06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    I must have missed something. So, do you have children? And if you do, once you heard about the pregnancy, did you at that time consider it as your child? Or did you wait for the cells to develop?
    I pose that question to any parent on here.
    What does "how you feel" have to do with "what is real" and/or "what is law"? Your question has no relevance. Of course parents feel differently about things than every other parent ever. It's a huge emotional torrent with thoughts of all kinds racing everywhere.
    07-03-2013 11:10 PM
  2. JHBThree's Avatar
    I must have missed something. So, do you have children? And if you do, once you heard about the pregnancy, did you at that time consider it as your child? Or did you wait for the cells to develop?
    I pose that question to any parent on here.
    Read the thread. Then you'll realize why your question is silly.
    07-03-2013 11:11 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Read the thread. Then you'll realize why your question is silly.
    I think you're asking for something that isn't going to happen. They're not reading or critically thinking, just reacting. I'm not saying that to be mean... just that we're wasting our time. I'm actually not sure why it's so hard to not try to correct the logic mistakes.
    07-03-2013 11:13 PM
  4. pappy53's Avatar
    Not true. Not even close. The latest polls indicate that 70 percent of Americans say that Roe v. Wade should not be overturned. Try again.
    Do your research:
    Poll: Pro-Life Majority Re-Emerges - Guy Benson

    Roe at 40: Polling Shows Americans are Pro-Life on Abortion | LifeNews.com

    Americans now favor pro-life, just as I stated.
    07-03-2013 11:13 PM
  5. return_0's Avatar
    Lol, you're referencing anti-choice organizations to make your point about pro-choice v anti-choice?
    gnr_2 likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:17 PM
  6. AngelArs's Avatar
    Life begins at conception.
    Life on this planet is a continual process. I'm pretty sure it was around a long time before that sperm said hi to that egg.

    And women are doing it at 5 or 6 months, and that is definitely not a "small ball of cells".
    Doing what? Having an abortion? They're having miscarriages too, which by the way far out number the amount of what you're talking about. Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. That's around 4.5 million per year just in the U.S. alone.
    07-03-2013 11:18 PM
  7. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    The same Dec. 27-30 poll also updated Gallup's longest-running trend on abortion attitudes. This asks Americans if abortion should be "legal under any circumstances," "legal only under certain circumstances," or "illegal in all circumstances." Currently, 52% favor the middle position, while 28% say it should always be legal and 18% never legal. Views on this have been fairly stable over the past four years.
    Gallup poll, January 2013

    I don't hate Christians. Hell, I've always said a little religion is good for most people. But I do hate not having the right facts presented.

    Edit: For the record, I'm more Buddhist than anything else when it comes to personal beliefs. Y'all can feel free to pick on that for a while if you like.
    Aquila likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:20 PM
  8. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I think you're asking for something that isn't going to happen. They're not reading or critically thinking, just reacting. I'm not saying that to be mean... just that we're wasting our time. I'm actually not sure why it's so hard to not try to correct the logic mistakes.
    Because logic is relative to your beliefs...you are saying my beliefs are illogical. I never said anyone's beliefs were not logical. And we are wasting our time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:21 PM
  9. pappy53's Avatar
    Life on this planet is a continual process. I'm pretty sure it was around a long time before that sperm said hi to that egg.

    Doing what? Having an abortion? They're having miscarriages too, which by the way far out number the amount of what you're talking about. Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. That's around 4.5 million per year just in the U.S. alone.
    How can you compare a miscarriage to the murder of an innocent child?
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:24 PM
  10. AngelArs's Avatar
    Do your research
    I did. In-fact I have a copy of the ACTUAL poll. You couldn't be more wrong.
    07-03-2013 11:25 PM
  11. pappy53's Avatar
    Gallup poll, January 2013

    I don't hate Christians. Hell, I've always said a little religion is good for most people. But I do hate not having the right facts presented.

    \


    Edit: For the record, I'm more Buddhist than anything else when it comes to personal beliefs. Y'all can feel free to pick on that for a while if you like.
    I presented the facts. Basically any poll shows that the majority of Americans are pro-life now. And it is a continuing trend.
    07-03-2013 11:26 PM
  12. Aquila's Avatar
    Because logic is relative to your beliefs...you are saying my beliefs are illogical. I never said anyone's beliefs were not logical. And we are wasting our time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Logic is by definition not relative.

    What I am saying is that you do not fully understand the implications of your beliefs because you have not studied them. I'm not saying you SHOULD study them, just that your understanding is vastly incomplete relative to experts on those very subjects that disagree with you. In that sense, if it were me I would want to learn more about the guiding principles of my life, but I don't expect you to do what I would want to do. That's the difference. You (not really you specifically, but I need a noun, so using it in a general sense) seem to want others to conform to your incomplete understanding of a book you don't seem to know much about. I want everyone to do what enhances their own lives and those of their friends, family, etc. For you, that's following your understanding of the teachings about Jesus. For me, it is similar, but our levels of understanding about theses precepts are very different. I'm not suggesting what you are doing is wrong in your own life, but the impact of forcing that incomplete understanding on everyone else is unbearable; especially to those who have more context to their understanding.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:30 PM
  13. pappy53's Avatar
    Lol, you're referencing anti-choice organizations to make your point about pro-choice v anti-choice?
    Okay, then let's throw Gallup in there: "Pro-Choice" Americans at Record-Low 41%
    07-03-2013 11:31 PM
  14. AngelArs's Avatar
    How can you compare a miscarriage to the murder of an innocent child?
    First it's NOT a child. Please learn basic definitions. A child is a human between the stages of birth and puberty. Since there is no birth it does NOT meet the criteria of the definition. Sorry. What you are referring to is actually called filicide. Try again.
    return_0 likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:34 PM
  15. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I presented the facts. Basically any poll shows that the majority of Americans are pro-life now. And it is a continuing trend.
    40 years after Roe v. Wade, how do Americans really feel about abortion? | Religion News Service

    That's incorrect. And this comes from a pro-religion website, which also happens to be full of different polls showing some interesting numbers.
    07-03-2013 11:35 PM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    Okay, then let's throw Gallup in there: "Pro-Choice" Americans at Record-Low 41%


    The same Dec. 27-30 poll also updated Gallup's longest-running trend on abortion attitudes. This asks Americans if abortion should be "legal under any circumstances," "legal only under certain circumstances," or "illegal in all circumstances." Currently, 52% favor the middle position, while 28% say it should always be legal and 18% never legal. Views on this have been fairly stable over the past four years.
    Obviously the disconnect here is between the labels and the positions. This exact same thing happens when you ask people which party they're in and then ask for their opinions on specific issues. People have no idea what their labels imply any more than the average church goer understands theology.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:35 PM
  17. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Okay, then let's throw Gallup in there: "Pro-Choice" Americans at Record-Low 41%
    from your source:
    Gallup's longest-running measure of abortion views, established in 1975, asks Americans if abortion should be legal in all circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances. Since 2001, at least half of Americans have consistently chosen the middle position, saying abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, and the 52% saying this today is similar to the 50% in May 2011. The 25% currently wanting abortion to be legal in all cases and the 20% in favor of making it illegal in all cases are also similar to last year's findings.
    badbrad17 and Aquila like this.
    07-03-2013 11:36 PM
  18. AngelArs's Avatar
    I presented the facts.
    You do know that presenting "your version" of the facts, is not the same thing as presenting the actual facts right? Go ahead, post the actual poll. I dare you....
    07-03-2013 11:38 PM
  19. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Let's be civil here. Pappy is, and he surely feels like he is being ganged up on. Discussion is good. Being mean is not.
    cdmjlt369, Aquila and badbrad17 like this.
    07-03-2013 11:40 PM
  20. AngelArs's Avatar
    Okay, then let's throw Gallup in there
    Too bad for you that was around a year and a half before the latest poll. Try again.
    07-03-2013 11:43 PM
  21. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Depends on who you are talking to as to what logic is used...therefore making it relative. But as has been said by people on both sides of the discussion. We are wasting our time it seems. Its good to know at least that we can conversate in a civil manner about such things. Good night friends.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Aquila likes this.
    07-03-2013 11:44 PM
  22. Farish's Avatar
    About these pro-life polls.

    Do they ever include or quantify people like me.

    Personally I am pro life. In my mind or situation, abortion will never be an option unless my significant other is at risk. This is how I felt for years, but there is a second part of this coming.

    I am also pro-choice because I believe it is none of my business what somebody else does. I rather if people in this situation put up the child for adoption or keep the child, but still none of my business.

    I wouldn't be surprise if a lot of the pro-life people are like me.
    Aquila and primevyl like this.
    07-04-2013 12:10 AM
  23. ekoee's Avatar
    I made an account just to say this:

    Abomination doesn't mean what you think it means. When translating from another language, you lose some meaning, but many scholars are certain it meant 'uncommon' in a sense that the chosen people (Israelites) would not do this, but they wouldn't persecute others for doing so (like many Greeks did).

    Secondly, Jesus walked around and said to love your neighbor before yourself. He spoke a message of equality and unity among all mankind. As a Christian, you should follow his example by not judging who you sit with, but rather by being a friend and soundboard to them. He hung out with people who were criminals. If we met Peter before he met Jesus, he would stab you and take your gold.

    Finally, persecuting a group or groups of people is not Christ-like. We are all entitled to our opinions, and Jesus's opinion is that of love against oppression. As a Christian, it should be obvious that we are not here to conquer others thoughts or beliefs on anything. You are here to be a backbone to your family and friends, to defend the meek, and to protect others against injustice.

    At least, that's what I learned in church.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-04-2013 12:11 AM
  24. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I made an account just to say this:

    Abomination doesn't mean what you think it means. When translating from another language, you lose some meaning, but many scholars are certain it meant 'uncommon' in a sense that the chosen people (Israelites) would not do this, but they wouldn't persecute others for doing so (like many Greeks did).

    Secondly, Jesus walked around and said to love your neighbor before yourself. He spoke a message of equality and unity among all mankind. As a Christian, you should follow his example by not judging who you sit with, but rather by being a friend and soundboard to them. He hung out with people who were criminals. If we met Peter before he met Jesus, he would stab you and take your gold.

    Finally, persecuting a group or groups of people is not Christ-like. We are all entitled to our opinions, and Jesus's opinion is that of love against oppression. As a Christian, it should be obvious that we are not here to conquer others thoughts or beliefs on anything. You are here to be a backbone to your family and friends, to defend the meek, and to protect others against injustice.

    At least, that's what I learned in church.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    And in that same way, I love you, too. We're in this together, and we all need to treat each other well
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-04-2013 12:14 AM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Pappy53 and cdmjlt369 (you're the most active tonight, but this applies to others as well) -

    If what I'm saying is coming off as rude or attacking you, I apologize. I know my tone gets a little edgy and posts get wordy but that's what happens when I type fast. I hope I am making myself clear in that I do respect your rights to believe what you want and behave accordingly, but that I think there are many perspectives that should also be defended. Specifically about religion, and it's interactions, such as they are, with science.... these are something I have spent a lot of time researching and thinking about. I may not share your exact beliefs and my statements are attempting to convey, "there is much more to this story". Similar to reading any story as a child, and then revisiting it as an adult.. you get more out of it and less out of it, if you know what I mean.

    Anyways, I wish that none take offense at what I'm saying, but if you do, please let me know that it's bothering you and I can either try to bridge the context gap, or if I'm wrong I'll flat out apologize. Either way, it's completely inappropriate for you to be left feeling like we don't value your opinions and your beliefs. We do. The diversity is cherished. There is a LOT of common ground to be had between our various belief systems and, as I intimated to another member a few days ago, I really like to approach things from a "help me understand" perspective.

    If our goal is to reach a common understanding and/or generate solutions, these debates can be terrific and energizing. If all we're doing is throwing are arguments over a fence at each other, there is really no point other than to create labels and potentially hurt people's feelings.
    AngelArs, msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-04-2013 12:19 AM
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