06-06-2013 02:20 PM
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  1. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    I saw the word Agnostic used a few times in this thread. I'll share a funny definition of an Agnostic (I don't remember the source).

    "An Agnostic is an Atheist with commitment issues"

    Ok, so we now have discussions going on about religion and politics. Dare we go for the trifecta? :-)

    Posted via Android Central App
    I dont mind that definition.

    I was raised as a catholic on one side of the family, and seventh day Adventist on the other. I was not baptized catholic, only christened. From the Catholic church, we attended a Baptist church where I was baptized a Baptist. We switched to nondenomonational for a few years. By the time I was 12 I switched to a first assembly of god church which I attended regularly until I was 15. I did not attend for the faith, but rather, the support group and wonderful people I had in my church family. Their peace in christ by extension gave me peace even though I lacked belief. From age 8-17 I attended a seventh day adventist church camp every summer. While I still lacked belief, I returned every year because it was a place of asylum. Once again, I sought out that peace. I tried so desperately hard to feel that connection, that maybe if I kept praying and kept attending, it would "click" into place and I would be filled with that peace and serenity that everyone else seemed to have. Needless to say, it never did click into place. Life never got easier, my prayers were never answered, and I grew weary of trying so dang hard to feel something that was always out of my reach. The breaking point for me was when my sister got life in prison with no chance of parole and left her two small children to the care of my mother. That was the point in my life that I stopped trying to connect. And now, here i am. If there is a god, he is much crueler than the bible insinuates. As a 15 year old girl in high school, I could have used the calming affect of a divine being while my family was torn to pieces.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    msndrstood, jdbii, Aquila and 1 others like this.
    05-26-2013 01:05 PM
  2. llamabreath's Avatar
    This is much more civil a conversation than I would have guessed, but going to drop out while we're ahead. This is one of the most deeply personal conversations we can engage in and we all know my knack for not picking the best words... I really don't want to upset anyone. Thanks everyone for keeping it easy going!

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    I think the words you usually pick are terrific. You've gotta stop kicking yourself. I always enjoy reading your posts, on any thread.

    05-26-2013 01:06 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    I welcome all views (sometimes ), just keep it respectful, as hard as it might sometimes be.


    Why do you think i haven't really said what MY religious views are?

    msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    05-26-2013 01:10 PM
  4. MrHost's Avatar
    That statement generates a couple of questions. Don't you think what sect you belong to has a lot to do with where you're born? I mean, if you're born in the middle east, don't you think it would be more likely that you would be brought up a Muslim? or if you were born in Asia, you would more likely be brought up a Buddhist or Taoist?

    Why do you sin everyday if you know it's wrong? That really confuses me.

    Thanks!
    Your first steps of faith are defiantly based on what religious tires are around you.

    You can change religions. Your choice. Religious persecution will always happen.

    I sin because that is the human flaw. No human shall liver life without sin, except for Jesus. Even the most beloved men of God sinned but they stated true to God. There may be disagreements on what sin is because different sects have didn't thoughts on this.

    We may eventually find that those that are faithful to their God are actually understanding the same God in the end. Different books for different readers kinda thing.

    No one knows for sure. We don't find that answer out till the end/beginning.

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-26-2013 01:23 PM
  5. MikeA86's Avatar
    Why do you sin everyday if you know it's wrong? That really confuses me.

    Thanks!
    People do what they know is wrong everyday, whether it's taking a bad day out on your spouse, doing your employer wrong, speeding, pick your offense. It's human nature.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Android Central Forums
    05-26-2013 01:33 PM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    People do what they know is wrong everyday, whether it's taking a bad day out on your spouse, doing your employer wrong, speeding, pick your offense. It's human nature.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Android Central Forums
    It's human nature, yes, but don't we (as the planet's most intelligent creatures) have the power to compensate for it?


    Aquila likes this.
    05-26-2013 01:35 PM
  7. gollum18's Avatar
    It's human nature, yes, but don't we (as the planet's most intelligent creatures) have the power to compensate for it?


    You could also say that we have the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, which we do. Yet that doesn't stop people from breaking the rules society sets for us.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 01:42 PM
  8. llamabreath's Avatar
    You could also say that we have the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, which we do. Yet that doesn't stop people from breaking the rules society sets for us.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    We easily could, if we really wanted to.


    Aquila likes this.
    05-26-2013 01:50 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    I could easily not go 90mph in a 55mph zone.

    I could easily not cheat on my wife (because she would kill me with antifreeze in my drink).

    I could easily do an honest day of work.

    I could easily not rob that bank.

    I could could easily not kill my annoying neighbor.

    I could easily continue driving my Mitsubishi, instead of longing for that Mercedes.

    I could easily not park myself at a blackjack table every other day.




    Are any of these really that difficult?

    Aquila and msndrstood like this.
    05-26-2013 01:53 PM
  10. gollum18's Avatar
    Yet could you do so without repercussions from your fellow society members. Is it just to accept laws set by a government that can even pass them without businesses intervening in its daily operations.

    Business is happy enough to intervene in the government but they'll be hell to raise if the government even offers the most miniscule of opinions on how businesses should operate.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 02:23 PM
  11. badbrad17's Avatar
    I dont mind that definition.

    I was raised as a catholic on one side of the family, and seventh day Adventist on the other. I was not baptized catholic, only christened. From the Catholic church, we attended a Baptist church where I was baptized a Baptist. We switched to nondenomonational for a few years. By the time I was 12 I switched to a first assembly of god church which I attended regularly until I was 15. I did not attend for the faith, but rather, the support group and wonderful people I had in my church family. Their peace in christ by extension gave me peace even though I lacked belief. From age 8-17 I attended a seventh day adventist church camp every summer. While I still lacked belief, I returned every year because it was a place of asylum. Once again, I sought out that peace. I tried so desperately hard to feel that connection, that maybe if I kept praying and kept attending, it would "click" into place and I would be filled with that peace and serenity that everyone else seemed to have. Needless to say, it never did click into place. Life never got easier, my prayers were never answered, and I grew weary of trying so dang hard to feel something that was always out of my reach. The breaking point for me was when my sister got life in prison with no chance of parole and left her two small children to the care of my mother. That was the point in my life that I stopped trying to connect. And now, here i am. If there is a god, he is much crueler than the bible insinuates. As a 15 year old girl in high school, I could have used the calming affect of a divine being while my family was torn to pieces.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    Thanks for the honesty. I am sorry to hear about your sister. That must have been incredibly difficult and probably still is.

    If I could be so bold as to state my opinion I would say this.

    1. There is a misconception about peace and happiness. The Bible actually says more about being ridiculed and hated than it does about being happy. It does talk about peace but that is usually only mentioned after you have been through something not so pleasant. The Apostles were beaten and most were killed for their faith. This whole "become a Christian and you'll have sun shining out of your **** 24/7" is a lie and truly part of the problem. The bible says that Christ died for us so we would be free of death. It doesn't say that we will be free of pain or even suffering in this life. It isn't until later that there will be no more pain and sorrow.

    2. God is not a puppet master. There is much sadness and hurt in the world and God hated it so much that he gave his own life to have an end game. But before that end we are still caught in a world filled with lies, pain and for lack of a better word sin and evil. If you believe in God you may also believe in Satan. If there are forces at work then we would be smart to discern where the pain is coming from because the real God is not someone who is a tyrant with evil motives. This would be the other guy. We also need to realize that if God steps in to change the circumstances when there is an earthquake or a car accident, we ceased to be beings with freewill and become controlled entities. When we were created we were perfect but after sin entered we all chose to follow the path that caused bad things to happen. In the end we can have hope. There is something better to come.

    I wish you well with your family.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    05-26-2013 02:43 PM
  12. msndrstood's Avatar
    I think the words you usually pick are terrific. You've gotta stop kicking yourself. I always enjoy reading your posts, on any thread.

    Agreed. Don't leave yet. You're among friends.

    What?! ...I'm msndrstood.
    via Gnex
    jdbii and Blaize19 like this.
    05-26-2013 03:18 PM
  13. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Thanks for the honesty. I am sorry to hear about your sister. That must have been incredibly difficult and probably still is.

    If I could be so bold as to state my opinion I would say this.

    1. There is a misconception about peace and happiness. The Bible actually says more about being ridiculed and hated than it does about being happy. It does talk about peace but that is usually only mentioned after you have been through something not so pleasant. The Apostles were beaten and most were killed for their faith. This whole "become a Christian and you'll have sun shining out of your **** 24/7" is a lie and truly part of the problem. The bible says that Christ died for us so we would be free of death. It doesn't say that we will be free of pain or even suffering in this life. It isn't until later that there will be no more pain and sorrow.

    2. God is not a puppet master. There is much sadness and hurt in the world and God hated it so much that he gave his own life to have an end game. But before that end we are still caught in a world filled with lies, pain and for lack of a better word sin and evil. If you believe in God you may also believe in Satan. If there are forces at work then we would be smart to discern where the pain is coming from because the real God is not someone who is a tyrant with evil motives. This would be the other guy. We also need to realize that if God steps in to change the circumstances when there is an earthquake or a car accident, we ceased to be beings with freewill and become controlled entities. When we were created we were perfect but after sin entered we all chose to follow the path that caused bad things to happen. In the end we can have hope. There is something better to come.

    I wish you well with your family.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Thank you. Your opinion is always welcome.

    I guess I should clarify. I dont believe that every Christian has a peaceful life, and I know many Christians who have suffered worse than I have, my mother included. The peace I sought wasn't so much a correction of all that was wrong in my life as it was the peace and consolidity that I wasn't alone. That there was something or someone bigger with a plan, and a purpose, and that he loved me for ME, flaws and all. But try as I might, I never could grasp that sense. Perhaps he is real and one day when I need him the most I will have a break through. After all, the obstacles you go through shape you into the person you are. without them I wouldnt be as strong. I am well versed in the bible, and used to read it to try to seek comfort. I believe there was a time once where I could have found faith. But it was around the time that I began to question it.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    05-26-2013 03:21 PM
  14. Aquila's Avatar
    Nothing is true... Question everything.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    msndrstood and Blaize19 like this.
    05-26-2013 03:32 PM
  15. badbrad17's Avatar
    It's human nature, yes, but don't we (as the planet's most intelligent creatures) have the power to compensate for it?
    I actually don't believe we do have the ability on our own to overcome the temptation to sin. It's kind of odd but when I decided to become a Christian I was really surprised at how difficult it was to stop doing things that I've done in the past. Even things that weren't considered by some people to be horrible things were difficult to stop. For example selfishness is incredibly difficult thing to stop. You could desire to help somebody yet sometimes it just becomes easier to do what you want and not to think of someone else. Selfishness is one of the biggest things that you'll find with people. I'm not saying that they think about themselves to hurt other people or anything. It's just that we live in a world where we think only of what is surrounding us. But when you try to be selfless and try to go out of your way to not think of yourself and think of others, it is much harder than you might imagine.

    So this would lend me to think of a question to ask. Why would we be at odds with ourselves about doing something good? Anyone with children will admit that kids even at an early age become incredibly selfish. What is the force that is trying to persuade us that being selfish is the better choice than to help people less fortunate? I know that there are examples of people that are truly selfless people like Mother Teresa and others but I think it is far more common to find people who only think only of themselves and go out of their way to steal, lie, cheat and do all the other things that are so common in society today.

    Some people might say that this is part of being the herd and that because we evolved we're trying to look out for ourselves naturally. It is survival of the fittest. Yet at the same time we also find people that are mistreating their own bodies and abusing drugs and alcohol and hurting themselves physically and despising the fact that they do those things. Why do they continue continue to do them. What is the force that causes us to do these things to ourselves? And what would be the reason that we're at the same time sharing love with some people and yet hating others? It seems like we very often could show compassion to somebody who we don't even know yet be hateful towards somebody that we do.

    Just a few thoughts.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    05-26-2013 04:00 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    I dont mind that definition.

    I was raised as a catholic on one side of the family, and seventh day Adventist on the other. I was not baptized catholic, only christened. From the Catholic church, we attended a Baptist church where I was baptized a Baptist. We switched to nondenomonational for a few years. By the time I was 12 I switched to a first assembly of god church which I attended regularly until I was 15. I did not attend for the faith, but rather, the support group and wonderful people I had in my church family. Their peace in christ by extension gave me peace even though I lacked belief. From age 8-17 I attended a seventh day adventist church camp every summer. While I still lacked belief, I returned every year because it was a place of asylum. Once again, I sought out that peace. I tried so desperately hard to feel that connection, that maybe if I kept praying and kept attending, it would "click" into place and I would be filled with that peace and serenity that everyone else seemed to have. Needless to say, it never did click into place. Life never got easier, my prayers were never answered, and I grew weary of trying so dang hard to feel something that was always out of my reach. The breaking point for me was when my sister got life in prison with no chance of parole and left her two small children to the care of my mother. That was the point in my life that I stopped trying to connect. And now, here i am. If there is a god, he is much crueler than the bible insinuates. As a 15 year old girl in high school, I could have used the calming affect of a divine being while my family was torn to pieces.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    Wow. That is intense, Jennifer. My heart breaks for you and your family. There is nothing I could say to make that better. You are the person you are now because of your past, little consolation, I know. But you will pass that strength on to your children and, maybe someday, that can give you some solace.

    Like many, I have been through some things in my life that were difficult as hell to get through at the time. I got through them, (still going through some) but I never felt the need to find any answers outside myself such as going to church and asking for guidance from God or Jesus. I have always realized that a god was not controlling the situations and by asking or begging him/her/it to fix things, it was never going to happen. If something was going to change, I would have to make it happen. Yes, I lack faith. I had it briefly as a child, but that was many years ago. And then I grew up.

    It's true, in my mind, that bad things happen to good people. I believe you have to deal with the situation you're handed the best you can with whatever tools you have to make it better/tolerable. No god is 'letting' these things happen to punish anyone for anything. And if we're 'made in the image of God', that's pretty messed up. If we're imperfect.... How many gods does it take to make different races? If one is more superior than another whose idea was that?! But certain religions taught that premise for many years. And some still do.

    Most conflicts, personal, community, and global, are based on beliefs.

    A simple, powerful thought.

    A thought that, at times, results in actions that cannot be undone and affects the lives of thousands if not millions of people. Many times done in the name of God. What God requires the torture and murder of another? A god I don't want or need. Thank you.

    I don't have any answers to the really Big Questions of the day, but I do know that we haven't learned much in the past 10,000 years of human civilization because we keep making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

    Religion or no religion, it appears, we haven't learned from our mistakes. So we are destined to repeat them. Something we do extremely well.

    I think there is hope for the future, but I wouldn't bet everything I have on it.

    For me, there's still that problem of faith.

    What?! ...I'm msndrstood.
    via Gnex
    05-26-2013 04:10 PM
  17. MrHost's Avatar
    Nothing is true... Question everything.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    What is the logical reasoning for questioning everything?

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-26-2013 04:19 PM
  18. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    I'm not gunna lie, my first thought when seeing this title was:
    "he got caught with a prostitute."

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    iFebby likes this.
    05-26-2013 04:23 PM
  19. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Although I dont doubt that the majority of the scum in prison will take any opportunity to get an upper hand. Be it for parole or something else. But I will speak from personal experience. I have a very close friend that I met over 20 years ago. He had a problem childhood and made some bad decisions and ended up in prison. While there he did claim to accept God and Christ and dedicated himself to being a Christian. He got out of prison, continued in his faith, got married, raised a family and is running a successful company.

    I only wanted to make this post as so often we paint in extremes. Every inmate who finds hope may not be sincere but there are many that are. The same goes for the people who dedicate their time to come in and visit the inmates.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    I don't deny that I'm generalizing, there are most certainly exceptions. I have the misfortune of working in an area saturated with bad seeds so I just don't see them often
    badbrad17 likes this.
    05-26-2013 05:30 PM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    I'm not gunna lie, my first thought when seeing this title was:
    "he got caught with a prostitute."

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    lol lol, i just noticed this post

    Aquila and Jennifer Stough like this.
    05-26-2013 07:59 PM
  21. rexxman's Avatar
    That's not biblical at all and im angry that someone in his position would make such a statement. Where one spends eternity is too serious too play fast and loose with the truth.

    I found it refreshing to hear this from the Pope. Two Biblical references; The Good Samaritan and Saul, that fellow on the road to Damascus.

    I think it is, perhaps, a hint of a change from dogma to acts. How Christ like!

    Two important milestones on my journey.

    As a sophomore at a Catholic HS in the 60s. Our religious studies leader, a Dutch brother, entered class and proclaimed to us "God made you. And he used evolution to do it." Nice!

    During the 80s, when Time ran the cover "Is God Dead". An Armenian friend, from that "other" Catholic church, commented, "Is it more important that we prove there is a God, or that we believe there is a God?" There it is!


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Android Central Forums
    Posted via Android Central App
    05-26-2013 08:47 PM
  22. rexxman's Avatar
    That was supposed to be a reply with quote. Bug?

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-26-2013 08:49 PM
  23. llamabreath's Avatar
    That was supposed to be a reply with quote. Bug?

    Posted via Android Central App
    Yeah, i noticed that sometimes when i reply to a quote and include it, it includes a quote from a completely different thread instead.

    badbrad17 likes this.
    05-26-2013 08:52 PM
  24. gollum18's Avatar
    To be honest NothingIsTrue. I thought you're name was a reference to ac. NothingIsTrue... Everything is forgiven.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 11:34 PM
  25. badbrad17's Avatar
    Thank you. Your opinion is always welcome.

    I guess I should clarify. I dont believe that every Christian has a peaceful life, and I know many Christians who have suffered worse than I have, my mother included. The peace I sought wasn't so much a correction of all that was wrong in my life as it was the peace and consolidity that I wasn't alone. That there was something or someone bigger with a plan, and a purpose, and that he loved me for ME, flaws and all. But try as I might, I never could grasp that sense. Perhaps he is real and one day when I need him the most I will have a break through. After all, the obstacles you go through shape you into the person you are. without them I wouldnt be as strong. I am well versed in the bible, and used to read it to try to seek comfort. I believe there was a time once where I could have found faith. But it was around the time that I began to question it.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Android Central Forums
    Thank you again for a wonderful post.

    Forgive me if I come off preachy in any way. This is not my intention. I went on a long search myself so I am just sharing from my experiences.

    Just a question. Have you ever thought that maybe you are trying to do things on my own strength rather than trusting in God. I know people say things like that and it maybe is too clich, but I have met many people who have difficulty in their faith because they are afraid to let go. They want control and want to try to earn their salvation. So many people that have come from strict religious families are taught that they need to do all these things to experience God. And if you don't experience these feelings then you must be doing something wrong. Maybe if you do enough or read your bible enough or pray enough then God will give you a certain feeling that makes him real. It's like there should be a recipe for happiness if you know all the ingredients.

    But I believe true love is not about a feeling. God already gave us salvation. Take the gift and be thankful for it. Don't worry about the religious rule book. Tell God how you feel and ask him to help guide you along your way. That's it.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    simple man#AC and MangoPowah like this.
    05-27-2013 01:18 AM
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