06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. badbrad17's Avatar
    Maybe the something they were missing was the type of love that is necessary for a marriage. Couples, gay or straight, can make a mistake and make that commitment before they're ready.

    Also, what gadget was saying is that he found it offensive that you believed that god not being in that marriage was the cause of its failure. The logical conclusion of that statement is that no gay marriage could succeed because there wasn't god in them.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    Well I didn't say that, but thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it if that is what he/she meant. I would apply the same logic to any marriage, so I should have been clearer.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 10:03 AM
  2. badbrad17's Avatar
    Talk about rubbish! Sure is a whole lot of assumption you're doing there. You don't even know me. You have absolutely no idea what I think about any other charity since I haven't discussed any. So why do you assume? And talk about a double standard, first you say that the Salvation Army doesn't discriminate, then you go on to make excuses and justification for discrimination by saying other groups do it too. Great reason. I will continue to call Salvation Army out on it's BS. And it's great that they do some good stuff, but so do a lot of other organizations only without all the BS. Or dragging religion into it. They just help people.



    Who said anything about getting married in a church? It's offensive to think religion was this missing component in someone else's relationship. Basically you are implying that they got divorced because they weren't religious enough. And implying that couples need religion and your interpretation of God in order to be successful. That's your opinion, but it does not make it a fact. There's plenty of couples that do just fine without religion dragged into it. And where is my double standard here? You like to throw around that term a lot it would seem, but you don't know what you are talking about.
    I won't push it as I think you are getting upset. But I was stating it as my opinion. That's why I said I "felt" or "think" something was missing. And again, regardless of whether you agree or not. What the Bible teaches about marriage is good for all of us.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 10:07 AM
  3. AngelArs's Avatar
    How are you going to react when men or women want to take more than one spouse?
    The same way as when straight couples want to take more than one spouse. Next...

    I certainly don't understand is how anyone can state that who they love is beyond their control....
    That's very disingenuous. This isn't about love. It's about discrimination.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-06-2013 11:07 AM
  4. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I've pretty much stayed away from commenting on this thread after their first couple of pages, however I would like to ask a question of the supporters of gay marriage, and the fall of prop 8.

    How are you going to react when men or women want to take more than one spouse? There are other scenario's that I find just as disgusting that could possibly come out from this as well.....

    Another thing, I certainly don't understand is how anyone can state that who they love is beyond their control....

    I choose to love, honor and respect my wife everyday. We in general can also choose to stop loving our significant others after we or they have had an affair, or dishonored our relationship (violated the vows of marriage) in one way or another.
    I couldn't stop loving my wife if I tried. After 21 years, I still have the same burning passion for her I had when we first met, and not just in a physical way. She feels like everything to me.
    07-06-2013 11:08 AM
  5. msndrstood's Avatar
    My point is that these straight couples also need God in their marriage. Do the survey on Christian marriage and you will see a much higher success rate. Not that there isn't divorce too, but having strong committed goals based on Biblical teaching helps lots of people to overcome the trials of life and difficulties in marriage.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Nope. Four decades plus and religion, the Bible etc are not and have never been a part in our marriage. We got married in front of a JoP, just renewed our vows last year and we made sure there was no religious stuff involved.

    Marriage, gay or straight, does not need religion in order to be a happy long lasting relationship. The important people in a marriage are the couple and their commitment to each other, not a commitment to God. We have never cheated, nor been with any other person in our entire, 42 years together. God had no part in that, just two people who love each other deeply and completely.

    For those who need/want religion in their lives, the option is there. Pick your religion and God of choice, go forth and just be happy.


    Sent via Note II
    07-06-2013 11:12 AM
  6. AngelArs's Avatar
    Anything the Bible says about marriage is helpful.
    You mean like in DT 22:28-29 where it states that a virgin who is raped must marry the person who raped her. Yeah, real helpful.
    07-06-2013 11:29 AM
  7. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Filicide is the murder of a son or daughter, so you are correct on that part. Abortion is filicide.
    Filicide - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Also, if it is not a child, why is it that if a pregnant woman is killed that the killer is charged with double murder?
    How do you kill something that hasn't been born yet? I'm genuinely curious.
    07-06-2013 11:42 AM
  8. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I've pretty much stayed away from commenting on this thread after their first couple of pages, however I would like to ask a question of the supporters of gay marriage, and the fall of prop 8.

    How are you going to react when men or women want to take more than one spouse? There are other scenario's that I find just as disgusting that could possibly come out from this as well.....
    Why does one thing always lead to other things in those people's minds who are against gay marriages? If you believe in a slippery slope, then that slope works in both directions and started with heterosexual couples marrying...cause someday the gays would want it! Ironically, we've already had polygamous marriages in this country, and even more ironically, through a religion.

    Now, as to how am I going to react? The same way I react at both straight and gay people's marriages....in other words, no reaction at all. Other people's relationships do not affect my life. Why do they affect yours so much?

    Now, about those other scenarios....if you are going to go down that same well traveled things-with-animals road too, let me stop you right now. Let me know when an animal can read a marriage license and understand contactral law and then we can discuss that potential at that time. Until that day, no potential.

    ]Another thing, I certainly don't understand is how anyone can state that who they love is beyond their control....

    I choose to love, honor and respect my wife everyday. We in general can also choose to stop loving our significant others after we or they have had an affair, or dishonored our relationship (violated the vows of marriage) in one way or another.
    You do not choose the feelings you have for you wife. You might choose what to do about them, but the underlying feelings? No. Humans don't choose that. You don't leave your house one day and say...."hey, I am going to go out there and fall in love with someone today" and then set your eyes on the first woman you see and "choose" to love her simply because she has opposite body parts. Conversely if your wife were to cheat on you, you'd be hurt (another feeling you didn't choose) and your feelings might change for her. On the other hand, the love might still be there and you might work your problems out. Either way, you didn't choose how you feel about the situation, only what you'll do about it.
    nolittdroid, msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-06-2013 11:44 AM
  9. nolittdroid's Avatar
    You mean like in DT 22:28-29 where it states that a virgin who is raped must marry the person who raped her. Yeah, real helpful.
    Hey the law says that the ****** can sue for paternity rights and visitation so it must all be part of gods plan?
    07-06-2013 11:44 AM
  10. AngelArs's Avatar
    How do you kill something that hasn't been born yet? I'm genuinely curious.
    Depends on the definition used. Kill can also mean 'put an end to, or cause failure of". Haven't you ever heard a mechanic say 'kill the engine'? Just depends how the word is used
    07-06-2013 11:50 AM
  11. gollum18's Avatar
    I feel like this thread is turning into this..

    No insults intended. The thread just needed some comic relief.

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    Aquila, msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-06-2013 11:57 AM
  12. GadgetGator's Avatar
    My point is that these straight couples also need God in their marriage.
    Sent from my Nexus 4
    No, they don't. That's the whole offensive part. You are applying your way of thinking and what works for you to all couples. This is what many in the Christian religion do for some reason...push their views onto others and insist that their way is the only way and tell others how they should live. The same as if you said that someone's marriage wasn't good enough or complete enough unless they had kids. Or lived in a certain part of town. Or had a certain income. It's such an arrogant thing to do. And it's all offensive. The couple only needs what works for them.

    You mean like in DT 22:28-29 where it states that a virgin who is raped must marry the person who raped her. Yeah, real helpful.
    And isn't their a verse in there about marrying your brother-in-law should your husband die? That doesn't sound too helpful either.
    msndrstood and return_0 like this.
    07-06-2013 12:11 PM
  13. GadgetGator's Avatar
    This is a touchy subject. Especially for an organization that is deeply rooted in Christian belief. They want people who work for them to share in the same moral beliefs that they founded their organization on. This is more than just views on sexual preferences. To say that they should hire people that don't share in this same view could undermine the goals and purpose of the entire organization. I'm not even sure where I land on this topic as it is a tough one, but I do know that I have never met a person who is gay that believes in the Bible. There are lots of people who claim to, but I've never met one in person or online. For many this is a conflicted situation which makes it very difficult to just be neutral. It's like hiring someone to work in your church that doesn't believe in the philosophy of that church. Their impact would be counter productive in the goals of the organization.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    If you don't know any gay people who believe in the Bible, then maybe reach out to a local gay-friendly church. There are lots of gay clergy out there and perhaps their insight would be helpful on a variety of issues.
    07-06-2013 12:23 PM
  14. JHBThree's Avatar
    I've pretty much stayed away from commenting on this thread after their first couple of pages, however I would like to ask a question of the supporters of gay marriage, and the fall of prop 8.

    How are you going to react when men or women want to take more than one spouse? There are other scenario's that I find just as disgusting that could possibly come out from this as well.....

    Another thing, I certainly don't understand is how anyone can state that who they love is beyond their control....

    I choose to love, honor and respect my wife everyday. We in general can also choose to stop loving our significant others after we or they have had an affair, or dishonored our relationship (violated the vows of marriage) in one way or another.
    Slippery slope fallacy.

    Try again.

    Oh, and you might want to check your history. There have been polygamous marriages in western civilization for as long as there have been monogamous ones.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 12:32 PM
  15. JHBThree's Avatar
    This is a touchy subject. Especially for an organization that is deeply rooted in Christian belief. They want people who work for them to share in the same moral beliefs that they founded their organization on. This is more than just views on sexual preferences. To say that they should hire people that don't share in this same view could undermine the goals and purpose of the entire organization. I'm not even sure where I land on this topic as it is a tough one, but I do know that I have never met a person who is gay that believes in the Bible. There are lots of people who claim to, but I've never met one in person or online. For many this is a conflicted situation which makes it very difficult to just be neutral. It's like hiring someone to work in your church that doesn't believe in the philosophy of that church. Their impact would be counter productive in the goals of the organization.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    The goals of the organization are to help people. They should be hiring the best and most qualified people, regardless of their sexual orientation.

    Me personally? I would never work for an organization rooted in hate. I have turned down at least one teaching job because of it.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    Aquila likes this.
    07-06-2013 12:34 PM
  16. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Depends on the definition used. Kill can also mean 'put an end to, or cause failure of". Haven't you ever heard a mechanic say 'kill the engine'? Just depends how the word is used
    Good point actually. I just find it amusing that the people who will never find themselves in such a situation are so vehemently opposed to it. The double murder comment he made irks me as well. It doesn't take common sense to assume that if a pregnant woman is killed the state would seek a double murder charge because they're assuming she's going to carry to term.
    07-06-2013 12:36 PM
  17. JHBThree's Avatar
    If you don't know any gay people who believe in the Bible, then maybe reach out to a local gay-friendly church. There are lots of gay clergy out there and perhaps their insight would be helpful on a variety of issues.
    My parents attend an Episcopalian church with a huge gay population. The church's 'slogan' is "Everyone is welcome, always". The pastor is also gay, and lives with her wife in the apartment the church provides.

    Also, my parents left the catholic church specifically because of how they were treating gays. They couldn't reconcile the hate with how the church teaches so much about loving your neighbor, etc.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    GadgetGator and Aquila like this.
    07-06-2013 12:40 PM
  18. nolittdroid's Avatar
    They're allowed to be selective. Lots of charities are selective. They do not omit people for being gay. Sheesh. What a load of rubbish. The Salvation Army has dedicated itself to helping people and we should be thankful for what they do. There are many charities that just help black people and many other exclusive groups. This is fine. Should I run around calling the United Negro College fund bigots for not supporting white people? You have a double standard.

    So now it's offensive to believe that God helps marriage? Is it offensive to get married in a church too? Man you have a double standard. I've been married for 26 years and can tell you that God has certainly helped my marriage. I am entitled to my opinion about my family. Their marriage lasted 6 months. I think something was missing. God was certainly part of it.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    My parents were married in town court nearly 27 years ago. Today this day, only a few of my friends' parents remain together, and only one of them were married in a church. Her father is a pastor. The other marriage were done about 10 years in. God and the church are not necessary to build a great marriage, but the people in the marriage must be willing to work for it.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 12:41 PM
  19. AngelArs's Avatar
    And isn't their a verse in there about marrying your brother-in-law should your husband die? That doesn't sound too helpful either.
    It also states that in DT 21:10-13 that the Israelites were allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after raping them the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go. First of all "captive wives" is just code for sex slave. Plus the woman is forced to shave her head while all of this is happening to her. Not sure what kind of person would consider these things "helpful"...
    07-06-2013 12:45 PM
  20. AngelArs's Avatar
    God and the church are not necessary to build a great marriage, but the people in the marriage must be willing to work for it.
    Yep, I think honest friendship with your partner is much more important than god or a church.
    07-06-2013 12:52 PM
  21. pappy53's Avatar
    You mean like in DT 22:28-29 where it states that a virgin who is raped must marry the person who raped her. Yeah, real helpful.
    Man-made laws, not God's.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It also states that in DT 21:10-13 that the Israelites were allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after raping them the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go. First of all "captive wives" is just code for sex slave. Plus the woman is forced to shave her head while all of this is happening to her. Not sure what kind of person would consider these things "helpful"...
    Man-made laws, not God's.
    07-06-2013 02:15 PM
  22. JHBThree's Avatar
    Man-made laws, not God's.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Man-made laws, not God's.
    That seems to be the response of some Christians when the silliness of some parts of the bible are brought to light. No, it couldn't POSSIBLY be that those parts show it to be flawed...

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    07-06-2013 02:18 PM
  23. pappy53's Avatar
    Good point actually. I just find it amusing that the people who will never find themselves in such a situation are so vehemently opposed to it. The double murder comment he made irks me as well. It doesn't take common sense to assume that if a pregnant woman is killed the state would seek a double murder charge because they're assuming she's going to carry to term.
    So if a woman aborts at 20 weeks, she should be charged with murder, as it is assumed that she is carrying full-term?
    07-06-2013 02:20 PM
  24. pappy53's Avatar
    That seems to be the response of some Christians when the silliness of some parts of the bible are brought to light. No, it couldn't POSSIBLY be that those parts show it to be flawed...

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    The Bible, God's word, isn't flawed. It's the humans that are flawed.
    They made those laws, not Him.
    07-06-2013 02:26 PM
  25. AngelArs's Avatar
    Man-made laws, not God's.
    Oh, you mean like how religion is man-made? And please do explain to everyone how you are able to read gods mind?
    msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-06-2013 02:32 PM
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