07-26-2013 07:31 PM
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  1. Fairclough's Avatar
    I did answer the question before, you don't you place infractions. After all that's what I thought they are for?


    Posted via Android Central App on a buttery smooth Nexus 4... before you ask 4.3 is 'very nice' (In a borat voice)
    Read the above quote to my answer to why have a double standards. Gahh. Talk about going in circles.


    Posted via Android Central App on a buttery smooth Nexus 4... before you ask 4.3 is 'very nice' (In a borat voice)
    07-26-2013 03:07 AM
  2. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    When you're talking about people being offended, or feeling attacked or insulted, most things are iffy.

    What if you were the person getting banned? And then, what if you didn't think you should've been banned because you didn't think what you said was that bad? Would you consider that fair and just accept it?

    The rules are written clearly. When we give an infraction or ban that means that a rule has been broken. Let's say you receive an infraction. You get a PM saying that you've received an infraction, a point value, etc. If you don't agree with it do you just accept it, or do you reply and argue against it? I, for one, have no idea how you would respond, since your idea of iffy is probably different than mine, which is probably different than quite a few others. My point being, there's no way to know if a member will take a Moderator action as iffy or just "yep, I broke the rules. sorry." So, we enforce the rules as best we can, knowing that the decision we made is justified in the Rules & Guidelines.
    07-26-2013 03:13 AM
  3. Fairclough's Avatar
    There is a system for appeals and I believe James? Is the man in charge there if you go by the rules. I believe each person can tell when they crossed the line by a long shot and if it is iffy they would go through the channels.

    As you asked how I would respond. Here it is an example of the infraction I recieved yesterdays for 50 points which I viewed was iffy. It was for the abuse of a moderator" and the abuse was you have been lured to this thread welcome back". If i did an actual abuse e.g swore i wouldn't of contested it at all. My own belief is that if it is rejected I would cop that on the chin and take it.

    By my own example and case I used that's my view how an iffy subject should be dealt with. Personally if someone got hot headed after a rejection of a appeal it would be fair to extend the ban. That's my view and if did with my appeal you can quote me on this and do it yourself


    Posted via Android Central App on a buttery smooth Nexus 4... before you ask 4.3 is 'very nice' (In a borat voice)
    07-26-2013 03:24 AM
  4. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    There is a system for appeals and I believe James? Is the man on charge there if you go by the rules. I believe each person can tell when they crossed the line by a long shot and if it is iffy they would go through the channels.

    As I am the example my 50 infraction points I viewed was iffy yesterday as it was for the abuse of a moderator" and the abuse was you have been lured to this thread welcome back". If i did an actual abuse e.g swore i wouldnt of contested it at all. My own belief is that if it is rejected I would cop that on the chin and take it.

    By my own example and case I used that's my view how an iffy subject should be delt with. Personally if someone got hot headed after a rejection of a appeal it would be fair to extend the ban. That's my view and if did with my appeal you can quote me on this and do it yourself


    Posted via Android Central App on a buttery smooth Nexus 4... before you ask 4.3 is 'very nice' (In a borat voice)
    Well, I wasn't trying to get into specific instances, since we don't like to discuss things like that in public.


    The point, again, isn't to discourage discussion, necessarily, it's to make sure the forum rules are being followed. Yes, the Politics section lends itself to breakage of the rules far more frequently and quickly than other sections. Yes, that's due to the nature of the discussion. There's nothing that can really be done about it. Breaking of the rules can't be allowed, and the section isn't going to be removed from the forums. I'm not telling anyone (nor do I have the ability to) that they can't discuss things in the relevant sections. I'm saying that if a thread gets closed, or someone gets an infraction, or whatever, don't be surprised.

    I'll just point to the note that's at the top of this section. It's pretty self-explanatory, and has been there for a little while now.

    Also of note is the fact that we're the only Mobile Nations site that has a Politics section at all. Maybe that's not significant, but maybe it is. I don't really know, honestly. I just thought it was worth pointing out.
    Fairclough likes this.
    07-26-2013 03:38 AM
  5. Fairclough's Avatar
    I agree infractions should be served, I just believe that threads should just be attempted to keep the discussion flowing rather than culling it all together. Whether that involves removing certain users so be it. Cheers for at least replying and allowing this discussion to go a head.

    Submitted from The Android Central App & a Nexus 4
    07-26-2013 03:42 AM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I agree infractions should be served, I just believe that threads should just be attempted to keep the discussion flowing rather than culling it all together. Whether that involves removing certain users so be it. Cheers for at least replying and allowing this discussion to go a head.

    Submitted from The Android Central App & a Nexus 4
    We do allow them to happen. Just not over and over and over again.

    I'm also not going to allow arbitrary bans to be handed out because a member might be "passionate" about their beliefs. We understand heat of the moment things, but when that becomes the thread it has to stop. Likewise, it's pretty easy to spot a trouble thread, and we'll put an end to it when we see it.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-26-2013 03:54 AM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    There isn't anything that people don't get offended about these days.

    Glad I slept through this.

    SpiralBorg and Fairclough like this.
    07-26-2013 04:20 AM
  8. Fairclough's Avatar
    That is true. I am still failing to grasp how you manage to sleep read llama x)

    Submitted from The Android Central App & a Nexus 4
    07-26-2013 04:43 AM
  9. GadgetGator's Avatar
    No forum is being removed.
    Well, when you say things like:

    I'm honestly not opposed to closing all the threads in the section if it comes to it
    that is in effect a removal. As it is now, since no one really answered my question, I still don't understand what we can and cannot talk about anymore. It has had a very chilling effect on the section. Definitely the opposite of anything remotely considered a discussion. And while I can appreciate that this is a private site, I still subscribe to the belief in free speech and freedom in general as long as people aren't hurting anyone. This philosophy extends into every aspect of my life. So when someone says they want to treat things more like Russia or China might, it rubs me the wrong way a bit. It just does.

    It's funny because while there have been some comments that border on offensive here, I have never felt personally attacked in this forum. Whereas I was almost immediately attacked for my beliefs in how HTC should have built the One in other forums here. The political forum has been the least of my problems. It really has. I can understand and appreciate that is the opposite for Mods though. I guess I would have to ask the question, what changed? How long has this been a problem? Was it a problem before? What was the thinking in creating the political forum to begin with? What was the expectation? Did you think there would be no disagreements and that everyone would always be polite when they are passionate about something? If so, then that is an unreasonable expectation. There's a reason people say don't discuss politics or religion at work.
    Fairclough likes this.
    07-26-2013 04:34 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Well, when you say things like:



    that is in effect a removal. As it is now, since no one really answered my question, I still don't understand what we can and cannot talk about anymore. It has had a very chilling effect on the section. Definitely the opposite of anything remotely considered a discussion. And while I can appreciate that this is a private site, I still subscribe to the belief in free speech and freedom in general as long as people aren't hurting anyone. This philosophy extends into every aspect of my life. So when someone says they want to treat things more like Russia or China might, it rubs me the wrong way a bit. It just does.

    It's funny because while there have been some comments that border on offensive here, I have never felt personally attacked in this forum. Whereas I was almost immediately attacked for my beliefs in how HTC should have built the One in other forums here. The political forum has been the least of my problems. It really has. I can understand and appreciate that is the opposite for Mods though. I guess I would have to ask the question, what changed? How long has this been a problem? Was it a problem before? What was the thinking in creating the political forum to begin with? What was the expectation? Did you think there would be no disagreements and that everyone would always be polite when they are passionate about something? If so, then that is an unreasonable expectation. There's a reason people say don't discuss politics or religion at work.
    I'm not sure who or when the decision was made to open this section up. It's probably been around for a while, but was "hidden" at the bottom of the index until the reorganization happened in Jan/Feb. That's when traffic picked up and the problems started. It was almost immediate.

    While you may not have been offended, many others have. And those that were offended definitely felt hurt.

    I can't say for sure what types of discussions would be able to happen that wouldn't cause problems. So far, just about all of them have at some point. Which, again, is the problem. Too much time is being spent here by the Mod team. How are some people (not saying you individually, just in general) failing to grasp how much of a problem that really is for the rest of the forums? The answer isn't to just increase the number of Mods, either. We have enough Mods, and we're not adding one just to deal with one particular highly problematic section.
    07-26-2013 05:02 PM
  11. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    we're not adding one just to deal with one particular highly problematic section.
    I want to expand on this. While many of you think it would be a cure all for this section, look at it like this;
    There are 6 moderators for the whole site. And even between the six of us, the political section still manages to get out of control. Even if we were to add on a moderator for this section only, there would be too much ground to cover for one person. And in a topic such as politics, it is pretty hard to find someone who would stay objective and handle things without letting personal beliefs get in the way. I'll be honest, it's often difficult for me. That's why you will see a couple of us handling one thread, because often, one of us has to sign off because of a lack of objectivity. It would require a whole additional team in order to tackle this section, and lets face it, that just isn't rational. The issue doesn't lay in "outsiders" running across the politics section. The issue lies in it being an environment that makes it problematic when someone who isn't accustomed to it happens across it.



    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    07-26-2013 05:48 PM
  12. llamabreath's Avatar
    I think the turning point (people getting chastised, insulted, offended, belittled, bullied etc) obviously started at this thread:

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/sho...e Cream Flavor

    I told Matt not to do it, but he can be pretty stubborn.


    Fairclough and SpiralBorg like this.
    07-26-2013 07:04 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    I think the turning point (people getting chastised, insulted, offended etc) obviously started at this thread:

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/showthread.php?t=285834
    Your Favorite Ice Cream Flavor


    I told Matt not to do it, but he can be pretty stubborn.


    I didn't know everyone was going to be so touchy!
    Fairclough and SpiralBorg like this.
    07-26-2013 07:11 PM
  14. Paul627g's Avatar
    I told myself to not say anything but..

    To add to what my fellow moderators have already explained.

    We have a great moderator team and awesome membership. We take great pride in what we do as volunteers each day. Some of us like myself and Kevin for example have been here moderating for a year or better. We know many of the veteran members and try to meet the newer folks. Somewhere in the middle of all this we moderate, participate and at times just lurk in the shadows watching. Regardless of what we do the first priority is this is an Android based forum. It's our bread and butter sorta speak. Like Kevin mentioned somewhere a while back in the restructuring this section sprung to life. Honestly it's been a handful requiring constant attention to maintain because of the boundaries that certain individuals feel they need to push. In turn others see this and it's a ripple effect.

    We have posted warnings, stickies and other attempts to curb the problems but they keep resurfacing in different form each day.

    Putting a moderator here permanently isn't the answer and other suggestions haven't been ideal either. Most ideal situation or solution would be those participating here follow the rules and don't look for ways to exploit them. We're not out to be the bad guys or ruin anyone's fun but when you have half the mod team tied up dealing with off-topic thread(s) it removes us from effectively moderating and helping in the main part of the forums where people are genuinely looking for answers and help.

    So with all that said I hope at some point those who regular this section begin to understand what we are trying to convey with proper conduct and respecting the rules and others in this section.

    Enjoy your evening/weekend folks

    Paul627g
    Forums Moderator

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    gollum18 and Aquila like this.
    07-26-2013 07:31 PM
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