06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. pappy53's Avatar
    I always wonder how many Atheists and agnostics, when on their deathbed, pray to God to save their soul? Probably a large number. A person never knows until death is staring them in the eyes.
    I stand by my Lord and Savior, and I reiterate the above statement.
    And with that, I am out of this thread. I'll pray for everyone, as it won't do any harm. Have a blessed day.
    Aquila likes this.
    07-01-2013 04:41 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    I stand by my Lord and Savior, and I reiterate the above statement.
    And with that, I am out of this thread. I'll pray for everyone, as it won't do any harm. Have a blessed day.
    Thanks! You too!

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 04:42 PM
  3. AngelArs's Avatar
    There IS logic.
    Then post some. You haven't so far.

    A man's body was made for a woman's body - why else do you think they fit so well together?
    Apparently you don't know that much about evolution or conception, and you assume that there can only be humans with male and female genitalia. Unfortunately for your bias ambiguous genitalia and hermaphrodites do exist, so nature disagrees with you. Sperm contain either an XY set of sexual chromosomes, or they contain a XX set. The advantage of the XY is that they swim faster and are less influenced by mucosal ph and uterine changes. However the XX's tend to live longer so they naturally have timing advantages for the selection of sex of the fetus. Human zygote is influenced by the amount of progesterone, maternal estrogen, or testosterone that is circulating within the maternal environment. Evolution is what drives our species, and Im pretty sure that evolution doesnt care much about marriage, as demonstrated in the fact that many babies are born out of wedlock. Sorry, what you said was not logical but instead more likely what you have been conditioned to believe.


    Why else do you think this is the only way to reproduce?
    Really? So artificial insemination, embryo transfer, IVF an Intra-Cytoplasmic Sperm Injection are all science fiction? There are in fact around 17 other ways to have a baby other than the traditional way youre so focused on.

    A family is a husband, wife, and children.
    Well that's ONE example. A single woman or man raising a child/children would be another example. The word family actually comes from the latin familia, which is ANY group of people who have an affinity or a co-residence with one another.

    There is very much logic.
    LOL...Still waiting for you to actually post some....
    GadgetGator, Aquila and return_0 like this.
    07-01-2013 04:48 PM
  4. GadgetGator's Avatar
    No that is not what I'm saying. Ask me what I'm saying instead of assuming.
    I didn't assume anything. You stated it in your post. You said you were upset with DOMA falling by the wayside. There are so many wrong things that DOMA allows to happen that it's hard to know where to even begin. But let me try...it's DOMA that keeps people like Edith Windsor paying $360,000 dollars more in taxes. It's DOMA that keeps people from collecting social security survivor benefits. It's DOMA that keeps binational couples appart. It's DOMA that keeps a spouse of someone in the military from being buried next to them should they die. For that matter, it keeps them from shopping at the company store even. Keeping DOMA (as you wanted) allows ALL of those things to continue happening.

    Saying I don't believe in same sex marriage is totally not equivalent to segregation.
    Ironic comment coming from someone who wants to segregate gays into a separate relationship category.

    For the millionth time, I think gays should have the same rights as anyone else and you'll never find me saying anything different.
    But that's just it...you seem completely oblivious to the fact that many things ONLY come with the benefit of marriage. Spousal protections in courts, social security benefits, spousal immigration....none of that happens without marriage. So by saying that gays should be excluded from something (ignoring the 14th amendment of the Constitution in the process) you are saying that we should also be excluded from all the other things that come with that...whether you realize it or not.

    Um no.

    I'm against same sex marriage period.

    I'm not against them having the same rights as anyone else, just the marriage.
    Then you're being hypocritical to even your own statements. You said you didn't want anyone to lose rights or have anything taken away from them. Well, that is EXACTLY what Prop 8 did. It reversed an existing right that we already had. So does the ludicrous Constitutional Amendment idea that is being floated around by some Kansas Congressman right now. Today in fact. He just introduced it into the House.

    They SHOULD have the same rights as anyone else (death benefits, life insurance, ability to be with a partner in the hospital, tax benefits, medical benefits etc) but I still don't think MARRIAGE should be it - I already stated how it could be done where they get what they want and not have a marriage.

    There IS logic.
    Actually, there is no logic to that whatsoever. In addition to all the problems I listed up above, only a marriage transfers across state lines. What you are proposing...that I have all the same rights...is impossible without the actual thing we are talking about in the first place: Marriage.

    A man's body was made for a woman's body - why else do you think they fit so well together? Why else do you think this is the only way to reproduce?

    2 Men cannot reproduce with each other regardless of what they do no matter how healthy and normal their sex organs are. This is a logical fact.

    A family is a husband, wife, and children..
    So a husband and wife are not a "family" unless they have children? How about if they don't get married at all, but still have children? Are they a family then??? What about the gay or lesbian couples that have kids? Are they not a family??

    I'll tell you what...my husband-to-be and I are very much a family, every bit as much as two married people who do not have any children at all. Your comments that I should be limited in some way, and separated out are so offensive that it is difficult to even know where to begin with you. All I can hope, is that someday you get it though your head that your comments are just as offensive and outrageous to me, as if I were to tell you that you should enter through a separate doorway or swim in a different pool. In a country where all of us are supposed to be equal and all have access to the same rights, there is no room for discrimination. Telling me to have a different relationship, IS discrimination. You want to make me unequal in some way. You view me as inferior and needing a separate term. No, I will be using the same one that everyone else uses and the same one that gays and lesbians have been using in this country (state of MA) for nearly a decade. I will NOT be drinking from a separate fountain.
    07-01-2013 04:54 PM
  5. AngelArs's Avatar
    If that premise were true, then everyone would be drawn to religion and it's concepts.
    Not true. The defective VMAT2 gene is not inherated in everyones brain, the same as not everyone is addicted to gambling or taking alcohol or drugs.

    Some people do seem to need religion for fulfillment of a deep seated need.
    You don't understand how the defective VMAT2 gene works. it literally gives them a buzz (a high) being predisposed towards spiritual experiences.

    Others do not have the need or the desire for such. That would prove the research wrong.
    Wrong. It actually verifies it.
    07-01-2013 05:05 PM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    ...that your comments are just as offensive and outrageous to me, as if I were to tell you that you should enter through a separate doorway or swim in a different pool. In a country where all of us are supposed to be equal and all have access to the same rights, there is no room for discrimination. Telling me to have a different relationship, IS discrimination. You want to make me unequal in some way. You view me as inferior and needing a separate term. No, I will be using the same one that everyone else uses and the same one that gays and lesbians have been using in this country (state of MA) for nearly a decade. I will NOT be drinking from a separate fountain.
    Hmm.... race seems to have been brought up again (and it wasn't by me). It was brought up by (as i said it has been) yet another gay marriage advocate.
    That's twice in just the past hour or so. Need i point out all the other instances in this thread? Or have i made my point.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    07-01-2013 05:16 PM
  7. msndrstood's Avatar
    Not true. The defective VMAT2 gene is not inherated in everyones brain, the same as not everyone is addicted to gambling or taking alcohol or drugs.


    You don't understand how the defective VMAT2 gene works. it literally gives them a buzz (a high) being predisposed towards spiritual experiences.

    Wrong. It actually verifies it.
    I'm glad I don't have it.

    I haven't delved into the research as you apparently have, so I really can't speak to the issue any more than I have done so.

    I will look it up as soon as I get a chance though.



    Sent via Note II
    AngelArs likes this.
    07-01-2013 05:18 PM
  8. AngelArs's Avatar
    All I can hope, is that someday you get it though your head that your comments are just as offensive and outrageous to me, as if I were to tell you that you should enter through a separate doorway or swim in a different pool. In a country where all of us are supposed to be equal and all have access to the same rights, there is no room for discrimination.
    I agree 100% but don't hold your breath on any of them changing their mind. It's actually not their fault. Most people who feel as they do were conditioned or indoctrinated into their religion. Facts and logic won't sway them, the same as you can tell a person who smokes that it's killing them and they won't stop. All you can do is get out and vote how you feel at every opportunity, and hopefully that will change this country for the better.
    msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 05:21 PM
  9. The Hustleman's Avatar
    it's obvious my comments are going over a lot of peoples' heads in here and they obviously aren't grasping so I'll break it down one more time via a quote and I'm out of here.

    Honestly there should be a separation of church and state so I don't think the government should even be involved in marriages. [[[notice I didn't say same sex marriages, just marriages, govt. shouldn't be involved period!]]]

    Everyone in the eyes of the government (gay or straight) should have a civil union with the same legal benefits as marriage currently is and get rid of the marriage term from government regardless of sexuality. [[[[funny how all of you completely missed this. Where's the discrimination with removing marriage from the govt. definition altogether and calling it ALL civil union - man/man, woman/woman, man/woman - all simply civil unions to the govt. and treated the exact same way as marriage is right now - WHERE is the harm in that?!?!? NO ONE gets married.]]]


    That way the gays get the benefits everyone else gets and there's no issue.

    My wife and I would have a "civil union" in the eyes of the government as would Adam and Steve. No discrimination there, win - win situation.

    ^^^so again - what is wrong with that scenario of keeping the govt. out of marriage?

    let the churches handle marriage.


    I think some people try to find discrimination where there isn't any...
    07-01-2013 05:24 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Hmm.... race seems to have been brought up again (and it wasn't by me). It was brought up by (as i said it has been) yet another gay marriage advocate.
    That's twice in just the past hour or so. Need i point out all the other instances in this thread? Or have i made my point.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    I gotta be honest, I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make. Is it that racism and being anti-gay are the same? They aren't EXACTLY the same, but the same sorts of behavior applies to both.

    And yes, it's not lost on me that I was the one that said you brought it up all the time. When I said that, you were. I didn't say that you were the only one bringing it up, though.
    07-01-2013 05:25 PM
  11. msndrstood's Avatar
    Not true. The defective VMAT2 gene is not inherated in everyones brain, the same as not everyone is addicted to gambling or taking alcohol or drugs.


    You don't understand how the defective VMAT2 gene works. it literally gives them a buzz (a high) being predisposed towards spiritual experiences.

    Wrong. It actually verifies it.
    Aah, I see. I read the Wiki version and it is a hypothesis that has not been published or peer reviewed. So it remains a hypothesis. An interesting one. Again, I'm glad I'm immune.

    What?! ... I'm msndrstood.
    via Note II
    07-01-2013 05:30 PM
  12. AngelArs's Avatar
    let the churches handle marriage.
    Let the churches handle marriage? LOL... Why? Marriage has NOTHING to do with churches. That's a tradition, not a prerequisite. You do know that a couple can easily get married by a justice of the peace, right?
    Aquila likes this.
    07-01-2013 05:36 PM
  13. AngelArs's Avatar
    Aah, I see. I read the Wiki version and it is a hypothesis that has not been published or peer reviewed.
    Not sure how updated that information is. Sounds like it was written around 3 years ago or so. The last I heard they were working on a combination of gene therapy and a vaccine and even considering trying it out in the middle east. Would certainly be a good place to test it... Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase 'god I love technology"
    07-01-2013 05:45 PM
  14. llamabreath's Avatar
    I gotta be honest, I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make. Is it that racism and being anti-gay are the same? They aren't EXACTLY the same, but the same sorts of behavior applies to both.

    And yes, it's not lost on me that I was the one that said you brought it up all the time. When I said that, you were. I didn't say that you were the only one bringing it up, though.
    As i said (one more time), inflammatory words such as racist and hate should not be bounced around like a ping pong ball by people here (or anywhere) when at a loss for better terms. Maybe there are similarities, as you say... but there quite possibly could be better terms utilized.

    I lost almost half my family when i married my wife. They can surly tell any of you my feelings towards race. THEY are the ones that would speak with hate (for lack of a better term).

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 05:47 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    it's obvious my comments are going over a lot of peoples' heads in here
    I know we were cautioned not to throw around words like, "absurd, ignorant or delusional"... but if you don't realize how absurd that statement is, holy cow.
    msndrstood and GadgetGator like this.
    07-01-2013 05:49 PM
  16. JHBThree's Avatar
    But we do live in a place where exclusion and rules apply. For example the rules of age do limit the rights of some people. Let's say that a 12 year old boy and a 11 year old girl want to get married and think they have the right to do so. Should they be able to? Or maybe we can push the boundary further and say maybe there is a 12 year old girl who wants to marry a 28 year old man. The girl is smart and well spoken and goes to court to fight for her right to choose. This is just one example of why we make rules based on what we feel as a society should be acceptable.

    I could also say that the gay community is infringing on my rights because they are trying to undermine my religious freedom by calling marriage something that it isn't. Does that mean that I can legislate or modify other religions in order to make them work to my lifestyle? What if I called myself a Jew or Muslim but I want to eat pork as part of my religious experience? I should have the right to do this but I shouldn't be able to call myself a Jew or Muslim because my lifestyle doesn't follow the rules. It is now something else. Exclusion has to happen or we can't maintain what original structure of what was created.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    You're confusing something: gays don't want religious marriage, we want legal marriage. Its a fine distinction, and one that doesn't mean what you think it means.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 05:59 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    You're confusing something: gays don't want religious marriage, we want legal marriage. Its a fine distinction, and one that doesn't mean what you think it means.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    The word marriage came from the Bible, which, of course, is religious.

    This thread is going to be a never-ending circle.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-01-2013 06:00 PM
  18. AngelArs's Avatar
    I know we were cautioned not to throw around words like, "absurd, ignorant or delusional"... but if you don't realize how absurd that statement is, holy cow.
    I'm sure someone from the cow league will get upset with that. LOL...
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 06:01 PM
  19. JHBThree's Avatar
    Stop twisting my meaning. If you're unsure if something I said it what I meant by it, just ask. I won't take offense.

    And I never said they shouldn't have all rights, i think they should.



    If you say so. I still say marriage should be between a man and a woman.



    No that is not what I'm saying. Ask me what I'm saying instead of assuming.

    Saying I don't believe in same sex marriage is totally not equivalent to segregation.

    For the millionth time, I think gays should have the same rights as anyone else and you'll never find me saying anything different.





    Um no.

    I'm against same sex marriage period.

    I'm not against them having the same rights as anyone else, just the marriage.





    Race and ethnicity have nothing in common.

    They just aren't comparable.






    You kill me with the race comparisons, they are simply invalid.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    Race comparisons are perfectly valid and entirely instructive. The phrase 'those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it' is incredibly relevant here.

    The contradictions in your post are also quite puzzling.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    GadgetGator, msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 06:04 PM
  20. JHBThree's Avatar
    It isn't contradictory at all if you've read my explanations earlier.


    They SHOULD have the same rights as anyone else (death benefits, life insurance, ability to be with a partner in the hospital, tax benefits, medical benefits etc) but I still don't think MARRIAGE should be it - I already stated how it could be done where they get what they want and not have a marriage.



    There IS logic.

    A man's body was made for a woman's body - why else do you think they fit so well together? Why else do you think this is the only way to reproduce?

    2 Men cannot reproduce with each other regardless of what they do no matter how healthy and normal their sex organs are. This is a logical fact.

    A family is a husband, wife, and children..


    There is very much logic - but if you choose not to accept it that's a personal problem.
    A family to you is that. For me, a family is myself, my husband, and the children we will adopt. For my parents, their idea of family for myself and my sisters are the same.

    Your opinion of what a family should be should not dictate what I am legally and constitutionally entitled to.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
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    07-01-2013 06:06 PM
  21. AngelArs's Avatar
    The word marriage came from the Bible
    You really should reword that. The word "marriage" derives from Middle English mariage, which first appears in 12501300.
    07-01-2013 06:13 PM
  22. JHBThree's Avatar
    The word marriage came from the Bible, which, of course, is religious.

    This thread is going to be a never-ending circle.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    Yeah, no it didn't. The word marriage can be traced to the Romans before Catholicism, and further beyond that to the Greeks. It can also be traced to non-western and western secular culture as a concept entirely separate from religion. The bible was not the first to mention it, and certainly wasn't the first to describe it.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    GadgetGator and Aquila like this.
    07-01-2013 06:13 PM
  23. JHBThree's Avatar
    You really should reword that. The word "marriage" derives from Middle English mariage, which first appears in 12501300.
    Not to mention that it existed as a legal contract in ancient Greece before Christianity was a thing.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    07-01-2013 06:17 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    Well maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's all I might be wrong about.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 06:19 PM
  25. AngelArs's Avatar
    Race comparisons are perfectly valid and entirely instructive. The phrase 'those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it' is incredibly relevant here.
    Well stated! It's so sad that revealing facts are frowned upon.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-01-2013 06:21 PM
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