10-13-2019 11:05 AM
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  1. Fred98TJ's Avatar
    What’s the shutter speed ?
    Almost every non-photographer doesn’t understand what ISO is and isn’t in digital photography (also some photographers don’t either).
    ISO, in digital photography, has nothing to do with exposure. It is not part of the “exposure triangle”.
    .
    06-27-2019 05:41 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Almost every non-photographer doesn’t understand what ISO is and isn’t in digital photography (also some photographers don’t either).
    ISO, in digital photography, has nothing to do with exposure. It is not part of the “exposure triangle”.
    .
    I remember having this exact discussion with you not long ago in another thread. I provided multiple outside references and my own example demonstrating your ignorance on the exposure triangle and how digital camera sensors work. You only repeated the same thing over and over with nothing but your own claims as if they were self evident truths.

    If you can provide something backing up your claims, I'll look at it and reconsider my opinion. If not, then your claim that ISO isn't part of the exposure triangle is nothing but a blatant lie.
    06-27-2019 06:40 PM
  3. Fred98TJ's Avatar
    I remember having this exact discussion with you not long ago in another thread. I provided multiple outside references and my own example demonstrating your ignorance on the exposure triangle and how digital camera sensors work. You only repeated the same thing over and over with nothing but your own claims as if they were self evident truths.

    If you can provide something backing up your claims, I'll look at it and reconsider my opinion. If not, then your claim that ISO isn't part of the exposure triangle is nothing but a blatant lie.

    I’ve included 3 screen shots with some of the important parts in red since you seem to have a hard time searching and maybe reading.
    The 3rd screen shot is from one of the photo forums that I’m on (not cell phone cameras) and just to show that many photographers understand ISO.

    Here’s one (of many) articles explaining:

    https://www.dpreview.com/articles/81...vs-brightening


    Lastly here are a few YouTube videos that in case you have understanding written articles:




    This first one provides a real simple visual explanation. The first 3 or 4 mins.








    This one, if you’re not interested in some of the history of ISO, simply skip ahead to around 5:15 or so.





    Long and technical but a good explanation.


    For your further information, some of the very top of the line cameras don’t even have a ISO dial or setting adjustment (REDs for one) and have a gain adjustment instead (measured in dB) which is actually what “adjusting the ISO” is really doing. Adjusting the ISO does not changed the sensitivity of the sensor and doesn’t change anything relating to the exposure as captured.

    I take offense at the “blatant lie” comment, but shrug it off as most likely coming from a emotional challenged person perhaps or someone that is simply not capable of understanding some basics regarding digital photography.

    If you have have the capability, then search and learn yourself.
    Good luck in your quest.
    Attached Thumbnails OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-f6f99fb9-628e-45e7-9159-e57e6832a8f4.jpg   OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-e9bc2b76-1c86-4adf-87be-59d8bb0af124.jpg   OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-9f3bc7aa-f3d2-4237-bf8b-579a8b0e01f0.jpg  
    06-28-2019 08:33 AM
  4. RaRa85's Avatar
    What’s the shutter speed ?
    Almost every non-photographer doesn’t understand what ISO is and isn’t in digital photography (also some photographers don’t either).
    ISO, in digital photography, has nothing to do with exposure. It is not part of the “exposure triangle”.
    .
    The shutter speed was still 13 seconds. So the difference in ISO (which controls light sensitivity) is why one shot does not need to be exposure corrected vs the one where I just attempted to see how much information I could recover from overexposing. The ISO was the only difference between the nice photos (ISO 100) and a hot mess (ISO 3200).
    I didn't read through all the material you provided but I think this real world example pretty much debunks any claims that ISO is not part of the exposure triangle. At least from a general "what you see" standpoint anyway. All that other information does not matter in terms of actually capturing an image whether it's called brightening or otherwise and makes the overall understanding of exposure much more confusing than needed. That's why no one shoots at high ISO on a bright sunny day.
    Mooncatt likes this.
    06-28-2019 09:17 AM
  5. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I’ve included 3 screen shots with some of the important parts in red since you seem to have a hard time searching...
    I'm quite adept at researching when the need arises, but that's not how a debate works. I did research and came to my conclusions, and then provided you with resources to back it up. You just made claims with no evidence, and I'm not going to do your job too. I am glad to see you finally posted some references, and yes, I did give them all (except for two videos, which I'll comment about later) an honest, open minded consideration.

    I think we can agree that ISO handling is different in digital photography compared to film. I'll even concede that it may be better to rename it to something like "gain." I will still contend that the correct ISO setting in cameras matters and is most certainly part of the exposure triangle. I'll point out that your own sources have multiple examples where changing the in camera ISO setting is preferable over changing it in post for the optimal exposure. There were also valid comments pointing out some errors in the original article/videos on how ISO gain works. At best, your argument may boil down to semantics, but to the casual user, ISO matters.

    The two videos I didn't watch were the ones by Theoria and Tony. Theoria was just too patronizing and expletive laden for me to watch. Tony is just bad about spreading false and misleading info. One of the best (worst?) examples is his attempt to claim the f-stop needs to be multiplied by a crop factor (like focal length to calculate the field of view compared to full frames) on crop sensor cameras.



    I take offense at the “blatant lie” comment, but shrug it off as most likely coming from a emotional challenged person perhaps or someone that is simply not capable of understanding some basics regarding digital photography.
    My blatant lie comment was contextual in that until now you have not been able to back up any of your claims. It was not an insult like calling me emotionally challenged. The same goes for my ignorant comment, which just means not informed and doesn't relate to intellectual capabilities. Might I remind you that personal attacks are against the rules here.
    RaRa85 likes this.
    06-28-2019 11:54 AM
  6. DogEarsAZ's Avatar
    Installed the Google Camera APK to test the night mode against OnePlus implementation. This is the home office and right now it's about 90% no light. Only light sources in the room are monitors and some bias lighting behind the main one.

    The actual color of the floor is in between these 2 shots. The OnePlus is saturating it heavily and GCam taking away a bit. Black lab is black
    OnePlus
    OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-img_20190628_212159.jpg

    GCam
    OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-img_20190628_212242.jpg


    No editing done here. The GCam colors are much more accurate and the overall image is better. OnePlus has some work to do in order to catch up IMO.

    I'm curious now on shots in full light, I'll take some more comparisons tomorrow.
    RaRa85 likes this.
    06-28-2019 11:39 PM
  7. RaRa85's Avatar
    Installed the Google Camera APK to test the night mode against OnePlus implementation. This is the home office and right now it's about 90% no light. Only light sources in the room are monitors and some bias lighting behind the main one.

    The actual color of the floor is in between these 2 shots. The OnePlus is saturating it heavily and GCam taking away a bit. Black lab is black
    OnePlus
    Click image for larger version. 

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    GCam
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	304905


    No editing done here. The GCam colors are much more accurate and the overall image is better. OnePlus has some work to do in order to catch up IMO.

    I'm curious now on shots in full light, I'll take some more comparisons tomorrow.
    Yeah you can tell the colors are too saturated in the Nightscape one.
    06-29-2019 01:09 AM
  8. RaRa85's Avatar
    Stopped at a little freeway spot to test out the Nightscape feature. I noticed it's gone back to capturing a lot more quickly again unlike the first couple times I tried it after the update. Last three captured in pro mode with no edits. The pro mode shots really came out so clean using a low ISO.
    DogEarsAZ likes this.
    06-29-2019 01:13 AM
  9. Fred98TJ's Avatar
    The shutter speed was still 13 seconds. So the difference in ISO (which controls light sensitivity) is why one shot does not need to be exposure corrected vs the one where I just attempted to see how much information I could recover from overexposing. The ISO was the only difference between the nice photos (ISO 100) and a hot mess (ISO 3200).
    I didn't read through all the material you provided but I think this real world example pretty much debunks any claims that ISO is not part of the exposure triangle. At least from a general "what you see" standpoint anyway. All that other information does not matter in terms of actually capturing an image whether it's called brightening or otherwise and makes the overall understanding of exposure much more confusing than needed. That's why no one shoots at high ISO on a bright sunny day.
    Again, ISO (in digital photography) does not control light sensitivity. It has nothing to do with exposure and does not and con not change the sensitivity of the sensor. That is set and baked in at time of manufacture.

    I’m including some screen shots for those who may not wish to read (or unable the understand the context) the also link article.
    Actually there are links within that article with some other excellent resources, though, I suspect, to technical for some here.

    This, and the additional links it provides, is an excellent explanation of many areas of digital photography that a lot of people simply don’t understand or are uninformed or uneducated about it (which is fine of course).
    Understanding digital photography can only make one a better photographer or at least help one make “better” photographs. Also it will help one to understand why a result didn’t turn out as expected.
    Anyway I’ll stop here. Y’all can believe whatever you want or take some time to become informed. To me it doesn’t matter.


    ISO and Digital Cameras, ISO Myths www.Clarkvision.com
    Attached Thumbnails OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-6ea8cd25-d834-4787-9442-5a3d1ef59286.jpg   OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-acc9ed33-b4e6-4087-a821-66e10689be3e.jpg   OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-f7f3df78-b29e-4245-837f-21bb78dfc470.jpg   OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-21641bbf-a76e-4624-96dc-ba1f0e9cf56b.jpg   OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-d410ecc0-be92-4cb5-86d1-c47e48f10321.jpg  

    06-30-2019 07:24 AM
  10. RaRa85's Avatar


    Understanding digital photography can only make one a better photographer or at least help one make “better” photographs. Also it will help one to understand why a result didn’t turn out as expected.
    [/url]
    This is what I'll say. If the point is to make one a better photographer, this information is not helpful but actually more harmful. You're bringing up theories and terminology. I showed a simple example (an actual picture) that was not my desired outcome. I immediately knew what setting on my phone to change to get the desired outcome. The application shows that I know exactly what I'm doing in terms of what I want to do. So no, I'm not reading through that crap. Again here's a real world example and not theories about ISO gain or signal to noise ratios or whatever. It does not help me take a better photograph because I already did without that information. Everything was the same in the two photos except for the one setting(I'm not even going to say it) and the person controlling the sparkler light source.

    What you're doing is the equivalent of telling someone the brakes on a car is not what slows it down but actually a velocity decreasing timer mechanism. If the car slows down when you press the brakes do you think the driver really cares? And I'll tell you this, no professional photographer who may not have a grasp of whatever the graphs and theories explains cares. They just go out and take pictures , great pictures that appear in magazines and billboards. I didn't know any of what you shared and did I reach a better conclusion in my picture? Anyone with eyes can say I did.
    Mooncatt likes this.
    06-30-2019 08:21 AM
  11. cert15z's Avatar
    A sunny day pic.
    Attached Thumbnails OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-8411.jpg  
    RaRa85 likes this.
    06-30-2019 06:21 PM
  12. RaRa85's Avatar
    A sunny day pic.
    Nice.
    cert15z likes this.
    06-30-2019 06:39 PM
  13. Fr0gburp3r's Avatar
    After an afternoon Florida shower.
    RaRa85 and cert15z like this.
    06-30-2019 07:03 PM
  14. RaRa85's Avatar
    Well since the Moment app is nowhere to be found at the moment, I went ahead and got Filmic Pro and I just say for video the app brings so much to the phone and really pushes the possibilities a lot further. Still learning how to use it and I'll have to get another gimbal that can handle a higher payload for use with at least one ND filter. The SmoothQ I currently have can handle the phone by itself at most.
    07-01-2019 09:36 AM
  15. Fr0gburp3r's Avatar
    Well since the Moment app is nowhere to be found at the moment, I went ahead and got Filmic Pro and I just say for video the app brings so much to the phone and really pushes the possibilities a lot further. Still learning how to use it and I'll have to get another gimbal that can handle a higher payload for use with at least one ND filter. The SmoothQ I currently have can handle the phone by itself at most.[IMG=780x360]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190701/2552abb83a251a812eb8dd3ed9a4d62b.jpg[/url]
    I attempted to use Filmic Pro but it was very buggy on the OP7P.
    RaRa85 likes this.
    07-01-2019 10:19 AM
  16. RaRa85's Avatar
    I attempted to use Filmic Pro but it was very buggy on the OP7P.
    Oh wow. I haven't ran into any issues as of yet except it refusing to load up one time but nothing that would affect the quality.
    07-01-2019 10:38 AM
  17. Fr0gburp3r's Avatar
    Oh wow. I haven't ran into any issues as of yet except it refusing to load up one time but nothing that would affect the quality.
    It doesn't allow me to record in 4k 60fps Filmic extreme. The max it allows is 30fps. The viewfinder is constantly freezing.
    RaRa85 likes this.
    07-01-2019 12:27 PM
  18. RaRa85's Avatar
    It doesn't allow me to record in 4k 60fps Filmic extreme. The max it allows is 30fps. The viewfinder is constantly freezing.
    Oh yeah I did see that limitation as far the frame rate but I wanted it for the lower frame rate and other manual control options anyway.
    07-01-2019 12:51 PM
  19. Fr0gburp3r's Avatar
    Sunset after our kickball game at the park. Using Nightscape.
    RaRa85 and cert15z like this.
    07-01-2019 08:41 PM
  20. RaRa85's Avatar
    Yesterday's sunset shot with the telephoto lens.
    cert15z and Fr0gburp3r like this.
    07-01-2019 08:44 PM
  21. RaRa85's Avatar
    Back to a favorite shooting spot of mine. Went for a dark, moody look with this one. Both Lightroom edits from 48mp RAW.
    Fr0gburp3r likes this.
    07-02-2019 11:31 AM
  22. RaRa85's Avatar
    Hoping to scout out some good places to setup for some long exposures for the fireworks shows tonight.
    cert15z likes this.
    07-04-2019 09:16 AM
  23. cert15z's Avatar
    Low light selfie with front camera
    Attached Thumbnails OnePlus 7/7 Pro Picture Thread-8499.jpg  
    RaRa85 likes this.
    07-04-2019 09:20 AM
  24. RaRa85's Avatar
    Low light selfie with front camera
    Hey I notice a lot of your pictures are getting uploaded sideways on here.
    07-04-2019 11:20 AM
  25. RaRa85's Avatar
    A few unedited shots. Manual mode. Wanted to go see the big show but I don't think the kids are up for it. We'll see.
    cert15z and Fr0gburp3r like this.
    07-04-2019 08:47 PM
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