06-30-2014 01:17 AM
1,813 ... 4344454647 ...
tools
  1. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    No...you can believe whatever you want. People quarrel over Christians for their ACTIONS. Big difference. Hate gay people all you want. Believe that we are all going to hell. I really don't care. I neither require, nor seek your approval. But when people get in the way of my rights and start affecting my life, my family, and my finances adversely, a line has been crossed. And at that point, we have a problem.
    Just promise me that if you get married, we get to see plenty of pictures of the happy couple here in the lounge
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 11:47 PM
  2. JHBThree's Avatar
    One of the most brilliant mathematical modelers I know falls headfirst into both categories. Definitely hilarious when I get to debate with him
    Some of them can be totally awesome. (Several of my closest friends in my fraternity were homeschooled/fundies) Others just reinforce the stereotype.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    07-08-2013 11:55 PM
  3. JHBThree's Avatar
    No...you can believe whatever you want. People quarrel over Christians for their ACTIONS. Big difference. Hate gay people all you want. Believe that we are all going to hell. I really don't care. I neither require, nor seek your approval. But when people get in the way of my rights and start affecting my life, my family, and my finances adversely, a line has been crossed. And at that point, we have a problem.
    I believe a mic being dropped is necessary at the end of this superb post.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    AngelArs and GadgetGator like this.
    07-08-2013 11:56 PM
  4. badbrad17's Avatar
    There are some contradictions in your statements. I would say A&E were flawed from the beginning. Why? Because if someone was "perfect" they wouldn't be able to make a mistake, therefore would not be prone to things like temptation or making bad choices. Either they were perfect, or they were flawed. It cannot be both.

    As a side note, it is precisely because of this flawed state of mankind (which I totally agree with BTW), that I believe the Bible is inaccurate at best. You cannot have a bunch of flawed humans involved in something and have perfection result from it. There will be errors in there somewhere. Again, either flawed or perfect, it cannot be both.
    I think we are in the semantics zone now. Let were perfection as created beings with free will to choose between good and evil. The flaw came when they chose to disobey. No different than many cause and effect scenarios.

    Then God created evil?
    No but he did create the being that decided to rebel against God and become evil. Does a parent create evil in their child?

    So God created Satan? When? Before the humans arrived? Then why did God need humans? He already had beings to converse with.
    Yes before humans. He created us because he wanted more than subservient beings. The bible says that we are more than Angels. We are loving creatures which apparently makes us different. We create a different type of fellowship.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 12:10 AM
  5. badbrad17's Avatar
    I actually didn't mention you, you rose to the description. I was talking about the attitudes that are shared by a select few people in these forums and a very vocal minority in the country as a whole. I'd love to understand how you think I hate anyone, let alone God or am spreading lies about God. What specifically do you think my agenda is? Please, enlighten me with your analysis.
    Sorry buddy. My fault.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 12:16 AM
  6. Aquila's Avatar
    Sorry buddy. My fault.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Debating religion and science and their alleged interdependence is fun when everyone is treating it as an intellectual exercise, where both sides are hypothetical.
    badbrad17 and msndrstood like this.
    07-09-2013 12:36 AM
  7. badbrad17's Avatar
    But you said babies are born sinful. Therefore it wasn't actually destroyed.
    It has been destroyed in that Jesus' sacrifice of himself on the cross pays for our sin. This is the justification and justice required to allow us to go to Heaven. But this will not come to fruition until our bodies die or the final prophecies from the book of Revelation are full filled.

    You state that as a fact, but you have no real way of knowing other then a book and other men who have told you so. But once you are there...if you go somewhere at all....you might not think whatever "reward" you are getting was worth the pain and suffering you had to live with. Guess it depends on what the actual reward is! For instance, if I were told hey you get to live forever floating on a cloud someday but there isn't any of the music you like, or any of the other things you enjoyed on earth and you might be bored for all of eternity, would I think that was a good reward? No, I would not.
    I didn't state it as fact in fact I am considering changing my signature because people keep saying that. It is only what I believe. I have gone so far as to post that it is impossible to prove that God is real empirically. Like many other things. So my opinion of heaven is this...

    God is all things good incarnate. It is hard for us to think about worshipping something but I believe that the pure goodness of God will provide us with immeasurable joy that speaks to our hearts personally. We try to think in earthy terms which is not possible because we live in a world that has evil in it. Once we are free of this our experiences will change. And I believe that Hell will be the opposite of this pure goodness. It will be everything that isn't God. That is why it has been called darkness or a void. The burning part was supposed to be symbolic imo. But regardless, a place that doesn't have the existence or ability to produce happiness or joy would not be fun. No matter what AC/DC said. Lol

    People will put up with many things for their beliefs or how they feel. Even death. Look at how many gay people are in the world in countries like Iran and some in Africa, who are persecuted and even murdered because they refuse to go against their true nature and live a lie for someone else's comfort and benefit. God does not need to be in the mix for people to hold onto and be dedicated to their beliefs.
    This is true. People who are rejected and tormented for their sexual lifestyle should never be treated this way either. But it doesn't negate the passion that the disciples endured for their beliefs either. It actually only validates that they truly believed in Jesus and were willing to die for their faith.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 12:40 AM
  8. badbrad17's Avatar
    Debating religion and science and their alleged interdependence is fun when everyone is treating it as an intellectual exercise, where both sides are hypothetical.
    All we can do is be passionate and polite in sharing our beliefs. If I've offended you or anyone else I am truly sorry.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-09-2013 12:42 AM
  9. badbrad17's Avatar
    Are you in favor of members of all belief structures being able to wear their propaganda as well? In what way does any sign of indoctrination enhance the learning experience for other students? Especially when the child is merely parroting the beliefs of their parent's denomination, rather than having made a choice out of millions for themselves. We also don't allow swastikas and other discriminatory t-shirts, etc. because it's not conducive for a learning environment for students to wear flags of hatred and division. Many of the people flipping out because they can't have "a Chistmas tree" instead of a holiday tree in their school, courthouse or whatever would be wildly offended to see symbols of chanukah, kwanza or beltane.
    Sikh's are allowed to wear turbans in school in Canada. Is this similar? I think we can wear crosses too for that matter. I'm gonna say no to swastikas, but pretty much everything else goes as far as I know as long as it's not hate related.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 12:57 AM
  10. gollum18's Avatar
    Sikh's are allowed to wear turbans in school in Canada. Is this similar? I think we can wear crosses too for that matter. I'm gonna say no to swastikas, but pretty much everything else goes as far as I know as long as it's not hate related.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    A would say wearing turbans has to do more with their culture and heritage than their religious preferences.

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    07-09-2013 02:01 AM
  11. Farish's Avatar
    Sikh's are allowed to wear turbans in school in Canada. Is this similar? I think we can wear crosses too for that matter. I'm gonna say no to swastikas, but pretty much everything else goes as far as I know as long as it's not hate related.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    A would say wearing turbans has to do more with their culture and heritage than their religious preferences.

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    They wear turbans to keep their hair together.

    Their is no religious meaning in the turban itself, just the fact they aren't allow to cut their hair.
    msndrstood, gollum18 and badbrad17 like this.
    07-09-2013 08:57 AM
  12. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Sikh's are allowed to wear turbans in school in Canada. Is this similar? I think we can wear crosses too for that matter. I'm gonna say no to swastikas, but pretty much everything else goes as far as I know as long as it's not hate related.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Who defines what is "hate related"?
    A whole lot of people hate the cross.
    07-09-2013 11:15 AM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    Here in America these days, there is nothing that people DON'T get offended by. We no longer have any character nor backbone. We are now a nation of skinny-jean-wearing softies.



    Edit: I wasn't referring to hate. I'm referring to character.

    Edit #2:
    No. I don't wear skinny jeans (I hate them).
    met.watts, badbrad17 and Aquila like this.
    07-09-2013 11:20 AM
  14. badbrad17's Avatar
    A would say wearing turbans has to do more with their culture and heritage than their religious preferences.

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    Well this website states this: The turban is our Guru's gift to us. It is how we crown ourselves as the Singhs and Kaurs who sit on the throne of commitment to our own higher consciousness. For men and women alike, this projective identity conveys royalty, grace, and uniqueness. It is a signal to others that we live in the image of Infinity and are dedicated to serving all. The turban doesn't represent anything except complete commitment. When you choose to stand out by tying your turban, you stand fearlessly as one single person standing out from six billion people. It is a most outstanding act.

    - The act of wearing it is symbolic religiously which is no different than wearing a cross or any other symbol. I'm actually really surprised to hear that this type of sensorship is occurring.

    I have also seen a trend in fashion lately where people are wearing clothing with crosses on them. My girls started asking for them based purely on fashion and not because of any religious affiliation. I keep seeing lots of kids wearing them now. I wonder how this could be perceived under these rules?

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 11:48 AM
  15. badbrad17's Avatar
    Who defines what is "hate related"?
    A whole lot of people hate the cross.
    I really am not sure who made this decision or why this is happening. I don't think it is happening in Canada at all. Can anyone confirm for sure that this is happening in the US?

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 11:50 AM
  16. badbrad17's Avatar
    They wear turbans to keep their hair together.

    Their is no religious meaning in the turban itself, just the fact they aren't allow to cut their hair.
    But that's not what I have found. It clearly says there is symbolic religious representation. I am all for freedom of expression. I just think there could be a double standard. A cross does nothing to harm anyone. Really seems like censorship to me.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 11:54 AM
  17. jdbii's Avatar
    A cross does nothing to harm anyone.
    When I was in college a Jewish history professor of mine asked our class what feelings Jews feel when they see a cross or crucifix, and the class didn't know, He responded, "Throughout history the cross strikes fear in Jews when they see it." Times might be different now since there are no violent pogroms and the Spanish Inquisition is centuries old, but religious symbols mean different things to different people.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-09-2013 12:27 PM
  18. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Just promise me that if you get married, we get to see plenty of pictures of the happy couple here in the lounge
    Okay deal! Now if I could figure out the time and place and get my mom to stop trying to control what the hell we wear that day, I would be all set. LOL

    I didn't state it as fact in fact I am considering changing my signature because people keep saying that. It is only what I believe. I have gone so far as to post that it is impossible to prove that God is real empirically. Like many other things. So my opinion of heaven is this...
    There's a reason people keep telling you that. It's the way you are phrasing things. I notice this tendancy with ALL people who beleive in a certain religion. They beleive so profoundly, that even unprovable things become quite factual in their minds. For instance this next line...

    God is all things good incarnate.
    It's stated as if it is a true bona-fide fact. But it's not. It's just an opinion. If I said "Space aliens are benevolent creatures" it would be an equally incorrectly presented "fact".

    It is hard for us to think about worshipping something but I believe that the pure goodness of God will provide us with immeasurable joy that speaks to our hearts personally.
    Now see, that's the way to phrase things. Totally makes sense, and totally frames it as what you believe rather then some provable scientific observation.

    This is true. People who are rejected and tormented for their sexual lifestyle should never be treated this way either.
    I don't like that word, "lifestyle". I don't like it when it is used on Christians, I never hear it used to describe heterosexuality, but it would be wrong there too, and it is certainly wrong to say about me. It isn't a lifestyle...say rich or poor...it just is something that is. It's like telling someone they are living a black lifestyle or a red-headed lifestyle. No, I am just living a life.

    I think we are in the semantics zone now. Let were perfection as created beings with free will to choose between good and evil. The flaw came when they chose to disobey. No different than many cause and effect scenarios.
    Semantics? Perfect and imperfect are polar opposites. It's not a subtle difference. I stand by the opinion that perfect creatures cannot do imperfect things. Falling into greed/lust/temptation is an imperfect emotion/action, therefore either they could not have been perfect creatures, in any sense of the word "perfect". Perfect means "without errors". What you are saying, is that they committed a grievous error.

    No but he did create the being that decided to rebel against God and become evil. Does a parent create evil in their child?
    Then this statement undermines the entire Christian concept of God. If he didn't create everything, than he is not all powerful. If he is all powerful, then he must have created everything. How can something arrise which he did not create? Can't have it both ways. Also the analogy of parent/child is a flawed one as the parent didn't create the universe the child lives in, or the way the child comes about in the first place, or the child's soul, or the rules that a child operates under (physics, you need air to breathe, water to drink, etc. etc...parents were responsible for NONE of that). Parents of a child are mere actors still operating under the same rules as everyone else is. They aren't making their own rules of time and space as they go along.

    Yes before humans. He created us because he wanted more than subservient beings. The bible says that we are more than Angels. We are loving creatures which apparently makes us different. We create a different type of fellowship.
    I thought he created us because he was lonely. Why couldn't those beings just not be made subservient? Here again, I think it is a case of mankind arrogantly reverse writing ourselves into the mix.
    07-09-2013 12:38 PM
  19. badbrad17's Avatar
    There's a reason people keep telling you that. It's the way you are phrasing things. I notice this tendancy with ALL people who beleive in a certain religion. They beleive so profoundly, that even unprovable things become quite factual in their minds. For instance this next line...
    This is totally not a fair observation "in my opinion" the same can be said about so many people that say "evolution is a fact". Or many other quotes posted on this thread that do the same thing. Maybe I explain things in a way that appear to be stated as facts. Maybe I'm a good salesman. You would see nothing different in a classroom where someone tries to prove their scientific findings. I believe that the real issue is that people don't want religion to be true so any time it goes against their opinion then they take offense and cry foul. I have debated science with people who said I shouldn't bring religion into science. I said okay and began different views on how evolutionary discoveries were untrue yet still being taught as truth. Like clock work they would move back to slamming religion. I would have to remind them that they were the ones that asked that religion not be brought into our discussion of science.

    We are all expressing our opinions. If you feel something needs to be clarified as fact then I am more than willing to do so. I have stated over and over that these are just things I have read and believe personally so I'm not sure what else I can do. I think they are true because I believe it. There is lots of science to back up some of the things I've stated yet very few bother to read what I post so I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If you want to get into the details and really find why I think things are true for me then you would need to be prepared to spend many hours learning about the Bible and how it relates to very specific scientific and mathematical research. Some are still theoretical like most science but there is tons of real evidence in many areas both scientifically and historically. I have read lots of things posted by other people stating that the Bible is not true for this reason or because of a video or post and have taken the time to weigh the logic they are using to come up with their opinion. I am not one sided in my willingness to learn but I have to be one sided when I assess all the things I learn. There is a point where I have to weigh the odds of probability and decide what I believed to be true or false. The only issue is that there are thousands of things to be discussed, so it is not a 15 minute discussion that can be concluded on a chat forum.

    I don't like that word, "lifestyle". I don't like it when it is used on Christians, I never hear it used to describe heterosexuality, but it would be wrong there too, and it is certainly wrong to say about me. It isn't a lifestyle...say rich or poor...it just is something that is. It's like telling someone they are living a black lifestyle or a red-headed lifestyle. No, I am just living a life.
    My comment was not supposed to characterize anything or anyone. But since you brought it up I believe our decision to engage sexually with other people is at some point a lifestyle choice. And heterosexual people have the same lifestyle choices too. I won't get into the details but there many different activities that go on among heterosexual people that are definitely lifestyle choices.

    I will tell you a story and you can feel free to disagree or slam me for it if you like. It is a real story with a real person that I know very well. I have held off from sharing it as I felt someone may be upset. This is a tech forum after all but considering the comment I will throw myself to the lions.

    I have a friend who came from a very religious home. He was as many would say born gay. He struggled with his identity and didn't understand his feelings. He had been told that homosexuality was wrong and didn't want to have these feelings.

    He was a good friend when we were in our teens and early 20's and one day he told me he had homosexual feelings and was gay. I didn't judge him or treat him differently but I knew he had a difficult path ahead of him considering this was the early 80's and his family was very conservative. He was in my wedding party and after a few years he moved away. I hadn't seen him for nearly 20 years until around 2 years ago. He called me out of the blue and we went for coffee. I honestly was expecting him to tell me he had met someone and was living his life. What he told me was the total opposite. He said that he had struggled with his life for many years yet after much inner soul searching had found that his sexual feelings were caused by specific events in his life as a child. THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS! He began going to a support group of sorts and admitted that much of his experience was from many emotional problems he had with his father. He had felt like he wasn't accepted by his father which caused him to crave physical attention from men while females did nothing for him. He began to work to patch some of these emotional issues in his relationship with his father and slowly began to address where his emotions and physical desires met. I was quite shocked actually but we said goodbye and said we would stay in touch. It was only around a year later that I received a letter from him with an interesting thing in it. I had received an invitation to his wedding. And not to another man but to a woman. I spoke to him after and he had explained that he had completely overcome his homosexual feelings and had met this amazing woman at his support group who had been a lesbian for her entire life and had a similar experience. They had fallen in love and decided to get married. He also told me that over the course of his life he had met many people from many walks of life that had similar stories.

    So based on this real life experience I have decided to believe that our sexuality is a choice. You are entitled to believe something else and you may have different experiences However there is one thing I have observed as I meet people from the gay community and through the media. There are apparently many similar stories from outspoken gay and lesbian people that have a tale of abuse or other tragic experiences that have formed who they are sexually. My friends situation was not as dramatic yet had what he believed to be a root cause of his feelings. I don't believe this is the case for everyone but I have found it to be an interesting observation.

    I hope people will not hate me for telling this story. It is one that was not easy to tell but I felt it may resonate with some people.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-09-2013 04:30 PM
  20. JHBThree's Avatar
    This is totally not a fair observation "in my opinion" the same can be said about so many people that say "evolution is a fact". Or many other quotes posted on this thread that do the same thing. Maybe I explain things in a way that appear to be stated as facts. Maybe I'm a good salesman. You would see nothing different in a classroom where someone tries to prove their scientific findings. I believe that the real issue is that people don't want religion to be true so any time it goes against their opinion then they take offense and cry foul. I have debated science with people who said I shouldn't bring religion into science. I said okay and began different views on how evolutionary discoveries were untrue yet still being taught as truth. Like clock work they would move back to slamming religion. I would have to remind them that they were the ones that asked that religion not be brought into our discussion of science.

    We are all expressing our opinions. If you feel something needs to be clarified as fact then I am more than willing to do so. I have stated over and over that these are just things I have read and believe personally so I'm not sure what else I can do. I think they are true because I believe it. There is lots of science to back up some of the things I've stated yet very few bother to read what I post so I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If you want to get into the details and really find why I think things are true for me then you would need to be prepared to spend many hours learning about the Bible and how it relates to very specific scientific and mathematical research. Some are still theoretical like most science but there is tons of real evidence in many areas both scientifically and historically. I have read lots of things posted by other people stating that the Bible is not true for this reason or because of a video or post and have taken the time to weigh the logic they are using to come up with their opinion. I am not one sided in my willingness to learn but I have to be one sided when I assess all the things I learn. There is a point where I have to weigh the odds of probability and decide what I believed to be true or false. The only issue is that there are thousands of things to be discussed, so it is not a 15 minute discussion that can be concluded on a chat forum.

    My comment was not supposed to characterize anything or anyone. But since you brought it up I believe our decision to engage sexually with other people is at some point a lifestyle choice. And heterosexual people have the same lifestyle choices too. I won't get into the details but there many different activities that go on among heterosexual people that are definitely lifestyle choices.

    I will tell you a story and you can feel free to disagree or slam me for it if you like. It is a real story with a real person that I know very well. I have held off from sharing it as I felt someone may be upset. This is a tech forum after all but considering the comment I will throw myself to the lions.

    I have a friend who came from a very religious home. He was as many would say born gay. He struggled with his identity and didn't understand his feelings. He had been told that homosexuality was wrong and didn't want to have these feelings.

    He was a good friend when we were in our teens and early 20's and one day he told me he had homosexual feelings and was gay. I didn't judge him or treat him differently but I knew he had a difficult path ahead of him considering this was the early 80's and his family was very conservative. He was in my wedding party and after a few years he moved away. I hadn't seen him for nearly 20 years until around 2 years ago. He called me out of the blue and we went for coffee. I honestly was expecting him to tell me he had met someone and was living his life. What he told me was the total opposite. He said that he had struggled with his life for many years yet after much inner soul searching had found that his sexual feelings were caused by specific events in his life as a child. THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS! He began going to a support group of sorts and admitted that much of his experience was from many emotional problems he had with his father. He had felt like he wasn't accepted by his father which caused him to crave physical attention from men while females did nothing for him. He began to work to patch some of these emotional issues in his relationship with his father and slowly began to address where his emotions and physical desires met. I was quite shocked actually but we said goodbye and said we would stay in touch. It was only around a year later that I received a letter from him with an interesting thing in it. I had received an invitation to his wedding. And not to another man but to a woman. I spoke to him after and he had explained that he had completely overcome his homosexual feelings and had met this amazing woman at his support group who had been a lesbian for her entire life and had a similar experience. They had fallen in love and decided to get married. He also told me that over the course of his life he had met many people from many walks of life that had similar stories.

    So based on this real life experience I have decided to believe that our sexuality is a choice. You are entitled to believe something else and you may have different experiences However there is one thing I have observed as I meet people from the gay community and through the media. There are apparently many similar stories from outspoken gay and lesbian people that have a tale of abuse or other tragic experiences that have formed who they are sexually. My friends situation was not as dramatic yet had what he believed to be a root cause of his feelings. I don't believe this is the case for everyone but I have found it to be an interesting observation.

    I hope people will not hate me for telling this story. It is one that was not easy to tell but I felt it may resonate with some people.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Sexuality is not a choice. That is not my opinion, that is a fact.

    That support group your friend went to is banned in many states for teaching ex-gay conversion therapy, which has caused the suicides of dozens of individuals and untold damage to many many more. Those other people he talked about are victims of that group and others like it.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-09-2013 04:40 PM
  21. NotJustAPhone's Avatar
    Thread closed for moderator review.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note II
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-09-2013 05:12 PM
  22. NotJustAPhone's Avatar
    Thread has been reopened. We hope that the discussion can resume in a civil and thoughtful manner.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note II
    Aquila likes this.
    07-10-2013 06:09 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    Thread has been reopened. We hope that the discussion can resume in a civil and thoughtful manner.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note II
    Thanks!
    07-10-2013 06:11 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    07-10-2013 06:38 PM
  25. badbrad17's Avatar
    Sexuality is not a choice. That is not my opinion, that is a fact.

    That support group your friend went to is banned in many states for teaching ex-gay conversion therapy, which has caused the suicides of dozens of individuals and untold damage to many many more. Those other people he talked about are victims of that group and others like it.
    Sorry. You sound upset and this was not my intention. Like I said I am just relaying a true story. But I have to comment in order to gain some clarification on your post.

    First of all you nor I know nothing about this support group. We are in Canada. And to blame a specific group for the suicides of people is so generalized it makes no sense. There may be groups with ill intent out there but in Canada we are very liberal. If the group was dragging people in and degrading them then this would be wrong. This was not the case, so I don't agree with your assessment.

    You have also stated that it is an empirical fact that being gay is not a choice. I have been criticized for saying things in my posts that have been perceived as fact yet I have only stated my opinion. Yet you are actually making a claim without any proof at all. Where are the people who want to stand up and ask for the burden of proof on this one? Apparently it's too touchy a subject or not politically correct? I don't know. I on the other hand have told a true story without malice that for all intents and purposes is a scientific study that clearly proves your comment to be false. This has nothing to do with my opinion. It is just data based on the lives of 2 people. And to also extrapolate on this topic I also know 2 other people that have similar stories. 1 is my neighbors daughter who has been out of the closet for many years. Very proud and yet just last week her mom posted on Facebook that she is also now getting married to a man. I do not know why or even have details as to why she made this choice, but it has to be a choice. What other option is there? Maybe she was also subjected to one of these suicidal groups and is delusional to her real existence. It's really strange. For me I can't help but be wallowed down in the scientific data that is in front of me in my small Canadian city. If we are born into this and are who we are then why the flip flopping? I have another one. My niece is a lesbian. Strong willed. She and her girl friend were (I believe) the first couple in Vancouver to go to high school prom together. This was many years ago and did light up some of the local news. She also is very strong willed and was a strong advocate of the gay community. Yet after a number of years she still dated boys once in a while. She didn't care in the least what anyone thought. She had loving supportive parents around her. Then after a number of years she ended up marrying a female and I assume she is still a lesbian. I say assume because I really don't know. It appears that all the people I know are making choices to either be gay or not be gay at different times. Or are the rules different for bisexuals? I honestly don't know. Are they just working it out biologically?

    A better question would be how should the opinions and lifestyle of these 2 people who are now happily married be judged? They were both gay people who would have been according to you born gay without choice. Yet here they are now married at almost 50 years old I might add and in love and the exact opposite of suicidal. They have said to me that they feel free of the thing that had held them captive for their entire lives.

    So what should I say to them? They are brainwashed or lying to me? Or is this just an anomaly in my small city?

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-10-2013 07:26 PM
1,813 ... 4344454647 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Automatic time zone and date/clock are wrong
    By ajua in forum HTC One M7
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 07-04-2018, 01:12 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-05-2013, 10:34 AM
  3. Using the TMobile Note 2 in Asia (not Japan & Korea) and Europe for 3G internet
    By Internet_Tough_Guy in forum T-Mobile Galaxy Note 2
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  4. Icon question and SMS question
    By JT Peters in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-26-2013, 02:55 PM
  5. USA today review and water damage...
    By quietlybrilliant in forum Samsung Galaxy S4 Active
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-26-2013, 11:13 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD