06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    Conservative doesn't mean the same thing to me as it does to mainstream, but the ultra-right wing (think globally and historically, not in the US mainstream), where the value set is ultra-adherence to traditional or fundamentalist mentalities of control. Just like the Taliban is a form of the ultra-right wing of Arab muslim political movements, this guy represents that ideology mixed heavily with an ultra-right black panther-esque flavor. The Taliban, Saddam Hussein, Iran, etc. these are all ultra-right wing political forces. Right wing in this sense does not mean "republican" or anything like that. These guys make fundamentalist Christian republicans look like libertarian hippies.

    So, yes, he is on the far, far right of the political spectrum, but in the most regressive of senses, not conservative. And the traditional American conservative has very little to nothing in common with these ultra-right factions, but yes, conservatives can be racist if they want to and they can be Islamic if they want to. It's just a completely different connotation that applies to the broader global spectrum.

    A good example of the spectrum is North and South Korea. North Korea is technically a mostly socialist type of government, but their ruling class practices the extreme right wing form of government in their execution of control. South Koreans are democratic, far more liberal and represent the moderates and left wing of the Korean peninsula. It's not left and extreme left, it's center left and ultra right. It may seem weird to think of communism and right wing together, but that's exactly what it is. It's not communism as a system of equalizing the market, but "communism" in the form of controlling the people in a mostly state owned and completely state controlled environment.

    The details of the political spectrum do not form a two dimensional line, but a three dimensional matrix that portrays social, economic and political freedom/control. I don't agree 100% with this chart, but it's the basic idea:

    http://l.yimg.com/ck/image/A1960/196035/300_196035.gif

    As you can see, one can easily move away from libertarian ideals without becoming more liberal and on a cultural scale, a society reaches a working balance of ability to exercise social, economical and political freedoms. The Ultra Right Wing doesn't describe the Tea Party, but the authoritarian edge of the right wing. The Tea Party, sans corporate leadership, would be much closer to the libertarian edge of the right side of the spectrum.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You guys are thinking of this in CNN/Fox terms, not in political science terms. I think that my post indicated that he supported Obama in 2008 because he's a racist, and stopped supporting him because he's a racist that didn't get his way with his first attempt. Right Wing doesn't mean Ron Paul, necessarily or if it does, that doesn't describe the Ultra Right at all.

    One hour of research into Farrakhan's actual principles and teachings will show how militantly ultra right wing his beliefs are. Again, take it in the full spectrum context, not the US Congressional context. Keep in mind, the vast majority of American's are somewhere inside that square in the center, typically shying away from the bottom left. The three of us are probably all right around 60,60,70.

    I have yet to read the entire post (had to take a bit of a break ) but when you go all "3D chart", you have to thank the post even if you don't agree with it..... I'll go take a quick coffee break and see if I "like" it.....


    I did go ahead and attach a "like" to it, but will say this about the part I placed in Bold, it's easy to say that it has nothing in common because those other factions are very much hated by a large population of the world. But I'm willing to bet that if you ask the other 2 factions, they'd say the same thing about our form of conservatives and the other. When I think of conservative groups around the world, I think of entities that are perfectly fine with rank and file type policies, they are perfectly fine with the status quo if you will.

    And just to add maybe a 4th group (no I'm not going to go all 4-D on your chart ) let me ask you this, how would you classify the Empire (Star Wars) and the Rebel Alliance?
    12-27-2013 01:51 PM
  2. llamabreath's Avatar
    It's not the one and only, you better Google that. Didn't you say you're in Georgia now? Haven't you heard of the Atlanta Olympic Game Bombings? I think about 200 people were injured.
    Of course. I was watching it on T.V. when it happened. What a far-reaching, well-planned out operation this was, hmm?

    What terror organization did he belong to again? Was it the Al-Qaeda offshoot of the Brotherhood of Baseball-cap wearing can of Bud Light Drinkers?



    I think signatures are stupid.
    12-27-2013 02:06 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    Is that some sort of jab at me? And no, I was told it prior to my first deployment to Afghanistan.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on Verizon Wireless, America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuse any errors.
    That's kind of a scary thought, and might explain some of the issues we've had with other countries. Just something for you to consider, many world leaders in the past have used the Bible to justify mass killing. And as previously mentioned, many holy books have been manipulated several times over to justify someone's agenda. The best weapon we have against tyranny is education. I myself can use a lesson in Muslim cultures, but I remember seeing something about how our military groups go do raids (and do raids on the incorrect homes at times), and man handle some of the women, the soldier merely touching a woman is considered very offensive in the Muslim world.
    12-27-2013 02:27 PM
  4. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    So that's your interpretation correct? or are you saying it says that in black & white, Muslims are to kill infidels, no provocation is needed?
    In black and white, straight from the book that way

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    12-27-2013 02:34 PM
  5. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Anyone who uses religion to justify their prejudice is a bigot, and would do well to look to take a look at their own privilege before passing judgment.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    12-27-2013 02:53 PM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    Anyone who uses religion to justify their prejudice is a bigot, and would do well to look to take a look at their own privilege before passing judgment.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    You're starting to sound like Jesse Jackson. What privilege are you talking about?



    I think signatures are stupid.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    12-27-2013 03:57 PM
  7. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    There are bad Christians like bad Muslims. There are; however, alot more bad muslims to good muslim ratio than bad/ good christians. But what I can't understand for the life of me is how a liberal will take up for Islam and criticize Christianity in the same breath. I've never heard of Christians killing their daughters for being raped, or circumsizing their daughters.

    Oh wait, its a group of voters. Never mind.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    12-27-2013 03:58 PM
  8. msndrstood's Avatar
    For all of you who use the word "liberal' in derogatory terms, here's a little info for you on the term itself.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/d...ral+(politics)

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri and nolittdroid like this.
    12-27-2013 04:08 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    For all of you who use the word "liberal' in derogatory terms, here's a little info for you on the term itself.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/d...ral+(politics)

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    From your link:

    liberalism *(lbr--lzm, lbr-)
    n.
    1. The state or quality of being liberal.
    2.
    a. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.
    b. often Liberalism The tenets or policies of a Liberal party.
    3. An economic theory in favor of laissez-faire, the free market, and the gold standard.


    --- This had to have been written by a Liberal, accidentally describing LIBERTARIANS (especially the laissez-faire part).



    I think signatures are stupid.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:13 PM
  10. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    From your link:

    liberalism *(lbr--lzm, lbr-)
    n.
    1. The state or quality of being liberal.
    2.
    a. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.

    --- This had to have been written by a Liberal, accidentally describing LIBERTARIANS.



    I think signatures are stupid.
    You're right. I'll have to start saying democrats.

    I always thought growing up that liberals wanted freedoms with not a lot of government. I pretty much considered myself one. Lol

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:15 PM
  11. msndrstood's Avatar
    Or maybe you've had it wrong all along.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:15 PM
  12. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    For all of you who use the word "liberal' in derogatory terms, here's a little info for you on the term itself.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/d...ral+(politics)

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Lol. Ehh nevermind

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:16 PM
  13. msndrstood's Avatar
    Lol. Ehh nevermind

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Preconceived notions.

    Btw, do any of you guys actually know any 'liberals' in real life? Just curious.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:20 PM
  14. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Or maybe you've had it wrong all along.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Lol yeah, because who doesn't like government. They run everything perfect ie healthcare, post office, education etc.,

    Seriously though. Every time a law is passed we lose a freedom.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:31 PM
  15. likeag8's Avatar
    I don't know that's what it says, I was just taught that in a cultural learning class prior to my first deployment to Afghanistan. However, if what you post is true then why do Muslims kill people in the name of allah?
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on Verizon Wireless, America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuse any errors.
    those classes were such a bore!
    My paranoia manifested itself when i watched some of my coworkers and thousands of other innocent people that had been sipping their morning coffee get slaughtered with passenger jets flying into their office towers purposefully, leaving them to take the suddenly horrifying choice of whether to jump 110 stories from the top of a skyscraper or to just burn alive.



    I think signatures are stupid.
    it’s hard to believe that i was in high school at the time

    My AFSC was Radio Frequency Transmission Systems, which now falls under the Three Delta field. I later changed over to airborne communications.
    former 1A751 here then they changed the code to 1A951 while i was still active. nice to see someone else who served on here.
    12-27-2013 04:51 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    Or maybe, laws are made to right a wrong. What a concept.

    I think it wouldn't matter what a liberal does, you guys would find something wrong about it. As evidenced by the Pope's recent comments on capitalism and the 'conservative' backlash and bashing. As evidenced by anything and everything a liberal does or tries to do to make life better for someone else that doesn't include a business or corporation.

    I can go on and on about such things but I really don't have the strength or energy today. So, I'll continue lurking for the amusement value.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri likes this.
    12-27-2013 04:53 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    1- I think it wouldn't matter what a liberal does, you guys would find something wrong.
    2- So, I'll continue lurking for the amusement value.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    1- And vice-versa.

    2- Lurkers are people too.



    I think signatures are stupid.
    12-27-2013 04:56 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    I have never said conservatives do not have reasonable ideas on some things, but the far right wing has taken over the conversation to such a point that a rational conversation can't even be started. The conversation has to start from a non confrontational point.
    12-27-2013 05:05 PM
  19. llamabreath's Avatar
    I have never said conservatives do not have reasonable ideas on some things, but the far right wing has taken over the conversation to such a point that a rational conversation can't even be started. The conversation has to start from a non confrontational point.
    People can't even discuss Android and Apple without being confrontational. What makes you think that discussing politics would be any better?



    I think signatures are stupid.
    Aquila likes this.
    12-27-2013 05:11 PM
  20. msndrstood's Avatar
    So there is never too be a conversation at all? What's the point of anything?

    There are countries that are able to have a happy productive society, what is it about us that makes it so difficult?

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Aquila likes this.
    12-27-2013 05:19 PM
  21. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Or maybe, laws are made to right a wrong. What a concept.

    I think it wouldn't matter what a liberal does, you guys would find something wrong about it. As evidenced by the Pope's recent comments on capitalism and the 'conservative' backlash and bashing. As evidenced by anything and everything a liberal does or tries to do to make life better for someone else that doesn't include a business or corporation.

    I can go on and on about such things but I really don't have the strength or energy today. So, I'll continue lurking for the amusement value.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    I guess my problems with new laws is instead of writing new ones, why not rewrite the old ones that aren't working? As far as businesses, I don't mind a little restriction, but not to the point where they shut doors and move overseas.

    Question, will you support obamacare if it does indeed bail out insurance companies?

    I am against all of the bailouts, including the one gwb did.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Aquila likes this.
    12-27-2013 05:28 PM
  22. llamabreath's Avatar
    So there is never too be a conversation at all? What's the point of anything?

    There are countries that are able to have a happy productive society, what is it about us that makes it so difficult?

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Our country is more divided now, than it has been for many many years. Divided we fall.

    Oh wait!
    I thought Obama ran on the premise AND promise that he would rectify that.

    Heh. Yeah, right.



    I think signatures are stupid.
    12-27-2013 05:29 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    I have never said conservatives do not have reasonable ideas on some things, but the far right wing has taken over the conversation to such a point that a rational conversation can't even be started. The conversation has to start from a non confrontational point.
    I'd generally object to the idea that the far right wing has taken over conservative politics. Two reasons.

    One, the far right describes a form of extremism that the US either doesn't have, or doesn't have in sufficient quantities to matter. The American political atmosphere is becoming more popularly polarized, but it's not really that much more polarized than it was throughout the 20th century. It's a lot easier now for people without any value add insight to speak to a national/international audience. Far right wing describes Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, etc. An extreme, as in people are consistently murdered for stepping out of line, or for crimes that generally aren't that big of a deal elsewhere, or just because... form of totalitarian society usually run by a strong military and/or secret police/spy network and a dictator or ruling family. If on a scale from 0 to 100 of the amount of scary the right wing of American politics is compared to the far right wing, far right is about a 95, American "conservatives" are about a 4.

    Two, mainstream conservatives and mainstream liberals have more in common than they think. The issue from my perspective is one of propaganda. It's no accident that almost 100% of the people elected to national offices do so with little to no regard for their actual constituents, but with their customers (ie, those bribing them) in mind. Things we've seen in the past decade, the tea party, the occupy movement, a push for libertarian ideals to blend with a more progressive social interaction are all logical reactions to what is actually wrong, the merging of the corporate world with government. This is a result of money running our political process, rather than the people working towards their own self promotion and self preservation. The idiocy we see on the national political stage is the result of propaganda farming and has very little to do with the actual relationships of power. I'm sure we've all heard of divide, conquer, distract and destroy.

    Both of those are without touching the warped commonly understood and contextually inaccurate perceptions of what "conservative" and "liberal" mean, tying them to a two party system when neither party represents real conservatives or real liberals in any way. Political theory holds that roughly 70-80% are going to fall in the "moderate" camp. So why are 80-90% of politicians in the, "couldn't care less about the average person as long as the new corporate gods get what they paid for" camp?
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    12-27-2013 05:31 PM
  24. msndrstood's Avatar
    Our country is more divided now, than it has been for many many years. Divided we fall.

    Oh wait!
    I thought Obama ran on the premise AND promise that he would rectify that.

    Heh. Yeah, right.



    I think signatures are stupid.
    Is that any way to start the conversation? ::hands on hips::

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Aquila likes this.
    12-27-2013 05:32 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Question, will you support obamacare if it does indeed bail out insurance companies?
    Isn't that the point of the legislation? Insurance companies were on board with this plan for nearly 40 years before it was signed. They're a little grumpy now because of all the shifting expectations and deadlines, but overall this is the biggest windfall they could ever dream of. They'll make out like bandits until the bubble collapses, then they'll be insulated while taxpayers cover the difference and then they'll own the new system too.
    12-27-2013 05:34 PM
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