just got 7.1.2 OTA ... let's see what that changes
Not so great.
PS: just got 7.1.2 OTA ... let's see what that changes
Last edited:
Yes its been rolled out in the form of an app called google Allo but it is a bit more limited
TonySmithPhoto
Well-known member
Google Assistant has naturally hit UK now.
I'm on Vodafone contract, running the latest 7.1.2, and it appeared tonight.
I'm on Vodafone contract, running the latest 7.1.2, and it appeared tonight.
Did you have to clear the cache or data from the Google app? I'm running the latest 7.1.2 and am Vodafone, still on Google now
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