06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. AngelArs's Avatar
    So homosexuals should have rights, but not all rights?

    You know what that's synonymous with?
    Wow, there's so many things.... We can start with a woman's right to vote. Then there's the whole black/white thing. I think it all comes down to fear. They are afraid that making all people equal somehow makes themselves less, which of course is rediculous.
    07-01-2013 01:48 PM
  2. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Most experts on what? The Vatican calls Genesis allegorical in its entirety and accepts natural selection.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    The Vatican is not representative of Christianity as a whole.

    Which 'jesus' are you referring to? There are so many that have fit this mythological characters description over the ages.
    Based on previous posts it's the one that's commonly referenced from the Bible. I have a feeling you knew that and are just trying to be difficult. Let's use some common sense here please.
    Aquila likes this.
    07-01-2013 01:50 PM
  3. AngelArs's Avatar
    I guess I've been happily living in sin for over 4 decades
    Don't feel bad. Sin is just a man-made concept.
    gnr_2 and msndrstood like this.
    07-01-2013 01:50 PM
  4. AngelArs's Avatar
    Let's use some common sense here please.
    If everyone was using common sense then we wouldn't be discussing why ALL people should share in the same rights.
    07-01-2013 01:52 PM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    The Vatican is not representative of Christianity as a whole.
    I understand that, but they are the source of most modern Christianity and the only ones in possession of the actual relics and texts, etc. My point was more in questioning what the experts are experts in, given that experts in both science and theology resoundingly accept facts about science. Just as the Vatican doesn't speak for all, small earth fundamentalists do not either.


    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-01-2013 01:55 PM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    If everyone was using common sense then we wouldn't be discussing why ALL people should share in the same rights.
    I disagree. It's simply a matter of respect. You either respect other people's beliefs or you don't. Thinking that everyone should share the same beliefs is just as bad as denying rights to groups that don't.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-01-2013 01:58 PM
  7. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    Christians believe God is perfect. Any misinterpretations are done by humans, which are less than perfect.
    Just as Muslims believe that Allah is perfect. I fail to see how this is bad.
    07-01-2013 01:59 PM
  8. return_0's Avatar
    Yes, I'm serious. Around 2000 years since Jesus died, and probably a couple of thousand before then. Most experts say no more than 5000 years. Not "millions" as so-called scientists are saying. The very first words in the Bible tell of God creating Heaven and Earth.
    Why do you claim to know so much about this when you haven't even studied all the arguments? No one says the earth is millions of years old. It's a proven fact that Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    gnr_2, Aquila and msndrstood like this.
    07-01-2013 02:00 PM
  9. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Just as Muslims believe that Allah is perfect. I fail to see how this is bad.
    It's not bad at all. Just a belief.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 02:02 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Why do you claim to know so much about this when you haven't even studied all the arguments? No one says the earth is millions of years old. It's a proven fact that Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Carbon dating is obviously a flawed science.

    /sarcasm
    gnr_2 and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 02:03 PM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    I think belief in god is very different than believing in religious teachings.

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    07-01-2013 02:04 PM
  12. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Don't feel bad. Sin is just a man-made concept.
    Come on, Let's not bash each others beliefs. Its fundamental to many. We can't expect respect for our beliefs if we aren't willing to give it in return.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    nolittdroid and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 02:06 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    Come on, Let's not bash each others beliefs. Its fundamental to many. We can't expect respect for our beliefs if we aren't willing to give it in return.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    Echo this. What IS clear is that we all believe different things. What I wonder is why we can't agree that this clearly means that none of these beliefs justify unequal treatment in legislation.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-01-2013 02:08 PM
  14. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I never said anything like that.

    I'm merely against same sex marriage.

    Marriage is supposed to be for a man and a woman, period.

    If someone is gay so be it, give them their rights, but not in the form of marriage
    That's EXACTLY what you are saying. Because by not eliminating DOMA, Edith Windsor pays $360,000 more then a straight counterpart. Now as for you notion that we can have rights just somewhere else, hmmm....does that sound familiar to you? It should. And just like all the separate drinking fountains, separate doorways, separate seats on the bus, separate pools and separate lunch counters, the separatism you call for, is no less unacceptable.

    No one said anything about taking rights away.

    Read my post afterwards, I specifically stated that no one should have any rights taken away.
    Ah, then that should mean you are okay with Prop 8 going bye bye, since gay people had the right to marry, had a taken away with Prop 8, and now have it back again. I agree!

    But everyone in this country has always had the ability to marry anyone of the opposite sex that they choose.
    No one is denied the ability to marry
    This is always such a BS argument. It's like someone in the 1960's saying a black person wasn't denied service at a restaurant because they could still come in, but just through the back door and sit at the separate lunch counter. Guess Rosa Parks wasn't denied anything either cause she still had the ability to get from point A to point B and she still could get on the bus. But those things were stopped because rightfully so, they were offensive to blacks. Your call for a separate set of terms and rights for gay person is JUST as offensive. I don't need to be treated differently any more then you do.

    But to your point...why do people marry...do they marry the first person they see with opposite parts? Or is there a more compelling reason then that going on? You saying that to me, is like me telling you that you have the same right to marry a man. So does that make you want to rush out and marry one? Why not? Can't you be just as happy with a man since you seem to think that is so interchangeable for me? A gay person marrying someone of the opposite sex would be just as fraudulent and just as much of a lie as you marrying someone of the same gender. Yeah you could do it, but there really would be no reason or basis for it. Gay people are looking for one thing only....the same ability to marry the person they love just like you can and not be treated like second class citizens. Whether you personally approve or not is just as irrelevant as a KKK member disapproving of an interracial marriage.
    nolittdroid, gnr_2, Aquila and 2 others like this.
    07-01-2013 02:11 PM
  15. AngelArs's Avatar
    It's simply a matter of respect.
    That goes both ways of course.

    You either respect other people's beliefs or you don't.
    Semantics. Before a set of people respect each others beliefs their definition of both concepts need to be the same.
    07-01-2013 02:14 PM
  16. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    That goes both ways of course.

    Semantics. Before a set of people respect each others beliefs their definition of both concepts need to be the same.
    To get respect, you must first give it. If everyone went around disrespecting everyone else because we have some feeling of entitlement, we would be stuck in the stone ages. Someone has to budge somewhere. Why lower yourself to someone else's level of disrespect?

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    Aquila likes this.
    07-01-2013 02:20 PM
  17. GadgetGator's Avatar
    But we do live in a place where exclusion and rules apply. For example the rules of age do limit the rights of some people. Let's say that a 12 year old boy and a 11 year old girl want to get married and think they have the right to do so. Should they be able to?
    Another flawed analogy. For several reasons. You are comparing children to adult behavior. But also, those children can at some point in the future marry when they are old enough. Conversely what people are saying to gay people is that you are denied the right to marry, FOREVER. No matter how far into the future you go.

    I could also say that the gay community is infringing on my rights because they are trying to undermine my religious freedom by calling marriage something that it isn't.
    You could, but you'll have to make a better case out of that argument then the Prop 8 supporters did in court. You'll somehow have to show actual harm to you...either physically or monetarily that warrants denying a whole class of people access to a certain right. Good luck with that.
    07-01-2013 02:21 PM
  18. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    That goes both ways of course.

    Semantics. Before a set of people respect each others beliefs their definition of both concepts need to be the same.
    Of course it goes both ways. Is not the definition of respect fairly universal? Or are you going to split hairs on that subject?
    07-01-2013 02:24 PM
  19. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    It's not bad at all. Just a belief.
    Which brings up my next point: Since when is it okay to insult another's religion? Just because I do not agree with, or understand, another religion does not mean that I will insult said religion.
    07-01-2013 02:26 PM
  20. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Which brings up my next point: Since when is it okay to insult another's religion? Just because I do not agree with, or understand, another religion does not mean that I will insult said religion.
    Please note the prior three posts by Kevin and myself.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    07-01-2013 02:29 PM
  21. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Which brings up my next point: Since when is it okay to insult another's religion? Just because I do not agree with, or understand, another religion does not mean that I will insult said religion.
    Are you saying that I did that specifically, or just people in general? If you're saying people in general, then I definitely agree. It's not ok, and that's the point I was trying to get across.
    07-01-2013 02:40 PM
  22. AngelArs's Avatar
    To get respect, you must first give it.
    I agree but respect and admiration go hand in hand and there must also be a reason to give it. If you just give out respect for no reason then it loses it's meaning.

    Also, I fail to see how you can make the assumption that
    simply discussing the concept of sin is 'bashing' someones belief, certainly not me as I was once studying to be a priest. Everyones beliefs are their own, and how they arrive at those beliefs are their own. What was said was simple and is a historical fundamental truth.
    07-01-2013 02:42 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    More freedom and more equality always :-)

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-01-2013 02:43 PM
  24. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Why do you claim to know so much about this when you haven't even studied all the arguments? No one says the earth is millions of years old. It's a proven fact that Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Proven by who? And please don't say carbon dating. It has been proven to be wrong.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-01-2013 02:45 PM
  25. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Proven by who? And please don't say carbon dating. It has been proven to be wrong.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Link please? To a credible article that says carbon dating is completely wrong. Not just that it's not absolutely accurate (it's close enough).

    No, I'm not one to normally ask for links, but in this case I'm really curious and would like to know more.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 02:51 PM
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