07-26-2013 07:31 PM
64 123
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Am I going to have to park myself in this section again, or is everyone going to behave? We (the Mod team) are seeing a rise in reported posts from this section again. It got bad, then I came in here multiple times a day, then it got better (you could have a discussion without being attacked or offended), and now it's getting bad again.

    I'm honestly not opposed to closing all the threads in the section if it comes to it, but I would PREFER not to do that. It's all up to you, the members posting in this section, as to how things go in the future. This is me, Kevin, asking for your help and cooperation with this matter.

    Thanks.

    P.S. Last time I had to come in here was because people that NEVER post in this section couldn't escape it because of the shear amount of back and forth going on, which kept it at the top of the list for hot threads and recent posts. That would be fine, but most of the threads were very negative in connotation.

    EDIT (7-22-13): A few people have noticed that threads are getting closed at a much faster than usual rate in this section. The reasons are simple, and go back to the original content of this post. Moderators are spending far too much time in this section "waiting" for someone to get offended. I, nor any other Mod or staff member, should have to sit in this section and make sure we read every single post made. I've seen, on occasion, many pages of a thread just straightening out "I didn't mean to offend" or "I took it different" or "that's not how you meant it, and you know it" types of comments. Android Central is a site dedicated to all things Android. I do wish that some members that choose to post primarily in the off-topic sections would put as much energy into helping people with phone problems, but I can't control who posts in what section. What I (and the Mod team) CAN control is the amount of bickering, insulting, thinly veiled racism/bigotry/stereotyping comments that happen before a thread gets closed. Any thread that looks to duplicate an existing thread, or a topic that has already been covered in another thread (even if that thread is closed. think....it got closed for a reason) will be closed.

    I gave it almost exactly two months to see how things would go, and they have remained the same. Too much time and energy has been spent trying to keep things in-line and somewhat on-topic.
    return_0, Ry, msndrstood and 1 others like this.
    05-25-2013 03:33 PM
  2. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    The rampant racism and thinly veiled insults against women, homosexuals, progressives, and anyone else who doesn't agree with the agenda of some posters in this section make every person associated with Mobile Nations look bad, and have driven people away from the MoNa family of sites because we allow it.

    Kevin, you know the specifics of what I'm talking about.

    In the meantime, please don't ask me to moderate or participate in any thread here.
    05-25-2013 03:42 PM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Yes I do Jerry. I'm sure there are many lurkers and/or light posters that have been turned off in the past. That's what I'm trying to avoid.
    05-25-2013 04:15 PM
  4. Paul627g's Avatar
    To be fair to everyone, Kevin has set the ground rules again and if certain folks don't want to abide by them then they are either free to not participate or if they do and step over the line they will be handled accordingly. Anyone not sure what's right & wrong can review the Read the Android Central / Mobile Nations Community Rules & Guidelines. If this section continues to become a problem then we can always throw the padlock on it.

    Any further questions concerning the linked content can send a PM to Kevin, myself or " James Falconer " at james@mobilenations.com

    @Jerry I respect your comments.


    Paul
    Forums Moderator.
    msndrstood and bigdaddytee like this.
    05-25-2013 05:03 PM
  5. Mooncatt's Avatar
    P.S. Last time I had to come in here was because people that NEVER post in this section couldn't escape it because of the shear amount of back and forth going on, which kept it at the top of the list for hot threads and recent posts. That would be fine, but most of the threads were very negative in connotation.
    I'm not disagreeing with any point you have made, but offering a suggestion. Would it be possible to remove the debate forum from showing up on the hot lists at all, regardless of how active a topic is? I say this because it seems to be a pretty small portion of the forum members that actually use this section very often, and my guess is that most people couldn't care less about it in the grand scheme of things. This way it doesn't put off such a negative vibe when things get heated (note, that doesn't mean by insulting one another). I've seen it done on one or two other sites where a whole section is blocked from showing up on recent activity lists, so figured I'd suggest it here.
    05-25-2013 05:51 PM
  6. Aquila's Avatar
    I've enjoyed some conversations with people in these threads, but I honestly see no added value to the forums from most of these threads except for the hope that it keeps these discussions out of the rest of the forums. I'm not sure if that last part is true or not, but I think that's the intent and if it's working then I think they're worthwhile. That being said, I believe the rules should be enforced more firmly in a section like this; not less (as appears to the be current approach).

    We can discuss ideas civilly without insults and bigotry and encourage each other to learn and grow; but realistically, in which thread is someone more likely to be offended by the debate? One in which someone questions their motivations for buying a phone or one in which someone calls them a traitor, or lazy or crazy because of who they voted for or how they feel about an issue or the interpretation of a word?

    While I think we can, or could, behave well; it doesn't seem like anyone is trying to have a debate with any kind of mutual respect or to think of solutions; this seems to be the place to puff out one's chest. As Carolinadroid pointed out some months ago... all of us are capable of politely telling one another to go to hell. In current state, I believe this section provides more harm than good. I'd be sad to see it go because of it's potential, but even one person feeling unwelcome in a tech forum because of ridicule for their outlook is a pretty high price to pay.

    Maybe you guys see the value proposition differently, but if it were me, I'd enforce the rules much harsher in here than in other sections. Just the idea that such an effort might be required is enough to make me think it's not worth it. The intent of the dialogue is important. If we're seeking common ground to understand and communicate perspectives, great! But we're not and we all know it.
    jdbii and Fairclough like this.
    05-25-2013 07:20 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    I think that there are really only two options to fix this.

    Either keep Politics out of the Hot Threads and Recent Posts sections or induce stricter enforcement of the rules (or maybe even use both options). Some people don't consider the rules until the rules are enforced.

    While I personally would love to mod and enforce the well-established rules, I think it would probably be easier for you guys (if my help is not wanted) to just keep the Politics section out of easy reach from the techies. Anyone that's specifically looking for Politics knows how to find it if they really want to.
    Aquila, msndrstood and bigdaddytee like this.
    05-25-2013 08:18 PM
  8. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Bump

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    05-27-2013 06:45 PM
  9. ItnStln's Avatar
    I think that there are really only two options to fix this.

    Either keep Politics out of the Hot Threads and Recent Posts sections or induce stricter enforcement of the rules (or maybe even use both options). Some people don't consider the rules until the rules are enforced.

    While I personally would love to mod and enforce the well-established rules, I think it would probably be easier for you guys (if my help is not wanted) to just keep the Politics section out of easy reach from the techies. Anyone that's specifically looking for Politics knows how to find it if they really want to.
    They might need a bigger mod team just for the politics section.
    05-28-2013 09:42 AM
  10. llamabreath's Avatar
    I'd gladly do it.

    Fairclough and Aquila like this.
    05-28-2013 10:01 AM
  11. ItnStln's Avatar
    I'd gladly do it.

    Me too.
    05-28-2013 10:15 AM
  12. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Am I going to have to park myself in this section again, or is everyone going to behave? We (the Mod team) are seeing a rise in reported posts from this section again. It got bad, then I came in here multiple times a day, then it got better (you could have a discussion without being attacked or offended), and now it's getting bad again.

    I'm honestly not opposed to closing all the threads in the section if it comes to it, but I would PREFER not to do that. It's all up to you, the members posting in this section, as to how things go in the future. This is me, Kevin, asking for your help and cooperation with this matter.

    Thanks.

    P.S. Last time I had to come in here was because people that NEVER post in this section couldn't escape it because of the shear amount of back and forth going on, which kept it at the top of the list for hot threads and recent posts. That would be fine, but most of the threads were very negative in connotation.
    Kevin,

    You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As they say in
    Texas. I'll bet you couldn't pour **** out of a boot with instructions on the
    heel. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer
    than be seen with you.

    You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm
    deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel.
    Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck
    on a sour lemon.

    You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with
    the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An
    insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling,
    giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what
    they had done.

    I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you.
    You are a monster, an ogre, a malformation. I barf at the very thought of you.
    You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile,
    worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth.
    And did I mention you smell?

    Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress
    us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be
    available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.

    You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak
    into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before
    spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May
    you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs.

    You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and
    profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look
    down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic,
    starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot.

    And what meaning do you expect your delusional self-important statements of
    unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that
    you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than
    that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite
    of the snake?

    You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious.
    You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a
    meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile
    one-handed slack-jawed drooling meat slapper.
    On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in
    all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank
    and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all
    unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

    You smarmy lager lout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You
    grotty wanking oink artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish
    foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated
    tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey
    poofter. You craven pratting naff. You gob-kissing
    gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted
    clapper-clawed flirt-gill.

    You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate,
    noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise
    everything about you, and I wish you would go away.

    I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid.
    Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid
    we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid.
    Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have
    collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity
    stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one
    second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has
    to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this
    is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure
    essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws
    of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid
    for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don't have
    enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments
    about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh.

    P.S.: You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, cowardly,
    deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable, belligerent,
    opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted, racist,
    sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged, imbecilic, insane,
    arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous, byzantine, conspiratorial,
    satanic, fraudulent, libelous, bilious, splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless,
    illegitimate, harmful, destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious,
    revisionist, narrow, manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic,
    idolatrous, unethical, cultic, diseased, suppressive, controlling, restrictive,
    malignant, deceptive, dim, crazy, weird, dystopic, stifling, uncaring,
    plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic, jargon-spouting, censorious, secretive,
    aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous, flagrant, self-destructive,
    abusive, socially-retarded, puerile, clueless, and generally Not Good.
    PS: Just kidding I couldn't resist! LOL!

    the "giggling beats who sired you" part cracks me up every time
    05-28-2013 04:07 PM
  13. gollum18's Avatar
    Well that escalated quickly

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    05-28-2013 05:56 PM
  14. Aquila's Avatar
    I think the line that we need not cross needs a moat around it. And a wall. If you come close to the wall, you're lightly shocked as a deterrent. The moat should be patrolled by alligators. This way, it becomes nearly impossible for anyone to cross the line.
    msndrstood likes this.
    05-29-2013 04:05 PM
  15. ItnStln's Avatar
    I think the line that we need not cross needs a moat around it. And a wall. If you come close to the wall, you're lightly shocked as a deterrent. The moat should be patrolled by alligators. This way, it becomes nearly impossible for anyone to cross the line.
    Great idea.
    Aquila likes this.
    05-29-2013 08:48 PM
  16. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I think the line that we need not cross needs a moat around it. And a wall. If you come close to the wall, you're lightly shocked as a deterrent. The moat should be patrolled by alligators. This way, it becomes nearly impossible for anyone to cross the line.
    And killer beavers
    Aquila likes this.
    05-30-2013 06:22 AM
  17. Live2ride883's Avatar
    To be fair to everyone, Kevin has set the ground rules again and Anyone not sure what's right & wrong can review the Read the Android Central / Mobile Nations Community Rules & Guidelines.

    Any further questions concerning the linked content can send a PM to Kevin, myself or " James Falconer " at james@mobilenations.com

    @Jerry I respect your comments.


    Paul
    Forums Moderator.
    I have PM'd Kevin a couple of times on content that I wasn't quite sure about. He always answered in a reasonable time.
    05-30-2013 08:35 AM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    Seems to have sorted itself out with recent history. I'm not sure if it's commentary on the community or on current events.
    Fairclough likes this.
    06-23-2013 04:35 AM
  19. Fairclough's Avatar
    Looking at the dates I can't think of which thread is would be.... hopefully not the ice cream one!
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-23-2013 04:56 AM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    bump: READ THE EDIT TO MY OP
    07-22-2013 12:23 PM
  21. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Any thread that looks to duplicate an existing thread, or a topic that has already been covered in another thread (even if that thread is closed. think....it got closed for a reason) will be closed.
    I'm a little confused by this statement. So we can never discuss gun rights ever again? Or religion? Cause there's threads on those topics closed right now. Eventually there will be nothing left to discuss as every subject under the sun will eventually have a thread closed. It would also limit the ability of future users to have ANY input whatsoever on a given subject. If that's what you are implying, then that seems way too heavy handed. There has to be some sort of middle ground that can please everyone. I hope we can find that. I don't want to see a situation where things are locked down too much like a certain red-fruited company does. Openness and flexibility is the whole reason I am on the Android platform to begin with and I imagine most people on this site would have a similar story. So I am really hoping we can figure out a way to have that openness here, in this section, too.
    msndrstood and gollum18 like this.
    07-25-2013 08:42 PM
  22. Fairclough's Avatar
    It also means you cant discuss other aspects or re discuss it. If re discussion didnt occur there would still be slavery. Views change over time, thus points made in olds threads are redundant.

    Posted via Android Central App on a magical nexus 4 which is powered by secret forest creatures.
    07-25-2013 10:22 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I'm a little confused by this statement. So we can never discuss gun rights ever again? Or religion? Cause there's threads on those topics closed right now. Eventually there will be nothing left to discuss as every subject under the sun will eventually have a thread closed. It would also limit the ability of future users to have ANY input whatsoever on a given subject. If that's what you are implying, then that seems way too heavy handed. There has to be some sort of middle ground that can please everyone. I hope we can find that. I don't want to see a situation where things are locked down too much like a certain red-fruited company does. Openness and flexibility is the whole reason I am on the Android platform to begin with and I imagine most people on this site would have a similar story. So I am really hoping we can figure out a way to have that openness here, in this section, too.
    Look at the bold. Now look again. Why is the thread closed? Do you know how many threads we closed in the month of June? 62 I can't tell you when the threads that were closed were started, but I can tell you that thousands of threads were created in June. We don't like closing threads, and it takes an awful lot to get us to the point where we'll permanently close a thread. If a topic was controversial enough to warrant having a thread closed, then why should a new discussion take place? Especially when many of the players in the discussion are going to be the same. Introduce just one new person to the discussion and any "decision" that was made about not being offended, or having a thick skin, or anything like that goes out the window. Then we're back to the original problem.

    It also means you cant discuss other aspects or re discuss it. If re discussion didnt occur there would still be slavery. Views change over time, thus points made in olds threads are redundant.

    Posted via Android Central App on a magical nexus 4 which is powered by secret forest creatures.
    See my reply above as to why points made in old threads are not always redundant. Now, let me ask this, will one side of any argument ever completely disappear, become irrelevant, or just go away? If the answer is no then consider this, although an individuals views may change, there will almost always be someone to take there place, and therefor continue the discussion, AND probably go around in the same circles that have been gone around over and over.

    Yes, we allow those things to happen in other sections of the forums. In those sections, it's more of an annoyance, and doesn't offend anyone or make them stop coming to the forums. This section also has more reports relative to the number of posts than any other section on AC.

    So, tell me what you would do to fix those problems. I'm open to suggestions. Some that aren't going to happen:

    1) A Mod that's designated for this section and this section alone. This would create as many problems as it would solve.
    2) Allowing any and all discussions to take place regardless of how it makes members feel. We tried that. It was a disaster.


    The point isn't to prevent discussion from taking place. The point is to prevent an inordinate amount of time from being spent in this section by the Mod team. There are also those that have said they don't visit AC because of the types of discussions that take place in certain sections (guess which one), and that needs to be taken into consideration. AC is nothing without members, obviously, and if I'm being frank, if having a thread closed in the Politics section on ANDROID CENTRAL is going to make you stop visiting the forums here, then I don't have a good answer for you. I'm not trying to be harsh or rude, I'm just giving an honest assessment of the situation.
    Aquila likes this.
    07-25-2013 11:56 PM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    I think it's worth pointing out that when people make comments that are ... generally opposed to societally accepted ideals such as diversity, equality, etc. it is difficult to consider that irrational fears are a perspective that should be respected in the same light as logic, critical thinking and inclusiveness. I fully understand the need to show respect to the person, but if we're going to have an honest dialogue, it is not so easy to distinguish between the person and their comments and hold each separately in the discussion. Attacking the ideas of one person aggressively doesn't require attacking the person, but that line gets crossed here way too often.
    Fairclough likes this.
    07-26-2013 12:07 AM
  25. Fairclough's Avatar
    Yeah there could always be 1 person who disagrees.... Sure but the majority changes over the time. Take my constitution reference, first time it was rejected as it didn't have the numbers, later on it was OK just passed and I guess if it was taken now it would definitely pass for the abolishment of slavery.


    Time and time again shows ideas a recircled but the majority belief is shifted to a varying view. Thus a need for re discussion. I have a simple answer.... The people who don't go on AC due to this section apparently. Tell them simply not to look in it, I am sure their grown adults who can decide what they want to look at. Often there are threads I disagree with but I can choose not to open it, I suggest the same.


    Posted via Android Central App on a magical nexus 4 which is powered by secret forest creatures.
    07-26-2013 12:28 AM
64 123

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