05-30-2013 10:38 PM
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  1. ItnStln's Avatar
    There is an AR that covers lying about medals, or wearing medals you haven't earned. Not sure if combat patches fall under that category. But yes, I have heard many soliders bs war stories just for the attention. Hang out in an aggieville bar by fort riley on a weekend and you're sure to hear your fair share. Or any bar near a college near a military installation for that fact.

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    If AR is Army Regulation, then I think it would be covered by Article 92 of the UCMJ, which is Failure to obey order or regulation. My thoughts are if the AR covers the wear of a combat patch then they are violating Article 92. Sorry, I am not too familiar with Army policies.

    It may be AR 380-5. I could be wrong but this regulation covers falsifying documents and such so it may be covered under this one

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    Sounds like Article 92 again. But what do I know, I am not a lawyer.

    I think there was a case just in front of the US Supreme Court that was about the constitutionality of a law the prohibited people from wearing fake ribbons. These aren't active duty soldiers, but rather civilians who would wear ribbons like in parades, and possibly (this I don't know) from misrepresenting and lying about military service. The Supreme Court struck down the law because it violated free speech. In other words, it is legal to lie about your military valor. Supreme Court Strikes Down Stolen Valor: You Can Lie About Military Service - ABC News My home state, Oregon, we had a Congressman falsely claim he was a special forces in the Korean War. Wes Cooley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    Are you talking about the Stolen Valor Act? If its Vietnam-Era records, then they have an easy outthe 1973 National Archives Fire
    05-20-2013 11:15 PM
  2. ItnStln's Avatar
    Perhaps I should have stated clearer, it is legal for a civilian to impersonate an NCO/senior officer or to lie regarding military valor. It is illegal for a service member to do so. As for your second question, I really do not know for certain.

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    I am confused now, let me try to work with this. Civilians who impersonate a military member, Officer or Enlisted, are violating Title 10 U.S. Code Chapter 45 paragraph 771. This means that they get to go to federal court, not county or state. As for lying about the valor, that has to do with the Stolen Valor Act of 2005. If a currently serving service member impersonates an officer, that is Article 134 of the UCMJ, in addition to the federal charges. As for the valor part, the closest I can come is Article 92 of the UCMJ, which is Failure to obey order or regulation. I do not know how Army regulations are written, but Air Force regulations say that you must wear all earned awards. I am guessing that the Army would have similar verbiage.

    So the way I see it is, its illegal to impersonate a military person, and to lie about valor awards for EVERYONE. I guess for an experiment I could put my fathers uniform on and walk through the US Naval Academy here in Annapolis and see what the barracks lawyers there say.
    05-20-2013 11:29 PM
  3. Paul627g's Avatar
    Bottom line its a crock. Nobody should be allowed to impersonate a police officer or military officer. These are the ones who protect our home ground here and away over seas.

    Period.
    05-21-2013 12:02 AM
  4. jdbii's Avatar
    I am confused now, let me try to work with this. Civilians who impersonate a military member, Officer or Enlisted, are violating Title 10 U.S. Code Chapter 45 paragraph 771. This means that they get to go to federal court, not county or state. As for lying about the valor, that has to do with the Stolen Valor Act of 2005. If a currently serving service member impersonates an officer, that is Article 134 of the UCMJ, in addition to the federal charges. As for the valor part, the closest I can come is Article 92 of the UCMJ, which is Failure to obey order or regulation. I do not know how Army regulations are written, but Air Force regulations say that you must wear all earned awards. I am guessing that the Army would have similar verbiage.

    So the way I see it is, its illegal to impersonate a military person, and to lie about valor awards for EVERYONE. I guess for an experiment I could put my fathers uniform on and walk through the US Naval Academy here in Annapolis and see what the barracks lawyers there say.
    You have a future as a lawyer. I think you had it pegged when you mentioned earlier that impersonating involves some proactive action like announcing you are an officer, otherwise the cop and the sailor in the Village People would have been arrested, and what about on Halloween?

    Are you talking about the Stolen Valor Act? If its Vietnam-Era records, then they have an easy outthe 1973 National Archives Fire
    Interesting. First I've heard of this. So there really must be liars out there and nobody would no since they can't check the records.
    05-21-2013 12:46 AM
  5. Topgonzo's Avatar
    Yawn. You patting yourself on the back is BORING.

    You need to think less about whether or not you are perceived as beautiful and more about what is happening to this earth by people who over consume. However much you consume, if you are knocking on obesity's door, you are over consuming for your energy expenditures and can cut back.

    Clearly, you are more self-focused than I am. I can't relate to that sort of narcissism and yes, being overly concerned about yourself, your feelings, how you are perceived, etc. and not concerned enough about the bigger picture of how your life choices affect the earth and all the species who live on this earth is narcissism. Plain and simple.
    You have summed it up exactly correct. The ones who typically argue these points are ones who aren't getting exercise and eating junk food all day.

    Posted via HTC One
    05-21-2013 06:02 AM
  6. jusmebabe's Avatar
    I agree, 100% handled incorrectly. Now, 5-6 years later with her family doubled in size and now pregnant again, is a prison term the right call?
    Yes.

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    Topgonzo and Aquila like this.
    05-21-2013 06:18 AM
  7. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    I am confused now, let me try to work with this. Civilians who impersonate a military member, Officer or Enlisted, are violating Title 10 U.S. Code Chapter 45 paragraph 771. This means that they get to go to federal court, not county or state. As for lying about the valor, that has to do with the Stolen Valor Act of 2005. If a currently serving service member impersonates an officer, that is Article 134 of the UCMJ, in addition to the federal charges. As for the valor part, the closest I can come is Article 92 of the UCMJ, which is Failure to obey order or regulation. I do not know how Army regulations are written, but Air Force regulations say that you must wear all earned awards. I am guessing that the Army would have similar verbiage.

    So the way I see it is, its illegal to impersonate a military person, and to lie about valor awards for EVERYONE. I guess for an experiment I could put my fathers uniform on and walk through the US Naval Academy here in Annapolis and see what the barracks lawyers there say.
    You may very well be correct. I thought impersonating a military member fell under freedom of speech...I need to brush up on that before I make myself seem like a fool.

    As for wearing all earned awards, I do believe some are optional and some are mandatory. I think there is a section on their ERB that states which are which. My husband was awarded his combat medical badge in Iraq and he only has to wear it on his dress blues.

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    05-21-2013 09:13 AM
  8. ItnStln's Avatar
    Bottom line its a crock. Nobody should be allowed to impersonate a police officer or military officer. These are the ones who protect our home ground here and away over seas.

    Period.
    No doubt about it!
    You have a future as a lawyer
    Why does everyone tell me that?! I just dont mind doing research.
    I think you had it pegged when you mentioned earlier that impersonating involves some proactive action like announcing you are an officer, otherwise the cop and the sailor in the Village People would have been arrested, and what about on Halloween?
    I would think that theres a difference between wearing an actual uniform thats 100% correct, versus wearing a novelty uniform.
    Interesting. First I've heard of this. So there really must be liars out there and nobody would no since they can't check the records.
    Correct! However, I would think that the opposite might be true as well. You might have a Korean War Vet (80% loss to records of U.S. Army personnel discharged November 1, 1912, to January 1, 1960) who earned a Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantryman Badge and so on, whos records were burned in the fire. More information is available HERE. I apologize, as I thought that records from Vietnam were lost too. I didnt mean to mislead you.
    You may very well be correct. I thought impersonating a military member fell under freedom of speech...I need to brush up on that before I make myself seem like a fool.
    I thought it was just illegal to impersonate a commissioned officer. It wasnt until last night that I read that it covered all pay grades. I am not sure who is right, so if you do discover anything else, please pass it along!
    Now the STOLEN VALOR ACT OF 2005 was overturned on June 18, 2012, under United States v. Alvarez because it infringed on freedom of speech. I do not agree with this! However, and I will have to look this up, I think it is still illegal to claim you were awarded the Medal of Honor, or to actually wear one, unless you were awarded it. Thatll be my project for after work.
    As for wearing all earned awards, I do believe some are optional and some are mandatory. I think there is a section on their ERB that states which are which. My husband was awarded his combat medical badge in Iraq and he only has to wear it on his dress blues.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    True, but does it say earned or authorized in the regulation? My thoughts are if youre wearing something on your uniform that you did not earn, you are violating the regulation, which is where Article 134 of the UCMJ comes into play. Now if the regulation doesnt specifically state earned or authorized, then that is a gray area. For example, on my fathers blues hes required to wear his commanders badge, per AFI36-2903 (AF Command Insignia is mandatory). On his blues shirt he is not required to wear his ribbons, as Ribbons are optional. If worn, all ribbons and devices will be worn, but if he does then Wear only authorized Air Force awards and devices when wearing ribbons and medals. (And to think I only know this because my uncle and I had a debate over the all or none rule for ribbons). I know that other branches have different rules, but I am sure that earned or authorized are still used. Sadly on the ACUs its rather easy to hide an unearned tab or combat patch because you can just pull it off because theyre velcroed, whereas on the BDUs they were sewn on. BTW, are you from Maryland, or do you have family here?
    I will be leaving for work now!
    05-21-2013 10:13 AM
  9. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    No doubt about it!

    Why does everyone tell me that?! I just dont mind doing research.

    I would think that theres a difference between wearing an actual uniform thats 100% correct, versus wearing a novelty uniform.

    Correct! However, I would think that the opposite might be true as well. You might have a Korean War Vet (80% loss to records of U.S. Army personnel discharged November 1, 1912, to January 1, 1960) who earned a Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantryman Badge and so on, whos records were burned in the fire. More information is available HERE. I apologize, as I thought that records from Vietnam were lost too. I didnt mean to mislead you.

    I thought it was just illegal to impersonate a commissioned officer. It wasnt until last night that I read that it covered all pay grades. I am not sure who is right, so if you do discover anything else, please pass it along!
    Now the STOLEN VALOR ACT OF 2005 was overturned on June 18, 2012, under United States v. Alvarez because it infringed on freedom of speech. I do not agree with this! However, and I will have to look this up, I think it is still illegal to claim you were awarded the Medal of Honor, or to actually wear one, unless you were awarded it. Thatll be my project for after work.

    True, but does it say earned or authorized in the regulation? My thoughts are if youre wearing something on your uniform that you did not earn, you are violating the regulation, which is where Article 134 of the UCMJ comes into play. Now if the regulation doesnt specifically state earned or authorized, then that is a gray area. For example, on my fathers blues hes required to wear his commanders badge, per AFI36-2903 (AF Command Insignia is mandatory). On his blues shirt he is not required to wear his ribbons, as Ribbons are optional. If worn, all ribbons and devices will be worn, but if he does then Wear only authorized Air Force awards and devices when wearing ribbons and medals. (And to think I only know this because my uncle and I had a debate over the all or none rule for ribbons). I know that other branches have different rules, but I am sure that earned or authorized are still used. Sadly on the ACUs its rather easy to hide an unearned tab or combat patch because you can just pull it off because theyre velcroed, whereas on the BDUs they were sewn on. BTW, are you from Maryland, or do you have family here?
    I will be leaving for work now!
    The army is only now implementing the sewing on of patches, but it is still at the discretion of the command. You are correct on the earned or authorized, I would have to check my husbands enlisted record brief to see under which the CMB falls under. I have a booklet somewhere with all of rules and requirments of medals and awards when pertaining to military wear. I will have to find it soon, as my husband's dress blues are in dire need of dry cleaning, meaning all ribbons and pins will have to be removed and readded later (boo.) It was nice talking with you, when I find more information on the subject, I will definitely share :-) as for Maryland, no family, but we were at Walter reed for a year. We were staying in Bethesda.

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    05-21-2013 10:44 AM
  10. ItnStln's Avatar
    The army is only now implementing the sewing on of patches, but it is still at the discretion of the command. You are correct on the earned or authorized, I would have to check my husbands enlisted record brief to see under which the CMB falls under. I have a booklet somewhere with all of rules and requirments of medals and awards when pertaining to military wear. I will have to find it soon, as my husband's dress blues are in dire need of dry cleaning, meaning all ribbons and pins will have to be removed and readded later (boo.) It was nice talking with you, when I find more information on the subject, I will definitely share :-) as for Maryland, no family, but we were at Walter reed for a year. We were staying in Bethesda.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    Likewise, it was a nice discussion. Is the Army now sewing on the unit patches, or will those still be velcroed? I only ask because the last time I was at Fort Meade, I saw some people with the rank and tapes sewn on, but the unit patches looked to still be velcroed on. I am not a fan of the way the velcro looks. It just looks tacky, but I understand the need for it to sanitize the uniform in the field. On my fathers newer flight suits, the shoulders have a huge square of velcro, and it, in my opinion, does not look professional. The older flight suits had the velcro cut to size for the flag and weapons school patch, and doesnt look as bad. Yeah, I hated when my father would bring me a dish/tray with his ribbons and badges after his dress uniform was in the cleaners. I made the mistake of offering to sew everything on his BDUs one summer I was in high school, and as you can see, apparently I volunteered for life lol. I told him that one of these days I am going to sew his eagles on backwards, but I doubt hed notice!
    I was just wondering if you were from Maryland, or had family here because I had to go to court for a speeding ticket a month or two ago and some lady had the same last name. It was funny though, because the Judge kept pronouncing it as stuff, and every time she corrected him. After the third time, the bailiff just glared at her. My buddy was with me, and he said dude, is she trying to get a contempt charge? But in the Judges defense, Julianne Hough pronounces her last name as huff. Have you seen the new hospital at Bethesda (Walter Reed National Military Medical Center)? Its nice, but the place is a maze! At least the old Walter Reed you couldnt really get lost because it was essentially a circle. I used to cringe when I had to go to Bethesda for a medical appointment.
    05-21-2013 06:40 PM
  11. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Likewise, it was a nice discussion. Is the Army now sewing on the unit patches, or will those still be velcroed? I only ask because the last time I was at Fort Meade, I saw some people with the rank and tapes sewn on, but the unit patches looked to still be velcroed on. I am not a fan of the way the velcro looks. It just looks tacky, but I understand the need for it to sanitize the uniform in the field. On my fathers newer flight suits, the shoulders have a huge square of velcro, and it, in my opinion, does not look professional. The older flight suits had the velcro cut to size for the flag and weapons school patch, and doesnt look as bad. Yeah, I hated when my father would bring me a dish/tray with his ribbons and badges after his dress uniform was in the cleaners. I made the mistake of offering to sew everything on his BDUs one summer I was in high school, and as you can see, apparently I volunteered for life lol. I told him that one of these days I am going to sew his eagles on backwards, but I doubt hed notice!
    I was just wondering if you were from Maryland, or had family here because I had to go to court for a speeding ticket a month or two ago and some lady had the same last name. It was funny though, because the Judge kept pronouncing it as stuff, and every time she corrected him. After the third time, the bailiff just glared at her. My buddy was with me, and he said dude, is she trying to get a contempt charge? But in the Judges defense, Julianne Hough pronounces her last name as huff. Have you seen the new hospital at Bethesda (Walter Reed National Military Medical Center)? Its nice, but the place is a maze! At least the old Walter Reed you couldnt really get lost because it was essentially a circle. I used to cringe when I had to go to Bethesda for a medical appointment.
    Right now it is just name tapes, us army tapes, ranks, and rank/ name on the patrol cap. I personally prefer sewn on, but it sucks when promotions come around and you have to replace uniforms, or remove old patches to replace with new ones. But then again, most uniforms don't last that long. People prenounce my name wrong allll the time. Its pronounced like st-ow, but I get stuff, stoff, st-oh, the list goes on, really, lol. Our name gets pronounced wrong every time we go to court. Its sad, really. I have a habit of correcting people, and I definitely would not like a contempt of court ;-) I personally have never been into Walter reed, but I have seen it from a distance. I have heard, however, that it is leaps and bounds better than the prior medical facility.

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    05-21-2013 09:51 PM
  12. Bob Sugar's Avatar
    ItnStln511, great job with the research.

    I have hardly read the entire thread, but if you were only citing statutes then you are missing the real meat of what the precedent is for this topic. I may have just missed it, but all I saw were statutes copy/pasted, with some interpretation offered.

    Statutes are a great starting point, but I can show you tons of statutes that are on the books, both state and federal, that are never used. If you want to see how these are utilized by the courts, you must provide case law on the specific statutes being discussed. Just because you or me or anyone reads a statute one way, does not mean the courts will read it the same. To be honest, it doesn't matter how we read the language, what matters is how the courts do, and how they have ruled.
    05-21-2013 10:47 PM
  13. ItnStln's Avatar
    Right now it is just name tapes, us army tapes, ranks, and rank/ name on the patrol cap. I personally prefer sewn on, but it sucks when promotions come around and you have to replace uniforms, or remove old patches to replace with new ones. But then again, most uniforms don't last that long. People prenounce my name wrong allll the time. Its pronounced like st-ow, but I get stuff, stoff, st-oh, the list goes on, really, lol. Our name gets pronounced wrong every time we go to court. Its sad, really. I have a habit of correcting people, and I definitely would not like a contempt of court ;-) I personally have never been into Walter reed, but I have seen it from a distance. I have heard, however, that it is leaps and bounds better than the prior medical facility.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    Yeah, it seems like each new set of flight suits or ABUs my father gets are cheaper made than the last. Its crazy, but oh well. The new Walter Reed/Bethesda is nice, its just a maze. However, the parking garage is pretty nice. Theres one pattern, and if youve been to the old Walter Reed early in the morning, youll know what Im talking about!
    Congrats on becoming a mod. Howd you do that so quick?
    And I saw THIS yesterday, and thought youd find it interesting. Disclaimer: I only skimmed through it!
    ItnStln511, great job with the research.

    I have hardly read the entire thread, but if you were only citing statutes then you are missing the real meat of what the precedent is for this topic. I may have just missed it, but all I saw were statutes copy/pasted, with some interpretation offered.

    Statutes are a great starting point, but I can show you tons of statutes that are on the books, both state and federal, that are never used. If you want to see how these are utilized by the courts, you must provide case law on the specific statutes being discussed. Just because you or me or anyone reads a statute one way, does not mean the courts will read it the same. To be honest, it doesn't matter how we read the language, what matters is how the courts do, and how they have ruled.
    I love research, and dont mind doing it at all! And I know what you meaneven though its written in black and white, the law is NOT black and white. If it were that easy, law school wouldnt be three years long, more like three weeks. I havent thought to find out how the courts ruled in the cases. Well, on the Stolen Valor Act of 2005, I did mention that it was overturned in United States v. Alvarez because Alvarez claimed that it infringed upon his freedom of speech. And youre right, ultimately what matters is what the judge or jury think. Sometimes I dont even think past rulings matter.
    05-22-2013 04:23 PM
  14. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Yeah, it seems like each new set of flight suits or ABUs my father gets are cheaper made than the last. Its crazy, but oh well. The new Walter Reed/Bethesda is nice, its just a maze. However, the parking garage is pretty nice. Theres one pattern, and if youve been to the old Walter Reed early in the morning, youll know what Im talking about!
    Congrats on becoming a mod. Howd you do that so quick?
    And I saw THIS yesterday, and thought youd find it interesting. Disclaimer: I only skimmed through it!

    I love research, and dont mind doing it at all! And I know what you meaneven though its written in black and white, the law is NOT black and white. If it were that easy, law school wouldnt be three years long, more like three weeks. I havent thought to find out how the courts ruled in the cases. Well, on the Stolen Valor Act of 2005, I did mention that it was overturned in United States v. Alvarez because Alvarez claimed that it infringed upon his freedom of speech. And youre right, ultimately what matters is what the judge or jury think. Sometimes I dont even think past rulings matter.
    You'd think these uniforms would be built to last a little longer, but I swear they tear up quicker than my sons jeans in the summer. (Ba da bing). Im guilty of skimming through it as well, sounds interesting. As for becoming a mod, thanks :-) I guess they were in need of a few helping hands and I was a good candidate. I still have to learn the ropes, but no worries, I'm still a sucker for compelling conversation!

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    Aquila likes this.
    05-22-2013 09:48 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    I guess they were in need of a few helping hands and I was a good candidate.
    I heard that it came down to who had the cutest dog(s) in the AC Pets thread. This place is SO biased, OMG
    05-22-2013 09:53 PM
  16. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    I tried to respond to this thread twice and the responses ended up in random threads around the ac, lol. Totally killed the punch line to my joke, so ill save you my lameness.

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    Aquila likes this.
    05-22-2013 10:26 PM
  17. jdbii's Avatar
    Congrats Jennifer ---------------------------------- AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Aquila and Jennifer Stough like this.
    05-23-2013 01:23 AM
  18. ItnStln's Avatar
    You'd think these uniforms would be built to last a little longer, but I swear they tear up quicker than my sons jeans in the summer. (Ba da bing). Im guilty of skimming through it as well, sounds interesting. As for becoming a mod, thanks :-) I guess they were in need of a few helping hands and I was a good candidate. I still have to learn the ropes, but no worries, I'm still a sucker for compelling conversation!

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    You're very welcome! Yeah, I don't mind a decent conversation, which is pretty rare on forums. I know, the uniforms are very "cheap," for lack of a better word. Heck, some of the flightsuits he has (like six months old), I wouldn't stand in front of an oven wearing them, and they claim you won't get burned. I told him that once, and was told something to the effect of "remember, the contract went to the lowest bidder." I guess that explains it!
    Aquila likes this.
    05-23-2013 07:03 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    You're very welcome! Yeah, I don't mind a decent conversation, which is pretty rare on forums. I know, the uniforms are very "cheap," for lack of a better word. Heck, some of the flightsuits he has (like six months old), I wouldn't stand in front of an oven wearing them, and they claim you won't get burned. I told him that once, and was told something to the effect of "remember, the contract went to the lowest bidder." I guess that explains it!
    I've heard a lot of the uniforms and materials are made in prisons. I never cared enough to look that up, but will do so now.
    05-23-2013 07:05 PM
  20. ItnStln's Avatar
    I've heard a lot of the uniforms and materials are made in prisons. I never cared enough to look that up, but will do so now.
    That actually wouldn't surprise me at all. The only thing that looks decent is his GORE-TEX parka. Perhaps if they actually put research into these uniforms, things would be different. Let me know what you find out, NothingIsTrue. Now you have me wondering if they really were made in a prison somewhere.

    @Jennifer Stough, I don't know if you were/are a fan of JAG or not, but I just watched an episode (S7E8-JAGathon) where a Petty Officer impersonated a Lieutenant.
    05-23-2013 09:15 PM
  21. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    That actually wouldn't surprise me at all. The only thing that looks decent is his GORE-TEX parka. Perhaps if they actually put research into these uniforms, things would be different. Let me know what you find out, NothingIsTrue. Now you have me wondering if they really were made in a prison somewhere.

    @Jennifer Stough, I don't know if you were/are a fan of JAG or not, but I just watched an episode (S7E8-JAGathon) where a Petty Officer impersonated a Lieutenant.
    I grew up watching JAG, as well as MASH :-)

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    05-23-2013 10:29 PM
  22. ItnStln's Avatar
    I grew up watching JAG, as well as MASH :-)

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    Both were excellent shows. I love/d JAG, and almost boycotted CBS after they killed off JAG. Sadly I liked NCIS too much. Did you ever watch Combat Hospital? It was on ABC for half a season. I believed that they tried to do a knock-off of MASH, but it didn't turn out too well.
    05-24-2013 07:52 PM
  23. gollum18's Avatar
    I could be in a similar situation. The community college I go to forces men who attend to sign up for selective service. If you don't you can't attend. I have no problem fighting in the military, it's my mother that does not want me to. But still even if there is a draft, I can't be recruited I have a pda.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 12:35 PM
  24. Jnorton2724's Avatar
    Sign up for the military and then get surprised when they ask you to deploy....uh what did she expect? Free benefits and housing for nothing?

    Why join the military if your against the war in iraq ? Kinda weird...

    Sent from my Nexus 4 via Android Central App
    05-26-2013 12:55 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Sign up for the military and then get surprised when they ask you to deploy....uh what did she expect? Free benefits and housing for nothing?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 via Android Central App
    She did go to Iraq for one tour, but fled before the second.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    05-26-2013 01:03 PM
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