06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Surprisngly quiet around here given the major news today. Have been cruising around twitter and seen a lot of bitter comments from the right wing. I just don't understand why they don't understand they are losing this fight. Actually maybe deep down they do, hence the bitterness. But they keep wasting all this time and money over something that ultimately cannot be won. No doubt slave owners and those against women voting dragged their heels too, but as history has showed, it's such a wasted effort. Fights for equality always win out ultimately.

    So the needless fighting will continue. But for now, we have the 13 gay colonies.
    I didn't like that DOMA is gone but the worst part is that the voting rights didn't pass, so true equal rights didn't win.



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    06-30-2013 08:06 PM
  2. Farish's Avatar
    The One-Way Only Wall of Separation Between Church and State.

    20. We have all heard the chant, mindlessly recited, separation of church and state. Many believe this phrase is in the Constitution, and that it forbids any Christian influence in the public square. But that is false. The phrase is nowhere in the Constitution, and it is not a constitutional principle. The First Amendment says Congress may not legally establish one [religious] creed as official truth and support it with its full financial and coercive powers; 9 and it may not prohibit the free exercise of religion or religious speech ANYWHERE.

    You realize this who wrote this for the specific reason to ban and remove any Islamic organizations from the United States.
    She also believes that the United States government has been taken over by Islamists.
    That Muslims are not allowed to come to the United States nor the ones here are allow to establish Mosques for themselves.

    But I should realize you probably agree with her 100 percent seeing how you quoted her specific article.

    By this is 100 percent opinion but since you might agree with it, it probably is true.

    Edit:

    Looks like your post was deleted, figuring it was a mod I took out the link.
    06-30-2013 08:25 PM
  3. Wiley_11's Avatar
    But I should realize you probably agree with her 100 percent seeing how you quoted her specific article.
    By this is 100 percent opinion but since you might agree with it, it probably is true.
    I don't agree with anyone 100%. The separation thing is BS. Google it and find a messenger you approve of. ltm ltmol
    06-30-2013 08:50 PM
  4. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    You realize this who wrote this for the specific reason to ban and remove any Islamic organizations from the United States.
    She also believes that the United States government has been taken over by Islamists.
    That Muslims are not allowed to come to the United States nor the ones here are allow to establish Mosques for themselves.

    But I should realize you probably agree with her 100 percent seeing how you quoted her specific article.

    By this is 100 percent opinion but since you might agree with it, it probably is true.

    Edit:

    Looks like your post was deleted, figuring it was a mod I took out the link.
    The post wasn't deleted...

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    Wiley_11 likes this.
    06-30-2013 08:51 PM
  5. Fairclough's Avatar
    According to the Bible, which is the Word of God, if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, your chances of going to hell are 100%.
    You know the bible isn't all accurate and the catholic church has admitted that? Fact some sections in the new testament were written 500 years after Jesus' death. A story retold for 500 years won't be perfect. Imagine someone recording the life of michael Jackson in 500 years time only going by word of mouth. Would be hard to be totally true right? Have a look up guardium et spes. Its about 2000ish pages long and read maybe 100 pages and half your beliefs from the bible will be disprove by the church itself.

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    06-30-2013 09:16 PM
  6. Fairclough's Avatar
    How quickly we forget all the peaceful Muslims that were cheering, dancing and celebrating in the streets when their brothers slammed two passenger airplanes into the World Trade Center, killing thousands.

    How easily we forget.



    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    The footage shown straight after with the burning flag was file footage not footage on the day if that's the one your referring to

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    06-30-2013 09:23 PM
  7. Fairclough's Avatar
    They cheered for murderers. We cheered for the end of a murderer. There is a difference.
    Mmm not very Christian. Remember the saying he who has not sinned cast the first stone. Referring to those who punish are just as guilty. Hypocrisy.
    Excuse the triple post was quoting stuff as I was reading through. I am not going to lie, the statements from Christians in this thread are so wrong it makes me feel ashamed to be called a Catholic. The bible could be the worst point for an argument - it is not solid Christian teaching -> the stories have been used to express messages and have been re interpreted multiple times. Last year they retranslated most of their scriptures for a better understanding showing that some messages were wrong. You might of noticed in mass words changing.

    There should be equality no matter your religious affiliation or background! so say otherwise is just hypocritical.
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    msndrstood and GadgetGator like this.
    06-30-2013 09:27 PM
  8. pappy53's Avatar
    You know the bible isn't all accurate and the catholic church has admitted that? Fact some sections in the new testament were written 500 years after Jesus' death. A story retold for 500 years won't be perfect. Imagine someone recording the life of michael Jackson in 500 years time only going by word of mouth. Would be hard to be totally true right? Have a look up guardium et spes. Its about 2000ish pages long and read maybe 100 pages and half your beliefs from the bible will be disprove by the church itself.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    The Bible is the inspired writings of God. He makes no mistakes.
    06-30-2013 09:48 PM
  9. Fairclough's Avatar
    Really now. So just like how he inspires the Vatican to elect a pope?

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    06-30-2013 09:56 PM
  10. phathands's Avatar
    The Bible is the inspired writings of God. He makes no mistakes.
    When you don't know what you're taking about you should really stay out of a conversation. Even learned Christians will tell you that the words of the books are written by man and retranslated again and again (with many assumptions and errors in the translations).



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    Fairclough and GadgetGator like this.
    06-30-2013 10:00 PM
  11. Fairclough's Avatar
    I am waiting for this divine answer to say popes are inspired by God because I have a few questions rolled up from probably a good 10 years study Catholicism and 5 years of that their doctrine.

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    msndrstood likes this.
    06-30-2013 10:06 PM
  12. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    When you don't know what you're taking about you should really stay out of a conversation. Even learned Christians will tell you that the words of the books are written by man and retranslated again and again (with many assumptions and errors in the translations).



    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AC Forums mobile app
    Please state your expert qualifications on the subject.


    Just as some of you take offense to people saying negative things about your beliefs on same sex marriage, those people with Christian beliefs could be taking offense to those beliefs being called absurd, illogical, etc.

    Anyone is allowed to state their beliefs. If you don't agree then cool, that's your right, but attacking their beliefs while at the same time demanding that yours be accepted and not "attacked" isn't cool. The main difference is one group has a book to reference, and others don't.

    Just something to keep in mind. That door swings both ways.


    I also have to wonder....how many people commenting on Christian beliefs and Biblical teachings were at one point believers themselves. Not "I used to go to church" but actual believers. That actually studied the Bible (studying it is far different than reading it). It makes a difference, and could be one reason why some don't understand the concept of Faith and what that means.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    06-30-2013 10:16 PM
  13. Fairclough's Avatar
    Kevin I did study it. I did primary school to year 8 was reading it / minor interperation year 8 to 10 were interpretations and 11/12 was studying doctrine and relating them to society. In particularly how religion influences society. Only got 70% in it after scaling (against other subjects to make all subjects fair against each other). Note for this subject you could study any religion, my school did Catholicism and the work is marked by scholars of the religion you write on.

    I'll these questions to who views the church as infallible.

    Why has there been a 12 year old Pope - elected as a repayment to a family whom the church owed money to? Who sold his position when he was tired of being pope. Lost his papal. Who was eventually excommunicated.

    Why is there solid belief that we only eat fish on Fridays due to a pope being black mailed?

    Why were there two popes at once because the cardinals changed their mind saying they were intimidated by crowds wanting a non Italian pope? Which cause two Vatican cities.

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    msndrstood likes this.
    06-30-2013 10:22 PM
  14. JHBThree's Avatar
    I didn't like that DOMA is gone but the worst part is that the voting rights didn't pass, so true equal rights didn't win.



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    The voting rights act is still in force. The only section that was struck down was the one that used a formula from 1970 as its basis.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    06-30-2013 10:23 PM
  15. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Please state your expert qualifications on the subject.


    Just as some of you take offense to people saying negative things about your beliefs on same sex marriage, those people with Christian beliefs could be taking offense to those beliefs being called absurd, illogical, etc.

    Anyone is allowed to state their beliefs. If you don't agree then cool, that's your right, but attacking their beliefs while at the same time demanding that yours be accepted and not "attacked" isn't cool. The main difference is one group has a book to reference, and others don't.

    Just something to keep in mind. That door swings both ways.


    I also have to wonder....how many people commenting on Christian beliefs and Biblical teachings were at one point believers themselves. Not "I used to go to church" but actual believers. That actually studied the Bible (studying it is far different than reading it). It makes a difference, and could be one reason why some don't understand the concept of Faith and what that means.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    Very well said by Kevin. Faith is how everything works in christianity. The bible is an instruction book but faith is (the tool )needed to fully understand it.

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    06-30-2013 10:28 PM
  16. Fairclough's Avatar
    I would like to add other mistakes the divine (god) has done through his inspiration's of teachings.

    - defended slavery as willed by god.
    - saying only Christians would be saved
    - saying its wrong to create interest on loans
    - selling deeds (forgiveness) from god (look at martin Luther reforms)
    - persecution of witches
    This is just a few errors from interpretations.

    Maybe I should add saying homosexuality is evil as he designed it potentially?

    There is a difference between religious and spirituality. One you don't need a particularly religion but simply have a little faith in something.

    Now can we stop debating religion and debate this without bringing religious aspects in.

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    msndrstood likes this.
    06-30-2013 10:31 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I would like to add other mistakes the divine has done.

    - defended slavery as willed by god.
    - saying only Christians would be saced
    - saying its wrong to create interest
    - selling deeds (forgiveness) from god
    - persecution of witches
    This is just a few errors from interpretations.

    Maybe I should add saying homosexuality is evil as he designed it potentially?

    There is a difference between religious and spirituality. One you don't need a particularly religion but simply have a little faith in something.

    Now can we stop debating religion and debate this without bringing religious aspects in.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    Are you using "divine" to describe God or the believers? It makes a difference in how your post is going to come across and how people are going to reply to it.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    06-30-2013 10:41 PM
  18. Fairclough's Avatar
    My bad, divine was used to describe god as there was an argument that he used divine inspiration to get authors to what they did.
    My post has been edited to reflect that.
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    06-30-2013 10:47 PM
  19. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    My bad, divine was used to describe god as there was an argument that he used divine inspiration to get authors to what they did.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    Christians believe God is perfect. Any misinterpretations are done by humans, which are less than perfect. Going based on Christian belief your previous post is false. It's all about context.

    Arguing for faith-based beliefs with someone that doesn't share them is pointless, since they will require proof. Likewise, arguing against faith-based beliefs with someone that DOES believe them is also pointless. The very definition of faith means that you can't really prove them wrong, since proof is not required for those that have the faith to believe.

    Make sense?

    I'm just trying to give a deeper understanding of the Christian faith. It can't hurt to learn, right?

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    badbrad17 likes this.
    06-30-2013 10:55 PM
  20. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I didn't like that DOMA is gone but the worst part is that the voting rights didn't pass, so true equal rights didn't win.
    You don't like that DOMA is gone? So you actually WANT me to be a second class citizen? You WANT people like Edith Windsor to pay $360,000 more in taxes then a straight widow?
    06-30-2013 11:05 PM
  21. Fairclough's Avatar
    Yes it does make sense, but by saying interpretations are wrong on the human end as his inspiration is perfect could also suggest that those who wrote the bible interoperated his inspiration wrongly thus the bible (or known to some basic instructions before leaving earth) could be wrong due to false interpretations similar my previous examples? Which lead to horrific things.

    One bible error if memory serves me correct is that the earth was made 6000
    years ago which was a human error by a false printing. A Christan scientist tried calculating the age by things shown In the bible, calculated 6000 at the time and scribbled it into the book. As back in the time bibles were hand written it for copied out over and over again into multiple editions. Hence why some bibles have that figure. You would think every year that number would get larger

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    msndrstood likes this.
    06-30-2013 11:06 PM
  22. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I would like to add other mistakes the divine (god) has done through his inspiration's of teachings.

    - defended slavery as willed by god.-gods chosen people, Israel, entire nation was enslaved by egypt. Still the most persecuted people to this day.

    - saying only Christians would be saved -john 3:16
    - saying its wrong to create interest on loans-???
    - selling deeds (forgiveness) from god (look at martin Luther reforms)-forgiveness and salvation are free, you need but sincerely ask.
    - persecution of witches-???
    This is just a few errors from interpretations.

    Maybe I should add saying homosexuality is evil as he designed it potentially?

    There is a difference between religious and spirituality. One you don't need a particularly religion but simply have a little faith in something.

    Now can we stop debating religion and debate this without bringing religious aspects in.

    I know what I believe and why I believe it just as strongly as you do not believe it. I am confident in my faith.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.


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    06-30-2013 11:19 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Yes it does make sense, but by saying interpretations are wrong on the human end as his inspiration is perfect could also suggest that those who wrote the bible interoperated his inspiration wrongly thus the bible (or known to some basic instructions before leaving earth) could be wrong due to false interpretations similar my previous examples? Which lead to horrific things.

    One bible error if memory serves me correct is that the earth was made 6000
    years ago which was a human error by a false printing. A Christan scientist tried calculating the age by things shown In the bible, calculated 6000 at the time and scribbled it into the book. As back in the time bibles were hand written it for copied out over and over again into multiple editions. Hence why some bibles have that figure. You would think every year that number would get larger

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    Read up on how they try to maintain accuracy. It really is a painstaking process. King James Version is widely considered to be the most literal to the original scripture, but seeing as how we don't speak in that style anymore more modern translations have started being used.

    There should also be a distinct difference noted when using Old Testament examples versus New Testament, since things changed significantly once Jesus came. Since Jesus IS God (holy trinity), his words are direct words from God.

    There's also no point in arguing about the Agnostic books, or scrolls that were left out of the "official" Bible, since those things also don't matter to believers. If a believer truly has Faith in the Bible and God no argument presented will change that.

    It's the same as saying that you can convince someone that doesn't have Faith to stop believing science and adopt a purely Christian viewpoint on things. Neither of those things are very likely to happen.

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    Fairclough and cdmjlt369 like this.
    06-30-2013 11:19 PM
  24. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Mmm not very Christian. Remember the saying he who has not sinned cast the first stone. Referring to those who punish are just as guilty. Hypocrisy.
    Excuse the triple post was quoting stuff as I was reading through. I am not going to lie, the statements from Christians in this thread are so wrong it makes me feel ashamed to be called a Catholic. The bible could be the worst point for an argument - it is not solid Christian teaching -> the stories have been used to express messages and have been re interpreted multiple times. Last year they retranslated most of their scriptures for a better understanding showing that some messages were wrong. You might of noticed in mass words changing.

    There should be equality no matter your religious affiliation or background! so say otherwise is just hypocritical.
    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    I'm not Christian. I think the fact that there are 20+ versions of the bible for Christians alone tells me enough about religion. The only version I've read is the King James though. Personally organized religion terrifies me and 9/11 is an example of why. Religious zealots will exist in any religion and unfortunately into politics as well. As marriage is considered a religious institution I am thinking of what Justice Scalia said. I dont have the quote but I do known it was to the effect that we should do away with marriage altogether, from a legal Big Brother.

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-30-2013 11:21 PM
  25. Fairclough's Avatar
    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    There examples of things which happened which the church has since corrected since they occurred. Forgiveness used to cost -
    the church did it in a way to raise money. However martin Luther discovered this, protested it and split of with his own denomination (Lutherans) but since the church corrected this error with the above.

    For the witches the church was the ones to burn and drown them.

    Doctrines like Guardium et spes is a good read once you get your head past church talk. They had a meeting, first meeting since Trent 300 years prior, to discuss common debated topics (9000 topics) and establish a common ground to which teachings were wrong etc. Hence reforms. Unfortunately every meeting roughly takes 100 years for its teachings to be incorporated. The last major one basically iced up the hate towards protestants etc. We should probably do the same with the lgbt community.

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    msndrstood likes this.
    06-30-2013 11:29 PM
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