06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. GadgetGator's Avatar
    . We were flawed when Adam and Eve disobeyed.
    There are some contradictions in your statements. I would say A&E were flawed from the beginning. Why? Because if someone was "perfect" they wouldn't be able to make a mistake, therefore would not be prone to things like temptation or making bad choices. Either they were perfect, or they were flawed. It cannot be both.

    As a side note, it is precisely because of this flawed state of mankind (which I totally agree with BTW), that I believe the Bible is inaccurate at best. You cannot have a bunch of flawed humans involved in something and have perfection result from it. There will be errors in there somewhere. Again, either flawed or perfect, it cannot be both.

    This is an excellent point... And one that I think I have a answer for. At least what I believe to be a solution.

    If we go through the story as it is told, God really had an option to not create us or to look at how he could create us with the necessary ability to have freewill and still be able to exist in his presence without sin. We can't have the option of choice without both good and evil being present.
    Then God created evil?

    So Satan is a important part in getting us to where we need to be.
    So God created Satan? When? Before the humans arrived? Then why did God need humans? He already had beings to converse with.

    The Bible says that through one man (Adam) sin entered the world and through one man (Jesus) it was destroyed.
    But you said babies are born sinful. Therefore it wasn't actually destroyed.

    The cycle has to be in place for us to get to the end. Any pain and suffering we have to endure on this earth is worth our reward at the end.
    You state that as a fact, but you have no real way of knowing other then a book and other men who have told you so. But once you are there...if you go somewhere at all....you might not think whatever "reward" you are getting was worth the pain and suffering you had to live with. Guess it depends on what the actual reward is! For instance, if I were told hey you get to live forever floating on a cloud someday but there isn't any of the music you like, or any of the other things you enjoyed on earth and you might be bored for all of eternity, would I think that was a good reward? No, I would not.

    They knew that it was worth it to allow evil and death to defeat them for the short time. God would take care of them in the end.
    People will put up with many things for their beliefs or how they feel. Even death. Look at how many gay people are in the world in countries like Iran and some in Africa, who are persecuted and even murdered because they refuse to go against their true nature and live a lie for someone else's comfort and benefit. God does not need to be in the mix for people to hold onto and be dedicated to their beliefs.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-08-2013 03:23 PM
  2. return_0's Avatar
    Since this is the new religion thread, I'll just leave this here.

    Fire away, folks.

    DOMA and Prop 8 fall-1373315586704.jpg

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    07-08-2013 03:33 PM
  3. pappy53's Avatar
    Here, read it for yourself. IMO I think the guys sign about sheep sums it up quite well. "Meanwhile, the proportion of Americans who say they are religious has fallen from 73% in 2005 to 60% in 2011." Link.
    And this info is from an Atheist site. It also talks about the Atheist billboard at the DNC. Meanwhile, Christians can't even wear a cross in school. Talk about a double standard.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using AC Forums mobile app
    07-08-2013 05:51 PM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    And this info is from an Atheist site. It also talks about the Atheist billboard at the DNC. Meanwhile, Christians can't even wear a cross in school. Talk about a double standard.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using AC Forums mobile app

    Are you in favor of members of all belief structures being able to wear their propaganda as well? In what way does any sign of indoctrination enhance the learning experience for other students? Especially when the child is merely parroting the beliefs of their parent's denomination, rather than having made a choice out of millions for themselves. We also don't allow swastikas and other discriminatory t-shirts, etc. because it's not conducive for a learning environment for students to wear flags of hatred and division. Many of the people flipping out because they can't have "a Chistmas tree" instead of a holiday tree in their school, courthouse or whatever would be wildly offended to see symbols of chanukah, kwanza or beltane.
    07-08-2013 06:14 PM
  5. AngelArs's Avatar
    Since this is the new religion thread, I'll just leave this here.
    Well played. I guess a picture IS worth a thousand words
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-08-2013 06:51 PM
  6. pappy53's Avatar
    And Christians are offended by Atheist billboards, so why are they allowed? The country is full of double standards, such as Jamie Foxx wearing a Trayvon Martin t-shirt. But if a white person wore a George Zimmerman t-shirt, it could possibly incite a riot.
    07-08-2013 06:53 PM
  7. AngelArs's Avatar
    And this info is from an Atheist site.
    Yes, that's how you know it's truthful

    HERE'S the same conclusion from a non-atheist site. Hope that helps
    07-08-2013 06:58 PM
  8. AngelArs's Avatar
    The country is full of double standards
    I agree. Which is why we need to fight discrimination every place we can.
    07-08-2013 07:03 PM
  9. pappy53's Avatar
    Yes, that's how you know it's truthful
    LOL!!
    07-08-2013 07:13 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    The country is full of double standards, such as Jamie Foxx wearing a Trayvon Martin t-shirt. But if a white person wore a George Zimmerman t-shirt, it could possibly incite a riot.
    Can you clarify this? Are you saying people SHOULD be annoyed by people supporting killers, or that they SHOULD NOT be annoyed because of the races of the respective people? Or something else?
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 07:17 PM
  11. return_0's Avatar
    But if a white person wore a George Zimmerman t-shirt, it could possibly incite a riot.
    Because he's a murderer.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Aquila and AngelArs like this.
    07-08-2013 07:20 PM
  12. return_0's Avatar
    LOL!!
    Lol, you didn't read the whole post.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    AngelArs likes this.
    07-08-2013 07:21 PM
  13. AngelArs's Avatar
    Then God created evil?
    Yes, god created everything. This would mean that he has no particular bias toward good or bad, which explains a lot. There are plenty of places in the bible where god could have intervened but simply chose not to. He could have obliterated satan entirely. And Gods behavior in the whole adam and eve affair smacks strongly of either extreme incompetence or deliberate malice. And what about his choice to burden all humans with sin rather than letting every human start off with a morally clean slate. I had a grade school teacher who did a similar thing. Shed give everyone in class an A at the beginning of the grading period, and it was up to you to keep it. You'd be surprised at how much harder someone is willing to work to keep something, rather than earn it from scratch. For this reason her class had an unusually high amount of As and Bs in it. Now if a grade school teacher could figure this out, you would think that a omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence being could figure it out too. Weird.

    The bigger question is; why would anyone want to worship a god who accepts responsibility for evil and suffering, but doesnt help to diminish it?
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 07:38 PM
  14. pappy53's Avatar
    Can you clarify this? Are you saying people SHOULD be annoyed by people supporting killers, or that they SHOULD NOT be annoyed because of the races of the respective people? Or something else?
    It shouldn't be a race issue.
    07-08-2013 09:28 PM
  15. pappy53's Avatar
    Because he's a murderer.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Oh, so you were there. Then you should be in the trial as an eye witness to the murder./sarcasm
    Since even Mr. Martin even said that it was not his son screaming, it seems that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. That is not murder.
    07-08-2013 09:33 PM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    It shouldn't be a race issue.
    I agree 100% that race shouldn't be an issue and when it is, when it's used as a reason to oppress or hurt people, we need to push back hard.
    07-08-2013 09:33 PM
  17. return_0's Avatar
    Oh, so you were there. Then you should be in the trial as an eye witness to the murder./sarcasm
    Since even Mr. Martin even said that it was not his son screaming, it seems that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. That is not murder.
    Yes, I too would be scared if I had a gun and someone was attacking me with a bag of skittles.

    Lol, are you really defending this guy? Smh...

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 09:34 PM
  18. pappy53's Avatar
    I agree 100% that race shouldn't be an issue and when it is, when it's used as a reason to oppress or hurt people, we need to push back hard.
    And it's fairly certain that Foxx did it as a racial thing, being that he is a known racist.
    07-08-2013 09:35 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    Oh, so you were there. Then you should be in the trial as an eye witness to the murder./sarcasm
    Since even Mr. Martin even said that it was not his son screaming, it seems that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. That is not murder.
    Are you watching the trial and/or learning the facts about this? The attacker has a right to shoot the person they attacked if they fight back, but the person initially attacked has no rights at all.... interesting. lol.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 09:37 PM
  20. pappy53's Avatar
    Yes, I too would be scared if I had a gun and someone was attacking me with a bag of skittles.

    Lol, are you really defending this guy? Smh...

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Yeah, if someone was on top of me banging my head into the cement, I'm going to get them off of me. And with Martin high on pot, there is no telling what he could have done.
    07-08-2013 09:37 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    And it's fairly certain that Foxx did it as a racial thing, being that he is a known racist.
    That and/or a show of solidarity for the victim of a senseless murder... a murder that seems to have been motivated by the victim's race. You know, tomato, potato.
    07-08-2013 09:38 PM
  22. pappy53's Avatar
    Are you watching the trial and/or learning the facts about this? The attacker has a right to shoot the person they attacked if they fight back, but the person initially attacked has no rights at all.... interesting. lol.

    Where did you come up with the notion that Martin was attacked?
    07-08-2013 09:39 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    Yeah, if someone was on top of me banging my head into the cement, I'm going to get them off of me. And with Martin high on pot, there is no telling what he could have done.
    Hopefully you'd be smart enough not to attack someone without provocation.. especially if you suck at fighting enough to lose even with the element of surprise, you being armed, etc.
    07-08-2013 09:40 PM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    Where did you come up with the notion that Martin was attacked?
    What do you call it when an armed racist fanatic with delusions of grandeur stalks and accosts you while you are walking around minding your own business? If you don't think there was a fight, where did all of the bruises, cuts etc on both of them come from and how did they end up on the ground?
    07-08-2013 09:42 PM
  25. pappy53's Avatar
    Hopefully you'd be smart enough not to attack someone without provocation.. especially if you suck at fighting enough to lose even with the element of surprise, you being armed, etc.
    He didn't attack him. At least no proof or witness.
    07-08-2013 09:42 PM
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