06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Hey guys... guess what.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/sho...d.php?t=294311

    Can we get back on topic now?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    The topic is bigotry and hatred by folks who are told to love all others by their deity. Looks to me like all of this is on topic.

    You all want a politics section. Be prepared for discussion you're not happy with.

    Wait until I get bored and start making threads of my own. I have a lot of ideas that are bound to offend everyone
    07-06-2013 09:12 PM
  2. badbrad17's Avatar
    OK, I understand that interpretation. But the question of the old laws (whether they be of man or god) still standing is very important. Jesus says they still stand, with what we're told is a direct quote.

    If this, like all things attributed to Jesus (according to those who believe the bible is a holy document, and not a written pseudo-history) is true, then anyone who eats shrimp is an abomination in the eyes of god, much like a practicing homosexual.

    Leviticus is very clear on this matter.
    Jesus was very clear to say that these laws still stand.
    Why is one of these laws (read: commandments) given higher precedence than another?
    The food thing was also changed when God told Peter to kill and eat. Legalistic law was something God clearly stated that he hated. He also hated sacrifice. Jesus provided the perfect attonment for sin and full filled the requirement of the law. The Holy spirit was provided as a helper in order for us to be empowered by the power of God in our time of need.

    Edit: but I will add that if we choose to reject the gift that God has provided we will be judged according to the law.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 09:12 PM
  3. badbrad17's Avatar
    Actually he supposedly created light, but somehow didn't create the sun until the 4th day. Weird.

    Not for me. I don't form a viewpoint until I study both sides of the facts. Then I base my viewpoint of those facts. I am ALWAYS open-minded. I welcome you to try present your side of the facts so they can be weighed.
    1 John 1:5 - This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 09:18 PM
  4. AngelArs's Avatar
    I say that it was based on the old testament and Jesus changed that and you quote the old testament.
    So god didn't write the old testiment? If not who did?
    07-06-2013 09:19 PM
  5. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    The food thing was also changed when God told Peter to kill and eat. Legalistic law was something God clearly stated that he hated. He also hated sacrifice. Jesus provided the perfect attonment for sin and full filled the requirement of the law. The Holy spirit was provided as a helper in order for us to be empowered by the power of God in our time of need.

    Edit: but I will add that if we choose to reject the gift that God has provided we will be judged according to the law.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    No, what the voice said to Peter was:
    "Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."

    Nowhere is anything from "the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water" which will clearly label you an abomination to god if you eat, mentioned.

    If you want to use words as if they are direct commandments from god, you will have to pay attention to what was actually said.
    07-06-2013 09:20 PM
  6. AngelArs's Avatar
    1 John 1:5 - This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
    So god is light? ... and on the first day god created light, so how did god create himself before he created himself? Kind of painted yourself into the corner there huh?

    GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 09:27 PM
  7. JHBThree's Avatar
    So god is light? ... and on the first day god created light, so how did god create himself before he created himself? Kind of painted yourself into the corner there huh?

    GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
    CONTRADICTION! (sorry. Couldn't help myself)

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    07-06-2013 09:33 PM
  8. badbrad17's Avatar
    So god didn't write the old testiment? If not who did?
    The laws were changed after Jesus death. You can read my prior posts.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 09:44 PM
  9. badbrad17's Avatar
    So god is light? ... and on the first day god created light, so how did god create himself before he created himself? Kind of painted yourself into the corner there huh?

    GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
    He actually said let there "BE" Light. There is a difference. I can't remember the exact translation from the Hebrew off hand but I means something like he willed it upon the earth.

    You can Google it.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 09:47 PM
  10. AngelArs's Avatar
    The laws were changed after Jesus death.
    Laws? Gods laws? That would mean that he made a mistake....
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 09:52 PM
  11. AngelArs's Avatar
    I can't remember the exact translation from the Hebrew
    Translation? By whom, Man?
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 09:54 PM
  12. primevyl's Avatar
    Translation? By whom, Man?
    Hey buddy, did God stand you up on a date?
    Did a Christian take your cab in a thunderstorm?

    Chill out. I have read a lot of these posts and you are clearly upset about something, but I doubt the folks here are the perpetrators.



    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-06-2013 10:24 PM
  13. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Laws? Gods laws? That would mean that he made a mistake....
    According to the Bible, the laws weren't changed because he "made a mistake." The laws were changed because times had changed. After the sacrifice of his son as the "end all to sacrifices," sacrifices were no longer required on Sabbaths, and with that, much changed.

    Jennifer Stough
    Forums Moderator
    Droid DNA
    S-off, boot loader unlocked
    illusion CM10.1
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-06-2013 10:34 PM
  14. AngelArs's Avatar
    According to the Bible, the laws weren't changed because he "made a mistake." The laws were changed because times had changed.
    But that would prove that god is not all knowing, because if he were all knowing then nothing would have needed to be changed.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 11:00 PM
  15. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    But that would prove that god is not all knowing, because if he were all knowing then nothing would have needed to be changed.
    No one said it changed because it /had to/. He /chose/ to sacrifice his son, and /chose/ to change the game. While god would have the capability to toil us all around to live a perfect life and be perfect servants, he gave us the choice in his compassion. With that free choice came the worsening of times. Jesus Christ was a symbol of that compassion, and with his sacrifice came the new "rules" per say. His blood was the "eternal" blood that would pay for our sins.

    At least, that's what I've been taught. Its not my belief.

    Jennifer Stough
    Forums Moderator
    Droid DNA
    S-off, boot loader unlocked
    illusion CM10.1
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-06-2013 11:07 PM
  16. badbrad17's Avatar
    No, what the voice said to Peter was:
    "Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."

    Nowhere is anything from "the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water" which will clearly label you an abomination to god if you eat, mentioned.

    If you want to use words as if they are direct commandments from god, you will have to pay attention to what was actually said.
    shrimp are creepy things. But I digress back to what Jesus said. All laws are summed up by this... there are many more verses about this. We are not slaves to bondage anymore.

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-06-2013 11:12 PM
  17. AngelArs's Avatar
    While god would have the capability to toil us all around to live a perfect life and be perfect servants, he gave us the choice in his compassion.
    I understand what youre saying Jennifer, and I get all of that. What doesnt sound kosher is that a omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient being would not act that way. To me it is much more likely that humans made up these claims and then projected them on god. Someone cant give someone else free choice and then punish them for it afterward. I mean they could, but that wouldnt say very much for the person who supposedly gave them the choice now would it? I just buried both of my parents 6 months apart from each other and the way that they died I cant attribute to a god. There is nothing elevated or honorable about a god who would place someone in suffering or pain for sport. Where's gods compassion there?

    What kind of god would have a human needlessly suffer just to prove something? I also saw my pet needlessly suffer just before he died. Did he ever have a choice in any religion? There is a condition called fetal hydrocephalus where a developing babies brain fills up with fluid around the developing skull. The excessive pressure pushes against the developing skull and is extremely painful. What kind of a god would allow such a thing to happen to an innocent developing baby?

    And what about disease? Did god just create disease to watch his loyal followers suffer? Because just as many christians die of horrendous diseases as non-christians. And as far as free will goes, no child being indoctrinated into a religion has no free will. I dont know if theres a god or not but if there is then hes incredibly cruel. There is nothing elevated or honorable about a god that would cause such needless suffering in the world, so Id rather attribute all of the terrible things in the world to other fundamental forces in the universe.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-07-2013 01:19 AM
  18. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I understand what youre saying Jennifer, and I get all of that. What doesnt sound kosher is that a omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient being would not act that way. To me it is much more likely that humans made up these claims and then projected them on god. Someone cant give someone else free choice and then punish them for it afterward. I mean they could, but that wouldnt say very much for the person who supposedly gave them the choice now would it? I just buried both of my parents 6 months apart from each other and the way that they died I cant attribute to a god. There is nothing elevated or honorable about a god who would place someone in suffering or pain for sport. Where's gods compassion there?

    What kind of god would have a human needlessly suffer just to prove something? I also saw my pet needlessly suffer just before he died. Did he ever have a choice in any religion? There is a condition called fetal hydrocephalus where a developing babies brain fills up with fluid around the developing skull. The excessive pressure pushes against the developing skull and is extremely painful. What kind of a god would allow such a thing to happen to an innocent developing baby?

    And what about disease? Did god just create disease to watch his loyal followers suffer? Because just as many christians die of horrendous diseases as non-christians. And as far as free will goes, no child being indoctrinated into a religion has no free will. I dont know if theres a god or not but if there is then hes incredibly cruel. There is nothing elevated or honorable about a god that would cause such needless suffering in the world, so Id rather attribute all of the terrible things in the world to other fundamental forces in the universe.
    I can sympathize with you. I buried both of my parents due to cancer both in their early 40's. I helped my dad take care of my mother until she passed away. Thats a kind of suffering I never cared to see again. But 18 months later my dad passed away from cancer. I was already a christian at the time and so were both of my parents. My dad was always prayerful and thankful through the whole ordeal. I struggled with it more than he did but seeing his faith helped me. People and things live, die, and suffer everyday. This isn't a perfect world. God gave man free will and we used it for disobedience thereby bring sin in. We have freedom to choose to do anything we want in society. If we get caught participating in illegal activities we have to pay the consequences for that choice.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-07-2013 01:44 AM
  19. AngelArs's Avatar
    I can sympathize with you. I buried both of my parents due to cancer both in their early 40's.
    So sorry for your loss cdmjlt369. My father had Pneumonia and while they were operating on him they found Cancer. My mother had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. Since my father had already passed I was her only care taker until Hospice came in to help out a little in the final month. One of the hardest parts was hearing my mother beg me to please let her take her own life. She would cry and say that she just couldn't live like that anymore. She would plead with me to end her life. Of course I couldn't but just hearing your own mother begging you with those words is something that I'll never forget. I cannot believe that a god would create such suffering, or turn a blind eye to it. There are much better explanations for such suffering in the world.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-07-2013 02:14 AM
  20. primevyl's Avatar
    So sorry for your loss cdmjlt369. My father had Pneumonia and while they were operating on him they found Cancer. My mother had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. Since my father had already passed I was her only care taker until Hospice came in to help out a little in the final month. One of the hardest parts was hearing my mother beg me to please let her take her own life. She would cry and say that she just couldn't live like that anymore. She would plead with me to end her life. Of course I couldn't but just hearing your own mother begging you with those words is something that I'll never forget. I cannot believe that a god would create such suffering, or turn a blind eye to it. There are much better explanations for such suffering in the world.
    My apologies for my earlier derision.


    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    07-07-2013 03:05 AM
  21. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    So sorry for your loss cdmjlt369. My father had Pneumonia and while they were operating on him they found Cancer. My mother had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. Since my father had already passed I was her only care taker until Hospice came in to help out a little in the final month. One of the hardest parts was hearing my mother beg me to please let her take her own life. She would cry and say that she just couldn't live like that anymore. She would plead with me to end her life. Of course I couldn't but just hearing your own mother begging you with those words is something that I'll never forget. I cannot believe that a god would create such suffering, or turn a blind eye to it. There are much better explanations for such suffering in the world.
    Thank you. My apologies to you as well for what you had to endure AngelArs. We as people often seem to have to bare things that seem unfair. I actually found much comfort in God through my faith. I was taught that things happen for a reason and we may never know the reasons.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-07-2013 03:26 AM
  22. JHBThree's Avatar
    So sorry for your loss cdmjlt369. My father had Pneumonia and while they were operating on him they found Cancer. My mother had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. Since my father had already passed I was her only care taker until Hospice came in to help out a little in the final month. One of the hardest parts was hearing my mother beg me to please let her take her own life. She would cry and say that she just couldn't live like that anymore. She would plead with me to end her life. Of course I couldn't but just hearing your own mother begging you with those words is something that I'll never forget. I cannot believe that a god would create such suffering, or turn a blind eye to it. There are much better explanations for such suffering in the world.
    I agree. Those are questions that I can never seem to get a good answer to from any of my more religious friends, besides 'everything happens for a reason', which is a rather trite response to someone in pain.

    In my case it was my grandmother. Fell in her apartment and had to go into a nursing home. While there, the staff didn't make sure she moved frequently enough, and my grandma suffered multiple strokes. She then went into a hospital where things were looking up, only for her to suffer even more strokes that damaged her brain beyond repair. The only choice we had, because it was the only thing she would have wanted, was to pull the feeding tube and let her go. In a span of two weeks she went from perfectly healthy to being on her deathbed.

    I still cannot reconcile the fact that God would allow someone that did genuine good while she was alive, and served her family and community without complaint, to die in such an unceremonious and painful way. She certainly didn't deserve it. Myself and the rest of my family didn't either.

    Then, couple the unbridled hate I have to endure because I am gay, something that I did not choose, and you can see why I have a hard time believing there's an omniscient being up there with a plan for me.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    GadgetGator and msndrstood like this.
    07-07-2013 03:34 AM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    numb to wishing and ruled by imagination it gets cold up here
    07-07-2013 03:46 AM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    Just when I thought we'd reached a well-off-ish place with the resolution to be nice to people, not hate people and keep religion out of politics... all of the sudden a bunch of links to pseudo science articles detailing the societal risks of same sex marriages, including health risks, blah blah started showing up in my Google + feed. I had a connection form that I've been kicking around for a long time but I might be able to articulate now:

    I can't say I don't understand the irrational fear of things that you think might disagree with your holy book... but why the obsession with it? Why the tearing your hair out, "its evil therefore we must convince everyone its evil!" on this issue, but not on wholesale robbery of the poor the book says to exalt, or the straight up murder of "the wretched" for profit... where is the war cry against the oppression of the weak by the powerful.. you certainly scream out loud enough when the weak attempt to fight oppression.. but always on the side of the boot, never on the face being stomped on, never question the stronger status-quo position, because despite their every action being the most "in Jesus' face" kind of duplicity and abuse, they say that they're "a Christian". That hypocrisy is why you get such a visceral reaction.. that and the cowardice.

    What is it about homosexuals, or minorities, or the poor, or women, or whatever, that makes Christians willing to hate lie and kill to suppress them? Where is that kind of zeal when it comes to defending things that Jesus is quoted for, like honesty, tolerance, humility and forgiveness?
    07-07-2013 04:07 AM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    It is quite obvious to see why people reject Christian, Muslim, etc. dogma... their own practitioners don't believe it. Every word of the prattle about not judging people, because God will and only God is wise enough to try... every word about forgiveness (kind of a silly point, given that there is nothing to forgive if you're not judging, also given that since sins are not a real thing, they're not doing anything wrong)... every word about the beauty of faith and love of Creation... every word of it is a lie. It is insulting to offer a hand of benevolence and assume everyone else is too stupid to see the poison tipped dagger clenched in the other hand, ready to plunge into the very soul of anyone who disagrees in the slightest about the ignorant misinterpretations of something as foolish as man-organized, man-made religion.
    07-07-2013 04:25 AM
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