07-15-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. Timelessblur's Avatar
    GOP had something to offer 2 weeks ago, and Harry Reid wouldn't even let it be heard on the Senate floor.
    The credit downgrade came on Obama's watch, and that is how history will show it.
    And I hear crickets when I mention Obama breaking the law with the changing of a law.
    Now we find out that Obamacare is going to cost the equivalent of 2.3 million jobs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Dig deeper at those numbers. It was shown a lot of those 2.3 million are people leaving the workforce because they do not have to have a job any more. It was decoupling health care from jobs.

    But do not let those pesky facts get in the way. Or the fact that the ACA is creating more jobs up than it is costing up until 2017.

    Those are facts.

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    gamefreak715 likes this.
    02-09-2014 02:35 PM
  2. pappy53's Avatar
    Dig deeper at those numbers. It was shown a lot of those 2.3 million are people leaving the workforce because they do not have to have a job any more. It was decoupling health care from jobs.

    But do not let those pesky facts get in the way. Or the fact that the ACA is creating more jobs up than it is costing up until 2017.

    Those are facts.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    ACA has not created any jobs. You need to get your "facts" from somewhere other than MSNBC. it's like "if you like your health plan and doctor, you can keep them". Lies from our leader. Now the WH is trying to spin the 2.3 million jobs report, which was put out by the CBO. Fact is, a person could have to turn down a raise, or new job, because it would make Obamacare unaffordable.
    That's the facts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-09-2014 03:01 PM
  3. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Again come same answer as before.
    Come back when the gop offers up something other then repeal.
    Right now it has been repeal and replace. I have ask more than once with What and we get crickets.

    So you say it is hurting offer a replacement. Oh wait gop has nothing. Gop shut down the government. Gop caused out debt rating to get down graded.

    Care to address the fact the gop has done nothing and I repeat nothing to help. They have wasted millions on show votes.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    They offered up several alternatives, and they were already brought up in one of the earlier Obamacare debate threads on here. A simple Google search brought them up with no trouble. Though in my opinion, what we had was better than this entire package (don't bother with the false "but even the right likes individual parts" argument), and a straight repeal would be an improvement.
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-09-2014 03:39 PM
  4. Timelessblur's Avatar
    They offered up several alternatives, and they were already brought up in one of the earlier Obamacare debate threads on here. A simple Google search brought them up with no trouble. Though in my opinion, what we had was better than this entire package (don't bother with the false "but even the right likes individual parts" argument), and a straight repeal would be an improvement.
    If you really think what we had was better than the ACA then we have miles of difference. We should of gone single payer. We need to decouple Healthcare and jobs.

    But out side of that the gop is dead I the water until they address basic things with war on women and gay rights. As long as they are hemophilia and anti gay rights then they should not be allowed to touch power.
    If you support the gop you are for being anti gay and for the war on women.



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    02-09-2014 03:56 PM
  5. pappy53's Avatar
    If you really think what we had was better than the ACA then we have miles of difference. We should of gone single payer. We need to decouple Healthcare and jobs.

    But out side of that the gop is dead I the water until they address basic things with war on women and gay rights. As long as they are hemophilia and anti gay rights then they should not be allowed to touch power.
    If you support the gop you are for being anti gay and for the war on women.



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    As I stated before, broaden your horizon beyond MSNBC.


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    02-09-2014 03:59 PM
  6. Timelessblur's Avatar
    As I stated before, broaden your horizon beyond MSNBC.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I do. But you seem to get your info from fox. Or better known as fake news.

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    02-09-2014 04:02 PM
  7. anon8126715's Avatar
    Is Obama's record available on iTunes?

    02-09-2014 07:40 PM
  8. GadgetGator's Avatar
    GOP had something to offer 2 weeks ago, and Harry Reid wouldn't even let it be heard on the Senate floor.
    The credit downgrade came on Obama's watch, and that is how history will show it.
    And I hear crickets when I mention Obama breaking the law with the changing of a law.
    Now we find out that Obamacare is going to cost the equivalent of 2.3 million jobs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You really need to watch something other than faux news. History (and reality) show that it was the GOP playing a game of chicken with our credit rating. Have you forgot already all the GOP members who were saying that blowing past the debt ceiling would be no big deal?

    People crack me up. First they complain that Obama is a "dictator" then they think he is responsible for not only what he does but what all the Republicans do too.

    Posted via Android Central App
    02-09-2014 10:17 PM
  9. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Over all, it doesn't matter who's in control of what. The fact that the government is not operating on less than it brings in is laughable, and shameful. There's no silver bullet for what to cut, either. People try to say it needs to be this, that, or the other program, but they neglect all the pork projects going on as well. There's even a book published listing tons of government waste that needs to be cut, and that would go a long ways in helping our financial standing.
    02-09-2014 10:36 PM
  10. A895's Avatar
    Relevant:

    http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com

    Posted via Android Central App
    palandri and nolittdroid like this.
    02-10-2014 04:43 AM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    Relevant:

    What the heck has Obama done so far?

    Posted via Android Central App
    They don't want to know those things. They only want to know the negative things.
    A895 likes this.
    02-10-2014 07:42 AM
  12. Mooncatt's Avatar
    There wasn't too much exceptionally noteworthy there, but I laugh on the inside every time I see mention of the new law allowing "kids" to stay on their parents health insurance until age 26. By that time, they are adults and my kids better be long gone from the home by that age.
    02-10-2014 11:08 AM
  13. pappy53's Avatar
    There wasn't too much exceptionally noteworthy there, but I laugh on the inside every time I see mention of the new law allowing "kids" to stay on their parents health insurance until age 26. By that time, they are adults and my kids better be long gone from the home by that age.
    Yeah, they need young people to sign up to pay for the plan to work, and then have the "age 26" benefit. Obama admin. is so dumb!


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    02-10-2014 11:13 AM
  14. Timelessblur's Avatar
    There wasn't too much exceptionally noteworthy there, but I laugh on the inside every time I see mention of the new law allowing "kids" to stay on their parents health insurance until age 26. By that time, they are adults and my kids better be long gone from the home by that age.

    Really?
    What do you think the cut off should be?
    Lets do some quit math here.
    22 is 4 years of college.
    24 gets you to a master degree.
    26 gets you to doctorat degree. These are min times. This does not account for things like taking an extra year to finish a degree.
    So lets get to master degree here. 25-26 gets you in the 1-2 extra years to get due to major change or other things that come up like taking a year off to figure out what they want to do.

    But lets get away from just take. Obama has done more for gay rights over his time than the other combined. Did away with DOMA, got ride of DADT. Gives basic protections that married couples get to gays. Undid damage that Bush 2 did to gay rights. Care to address the fact that the GOP is homophobic? Until that changes the GOP should never be allowed to touch power.

    Ended "pre existing" conditions. End being a woman being a pre existing condition. Did more for women's health and rights than the GOP ever has.
    Finally got immigrations reform moving. Started moving education reform forward.
    02-10-2014 11:45 AM
  15. pappy53's Avatar
    What has he done for women's health and rights?


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    02-10-2014 11:48 AM
  16. A895's Avatar
    There wasn't too much exceptionally noteworthy there, but I laugh on the inside every time I see mention of the new law allowing "kids" to stay on their parents health insurance until age 26. By that time, they are adults and my kids better be long gone from the home by that age.
    You can say that now. I'm in college now and I have no health insurance. Can't afford it. How will they afford it?

    Posted via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    02-10-2014 12:24 PM
  17. pappy53's Avatar
    You can say that now. I'm in college now and I have no health insurance. Can't afford it. How will they afford it?

    Posted via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    My point is that young people enrolling is CRITICAL to the success of Obamacare, and a huge portion of this segment has been nullified by the age 26 benefit. If enough young people don't enroll, the whole program will fail, unless it gets a taxpayer bailout. Also, it looks like it will fall way short of the March 31 goal, so that spells more problems. I don't think that a bailout would be fair to the American people.
    02-10-2014 12:31 PM
  18. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    Really?
    Timelessblur, you need to start by realizing not everyone has the same expectations and ambitions relative to their children. Some parents are less concerned with when exactly their kids are out the door; others are incredibly fixated on that. I've known of people who literally came home from high school graduation to find their belongings on the front lawn and a note on the door saying, effectively, "Have a nice life." You cannot directly address this element of the argument without truly understanding whom you are talking to.

    What do you think the cut off should be?
    Lets do some quit math here.
    22 is 4 years of college.
    24 gets you to a master degree.
    26 gets you to doctorat degree. These are min times. This does not account for things like taking an extra year to finish a degree.
    So lets get to master degree here. 25-26 gets you in the 1-2 extra years to get due to major change or other things that come up like taking a year off to figure out what they want to do.
    Associates is 2 years. Bachelors is 2 years beyond that, and Masters is 2 years beyond that. However, a Ph.D. / Ed.D. is a MINIMUM of 3 years, and in most cases more like 4-5 years, beyond a Masters.

    While I think I agree with you in general sentiment, you are wrong on a number of facts. DOMA is still the law of the land, and Obama has no authority to do away with it or any other law. The fact that Eric Holder and Mark Herring have both decided they will not enforce the law within their respective areas of jurisdiction is not the same thing as the law being repealed. In fact, it is dereliction of duty on their parts to take such a stand, it should be considered an act of contempt of Congress, and may in fact be otherwise a violation of law or statutes, and even though I wish the law did not exist and would certainly vote to have it repealed, the fact is they should both be arrested, charged, and go to jail for their actions. Both Obama and Terry McAuliffe should face impeachment for not removing them.

    The GOP is still crumbling. They have lost a lot of members (including me) for what I regard as their bad -- or at least bad faith -- acts over the years. Perhaps in another reality I would take the position that it's great to "be an independent" and vote for whomever is the best candidate from whichever party. However, you will never see me vote for anyone who is affiliated with either the Democrats or Republicans, ever again. (I would make Ron Paul the lone, singular exception to this, but doubtless he will not bother trying to run again.)
    02-10-2014 12:36 PM
  19. palandri's Avatar
    ....While I think I agree with you in general sentiment, you are wrong on a number of facts. DOMA is still the law of the land, and Obama has no authority to do away with it or any other law. The fact that Eric Holder and Mark Herring have both decided they will not enforce the law within their respective areas of jurisdiction is not the same thing as the law being repealed. In fact, it is dereliction of duty on their parts to take such a stand, it should be considered an act of contempt of Congress, and may in fact be otherwise a violation of law or statutes, and even though I wish the law did not exist and would certainly vote to have it repealed, the fact is they should both be arrested, charged, and go to jail for their actions. Both Obama and Terry McAuliffe should face impeachment for not removing them.....
    Mike, many states have criminal laws on the books that aren't enforced like, "It is illegal to sleep naked". You can look through them here: Dumb Laws, Stupid Laws: We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws! It's not a dereliction of duty to not enforce them.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    02-10-2014 12:49 PM
  20. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    My point is that young people enrolling is CRITICAL to the success of Obamacare, and a huge portion of this segment has been nullified by the age 26 benefit. If enough young people don't enroll, the whole program will fail, unless it gets a taxpayer bailout. Also, it looks like it will fall way short of the March 31 goal, so that spells more problems. I don't think that a bailout would be fair to the American people.
    Let's assume that people were no longer covered by parent-issuing insurance as of midnight on their 18th birthday.

    As I see it, Obamacare would still fail, to use your criteria, because most people I've ever known in the 18-26 age range simply DO NOT have particularly well-paying jobs. In fact, a good percentage of people in that age range who don't come from slums or other low-income backgrounds/areas are typically college-bound (whether purpose-driven or not) and are lucky to make ends meet as it is.

    Therefore, these people are mostly all going to have to be subsidized anyhow, as they in majority will still be at or below the poverty line based on their own income.
    palandri likes this.
    02-10-2014 12:49 PM
  21. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Timelessblur, you need to start by realizing not everyone has the same expectations and ambitions relative to their children. Some parents are less concerned with when exactly their kids are out the door; others are incredibly fixated on that. I've known of people who literally came home from high school graduation to find their belongings on the front lawn and a note on the door saying, effectively, "Have a nice life." You cannot directly address this element of the argument without truly understanding whom you are talking to.)
    Any one who does that mean I their kids are scum and should never of had kids and as such not worth considering. To me their is a special place in hell who throw all the kids stuff out and say have a nice life.

    Let's go with the majority. A majority of parents support their kids. I am not saying paying for school but would help out in the ways they can. Often times that is a place to stay, insurance and basic things.

    I agree both parties suck and I honestly tend to try to avoid voting for either of them.
    I will never vote for gop until they end their war on women and gays. Until then they should never be allowed in power again. Those are fundamental reasons.



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    02-10-2014 12:51 PM
  22. pappy53's Avatar
    Let's assume that people were no longer covered by parent-issuing insurance as of midnight on their 18th birthday.

    As I see it, Obamacare would still fail, to use your criteria, because most people I've ever known in the 18-26 age range simply DO NOT have particularly well-paying jobs. In fact, a good percentage of people in that age range who don't come from slums or other low-income backgrounds/areas are typically college-bound (whether purpose-driven or not) and are lucky to make ends meet as it is.

    Therefore, these people are mostly all going to have to be subsidized anyhow, as they in majority will still be at or below the poverty line based on their own income.
    Add to that the notion of young people that they will live forever and don't need insurance, and it further multiplies the problem. The largest part of enrollments so far has been the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions, and a lot of Medicaid (which adds nothing to the pot since it is free). The program is on a road to failure, and Harry Reid will not even entertain any GOP ideas (and this is after Obama told the GOP to present some ideas). It is entirely political with the WH.
    02-10-2014 01:00 PM
  23. pappy53's Avatar
    I will never vote for gop until they end their war on women
    Please describe this "war on women". What are they doing to women, besides trying to convince them to not murder their unborn child?
    02-10-2014 01:06 PM
  24. A895's Avatar
    Please describe this "war on women". What are they doing to women, besides trying to convince them to not murder their unborn child?
    Let's not get too hasty here.

    Posted via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-10-2014 01:31 PM
  25. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Really?
    What do you think the cut off should be?
    I think it should be left open to the parents. The other side of the college argument is the slacker that is making nothing of his or her life and living with their parents until middle age, or like my brother that has a decent paying job but just didn't have reason to move out until 26. I'm not going to kick my kids out simply because they graduated high school, but my level of support afterwards is dependent on their efforts to better themselves with my help. As they get older, I'll be making that known to them, and if I do have to kick them out for not upholding their end of the bargain (aka, "rent" ), it wouldn't be a surprise.

    The way the age 26 rule is being presented is that parents are obligated to keep their adult kids on the insurance, no matter what. That's setting up an unreasonable expectation in society. I'm kinda curious how long it'll be before one of these young adults is dropped from their parent's insurance and then sues the parents for doing so.

    But lets get away from just take. Obama has done more for gay rights over his time than the other combined. Did away with DOMA, got ride of DADT. Gives basic protections that married couples get to gays. Undid damage that Bush 2 did to gay rights. Care to address the fact that the GOP is homophobic? Until that changes the GOP should never be allowed to touch power.
    I'm no longer a Republican, largely because of the gay rights issue. You're gonna have to ask someone else about that one.

    Ended "pre existing" conditions. End being a woman being a pre existing condition. Did more for women's health and rights than the GOP ever has.
    Finally got immigrations reform moving. Started moving education reform forward.
    Ending pre-existing conditions at what price? I agree it should be looked into, but to simply say you can't be denied for one without considering and addressing the consequences is idiocy. All it'll result in is a large spike in premiums to offset the additional expenses on coverages.

    What immigration reform? They don't seen to be too interested in securing the Mexican border.

    We're doing home schooling in part because we don't like the government ran system, so they are gonna have to make some major changes before we are willing to put our kids in. Not window dressing.
    02-10-2014 01:40 PM
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