07-15-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. pappy53's Avatar
    If you consider that a legitimate argument against the Affordable Care Act it's probably the weakest argument one can make. They're telling insurance companies to do what they are suppose to do, pay for medical bill. If 80% of the money isn't used for medical bills, you refund it to your clients, not stick it in your pocket like a common thief.

    It makes no sense to have life saving medical insurance setup on a for profit bases, meaning the more money you take in and the less money you pay out the better. That's how capitalism works.
    So you don't think that insurance companies should be on a for-profit basis? Then someone should tell all of the insurers of autos, property, life, homes, mortgages, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's not what you meant and you know it.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Please enlighten me as to what I meant.
    05-24-2014 12:32 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    So you don't think that insurance companies should be on a for-profit basis? Then someone should tell all of the insurers of autos, property, life, homes, mortgages, etc.
    I'm more or less with the other people that said that regular preventative care shouldn't be covered by insurance companies at all. If we were just buying insurance for emergencies, like we do with home, auto, life, etc... then the concept of regulations would be similarly applicable. Since we use insurance for physicals, checkups, prescriptions, etc - I'd be MOST in favor of people just managing those costs themselves and having insurance not touch any of it.... but since we know how bad people are at making good savings decisions, maybe having them pay that money into a personal medical savings account, such as a flex plan would make more sense. There are other options, the choices aren't only Government, HMOs or Anarchy. HMOs aren't necessary at all and many countries do just fine without them. I'd love to have a real conversation about alternative approaches, but as long as we have a Congress that is owned by the insurance companies at "vote on the healthcare bill time"... we're going to get the plan the insurance companies want, which is the ACA.

    Pappy the reason I quote you on this, is you seem to be at least partially stating that the insurance companies got screwed on this - which I have two objections to.

    1. They made the plan, they're the only winners here. Almost everyone else is getting screwed, though the ACA is undoubtedly helpful to a lot of people's personal situations, it's directly harmful to others and more importantly it's harmful to the country. That being said, it's still preferable to some other solutions.

    2. We shouldn't care if the insurance companies are hurt. The market will elevate and deflate players naturally based on the demand for their services. If they're obsolete, we should let them die and wish them well while we help them on their way. If we came up with "the best" solution, and it benefited most americans and the country and economy as a whole but the insurance companies got burnt at the stake to make that possible... light that match. We have no skin in their game and they SHOULD have skin in ours, but the ACA does a lot to make them immune to the natural market.
    05-24-2014 12:46 PM
  3. pappy53's Avatar
    We shouldn't care if the insurance companies are hurt.
    A problem with that is that taxpayers will bail them out if they get in trouble.
    05-24-2014 01:05 PM
  4. pappy53's Avatar
    We shouldn't care if the insurance companies are hurt.
    A problem with that is that taxpayers will bail them out if they get in trouble.
    Pappy the reason I quote you on this, is you seem to be at least partially stating that the insurance companies got screwed on this
    No, the public got screwed, IMO. People had perfectly good healthcare plans that were arbitrarily deemed "no good" by the administration. Now, let me say that there were some crappy plans out there, but probably were in the minority. So, these people got canceled, and had to go to a plan with more than likely higher premiums, or if not, then absolutely much higher deductibles. Have you looked at the deductibles on the most popular plans? Astronomical! And these are paid before anything else, from what I understand. How will people afford it? And word is drifting around now that people will have to pay taxes on their subsidies.
    05-24-2014 01:15 PM
  5. phoneaddict78's Avatar
    Although, that's not what Faux News is telling the sheep......
    How much did the website cost the taxpayers?

    Sent from my LG-LS980 using AC Forums mobile app
    05-24-2014 01:19 PM
  6. phoneaddict78's Avatar
    The website is a portal, healthcare is not actually run by the government.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I know that. What I was saying that anything the US federal government gets involved in is expensive. When you have a country that is as far in debt as it is things should be done different.

    Sent from my LG-LS980 using AC Forums mobile app
    05-24-2014 01:23 PM
  7. A895's Avatar
    I know that. What I was saying that anything the US federal government gets involved in is expensive. When you have a country that is as far in debt as it is things should be done different.

    Sent from my LG-LS980 using AC Forums mobile app
    Yes it us expensive to try to keep a country with almost half a billion people running anything close to smoothly. Believe me when I say that website was one of the cheapest expenses by the government last year.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    msndrstood likes this.
    05-24-2014 02:51 PM
  8. anon8126715's Avatar
    How much did the website cost the taxpayers?

    Sent from my LG-LS980 using AC Forums mobile app
    Well lets see, I'm a tax payer, and I don't remember having to write out a separate check. When people claim, "That's costing the tax payers ____", what exactly does that mean? How much money is our bloated defense spending costing us in comparison? Do you know how much military equipment we have stockpiled that just sits somewhere in storage?

    Now I also agree that the government's attempts with the ACA website was laughable, but to me it was just another right-wing talking point. When you consider how much traffic that website had to deal with in such a short period of time, I can see why it had issues. If you recall this past black Friday, even Walmart's website crashed because of the excess traffic. I guess I can use your expression, "Do you know how much that cost Walmart shoppers?!?!?!"

    If that website's early issues is the best argument you have against the ACA then I can't help but wonder if you're just falling for the generated calamity of the right-wing. Dial down the noise being generated by the right and Faux news, and look at it objectively.

    One of the reasons our country is in the shape it's in right now is that we're all falling victims to the noise being generated by the left and the right. We've put rational and critical thinking on cruise control and have decided to let the pundits' talking points become our voice. Do you know what else opens its mouth and has someone else's voice coming out of it?





    Should Obama be impeached?-ventriloquist.jpg




    Oh and before someone chimes in with, "OMG are you calling him a dummy??" I'm calling EACH and EVERY ONE OF US a dummy when we bypass our own critical thinking and only spew talking points from our respective camp.
    05-24-2014 03:46 PM
  9. pappy53's Avatar
    If that website's early issues is the best argument you have against the ACA then I can't help but wonder if you're just falling for the generated calamity of the right-wing. Dial down the noise being generated by the right and Faux news, and look at it objectively.
    You are absolutely obsessed with the right and Fox news, aren't you?
    05-24-2014 04:18 PM
  10. palandri's Avatar
    No, the public got screwed, IMO. People had perfectly good healthcare plans that were arbitrarily deemed "no good" by the administration. ...
    Lend your opinion to this, "Providers of "mini-med" policies, like McDonalds, which caps benefits at $2,000 to $10,000 depending on the annual premium". How many days in the hospital do you think that would cover?, and you are calling that a perfectly good health care plan. Think again.
    05-24-2014 04:45 PM
  11. anon8126715's Avatar
    Lend your opinion to this, "Providers of "mini-med" policies, like McDonalds, which caps benefits at $2,000 to $10,000 depending on the annual premium". How many days in the hospital do you think that would cover?, and you are calling that a perfectly good health care plan. Think again.
    The only part of this post that I disagree with is the "again" part at the end.....
    palandri likes this.
    05-24-2014 04:58 PM
  12. anon8126715's Avatar
    You are absolutely obsessed with the right and Fox news, aren't you?
    I'm not the one spewing their talking points, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

    As far as MSNBC goes, I can't say I'm a big fan of theirs either, although this is pretty much the reaction I get when I don't agree with what the right is saying. As Palandri says, I must be some sort of "left-wing pinko, freedom hating anti-American", when I don't let a news organization spoon feed me my thoughts.
    palandri and A895 like this.
    05-24-2014 05:02 PM
  13. rexxman's Avatar
    I am absolutely thankful for your results. Praise the Lord for that surgery. But that doesn't change the fact that the people were lied to with the two statements that I earlier posted.
    Thanks for the thanks!

    Considering that 'I' am in the set 'the people', you cannot make a truthful claim that 'the people' were misled by losing access to providers, or, costs did not go down.

    And let's be honest here. If you have dealt with medical insurance for any extended length of time, you have already experienced, that plans can and do change year to year.

    But I always, kept my plan.

    So let's stop the spin.

    Posted via Android Central App
    palandri and A895 like this.
    05-24-2014 05:05 PM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    .... As Palandri says, I must be some sort of "left-wing pinko, freedom hating anti-American", when I don't let a news organization spoon feed me my thoughts.
    LOL, I remember during Vietnam, the right use to take the peace symbol, turn it sideways and walk it across a leaflet and called it the track of the Amerrican Chicken.
    05-24-2014 05:26 PM
  15. phoneaddict78's Avatar
    Well lets see, I'm a tax payer, and I don't remember having to write out a separate check. When people claim, "That's costing the tax payers ____", what exactly does that mean? How much money is our bloated defense spending costing us in comparison? Do you know how much military equipment we have stockpiled that just sits somewhere in storage?

    Now I also agree that the government's attempts with the ACA website was laughable, but to me it was just another right-wing talking point. When you consider how much traffic that website had to deal with in such a short period of time, I can see why it had issues. If you recall this past black Friday, even Walmart's website crashed because of the excess traffic. I guess I can use your expression, "Do you know how much that cost Walmart shoppers?!?!?!"

    If that website's early issues is the best argument you have against the ACA then I can't help but wonder if you're just falling for the generated calamity of the right-wing. Dial down the noise being generated by the right and Faux news, and look at it objectively.

    One of the reasons our country is in the shape it's in right now is that we're all falling victims to the noise being generated by the left and the right. We've put rational and critical thinking on cruise control and have decided to let the pundits' talking points become our voice. Do you know what else opens its mouth and has someone else's voice coming out of it?





    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ventriloquist.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	13.8 KB 
ID:	119805




    Oh and before someone chimes in with, "OMG are you calling him a dummy??" I'm calling EACH and EVERY ONE OF US a dummy when we bypass our own critical thinking and only spew talking points from our respective camp.
    It's a pretty simple question. Once again, how much did the website cost that didn't work?

    Sent from my LG-LS980 using AC Forums mobile app
    05-24-2014 05:43 PM
  16. anon8126715's Avatar
    LOL, I remember during Vietnam, the right use to take the peace symbol, turn it sideways and walk it across a leaflet and called it the track of the Amerrican Chicken.
    Is this the part where I'm supposed to do like the original Diehard movie, where the 2 FBI agents (Agent Johnson, Agent Johnson, we're not related) are flying in helicopters to attack the terrorists and the older terrorist says to the younger one, "Just like bleepin' Saigon, hey, Slick?", and I reply with, "I was in junior high, bleephead."

    Actually though, I wasn't even in Jr. High nor elementary school.

    And it's kind of sad that you have a bunch of older males generally trying to instigate war. After all John McCain allegedly went through, I find it difficult to see him do all his saber rattling. It seems like he wants to get involved militarily with EVERY incursion around the world. You'd think he were a little more diplomatic given how his story should give him a unique perspective on the ravages of war. Kind of feels weird questioning someone's service, but his military service to this country doesn't reconcile to his thirst for military intervention.
    palandri likes this.
    05-24-2014 05:57 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    It's a pretty simple question. Once again, how much did the website cost that didn't work?

    Sent from my LG-LS980 using AC Forums mobile app
    I don't know how much did Faux news tell you that it cost? How much did the GOP lead government shutdown cost and how does that compare to this website?
    05-24-2014 06:07 PM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    This isn't the group I work with, but the general idea is similar...



    One of the few ideas in the US that has ACTUAL Bipartisan support.
    05-24-2014 06:10 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    This isn't the group I work with, but the general idea is similar...



    One of the few ideas in the US that has ACTUAL Bipartisan support.
    While I in complete agreement with the video, I heard a lot of key words that the right wing have deemed "toxic". The phrases "One Percent" (they prefer "Job Creators") and "people are not corporations" are foreign concepts to the right wing. I can't help wonder if this really does have bipartisan support. It would be nice if it did, but even the video itself shows the supreme court justices split along partisan lines with regards to Citizens United.

    I personally think the only way we're going to get America back on its feet is campaign finance reform. The sooner we can see the money trail, the better off we'll be. We also need our politicians to make public what lobbyists they meet with. And the final bit of reform we need is when a public official retires, they should be barred from working for ANY entity that actively lobbys those currently in office. (Oh and maybe term limits would be nice for some of these career politicians).
    05-24-2014 07:09 PM
  20. pappy53's Avatar
    Lend your opinion to this, "Providers of "mini-med" policies, like McDonalds, which caps benefits at $2,000 to $10,000 depending on the annual premium". How many days in the hospital do you think that would cover?, and you are calling that a perfectly good health care plan. Think again.
    You left out this part: " Now, let me say that there were some crappy plans out there, but probably were in the minority." Keep spinning!
    05-24-2014 07:38 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    While I in complete agreement with the video, I heard a lot of key words that the right wing have deemed "toxic". The phrases "One Percent" (they prefer "Job Creators") and "people are not corporations" are foreign concepts to the right wing. I can't help wonder if this really does have bipartisan support. It would be nice if it did, but even the video itself shows the supreme court justices split along partisan lines with regards to Citizens United.

    I personally think the only way we're going to get America back on its feet is campaign finance reform. The sooner we can see the money trail, the better off we'll be. We also need our politicians to make public what lobbyists they meet with. And the final bit of reform we need is when a public official retires, they should be barred from working for ANY entity that actively lobbys those currently in office. (Oh and maybe term limits would be nice for some of these career politicians).
    Its going to take a constitutional amendment. Three states have passed measures of some kind and a dozen more are in progress.

    XTNiT-1060 through spacetime.
    05-24-2014 07:38 PM
  22. pappy53's Avatar
    Thanks for the thanks!

    Considering that 'I' am in the set 'the people', you cannot make a truthful claim that 'the people' were misled by losing access to providers, or, costs did not go down.

    And let's be honest here. If you have dealt with medical insurance for any extended length of time, you have already experienced, that plans can and do change year to year.

    But I always, kept my plan.

    So let's stop the spin.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Could everyone keep their plan and/or their doctors. Did families see a $2500 decrease? No, so I am not spinning.
    05-24-2014 07:41 PM
  23. pappy53's Avatar
    I don't know how much did Faux news tell you that it cost? How much did the GOP lead government shutdown cost and how does that compare to this website?
    Actually, I think that the shutdown cost less.
    05-24-2014 07:42 PM
  24. anon8126715's Avatar
    You left out this part: " Now, let me say that there were some crappy plans out there, but probably were in the minority." Keep spinning!
    He did ask a valid question that you avoided all together. Do you think a policy that covers only $2000-$10,000 in hospital costs is acceptable?
    05-24-2014 07:45 PM
  25. pappy53's Avatar
    Lend your opinion to this, "Providers of "mini-med" policies, like McDonalds, which caps benefits at $2,000 to $10,000 depending on the annual premium". How many days in the hospital do you think that would cover?, and you are calling that a perfectly good health care plan. Think again.
    You need to think again. Where did I state that is was a perfectly good plan?
    05-24-2014 07:55 PM
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