06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    Please note the prior three posts by Kevin and myself.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    Please see my reply to Kevin below. I feel that it will clear up my rather poorly worded reply.
    Are you saying that I did that specifically, or just people in general? If you're saying people in general, then I definitely agree. It's not ok, and that's the point I was trying to get across.
    My apologies, I should have made my reply more clear. I am talking about in general, and my post was NOT directed towards you. I apologize for the confusion! I believe that we are trying to make the same point.
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    07-01-2013 02:51 PM
  2. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I agree but respect and admiration go hand in hand and there must also be a reason to give it. If you just give out respect for no reason then it loses it's meaning.

    Also, I fail to see how you can make the assumption that
    simply discussing the concept of sin is 'bashing' someones belief, certainly not me as I was once studying to be a priest. Everyones beliefs are their own, and how they arrive at those beliefs are their own. What was said was simple and is a historical fundamental truth.
    (see bold)

    Because you want to be given it in return....
    07-01-2013 02:52 PM
  3. msndrstood's Avatar
    Don't feel bad. Sin is just a man-made concept.
    Oh believe me, I don't. Sin is a man made concept. No baby is born with 'sin' I don't care what the Bible or any other book says. Religion and it's dogma is designed to control people, plain and simple. And no one is ever going to convince me otherwise. I've seen both sides of this coin, and that's my conclusion.

    Go ahead, flame on.

    What?! ... I'm msndrstood.
    via Note II
    AngelArs likes this.
    07-01-2013 02:55 PM
  4. The Hustleman's Avatar
    So homosexuals should have rights, but not all rights?

    You know what that's synonymous with?

    "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

    Stop twisting my meaning. If you're unsure if something I said it what I meant by it, just ask. I won't take offense.

    And I never said they shouldn't have all rights, i think they should.

    You only feel that way because that is the way you've been conditioned to think. There are many who would say that marriage is supposed to be between two people in love, and they'd be right too.
    If you say so. I still say marriage should be between a man and a woman.

    That's EXACTLY what you are saying. Because by eliminating DOMA, Edith Windsor pays $360,000 more then a straight counterpart. Now as for you notion that we can have rights just somewhere else, hmmm....does that sound familiar to you? It should. And just like all the separate drinking fountains, separate doorways, separate seats on the bus, separate pools and separate lunch counters, the separatism you call for, is no less unacceptable.
    No that is not what I'm saying. Ask me what I'm saying instead of assuming.

    Saying I don't believe in same sex marriage is totally not equivalent to segregation.

    For the millionth time, I think gays should have the same rights as anyone else and you'll never find me saying anything different.



    Ah, then that should mean you are okay with Prop 8 going bye bye, since gay people had the right to marry, had a taken away with Prop 8, and now have it back again. I agree!
    Um no.

    I'm against same sex marriage period.

    I'm not against them having the same rights as anyone else, just the marriage.



    This is always such a BS argument. It's like someone in the 1960's saying a black person wasn't denied service at a restaurant because they could still come in, but just through the back door and sit at the separate lunch counter. Guess Rosa Parks wasn't denied anything either cause she still had the ability to get from point A to point B and she still could get on the bus. But those things were stopped because rightfully so, they were offensive to blacks. Your call for a separate set of terms and rights for gay person is JUST as offensive. I don't need to be treated differently any more then you do.
    Race and ethnicity have nothing in common.

    They just aren't comparable.



    But to your point...why do people marry...do they marry the first person they see with opposite parts? Or is there a more compelling reason then that going on? You saying that to me, is like me telling you that you have the same right to marry a man. So does that make you want to rush out and marry one? Why not? Can't you be just as happy with a man since you seem to think that is so interchangeable for me? A gay person marrying someone of the opposite sex would be just as fraudulent and just as much of a lie as you marrying someone of the same gender. Yeah you could do it, but there really would be no reason or basis for it. Gay people are looking for one thing only....the same ability to marry the person they love just like you can and not be treated like second class citizens. Whether you personally approve or not is just as irrelevant as a KKK member disapproving of an interracial marriage.

    You kill me with the race comparisons, they are simply invalid.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    07-01-2013 02:55 PM
  5. AngelArs's Avatar
    (Because you want to be given it in return....
    OK, admittedly I must have missed something here.... LOL. Your response could mean many things.
    07-01-2013 02:59 PM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar

    For the millionth time, I think gays should have the same rights as anyone else and you'll never find me saying anything different.





    Um no.

    I'm against same sex marriage period.

    I'm not against them having the same rights as anyone else, just the marriage.
    I left the relevant parts....and will italicize the parts that are contradictory. Please explain how those two things can possible exist in the same space.

    You have the right to marry who you love, but you don't want them to have that same right.
    lpt2569, Aquila and GadgetGator like this.
    07-01-2013 03:00 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar


    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 03:03 PM
  8. AngelArs's Avatar
    I still say marriage should be between a man and a woman.
    And that's fine, and you have a right to your opinion. The only part that is troubling is that you apparently have no logical reason to make such a statement. I would always defend your right to have such an opinion, as I believe strongly in freedom, but that same belief in freedom also finds it troubling that what you said effects the actual lives of so many people who never did anything wrong.
    07-01-2013 03:08 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    If we all truly had a right to our opinion, then this thread would never have exploded like it has.
    Anyone with a differing opinion is beaten down, vilified, chastised and belittled.

    So therefore, we obviously DON'T.

    STOP kidding yourselves.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    msndrstood and AngelArs like this.
    07-01-2013 03:13 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    If we all truly had a right to our opinion, then this thread would never have exploded like it has.

    So therefore, we obviously DON'T.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    Some people lack the ability to accept others opinions and respect their beliefs.

    Read this thread and see if you can figure out who.... (hint: more than one)
    07-01-2013 03:16 PM
  11. pappy53's Avatar
    Which 'jesus' are you referring to? There are so many that have fit this mythological characters description over the ages.
    There is only one Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
    07-01-2013 03:21 PM
  12. llamabreath's Avatar
    Some people lack the ability to accept others opinions and respect their beliefs.

    Read this thread and see if you can figure out who.... (hint: more than one)
    Everyone here, except for you, Matt and Jen. Therein lies my point.
    Thanks for clarifying.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    07-01-2013 03:23 PM
  13. AngelArs's Avatar
    Sin is a man made concept.
    Thank you.

    Religion and it's dogma is designed to control people, plain and simple.
    Religion is not a conspiracy. Yes, many people take advantage of it to control others, true, but the latest research shows that a part of the human brain is actually designed to be vulnerable to it. And then there's the whole god gene discovery. Mankind has always been driven to find answers to the worlds questions. Would it not be natural for mankind to wonder where he came from, and what else is out there? That is not a 'design' as you put it, but more a yearning for answers.
    07-01-2013 03:34 PM
  14. The Hustleman's Avatar
    I left the relevant parts....and will italicize the parts that are contradictory. Please explain how those two things can possible exist in the same space.

    You have the right to marry who you love, but you don't want them to have that same right.

    It isn't contradictory at all if you've read my explanations earlier.


    They SHOULD have the same rights as anyone else (death benefits, life insurance, ability to be with a partner in the hospital, tax benefits, medical benefits etc) but I still don't think MARRIAGE should be it - I already stated how it could be done where they get what they want and not have a marriage.

    And that's fine, and you have a right to your opinion. The only part that is troubling is that you apparently have no logical reason to make such a statement. I would always defend your right to have such an opinion, as I believe strongly in freedom, but that same belief in freedom also finds it troubling that what you said effects the actual lives of so many people who never did anything wrong.
    There IS logic.

    A man's body was made for a woman's body - why else do you think they fit so well together? Why else do you think this is the only way to reproduce?

    2 Men cannot reproduce with each other regardless of what they do no matter how healthy and normal their sex organs are. This is a logical fact.

    A family is a husband, wife, and children..


    There is very much logic - but if you choose not to accept it that's a personal problem.
    07-01-2013 03:43 PM
  15. return_0's Avatar
    For the millionth time, I think gays should have the same rights as anyone else and you'll never find me saying anything different.

    I'm against same sex marriage period.

    I'm not against them having the same rights as anyone else, just the marriage.
    Do you not realize how hypocritical you're being?

    You're saying that gays should have all rights... but you're also saying that they shouldn't have the right to marry. Marriage is a right, not a privilege. So by saying gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, you're saying that they shouldn't have all rights.

    And if you say that marriage is a privilege, what makes heterosexuals more deserving of marriage? The fact that they were born that way? So should left-handed people have less rights than right-handed people? Should blacks have less rights than whites?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-01-2013 03:51 PM
  16. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I will find the article and a link and post it here. Its funny to me that people take science at face value when it constantly changes historical facts, ideals, and theories. Doesnt science require the same type of faith on many levels? While some people may not believe in God or the Bible(KING JAMES), he and it have always been the same down through time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-01-2013 03:52 PM
  17. msndrstood's Avatar
    Thank you.


    Religion is not a conspiracy. Yes, many people take advantage of it to control others, true, but the latest research shows that a part of the human brain is actually designed to be vulnerable to it. And then there's the whole god gene discovery. Mankind has always been driven to find answers to the worlds questions. Would it not be natural for mankind to wonder where he came from, and what else is out there? That is not a 'design' as you put it, but more a yearning for answers.
    If that premise were true, then everyone would be drawn to religion and it's concepts. Some people do seem to need religion for fulfillment of a deep seated need. Others do not have the need or the desire for such. That would prove the research wrong.

    Sent from my Note II using Tapatalk 2
    07-01-2013 03:54 PM
  18. llamabreath's Avatar
    Should blacks have less rights than whites?
    Heh. I was told I was the one that kept bringing race into it.

    This is just one example otherwise.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    msndrstood and The Hustleman like this.
    07-01-2013 03:55 PM
  19. msndrstood's Avatar
    I will find the article and a link and post it here. Its funny to me that people take science at face value when it constantly changes historical facts, ideals, and theories. Doesnt science require the same type of faith on many levels? While some people may not believe in God or the Bible(KING JAMES), he and it have always been the same down through time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Science may change when new facts are discovered. The Bible cannot be proven as absolute. There is no direct evidence for much of what is stated and accepted as fact in the Bible. God has changed through the millenia, hence the different faiths and religions. Life is change.

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
    Aquila likes this.
    07-01-2013 03:58 PM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    The comparison of different rules for different races is exactly correct in the hearts and minds of those who are currently being oppressed. You're entitled to disagree, but not to continue the oppression. Again, other than orientation, what other reasons are there for different laws for different people? If you hate marriage equality, for anyone, that ought to raise some serious red flags. The notion of freedom is simple: if you do not wish to participate in a same sex marriage, then do not. If you want to, then do so. The point is equality, not whether or not you enjoy there principle... but that the law protects it anyways.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    msndrstood and GadgetGator like this.
    07-01-2013 04:00 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    Science may change when new facts are discovered. The Bible cannot be proven as absolute. There is no direct evidence for much of what is stated and accepted as fact in the Bible. God has changed through the millenia, hence the different faiths and religions. Life is change.

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
    That's actually the point... Science grows with new information, while the bible, by it's claims of perfection, cannot. That is the reason that it is still in its inaccurate forms, rather than an amended one. It rejects truth seeking by it's nature, however the more nimble minded theologians will reinterpret to coincide with modern morality and contemporary issues.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-01-2013 04:06 PM
  22. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    It isn't contradictory at all if you've read my explanations earlier.


    They SHOULD have the same rights as anyone else (death benefits, life insurance, ability to be with a partner in the hospital, tax benefits, medical benefits etc) but I still don't think MARRIAGE should be it - I already stated how it could be done where they get what they want and not have a marriage.



    There IS logic.

    A man's body was made for a woman's body - why else do you think they fit so well together? Why else do you think this is the only way to reproduce?

    2 Men cannot reproduce with each other regardless of what they do no matter how healthy and normal their sex organs are. This is a logical fact.

    A family is a husband, wife, and children..


    There is very much logic - but if you choose not to accept it that's a personal problem.
    Those things you listed are not rights, they are benefits of being married.

    You're still excluding an entire group of people from the RIGHT of marriage. Yes, you listed ways that they could receive the same Federal benefits, but that's not the same as being married.

    Some of your logic is based on beliefs and ideals. While I most definitely respect them, I don't have to agree with them. Your definition of what a family is is not the only acceptable definition.

    It's reached the point that trying to explain that you saying "they can have all the same rights as everyone else" and "except marriage" are contradictory is an exercise in futility. We will probably never be able to reconcile the difference of opinion between what you're saying, and what I'm trying to explain.

    Unless you mean that marriage is not a right? Is that what you're saying? If so, that changes the conversation....
    msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 04:07 PM
  23. msndrstood's Avatar
    Look, the bottom line to all of this back and forth about gay marriage, religion and just about anything and everything else is this, if you don't want a gay marriage, don't get one... If you like your religion, good for you, you'll be happy with it. Just please, leave everyone else alone. We're not bothering you, especially those of us who don't want your or any one else's religion, just enjoy yours and let the rest of us enjoy this life and whatever comes after this life. We promise, we won't blame you whatever awaits us. Maybe, we'll even see you there.

    Sent via Note II
    nolittdroid and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 04:08 PM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    There is only one Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
    Okay, but which one is that? The Mormon one? The Catholic version? Is the Prophet Muhammad's teachings of Jesus correct? Or only the Lutheran? Is Jesus really Horus? Or Camille? Why are there stories of Jesus' acts and properties in polytheistic faiths for over 15,000 years before he is born? When the majority of early Christians believed Jesus a mortal prophet, were they right? Or is the 5th century creation of the Trinity correct?

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    07-01-2013 04:19 PM
  25. msndrstood's Avatar
    Okay, but which one is that? The Mormon one? The Catholic version? Is the Prophet Muhammad's teachings of Jesus correct? Or only the Lutheran? Is Jesus really Horus? Or Camille? Why are there stories of Jesus' acts and properties in polytheistic faiths for over 15,000 years before he is born? When the majority of early Christians believed Jesus a mortal prophet, were they right? Or is the 5th century creation of the Trinity correct?

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    Thank you. My point exactly.

    Sent via Note II
    07-01-2013 04:24 PM
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