06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. GadgetGator's Avatar
    And hearing "you're a homophobe, you have to accept it, you have to tell your children its OK." Is different?

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    You don't have to tell your children anything. Not sure where you're pulling that from. However you must realize that over their lifetimes, your kids will be exposed to many people and many ways of thinking. Short of locking them in a dungeon, you cannot control what they learn about. And you can control their own feelings even less. It's possible that one or more of your kids could be gay. Right now. Already. (I knew at four).

    As for the other part of your post, Yes, you DO have to accept equality if you live in one of the free countires of the world. Freedom doesn't mean "freedom for just myself, but not others", it means freedom for ALL. Not sure why this is such a hard concept for some of you. Don't like the concept of freedom for all? Then move to some other country that oppresses it's citizens. Just be aware that you could be oppressed there yourself for some reason, so any anti-gay paradise you find, might not turn out to be such a paradise after all.

    You complaning about being labeled a homophobe is well, for lack of a better word...a weak comparison. Let me know when someone comitts suicide for being labeled a homophobe. Let me know when someone gets tied to a fence and left for dead because they are a homophobe. Or beat up even. Let me know when a homophobe dies and their family kicks out their partner and they lose everything...because they were a homophobe. Let me know when a homophobe is kicked out of their house by their parents and finds themselves homeless on the streets turning tricks in order to survive. Let me know when people start voting on homophobe's relationships and saying untrue things about them in TV ads. Don't even compare being labeled a homophobe to the persecution that gay people have been subjected to. It's not even close to being the same.
    msndrstood likes this.
    08-18-2013 11:08 PM
  2. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    You don't have to tell your children anything. Not sure where you're pulling that from. However you must realize that over their lifetimes, your kids will be exposed to many people and many ways of thinking. Short of locking them in a dungeon, you cannot control what they learn about. And you can control their own feelings even less. It's possible that one or more of your kids could be gay. Right now. Already. (I knew at four).

    As for the other part of your post, Yes, you DO have to accept equality if you live in one of the free countires of the world. Freedom doesn't mean "freedom for just myself, but not others", it means freedom for ALL. Not sure why this is such a hard concept for some of you. Don't like the concept of freedom for all? Then move to some other country that oppresses it's citizens. Just be aware that you could be oppressed there yourself for some reason, so any anti-gay paradise you find, might not turn out to be such a paradise after all.

    You complaning about being labeled a homophobe is well, for lack of a better word...a weak comparison. Let me know when someone comitts suicide for being labeled a homophobe. Let me know when someone gets tied to a fence and left for dead because they are a homophobe. Or beat up even. Let me know when a homophobe dies and their family kicks out their partner and they lose everything...because they were a homophobe. Let me know when a homophobe is kicked out of their house by their parents and finds themselves homeless on the streets turning tricks in order to survive. Let me know when people start voting on homophobe's relationships and saying untrue things about them in TV ads. Don't even compare being labeled a homophobe to the persecution that gay people have been subjected to. It's not even close to being the same.
    Its just in my opinion, gay people have went from being the oppressed to the oppressors. Look at the attacks on the chick fil a owner. They asked a Christian what he believed, then they are shocked with the answer? Did he say they need to be killed? There are all types of people that have been ridiculed from special interest groups and lose jobs and even careers. All I hear is how "we want to be treated the same as everyone else." Then, after a comedian jokes and makes fun of every walk of life, then makes a gay joke, they get threatened into an apology by gay rights advocates.



    Where did I say we weren't all equal? I said people are free to do whatever they want. But when someone tries to shove their agenda down my throat, I don't have to agree. That's like someone getting mad at you for not accepting Islam and saying you don't think they're equal.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    08-18-2013 11:37 PM
  3. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Its just in my opinion, gay people have went from being the oppressed to the oppressors.
    More like the bullies are now playing the victim. But it's not true. It's a lie. No one is opressing you. No one. No one is murdering you. No one is beating you up for who you are or your views. No one is voting on your marriage or your rights. Meanwhile, despite out progress, gays are still getting beat up and even murdered. We still have to look over our shoulder worried that someone may beat us up just for being who we are. Do you worry about being beat up because you hold your spouses hand? No. No anti-gay person need fear that because we are not going around beating them up.

    Look at the attacks on the chick fil a owner. They asked a Christian what he believed, then they are shocked with the answer? Did he say they need to be killed?
    Well, I do agree that no one should be shocked. I don't know why anyone was. i certainly wasn't. i long ago figured anyone closed on Sundays was hardcore and avoided the place. When the truth came out it didn't surprise me in the least. And why he might not have said that we need to be killed, if you follow the money trail, his company was donating money to some very unsavory types. It seems like you think that he should be able to say whatever he wants without anyone being critical. Why?

    There are all types of people that have been ridiculed from special interest groups and lose jobs and even careers. All I hear is how "we want to be treated the same as everyone else." Then, after a comedian jokes and makes fun of every walk of life, then makes a gay joke, they get threatened into an apology by gay rights advocates.
    You mean bigoted comments? Living in a free country means you are entitled to free speech. It doesn't mean you are free from criticism.

    Where did I say we weren't all equal? I said people are free to do whatever they want. But when someone tries to shove their agenda down my throat, I don't have to agree. That's like someone getting mad at you for not accepting Islam and saying you don't think they're equal.
    Equality is not an "agenda". If you are in the U.S., It's actually the existing law of the land. It's called the Constitution.
    Oofa and JHBThree like this.
    08-19-2013 01:50 AM
  4. llamabreath's Avatar
    ... if you follow the money trail, his company was donating money to some very unsavory types.
    I don't know who his company donated to, nor will I make anything up, but unsavory types to some people are savory types to others. Who is anyone to say to whom he should donate to? He doesn't even have to donate to anyone, let alone "unsavory types" in your opinion. Yes, you should've added "IMO".

    It's his money, he could do whatever he wants with it. He could even use it to rent anti-gay billboards if he chooses to.

    By the way, are you implying that gays don't donate to unsavory types? Or isn't that just an opinion too.

    08-19-2013 06:27 AM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    I think this just means that some who choose to boycott this person's business are doing so because of financial support of organizations that espouse an ideology and contribute propaganda to causes that is contrary to the notions of equality that they (those who boycott) are trying to support.

    I personally have no problem with anyone choosing to or not to do business with a company because of ideological differences with the owners, management, etc. That actually kinda makes more sense to me in the vote-with-your-dollars context than some celebrity was wearing that brand or on the commercial, etc. Brand is just as important to competition as actual product quality, and perhaps much more so.

    If this guy wants to define his fear as his brand, he's taking a gamble on the publicity and that there are people who will choose his brand specifically because they agree with him. It's no different than those companies that are exploiting the exact same feelings of contention on the other side of the conversation for the benefit or to the detriment, depending on reception, of their brand.

    In the same way that one might boycott Morgan, Chase or Citigroup because of their financial support to terrorist organizations over the past 30 years, some are profiting wildly off of the same activities and may support those companies for that specific reason. I agree, "unsavory" is relative to perspective. That being said, in my opinion it is pretty anti-american (defined in this case as contrary to the ideals that the country is founded upon, but not necessarily limited to the limitations of vision at that moment) (it's okay to extrapolate if it's done honestly) to try to segment out which citizens are worth of which rights and protections and to what degree.

    To me, equality is either universal or pointless. If you won't stand up for (or at least get out of the way of) another human's rights, why should they give a damn about yours?
    msndrstood and GadgetGator like this.
    08-19-2013 07:43 AM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    I think this just means that some who choose to boycott this person's business are doing so because of financial support of organizations that espouse an ideology and contribute propaganda to causes that is contrary to the notions of equality that they (those who boycott) are trying to support.

    I personally have no problem with anyone choosing to or not to do business with a company because of ideological differences with the owners, management, etc. That actually kinda makes more sense to me in the vote-with-your-dollars context than some celebrity was wearing that brand or on the commercial, etc. Brand is just as important to competition as actual product quality, and perhaps much more so.

    If this guy wants to define his fear as his brand, he's taking a gamble on the publicity and that there are people who will choose his brand specifically because they agree with him. It's no different than those companies that are exploiting the exact same feelings of contention on the other side of the conversation for the benefit or to the detriment, depending on reception, of their brand.

    In the same way that one might boycott Morgan, Chase or Citigroup because of their financial support to terrorist organizations over the past 30 years, some are profiting wildly off of the same activities and may support those companies for that specific reason. I agree, "unsavory" is relative to perspective. That being said, in my opinion it is pretty anti-american (defined in this case as contrary to the ideals that the country is founded upon, but not necessarily limited to the limitations of vision at that moment) (it's okay to extrapolate if it's done honestly) to try to segment out which citizens are worth of which rights and protections and to what degree.

    To me, equality is either universal or pointless. If you won't stand up for (or at least get out of the way of) another human's rights, why should they give a damn about yours?
    It appears that you have not clocked in; therfore any thoughts, spinning and subsequent retorts shall be suspended from my direction.




    08-19-2013 08:05 AM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    It appears that you have not clocked in; therfore any thoughts, spinning and subsequent retorts shall be suspended from my direction.




    Roger that, sorry about the mix up!
    08-19-2013 03:43 PM
  8. llamabreath's Avatar
    Roger that, sorry about the mix up!
    lol lol :beer:

    08-19-2013 03:46 PM
  9. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I don't know who his company donated to, nor will I make anything up, but unsavory types to some people are savory types to others. Who is anyone to say to whom he should donate to? He doesn't even have to donate to anyone, let alone "unsavory types" in your opinion. Yes, you should've added "IMO".

    It's his money, he could do whatever he wants with it. He could even use it to rent anti-gay billboards if he chooses to.

    By the way, are you implying that gays don't donate to unsavory types? Or isn't that just an opinion too.

    Newsflash for you.....gays can do what they want with their money too. Including not giving to homophobic business owners that will later use those dollars against them. Don't know why this is even in question. No one has ever said he can't give money to whom he wants. Plus the CFA story is old news. Why are we talking about it again?

    i really don't get anti-gay people. It's like you want freedom to do whatever you want (which you HAVE) but also want to be free from any crictism over the things you say or the people you donate money to. Sorry. It doesn't work one way like that. Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen then.

    As for unsavory types, if you can show where any gays have donated money to politicans from other countries to make "kill the Christian" bills get passed, then I will condem that too. But until that time, I don't beleive we are donating to unsavory types. The person you are conversing with now sure hasn't. You really need to learn what anti-gay organzations do...especially in other countries when they can't get their way here. Although, I suspect a lot of you don't care. And that's the problem right there.
    08-19-2013 10:04 PM
  10. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Newsflash for you.....gays can do what they want with their money too. Including not giving to homophobic business owners that will later use those dollars against them. Don't know why this is even in question. No one has ever said he can't give money to whom he wants. Plus the CFA story is old news. Why are we talking about it again?

    i really don't get anti-gay people. It's like you want freedom to do whatever you want (which you HAVE) but also want to be free from any crictism over the things you say or the people you donate money to. Sorry. It doesn't work one way like that. Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen then.

    As for unsavory types, if you can show where any gays have donated money to politicans from other countries to make "kill the Christian" bills get passed, then I will condem that too. But until that time, I don't beleive we are donating to unsavory types. The person you are conversing with now sure hasn't. You really need to learn what anti-gay organzations do...especially in other countries when they can't get their way here. Although, I suspect a lot of you don't care. And that's the problem right there.
    Its still like I don't get why gay people scream for equal rights until it comes to equal consequences. I laugh at all the white non dance non cool jokes. My question is if gays are bothered by jokes, why don't they complain about the jokes about black males, white males, females etc

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    08-20-2013 12:48 AM
  11. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    I've been following this thread since the shot, and I think now is a good time to make my presence known. Continue with the civil conversation, please. Just coming out of lurking
    08-20-2013 01:01 AM
  12. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Its still like I don't get why gay people scream for equal rights until it comes to equal consequences. I laugh at all the white non dance non cool jokes. My question is if gays are bothered by jokes, why don't they complain about the jokes about black males, white males, females etc

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    It's interesting that while I bring up important and literally Iife and death matters, your response is to focus on jokes. Wow. Really? That's what you think is important? People of all sorts get offended. i can find Jews that get upset over Jewish jokes. i could find women that get upset over female jokes. i could find old people upset over old people jokes. No one group is a monolith. We all don't think the same way.

    However, discrimination is no laughing matter. Viloence and bigotry are not funny either.
    08-20-2013 04:53 PM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    It's interesting that while I bring up important and literally Iife and death matters, your response is to focus on jokes. Wow. Really? That's what you think is important? People of all sorts get offended. i can find Jews that get upset over Jewish jokes. i could find women that get upset over female jokes. i could find old people upset over old people jokes. No one group is a monolith. We all don't think the same way.

    However, discrimination is no laughing matter. Viloence and bigotry are not funny either.
    Something important to you can be completely frivolous to other people. Self-righteousness is a big turn off. So is being so easily offended. Little children get easily offended. Adults should be much stronger. Sad to say, that is not the case these days. These days, people get offended when it's partly cloudy when it was supposed to be partly sunny.

    smh

    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    08-20-2013 05:19 PM
  14. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Something important to you can be completely frivolous to other people. Self-righteousness is a big turn off. So is being so easily offended. Little children get easily offended. Adults should be much stronger. Sad to say, that is not the case these days. These days, people get offended when it's partly cloudy when it was supposed to be partly sunny.

    smh

    It is pretty, for lack of a better word, offensive to be told that as an adult, you should be "stronger" or "not be so easily offended." That whole statement is pretty contradicting. As you said, what is important to one is not important to another. What is offensive to one, is not offensive to another.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    08-20-2013 06:16 PM
  15. llamabreath's Avatar
    It is pretty, for lack of a better word, offensive to be told that as an adult, you should be "stronger" or "not be so easily offended." That whole statement is pretty contradicting. As you said, what is important to one is not important to another. What is offensive to one, is not offensive to another.
    What the blank are you saying?

    08-20-2013 06:32 PM
  16. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Something important to you can be completely frivolous to other people.
    Little children get easily offended. Adults should be much stronger.
    It is ok to find something unimportant that someone else finds important.

    It is not ok to be offended by something that someone else does not find offensive?

    Everyone has their own opinions, likes, and dislikes. Telling someone else that they can't or "shouldn't" be offended is like telling someone that they should or should not find something important. We are all free to be offended by whatever we like. If you don't agree with it, that's your right. Same as they have their right to be offended by it. You cant tote your right to disagree and then lessen their right to be offended.
    08-20-2013 06:39 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    If you don't agree with it, that's your right. Same as they have their right to be offended by it. You cant tote your right to disagree and then lessen their right to be offended.
    So if it's my right, then what's your problem?

    08-20-2013 06:50 PM
  18. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    So if it's my right, then what's your problem?

    Note last sentence.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    08-20-2013 06:52 PM
  19. Oofa's Avatar
    Something important to you can be completely frivolous to other people. Self-righteousness is a big turn off. So is being so easily offended. Little children get easily offended. Adults should be much stronger. Sad to say, that is not the case these days. These days, people get offended when it's partly cloudy when it was supposed to be partly sunny.

    smh

    Are you saying that anyone offended by the use of "the N word" or any derogatory term is easily offended and should be stronger? I don't get your "little children get easily offended. Adults should be much stronger" line. Any reasonable, mature, intelligent adult will be much more easily offended than any child. Adults can read between the lines much better than children. There is a gigantic difference between self righteousness that could be considered "a big turn off" and a social class having a reaction and demanding limits because of having been oppressed by a society that claimed you deserved it.
    08-20-2013 06:54 PM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    Note last sentence.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    The last sentence is an opinion.

    08-20-2013 06:54 PM
  21. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    The last sentence is an opinion.

    Then so is this.

    Self-righteousness is a big turn off. So is being so easily offended. Little children get easily offended. Adults should be much stronger.
    We shouldn't all have to run around posting IMHO after every post. If it bothers you that I didn't post it as an opinion, wouldnt you too fall under your "easily offended" category?
    GadgetGator likes this.
    08-20-2013 06:58 PM
  22. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    It turned.

    Closed
    HelloNNNewman likes this.
    08-20-2013 07:00 PM
  23. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I believe several members raised this point in the DOMA thread awhile back.


    It Begins: Pedophiles Call for Same Rights as Homosexuals « Pat Dollard
    11-20-2013 02:09 PM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I believe several members raised this point in the DOMA thread awhile back.


    It Begins: Pedophiles Call for Same Rights as Homosexuals « Pat Dollard
    Sex with a minor isn't the same as sex with a consenting adult.

    I also wonder if this was the same thought process that racists and bigots had when women's rights were passed. "I wonder who will want rights next if we let women have them.". See where I'm going with this?
    benhmadison likes this.
    11-20-2013 02:21 PM
  25. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Sex with a minor isn't the same as sex with a consenting adult.

    I also wonder if this was the same thought process that racists and bigots had when women's rights were passed. "I wonder who will want rights next if we let women have them.". See where I'm going with this?
    While I agree with you, anyone that didn't see this coming is either blind or stupid.

    When you open us the definition of anything(in this case marriage), all the sub groups related fight for themselves and morals and rights become confused. For instance, who is to say polygamy is wrong? Who is to say people that want to marry their siblings should be denied the right to? It becomes a moral cluster and a big mess.

    Society opened this can of worms. It's time to sit back and watch **** be slung around.
    11-20-2013 05:22 PM
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