06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. Farish's Avatar
    Pappy53 and cdmjlt369 (you're the most active tonight, but this applies to others as well) -

    If what I'm saying is coming off as rude or attacking you, I apologize. I know my tone gets a little edgy and posts get wordy but that's what happens when I type fast. I hope I am making myself clear in that I do respect your rights to believe what you want and behave accordingly, but that I think there are many perspectives that should also be defended. Specifically about religion, and it's interactions, such as they are, with science.... these are something I have spent a lot of time researching and thinking about. I may not share your exact beliefs and my statements are attempting to convey, "there is much more to this story". Similar to reading any story as a child, and then revisiting it as an adult.. you get more out of it and less out of it, if you know what I mean.

    Anyways, I wish that none take offense at what I'm saying, but if you do, please let me know that it's bothering you and I can either try to bridge the context gap, or if I'm wrong I'll flat out apologize. Either way, it's completely inappropriate for you to be left feeling like we don't value your opinions and your beliefs. We do. The diversity is cherished. There is a LOT of common ground to be had between our various belief systems and, as I intimated to another member a few days ago, I really like to approach things from a "help me understand" perspective.

    If our goal is to reach a common understanding and/or generate solutions, these debates can be terrific and energizing. If all we're doing is throwing are arguments over a fence at each other, there is really no point other than to create labels and potentially hurt people's feelings.
    07-04-2013 12:25 AM
  2. AngelArs's Avatar
    About these pro-life polls.

    Do they ever include or quantify people like me.
    I don't think they are allowed to screen people like that. It's just a random cross cut of the population.

    Personally I am pro life. In my mind or situation, abortion will never be an option unless my significant other is at risk. This is how I felt for years, but there is a second part of this coming.
    Pretty much the same thing here. I love children, wish I could have 100, LOL but I also feel that no one has the right to tell another person what to do with their own body. No one tells a man what to do with his body, and treating a woman differently is wrong. Guess you could say it's discriminatory. Which brings us right back on topic
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-04-2013 12:33 AM
  3. Aquila's Avatar

    LoL! If you like.
    Farish likes this.
    07-04-2013 12:37 AM
  4. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    No offense taken. I feel this thread has been civil, especially considering the topic. And I hope I have not come off as rude to anyone as well. Im just happy I've been spending this much time in this section of the forums...means I'm not having issues with my phone.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-04-2013 12:45 AM
  5. gollum18's Avatar
    Honestly, it seems like the only people who don't know what's in the bible are the people quoting it. Other than badbrad I haven't seen a single person make a well reasoned biblical argument or point that wasn't just regurgitation. He's capable of defending his position, while others don't even seem to understand the implications of the words they're spouting.

    Have you read it? Be honest. Have you gone cover to cover analyzing it? Read books about it? Just those that defend it's positions, or those against it? I'm not accusing you of anything, but it is something I have studied fairly in depth and I don't see that mirrored by most in this thread.
    I can honestly tell you my brother translated the bible letter per letter into binary format by hand. I've seen it and watched him burn it when he was finished. But I'll save him for another time.

    I would consider him an expert on the bible since overall it took him about 4 years to finish working almost non stop.

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-04-2013 12:52 AM
  6. badbrad17's Avatar
    Well first please learn what the word trolling means before you start throwing it around, and second, prove that an omnipotent, omniscient being would need to be told what to do by a human.
    The act of prayer in not about telling God what to do. It is about communicating with God. The Bible says God is our Father and we are his Children. So if this is true then it is not hard to understand that prayer is part of a relationship. You ask your parents for things, you thank your parents, and you share your feelings with your parents. Sometimes when you ask for things you don't always get what you want, but God always listens and also appreciates our communication with him.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Aquila likes this.
    07-04-2013 01:09 AM
  7. badbrad17's Avatar
    I made an account just to say this:

    Abomination doesn't mean what you think it means. When translating from another language, you lose some meaning, but many scholars are certain it meant 'uncommon' in a sense that the chosen people (Israelites) would not do this, but they wouldn't persecute others for doing so (like many Greeks did).

    Secondly, Jesus walked around and said to love your neighbor before yourself. He spoke a message of equality and unity among all mankind. As a Christian, you should follow his example by not judging who you sit with, but rather by being a friend and soundboard to them. He hung out with people who were criminals. If we met Peter before he met Jesus, he would stab you and take your gold.

    Finally, persecuting a group or groups of people is not Christ-like. We are all entitled to our opinions, and Jesus's opinion is that of love against oppression. As a Christian, it should be obvious that we are not here to conquer others thoughts or beliefs on anything. You are here to be a backbone to your family and friends, to defend the meek, and to protect others against injustice.

    At least, that's what I learned in church.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Great post. Thanks for joining in.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Aquila likes this.
    07-04-2013 01:13 AM
  8. Aquila's Avatar
    The act of prayer in not about telling God what to do. It is about communicating with God. The Bible says God is our Father and we are his Children. So if this is true then it is not hard to understand that prayer is part of a relationship. You ask your parents for things, you thank your parents, and you share your feelings with your parents. Sometimes when you ask for things you don't always get what you want, but God always listens and also appreciates our communication with him.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    So interesting question.... a non-christian/hebrew/muslim who is a good person in their actions and prays or meditates but calls their interpretation of God something else... anything else. I know there are varying stances on whether or not it counts for truth, etc and judgement... but are those prayers, in your estimation, heard and/or answered?

    I'm thinking of the ancient religions that more or less believed in showing homage to various entities, but believed that you are judged based on your actions relative to respecting the universe - or are not judged at all, but are balanced, such as via Karma, etc. Would those people, projecting their thoughts into the universe without God's specific mailing address (according to those three), still find their messages received?
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-04-2013 01:15 AM
  9. badbrad17's Avatar
    Pappy53 and cdmjlt369 (you're the most active tonight, but this applies to others as well) -

    If what I'm saying is coming off as rude or attacking you, I apologize. I know my tone gets a little edgy and posts get wordy but that's what happens when I type fast. I hope I am making myself clear in that I do respect your rights to believe what you want and behave accordingly, but that I think there are many perspectives that should also be defended. Specifically about religion, and it's interactions, such as they are, with science.... these are something I have spent a lot of time researching and thinking about. I may not share your exact beliefs and my statements are attempting to convey, "there is much more to this story". Similar to reading any story as a child, and then revisiting it as an adult.. you get more out of it and less out of it, if you know what I mean.

    Anyways, I wish that none take offense at what I'm saying, but if you do, please let me know that it's bothering you and I can either try to bridge the context gap, or if I'm wrong I'll flat out apologize. Either way, it's completely inappropriate for you to be left feeling like we don't value your opinions and your beliefs. We do. The diversity is cherished. There is a LOT of common ground to be had between our various belief systems and, as I intimated to another member a few days ago, I really like to approach things from a "help me understand" perspective.

    If our goal is to reach a common understanding and/or generate solutions, these debates can be terrific and energizing. If all we're doing is throwing are arguments over a fence at each other, there is really no point other than to create labels and potentially hurt people's feelings.
    You've always been my favorite. :thumbup:

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-04-2013 01:16 AM
  10. badbrad17's Avatar
    If some Christians cared as much about the living as they do about the unborn, the world would be a very different place.
    Wow, this was a very nasty comment that I take offense to. Not only because it was a generalization but because it is untrue. Christian organizations make up for more outreach programs than all others combined. You know people that work to provide clean drinking water. They help orphans, the homeless, the poor and people who are sick with Aids.

    You may have heard of some of them. The Salvation Army, Union Gospel Mission, World Vision, the African Children's choir etc. I know many people who have worked for these organizations and many others have have given their time, money and skills to help people who are very much alive. /rant

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-04-2013 01:25 AM
  11. AngelArs's Avatar
    The act of prayer in not about telling God what to do.
    I would hope not.

    It is about communicating with God.
    That's based on assumption.

    The Bible says God is our Father and we are his Children.
    The bible says many things. Many are contractions. IMO it makes no sense to believe in anything that contradicts itself. You are free to believe whatever you wish, but please just don't state it as fact.
    07-04-2013 01:25 AM
  12. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Someone has to care about the unborn. But luckily, the country is now a larger percentage of pro-life than pro-choice. And a few states are trying to pretty much shut down abortion. I just don't understand how mothers can murder their children.
    Spoken like a male with out a uterus. Smh.

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    07-04-2013 01:26 AM
  13. JHBThree's Avatar
    Wow, this was a very nasty comment that I take offense to. Not only because it was a generalization but because it is untrue. Christian organizations make up for more outreach programs than all others combined. You know people that work to provide clean drinking water. They help orphans, the homeless, the poor and people who are sick with Aids.

    You may have heard of some of them. The Salvation Army, Union Gospel Mission, World Vision, the African Children's choir etc. I know many people who have worked for these organizations and many others have have given their time, money and skills to help people who are very much alive. /rant

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Read again. There's a qualifying word in the post you quoted that is incredibly important.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    07-04-2013 01:29 AM
  14. return_0's Avatar
    Wow, this was a very nasty comment that I take offense to. Not only because it was a generalization but because it is untrue. Christian organizations make up for more outreach programs than all others combined. You know people that work to provide clean drinking water. They help orphans, the homeless, the poor and people who are sick with Aids.

    You may have heard of some of them. The Salvation Army, Union Gospel Mission, World Vision, the African Children's choir etc. I know many people who have worked for these organizations and many others have have given their time, money and skills to help people who are very much alive. /rant

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Hence the word "some".

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    07-04-2013 01:30 AM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    Wow, this was a very nasty comment that I take offense to. Not only because it was a generalization but because it is untrue. Christian organizations make up for more outreach programs than all others combined. You know people that work to provide clean drinking water. They help orphans, the homeless, the poor and people who are sick with Aids.

    You may have heard of some of them. The Salvation Army, Union Gospel Mission, World Vision, the African Children's choir etc. I know many people who have worked for these organizations and many others have have given their time, money and skills to help people who are very much alive. /rant

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    I get where your coming from a little... but I'd like to think that those people are doing things because they're good people... and that, if they'd never heard of sinners, that they'd still attempt to help their fellow humans. I understand that many would not, but that makes me sad and is not an argument in favor of their indoctrination... because it shows them to be dishonest. To be sure, some religious organizations do some immensely great things, but to suggest they would not if they organized under any other principle makes them sound shallow... and the cost is very great for the benefit reaped.
    07-04-2013 01:35 AM
  16. ekoee's Avatar
    Lol politics and theology are deep rooted in a person's psyche, it takes experiences and time to change them. I will say this:

    As a Roman Catholic I am sorry for what people who define themselves as Christian have done to people we don't even know. I assure you it's not Christian-like.

    As for the Bible, I support it for its moral standard, but we have to remember it was written by men, who are imperfect. Most of it (if not all of it) was passed down orally throughout the generations. You can't even hear a story about the party last night without someone making it bigger than it actually was. And I bet that fish you caught on that trip that one time gets bigger everything you tell the story.

    Fact of the matter is, people from my religion have hurt a lot of people, and it's gonna take a lot more than one repeal to move towards a world that I believe Jesus would be proud of.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Aquila and msndrstood like this.
    07-04-2013 01:45 AM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    Lol politics and theology are deep rooted in a person's psyche, it takes experiences and time to change them. I will say this:

    As a Roman Catholic I am sorry for what people who define themselves as Christian have done to people we don't even know. I assure you it's not Christian-like.

    As for the Bible, I support it for its moral standard, but we have to remember it was written by men, who are imperfect. Most of it (if not all of it) was passed down orally throughout the generations. You can't even hear a story about the party last night without someone making it bigger than it actually was. And I bet that fish you caught on that trip that one time gets bigger everything you tell the story.

    Fact of the matter is, people from my religion have hurt a lot of people, and it's gonna take a lot more than one repeal to move towards a world that I believe Jesus would be proud of.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    A fairly wise sentiment, however I absolutely do not want to get in the habit of blaming Christians for religious atrocities, not the least of which is scaring children into "proper behavior" (read, obedience and recitation of rhetoric and an aversion to thinking freely), with threat of eternal punishment by some monster of a deity that loves them yet seeks every opportunity to punish them for sins committed eons before their birth. This is the impact of religion in general. Again, separating faith (belief and philosophy) and religion (political enslavement), its necessary to take a step back and seriously examine the trade-off we're making and what morality and the exaltation of our spiritual consciousness actually means.
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-04-2013 01:56 AM
  18. badbrad17's Avatar
    I get where your coming from a little... but I'd like to think that those people are doing things because they're good people... and that, if they'd never heard of sinners, that they'd still attempt to help their fellow humans. I understand that many would not, but that makes me sad and is not an argument in favor of their indoctrination... because it shows them to be dishonest. To be sure, some religious organizations do some immensely great things, but to suggest they would not if they organized under any other principle makes them sound shallow... and the cost is very great for the benefit reaped.
    Well from my own personal experience I was pretty self centered for a good part of my life. I wasn't mean or thoughtless, but it never really occurred to me to look at helping someone in a truly selfless way until I became a Christian. I didn't have any family religious upbringing or indoctrination. I was just going along in life. It will be hard for many people to understand my story as it is a long one. But I believe that when people become true Christians they actually desire to help people. It doesn't mean there aren't non believers that also help people, but there was something that changed me. It is just something that grows in you.

    Now don't get me wrong. I am no missionary. And some people who call themselves Christians are liars who cheat and steal. But the true people who have found God are changed for the good and this in the end benefits other people which is good no matter how you look at it.

    There is a new organization that started in my city a few years ago called Run for Water. It was started by a friend of mine. It's basically a walk, run, marathon event that raises money to build clean water systems in Africa. I think they just had their 6th year and raised over $350,000 this year alone. It was pretty incredible how this thing has taken off. It's not about preaching at people, it's about helping people.

    If you want to see what they are doing check out this incredible video that was done for them. It was filmed in Africa. http://archetypescreative.com/work/runforwater.html

    Or the website http://abbotsford.runforwater.ca



    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Aquila and primevyl like this.
    07-04-2013 02:05 AM
  19. badbrad17's Avatar
    Lol politics and theology are deep rooted in a person's psyche, it takes experiences and time to change them. I will say this:

    As a Roman Catholic I am sorry for what people who define themselves as Christian have done to people we don't even know. I assure you it's not Christian-like.

    As for the Bible, I support it for its moral standard, but we have to remember it was written by men, who are imperfect. Most of it (if not all of it) was passed down orally throughout the generations. You can't even hear a story about the party last night without someone making it bigger than it actually was. And I bet that fish you caught on that trip that one time gets bigger everything you tell the story.

    Fact of the matter is, people from my religion have hurt a lot of people, and it's gonna take a lot more than one repeal to move towards a world that I believe Jesus would be proud of.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    I have heard a lot of people comment negatively on how the bible was stories that were told and must have changed etc. But this is actually not true. The old testament is the most perfectly preserved historical document in the world. And this is not an opinion by religious groups, it is a fact that is agreed to by historians in major universities around the world. The reason it has been preserved is not only because the scribes were meticulous in writing the scriptures down but also because the Jewish people were passionate about memorization. People memorized the text word for word. Even young children.

    You can choose to believe or disregard what is written but the actual text has remained intact. The New Testament is not as well preserved, but still very well documented. And after discoveries like the dead sea scrolls there was added validation to many of the books and their reliability.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Aquila likes this.
    07-04-2013 02:16 AM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    Well from my own personal experience I was pretty self centered for a good part of my life. I wasn't mean or thoughtless, but it never really occurred to me to look at helping someone in a truly selfless way until I became a Christian. I didn't have any family upbringing or indoctrination. I was just going along in life. It will be hard for many people to understand my story as it is a long one. But I believe that when people become true Christians they actually desire to help people. It doesn't mean there aren't non believers that also help people, but there was something that changed me. It is just something that grows in you.

    Now don't get me wrong. I am no missionary. And some people who call themselves Christians are liars who cheat and steal. But the true people who have found God are changed for the good and this in the end benefits other people which is good no matter how you look at it.

    There is a new organization that started in my city a few years ago called Run for Water. It was started by a friend of mine. It's basically a walk, run, marathon event that raises money to build clean water systems in Africa. I think they just had their 6th year and raised over $350,000 this year alone. It was pretty incredible how this thing has taken off. It's not about preaching at people, it's about helping people.

    If you want to see what they are doing check out this incredible video that was done for them. It was filmed in Africa. Archetypes Creative - Run For Water

    Or the website Run for Water | Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K Run, 5K Fun Run



    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Of course I don't want to demean or trivialize your experiences. Just as with many of our political discussions, you understand that anecdotal evidence, even when powerful, doesn't necessarily define the whole of reality. I by no means want to imply that people who believe in God or attend churches etc are evil or are generalized in any weird such way. What I have a problem with is that religion as a whole, tends to diminish humanity by lowering our drive towards knowledge and tolerance.

    Some of the best people in the world have had faith, and so have some of the worst. I would consider that the proportion of good to bad people is roughly equal between believers and non believers... but non believers who do good are more likely, in my opinion, to be doing it for altruistic reasons rather than for trade... "I'm doing this because it's what God would want" or the converse are both very dubious logical grounds to stand on. It's great if you share the opinion of what God would want with that person... but as is oft pointed out, what God wants tends to coincide precisely with what the projector of God's wishes would want and/or the agenda of the person in control of the Word to that person's ears.

    I suppose I think people are people and don't necessarily need to be shepherded, but if they are to be... perhaps it should be towards expansion of their consciousness about the universe we actually live in and how they can help people here and in the future. With that attitude, belief in God or not, you're sure to be trying to do the right thing. Believing like some do, that you can be the worst ***** imaginable and simply believe and ask for forgiveness and you're magically better off than one who tries to be a good person, isn't fully successful, but never wastes time feeling sorry and moves on to their next good work... you can see how this leads to a dangerous paradigm of moral superiority and of abandonment of responsibility in the material world.
    07-04-2013 02:17 AM
  21. AngelArs's Avatar
    Wow, this was a very nasty comment that I take offense to. Not only because it was a generalization but because it is untrue.
    Why would the truth offend you? Actually they said nothing wrong, and it certainly wasn't untrue. MANY examples of this throughout history;

    Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.


    Don't forget The Crusades (1095-1291)


    Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone responsible for 10,220 human burnings.


    The witch hunts (1484-1750) several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.


    15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain.


    1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands.


    17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain.


    Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France).


    1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered.


    Columbus visits Hispaniola, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.


    When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time more than 60,000,000 natives were dead.


    On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War". The killers were New England Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.


    In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some 600 Indians were massacred.


    This is just the tip of the iceberg. Many more examples here.

    Think that all of that killing was just 'back then'? Think again. It happens still today. Of course no one is saying that every single christian is like that, but many were, and some still are. So when someone says that christians don't care about life, I think history has proven that many times over. Just say 'in.

    Christian organizations make up for more outreach programs than all others combined.
    You mean among religious groups right? Because they don't hold a candle to non-religous groups. For example; Warren Buffett (atheist} donated $40.785 billion to health, education, humanitarian causes. Bill & Melinda Gates (both atheists) donated $27.602 billion to global health and development, education. George Soros (atheist) donated $6.936 billion to open and democratic societies. Many more examples of this.

    msndrstood likes this.
    07-04-2013 02:18 AM
  22. AngelArs's Avatar
    Just as with many of our political discussions, you understand that anecdotal evidence, even when powerful, doesn't necessarily define the whole of reality.
    Yep, anecdotes is not the plural of evidence.
    07-04-2013 02:20 AM
  23. badbrad17's Avatar
    A fairly wise sentiment, however I absolutely do not want to get in the habit of blaming Christians for religious atrocities, not the least of which is scaring children into "proper behavior" (read, obedience and recitation of rhetoric and an aversion to thinking freely), with threat of eternal punishment by some monster of a deity that loves them yet seeks every opportunity to punish them for sins committed eons before their birth. This is the impact of religion in general. Again, separating faith (belief and philosophy) and religion (political enslavement), its necessary to take a step back and seriously examine the trade-off we're making and what morality and the exaltation of our spiritual consciousness actually means.
    I agree but the main issue is with people. If we actually read the Bible and look at what Jesus taught we would realize that most of traditional religion has very little to do with what Jesus tried to teach. It is actually closer to how the Pharasees acted. Legalistic fear is not part of what Jesus taught. He taught love, forgiveness and freedom. Yet for some reason we keep trying to formulate this religious jail and call it church. :banghead:

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-04-2013 02:24 AM
  24. badbrad17's Avatar
    Read again. There's a qualifying word in the post you quoted that is incredibly important.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    You conveniently use that as a way out of your comments. I stand by my comment as the number of people who call themselves true Christians are not anything like what you describe.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-04-2013 02:27 AM
  25. JHBThree's Avatar
    Why would the truth offend you? Actually they said nothing wrong, and it certainly wasn't untrue. MANY examples of this throughout history;

    Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.


    Don't forget The Crusades (1095-1291)


    Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone responsible for 10,220 human burnings.


    The witch hunts (1484-1750) several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.


    15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain.


    1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands.


    17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain.


    Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France).


    1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered.


    Columbus visits Hispaniola, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.


    When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time more than 60,000,000 natives were dead.


    On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War". The killers were New England Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.


    In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some 600 Indians were massacred.


    This is just the tip of the iceberg. Many more examples here.

    Think that all of that killing was just 'back then'? Think again. It happens still today. Of course no one is saying that every single christian is like that, but many were, and some still are. So when someone says that christians don't care about life, I think history has proven that many times over. Just say 'in.


    You mean among religious groups right? Because they don't hold a candle to non-religous groups. For example; Warren Buffett (atheist} donated $40.785 billion to health, education, humanitarian causes. Bill & Melinda Gates (both atheists) donated $27.602 billion to global health and development, education. George Soros (atheist) donated $6.936 billion to open and democratic societies. Many more examples of this.

    Hey now, that is going a bit overboard. The point I was making is that some of the loudest voices against abortion are also some of the loudest voices against programs that would make a difference in millions of people's lives. (Again, there is a key qualifying word in there that is very important to the point I'm making) I really don't want to get into the debate of religion and war.
    07-04-2013 02:27 AM
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