07-15-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Your comment ignores the fact that these jobs are in rural areas, not cities so there's a geographical relocation component to this for many people as well.
    I know it isn't a cure all, but it is something that would help. Besides, there's lots of jobs in the cities too with an illegal component. Landscaping, construction, and meat packing plants come to mind right off the bat. Of course this also means the government needs to do its job cracking down on these businesses to free up those jobs. Make it undesirable for businesses to employ illegals and they will start hiring legal residents.
    07-10-2014 05:10 PM
  2. SteveISU's Avatar
    I know it isn't a cure all, but it is something that would help. Besides, there's lots of jobs in the cities too with an illegal component. Landscaping, construction, and meat packing plants come to mind right off the bat. Of course this also means the government needs to do its job cracking down on these businesses to free up those jobs. Make it undesirable for businesses to employ illegals and they will start hiring legal residents.
    Half the dish washers in a restaurants kitchen.
    07-10-2014 05:14 PM
  3. toober's Avatar
    Next you fail to realize that many of these kids don't know where home is. So how are you suppose to return them there? What's your father's name? "Papi". Where do you live? " Mi Casa". Those are the types of responses you get with young children.
    That's when you take that little piece of paper from their pocket, the one with the name and number of a friend or relative in the US, and find out who the kid is and where they come from.
    07-10-2014 06:06 PM
  4. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I'd just start loading them on a plane and shipping them back in thirds to the respective countries. Fast turn around back to where they came from will likely be a decent deterrent.
    I don't really want my taxes going to plane fare...this is not even close to a viable solution.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-10-2014 07:33 PM
  5. pappy53's Avatar
    I don't really want my taxes going to plane fare...this is not even close to a viable solution.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    I think that would be a quick and easy solution.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-10-2014 07:35 PM
  6. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I think that would be a quick and easy solution.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How? Your political party favors taxing the individual instead of corporate companies. I don't want the buck passed down to me because your people suddenly want a solution a problem they aren't equipped to motivated to deal with.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-10-2014 07:40 PM
  7. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Explain to me how my guess is wrong? Because you say it is? You don't think other countries watch what is going on in the US? A country they are trying any which way to get into? Then why now? Why is the flood occurring when our current POTUS has outwardly stated he wants immigration reform and he'll do it himself without the house or the senate?

    Kids don't know where home is or they have been told to lie, don't talk, ect. My 3yr old knows mine and my wifes first, middle, and last name. My 7yr old knew his address and phone number from age 5. Both sure as heck know they live in Illinois.
    Your guess is wrong because that is not why people are leaving. If you listen to interviews, you will hear the violence that either they are trying to escape themselves or they are sending their children away from.

    As for your kids, that's nice. You do realize you are comparing yourself to poor uneducated people with a completely different culture and life experience, right? Apples and oranges.

    Posted via Android Central App
    nolittdroid likes this.
    07-10-2014 07:42 PM
  8. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Your guess is wrong because that is not why people are leaving. If you listen to interviews, you will hear the violence that either they are trying to escape themselves or they are sending their children away from.

    As for your kids, that's nice. You do realize you are comparing yourself to poor uneducated people with a completely different culture and life experience, right? Apples and oranges.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Well said. But lets just stick them on a plane, what do we care!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-10-2014 07:51 PM
  9. pappy53's Avatar
    What we need to do right now is to secure the border and stop anymore from coming in. If you don't turn off the faucet, the water is going to continue to overfill the buckets. The 3.7 billion that Obama is wanting to hire judges would pay for a lot of plane rides to Central American airports to return these illegals. This problem was mainly brought about by Obama preaching immigration reform, which gave these people the idea that if they got here that they could stay. But he won't even move the NG to the border to stop the incoming illegals. If they are turned around at the border, then we don't have to worry about feeding them, housing them or anything else.


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    Scott7217 likes this.
    07-10-2014 08:11 PM
  10. pappy53's Avatar
    How? Your political party favors taxing the individual instead of corporate companies. I don't want the buck passed down to me because your people suddenly want a solution a problem they aren't equipped to motivated to deal with.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Your people are responsible for the problem.
    07-10-2014 08:30 PM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    How? Your political party favors taxing the individual instead of corporate companies. I don't want the buck passed down to me because your people suddenly want a solution a problem they aren't equipped to motivated to deal with.
    ALL taxes are paid by the individual. Even when corporations sure taxed, that buck is still passed down to the individual in one way or another. There's no way around it.
    If you listen to interviews, you will hear the violence that either they are trying to escape themselves or they are sending their children away from.
    After listening to some of the agents working the border, they are saying it's obvious these kids are reciting from a script and not speaking on their own.

    But let's pretend what they say is true. Why the heck is our government not declaring those countries as 3rd world waste lands and removing all relations and foreign aid from them? If any of these kids are allowed to stay, then I fully expect the government should do just that.
    07-10-2014 08:35 PM
  12. GadgetGator's Avatar
    ALL taxes are paid by the individual. Even when corporations sure taxed, that buck is still passed down to the individual in one way or another. There's no way around it.


    After listening to some of the agents working the border, they are saying it's obvious these kids are reciting from a script and not speaking on their own.
    Of course. Because clearly uneducated five six and seven year olds can read. What was I thinking?!!

    Posted via Android Central App
    nolittdroid likes this.
    07-10-2014 08:42 PM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    Your guess is wrong because that is not why people are leaving. If you listen to interviews, you will hear the violence that either they are trying to escape themselves or they are sending their children away from.

    As for your kids, that's nice. You do realize you are comparing yourself to poor uneducated people with a completely different culture and life experience, right? Apples and oranges.

    Posted via Android Central App
    So the kids don't know where home is or what their name is or their parents for that matter, but they have the wherewithal and reasoning to recognize gang and drug violence? I have a bridge for sale if you're interested? Obviously there are enough there who know where the others came from, whether they want to talk is another issue.

    Obama has shown he refuses to deport "dreamers". He doesn't need congressional approval for emergency money, but something as polarizing as immigration in an election year requires some "cover".


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-10-2014 08:43 PM
  14. pappy53's Avatar
    Of course. Because clearly uneducated five six and seven year olds can read. What was I thinking?!!

    Posted via Android Central App
    They don't have to be able to read, they can be told what to say which is citing a script.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-10-2014 08:43 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    Just curious, which border are we talking about? There are very few, if any people from Central and/or South American that are traversing the country of Mexico in order to run the border to TX, AZ, etc. Almost half of the current population of illegal (undocumented) immigrants arrived legally with temporary visas. Homeland security estimates that over 50% of America's illegal population is made up of people overstaying their visas. Obviously, that majority arrived in airports (or a few in seaports). Approximately 250,000 people actually intentionally circumvent laws to enter the US illegally. This is down from 10-15 years ago, when it was closer to 750,000 people per year. Approximately 60% of those (as of 2009, I couldn't find a more recent poll that was reliable) came from Mexico. 60% would be roughly 150,000 per year - approximately the same volume of undocumented Canadians that live in the US (note incremental vs cumulative net). Would you rather secure the southern or northern border? Either way, we'd only stop a maximum (if 100% successful) about 15-30% of undocumented immigrants with any kind of a border security solution as the other 70-85% are either flying or sailing in. If it were up to me, I'd say forget the wall and armed guards and put those resources into the airports and seaports - we'd get at least 2-4 times the return with much less physical space to patrol.
    07-10-2014 08:45 PM
  16. pappy53's Avatar
    Just curious, which border are we talking about? There are very few, if any people from Central and/or South American that are traversing the country of Mexico in order to run the border to TX, AZ, etc. Almost half of the current population of illegal (undocumented) immigrants arrived legally with temporary visas. Homeland security estimates that over 50% of America's illegal population is made up of people overstaying their visas. Obviously, that majority arrived in airports (or a few in seaports). Approximately 250,000 people actually intentionally circumvent laws to enter the US illegally. This is down from 10-15 years ago, when it was closer to 750,000 people per year. Approximately 60% of those (as of 2009, I couldn't find a more recent poll that was reliable) came from Mexico. 60% would be roughly 150,000 per year - approximately the same volume of undocumented Canadians that live in the US (note incremental vs cumulative net). Would you rather secure the southern or northern border? Either way, we'd only stop a maximum (if 100% successful) about 15-30% of undocumented immigrants with any kind of a border security solution as the other 70-85% are either flying or sailing in. If it were up to me, I'd say forget the wall and armed guards and put those resources into the airports and seaports - we'd get at least 2-4 times the return with much less physical space to patrol.
    Basically all of these children are from Central America, so they are crossing Mexico to get here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-10-2014 08:47 PM
  17. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Just curious, which border are we talking about? There are very few, if any people from Central and/or South American that are traversing the country of Mexico in order to run the border to TX, AZ, etc. Almost half of the current population of illegal (undocumented) immigrants arrived legally with temporary visas. Homeland security estimates that over 50% of America's illegal population is made up of people overstaying their visas. Obviously, that majority arrived in airports (or a few in seaports). Approximately 250,000 people actually intentionally circumvent laws to enter the US illegally. This is down from 10-15 years ago, when it was closer to 750,000 people per year. Approximately 60% of those (as of 2009, I couldn't find a more recent poll that was reliable) came from Mexico. 60% would be roughly 150,000 per year - approximately the same volume of undocumented Canadians that live in the US (note incremental vs cumulative net). Would you rather secure the southern or northern border? Either way, we'd only stop a maximum (if 100% successful) about 15-30% of undocumented immigrants with any kind of a border security solution as the other 70-85% are either flying or sailing in. If it were up to me, I'd say forget the wall and armed guards and put those resources into the airports and seaports - we'd get at least 2-4 times the return with much less physical space to patrol.
    By your own statement of nearly half the current illegals initially getting here legally, putting those resources at the airports and other points of legal entry wouldn't do anything. At that point, they are legal and free to enter. Perhaps those resources should be stationed at the immigrant's residence and follow them around to make sure they leave when their time is up? (I'm being facetious of course )
    Aquila and nolittdroid like this.
    07-10-2014 09:04 PM
  18. anon8126715's Avatar
    Just curious, which border are we talking about? There are very few, if any people from Central and/or South American that are traversing the country of Mexico in order to run the border to TX, AZ, etc. Almost half of the current population of illegal (undocumented) immigrants arrived legally with temporary visas. Homeland security estimates that over 50% of America's illegal population is made up of people overstaying their visas. Obviously, that majority arrived in airports (or a few in seaports). Approximately 250,000 people actually intentionally circumvent laws to enter the US illegally. This is down from 10-15 years ago, when it was closer to 750,000 people per year. Approximately 60% of those (as of 2009, I couldn't find a more recent poll that was reliable) came from Mexico. 60% would be roughly 150,000 per year - approximately the same volume of undocumented Canadians that live in the US (note incremental vs cumulative net). Would you rather secure the southern or northern border? Either way, we'd only stop a maximum (if 100% successful) about 15-30% of undocumented immigrants with any kind of a border security solution as the other 70-85% are either flying or sailing in. If it were up to me, I'd say forget the wall and armed guards and put those resources into the airports and seaports - we'd get at least 2-4 times the return with much less physical space to patrol.
    When the right wing talks about border security, it's usually the southern border....but no they're not the party of racism and bigotry......no not them.....
    GadgetGator, A895 and nolittdroid like this.
    07-10-2014 09:06 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    Basically all of these children are from Central America, so they are crossing Mexico to get here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I understand that this particular fiasco is regarding the sudden surge in people fleeing Central America and many of them are children, but there are many families too. All together, they're an almost comically low percentage of total immigration. Random kids leaving their home countries that do not border the US is not a big problem in the US and never has been, which is why the stupid law addressing them was written stupidly. Currently the number is averaging about 5,000 people per month. Last year it was about 3,000 people per month.

    The shortest trip from Guatemala (closest Central American country) to Texas is somewhere around 1,000 miles (following the coast via the 180). I'm assuming that 7 year olds aren't driving cars for 1,000 miles, which would only be about 18 hours of driving. Walking is out of the question, because well.. they're 7. At 3.5 mph average speed and even if they walked 20 hours a day, it'd take over two weeks. That's two weeks of food, water and shelter to figure out. Two weeks of evading the Mexican police, which will imprison them or deport them to Guatemala. Families can tackle the logistics of this. Some random kid cannot (especially ones alleged not to be able to read or recall what country they started in).

    Why is there such urgency to combat 3% of the illegal immigrant population?
    nolittdroid likes this.
    07-10-2014 09:07 PM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    By your own statement of nearly half the current illegals initially getting here legally, putting those resources at the airports and other points of legal entry wouldn't do anything. At that point, they are legal and free to enter. Perhaps those resources should be stationed at the immigrant's residence and follow them around to make sure they leave when their time is up? (I'm being facetious of course )
    Good point. Maybe we should instead focus the resources on verifying the identity and legal status of employees at the time of hiring and create strong deterrents to the hiring of those not legally allowed to work. Would a $50,000 fine per employee per week retroactive to the greater of hire date or date of status change be enough? Should be a simple equation... how much are they saving? Make the fine 100x that amount and compound it. Can't pay the fine? Okay, welcome to prison.
    Scott7217 and nolittdroid like this.
    07-10-2014 09:11 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    A third option - if things are this bad in Central America, why not allow people to utilize refugee status when fleeing? Then they're registering, it's all legal and above board, no families are being ripped apart, they're not being paid illegal wages and taking illegal jobs - everyone is winning. Is there a down side to this?
    07-10-2014 09:14 PM
  22. anon8126715's Avatar
    Is there a down side to this?

    For some people, yes there is a down side, but I touched on that in my prior post.
    07-10-2014 09:27 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    I have a lot of sympathy for people doing what they need to in order to escape a bad situation or to help their kids escapes one. It does not excuse breaking laws but we can deal with both issues separately or in a combined approach. Pretending one or the other doesn't exist is childish, IMO.

    I don't know if you know this, but I came to the United States as a child, born in another country and I couldn't have told you which one or why (I was about two and didn't speak English). I was removed from our really bad situation and moved to the US and was adopted by american parents and became a citizen. The only difference is one of prior permission. The US and Italian governments agreed to move us. That's a big difference in immigration status, but it is really easy for me to wonder why it's so different between Honduras in 2014 and Italy in 1983.

    Nexus through spacetime. Android Central Moderator.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-10-2014 09:40 PM
  24. Mooncatt's Avatar
    When the right wing talks about border security, it's usually the southern border....but no they're not the party of racism and bigotry......no not them.....
    If we had anywhere near the number of illegals crossing our northern border as we do our southern, then there would be just as much outcry for it. And watch it, the left talks about border security (or lack of it) in the same manner.

    Good point. Maybe we should instead focus the resources on verifying the identity and legal status of employees at the time of hiring and create strong deterrents to the hiring of those not legally allowed to work. Would a $50,000 fine per employee per week retroactive to the greater of hire date or date of status change be enough? Should be a simple equation... how much are they saving? Make the fine 100x that amount and compound it. Can't pay the fine? Okay, welcome to prison.
    That's pretty much been one of my main points all along. Go after the businesses. Make it undesirable to employ illegals, and that will serve as a deterrent.
    07-10-2014 10:07 PM
  25. anon8126715's Avatar
    If we had anywhere near the number of illegals crossing our northern border as we do our southern, then there would be just as much outcry for it.
    I highly doubt it. Exactly what makes you think that would be the case? Here's why I don't believe it, because there is one distinct difference between our neighbors to the north and our neighbors to the south. Here's a hint, it has to do with the color of their skin, but I'm willing to bet that you're in denial about that little fact.
    07-10-2014 10:16 PM
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