06-30-2014 01:17 AM
1,813 ... 5758596061 ...
tools
  1. llamabreath's Avatar
    You aren't seeing the dividing lines.
    Would that take away from what i just said?



    I think signatures are stupid.
    12-28-2013 06:16 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    I like robots. Robots are logical, rational, practical. We could use some logic.
    12-28-2013 06:21 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    I know what I'm about to say will sound like I'm saying the rich are taxed too much, but in a way, they are. Hear me out on this...

    When it comes to taxes and regulations, who's the people usually supporting increasing them on themselves? The rich and big businesses. They can more easily absorb those additional costs, where as the people on the lower end of the scale that are also affected can't. That pushes those lower classes down and/or out of business while the rich gain market share, have staff dedicated to better "work the system", and make use of other tax loopholes that lower classes can't justify.

    Case in point from my trucking industry. The government recent passed a rule increasing the security bond on brokers (the people and businesses that get load assignments to small trucking companies). The bond was used to cover freight charges if the broker couldn't pay for some reason, and was raised from $10k to $75k under the guise of weeding out the bad brokers. The near immediate effect was a loss of thousands of small business broker companies and many trucking companies that broker out extra loads to help satisfy their customer demands. They can't justify having such a high bond due to the low business they turned over.

    But the big brokerage firms supported the move. They can churn $75k in bills in just a few minutes. That increase in the bond isn't even a drop in the bucket for them, and will cover next to nothing should one of them go out of business. There's an argument to be made that the bond shouldn't be required or at least tied to their revenues, but the point is big business lobbied for increased regulation and expense on themselves and the result is less of the small businesses everyone likes to promote while they take up that market share and flourish.

    So I say tax businesses and the rich less because those taxes also affect the little guy and affect them even more. Then again, I'm a Fair Tax supporter partly for that reason. Zero business taxes and severely hinders big business lobbying power.
    What about taxing businesses less and rich more?

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    12-28-2013 06:25 PM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    I know what I'm about to say will sound like I'm saying the rich are taxed too much, but in a way, they are. Hear me out on this...

    When it comes to taxes and regulations, who's the people usually supporting increasing them on themselves? The rich and big businesses. They can more easily absorb those additional costs, where as the people on the lower end of the scale that are also affected can't. That pushes those lower classes down and/or out of business while the rich gain market share, have staff dedicated to better "work the system", and make use of other tax loopholes that lower classes can't justify.

    Case in point from my trucking industry. The government recent passed a rule increasing the security bond on brokers (the people and businesses that get load assignments to small trucking companies). The bond was used to cover freight charges if the broker couldn't pay for some reason, and was raised from $10k to $75k under the guise of weeding out the bad brokers. The near immediate effect was a loss of thousands of small business broker companies and many trucking companies that broker out extra loads to help satisfy their customer demands. They can't justify having such a high bond due to the low business they turned over.

    But the big brokerage firms supported the move. They can churn $75k in bills in just a few minutes. That increase in the bond isn't even a drop in the bucket for them, and will cover next to nothing should one of them go out of business. There's an argument to be made that the bond shouldn't be required or at least tied to their revenues, but the point is big business lobbied for increased regulation and expense on themselves and the result is less of the small businesses everyone likes to promote while they take up that market share and flourish.

    So I say tax businesses and the rich less because those taxes also affect the little guy and affect them even more. Then again, I'm a Fair Tax supporter partly for that reason. Zero business taxes and severely hinders big business lobbying power.
    We tend to lump small business in with "rich" and I'm not sure why we think the two are the same. Take Capital Gains for instance. Money that someone makes from their money "working". I won't get into other markets, but lets say your money sits in a bank where it earns a higher yield than everyone else's money because you have more of it and get a better rate. The amount of money your money earns is taxed LESS than someone that's putting in a solid 8 hour day doing work. Why do we tax that money more than the money that someone is making by doing an honest day's work? It seems kind of backwards to me.

    Also, Elizabeth Warren has asked many times over, why is it that we charge a higher interest rate on college students than we charge on banks? The very banks that brought us to the edge of collapse back in 2008, why are they still enjoying 0% interest loans but for some reason our college students have to pay more? The banks turn around and loan the money out at ridiculous interest rates and yet student loans (that can't be written off via bankruptcy btw) are higher.

    I will agree with you in one regard, special interests are gutting America.
    12-28-2013 06:30 PM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    Some things are undeniably true.

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    I only said NothingIsTrue because you quoted something from him and said "this is true".



    I think signatures are stupid.
    12-28-2013 06:39 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    What about taxing businesses less and rich more?

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    I say tax businesses zero and let the individual decide how much tax they want to pay.
    We tend to lump small business in with "rich" and I'm not sure why we think the two are the same. Take Capital Gains for instance. Money that someone makes from their money "working". I won't get into other markets, but lets say your money sits in a bank where it earns a higher yield than everyone else's money because you have more of it and get a better rate. The amount of money your money earns is taxed LESS than someone that's putting in a solid 8 hour day doing work. Why do we tax that money more than the money that someone is making by doing an honest day's work? It seems kind of backwards to me.

    Also, Elizabeth Warren has asked many times over, why is it that we charge a higher interest rate on college students than we charge on banks? The very banks that brought us to the edge of collapse back in 2008, why are they still enjoying 0% interest loans but for some reason our college students have to pay more? The banks turn around and loan the money out at ridiculous interest rates and yet student loans (that can't be written off via bankruptcy btw) are higher.

    I will agree with you in one regard, special interests are gutting America.
    I tried to word my post in such a way as to be comparing rich/big business to non-rich/small business. That was the intent, anyway. Though, much like my answer above, wipe out every income tax including things like capital gains tax and put that power back to the people. Why is it like it is today? Government.

    In regards to college, too much emphasis is put on going all out and going over your head in debt to attend. It's not that hard to go through debt free, or at least minimal debt. And think about it. We're loaning tens of thousands to each student to attend, with no collateral, and no promise they will be able to pay it back after or even complete schooling. That's a huge risk, so it's no surprise the interest rates are so high.
    12-28-2013 06:51 PM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    I only said NothingIsTrue because you quoted something from him and said "this is true".



    I think signatures are stupid.
    Everything is Permitted.
    A895 likes this.
    12-28-2013 06:51 PM
  8. A895's Avatar
    I only said NothingIsTrue because you quoted something from him and said "this is true".



    I think signatures are stupid.
    I know, I was keeping the joke going.

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    12-28-2013 06:55 PM
  9. Aquila's Avatar
    Everything is Permitted.
    Except in the forums. You still have to be nice to each other. I'm the most strict moderator.
    12-28-2013 07:01 PM
  10. A895's Avatar
    I say tax businesses zero and let the individual decide how much tax they want to pay.

    I tried to word my post in such a way as to be comparing rich/big business to non-rich/small business. That was the intent, anyway. Though, much like my answer above, wipe out every income tax including things like capital gains tax and put that power back to the people. Why is it like it is today? Government.

    In regards to college, too much emphasis is put on going all out and going over your head in debt to attend. It's not that hard to go through debt free, or at least minimal debt. And think about it. We're loaning tens of thousands to each student to attend, with no collateral, and no promise they will be able to pay it back after or even complete schooling. That's a huge risk, so it's no surprise the interest rates are so high.
    Hell no to letting people decide how to pay their taxes. If it was up to people they wouldn't pay anything. Have some SET tax rates and stick to them. Bending over for every tom **** and harry that complains is stupid. Tax small businesses less, rich more, and stop giving banks breaks. Let college loans be less interest wise as well. President always tries to appease everyone which is why there are some who say he does nothing but he does. He needs to be brave and stand his ground and stop trying to appease everybody.

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    msndrstood likes this.
    12-28-2013 07:01 PM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    Except in the forums. You still have to be nice to each other. I'm the most strict moderator.
    What if we put a big smile after insults, like they do here in the South?



    I think signatures are stupid.
    12-28-2013 07:10 PM
  12. anon8126715's Avatar
    In regards to college, too much emphasis is put on going all out and going over your head in debt to attend. It's not that hard to go through debt free, or at least minimal debt. And think about it. We're loaning tens of thousands to each student to attend, with no collateral, and no promise they will be able to pay it back after or even complete schooling. That's a huge risk, so it's no surprise the interest rates are so high.
    Considering how far behind we are to the other major industrialized nations in regards to education, do you really want to give them an even bigger lead? Some countries even pay for their students' education past what the U.S. pays. If a student goes to school to become an Engineer instead of lets say a lower paid laborer, he will be taxed a little more and will be a more productive member of society. That in itself should be a big enough reason to support education. If all we have in this country is the super wealthy that have whittled down their taxes, and a labor force that doesn't make enough money to tax effectively, then we're left with a rotted out infrastructure of a country that won't be able to sustain itself in the future. I say train the next generation of innovators here and lets make sure that their success means success for the entire nation, not just the 1% that have no problem outsourcing talent to other developing nations.
    12-28-2013 07:10 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    I'm too strict to allow humor. Someone could get offended.

    On a serious note, this thread really is focusing on the "etc" in the title, and not in the "and so on" sense, but more of in the "miscellaneous" sense.
    We've got religion, we've got politics, we've got ducks, TV, taxes, racism, assassins, robots.... and no reported posts, temper tatrums or other nonsese. Keep up the good work.
    12-28-2013 07:19 PM
  14. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Considering how far behind we are to the other major industrialized nations in regards to education, do you really want to give them an even bigger lead? Some countries even pay for their students' education past what the U.S. pays. If a student goes to school to become an Engineer instead of lets say a lower paid laborer, he will be taxed a little more and will be a more productive member of society. That in itself should be a big enough reason to support education. If all we have in this country is the super wealthy that have whittled down their taxes, and a labor force that doesn't make enough money to tax effectively, then we're left with a rotted out infrastructure of a country that won't be able to sustain itself in the future. I say train the next generation of innovators here and lets make sure that their success means success for the entire nation, not just the 1% that have no problem outsourcing talent to other developing nations.
    I never said I don't support education. There's no doubt it's important, but there are better ways to go about it. I don't buy in to the belief that everyone belongs in college and should go into stupidly deep debt to do so. Everyone just assumes once out of college that they will have a high paying job, which isn't the case. Let's say student loans weren't allowed and students were required to work their way through or earn scholarships. Don't you think those students that get in would take college more seriously? The fact we even have lists like the top party colleges in the U.S. is a bigger shame on higher education here than most anything in my opinion.
    12-28-2013 07:41 PM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Hell no to letting people decide how to pay their taxes. If it was up to people they wouldn't pay anything.
    I was expecting someone to have this sort of reaction, which is why I worded it that way. Now that I've got your attention, it's not quite as likely as it sounds.

    Keeping short and sweet, the Fair Tax would only tax new items and services, not used. In theory it's possible to pay little tax, but not likely you'll see many people actively making that choice in thy grand scheme of things. Lower classes are more likely to buy used anyway and rich buy new for status and lifestyle, with a sliding scale in between.
    12-28-2013 07:41 PM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    I was expecting someone to have this sort of reaction, which is why I worded it that way. Now that I've got your attention, it's not quite as likely as it sounds.

    Keeping short and sweet, the Fair Tax would only tax new items and services, not used. In theory it's possible to pay little tax, but not likely you'll see many people actively making that choice in thy grand scheme of things. Lower classes are more likely to buy used anyway and rich buy new for status and lifestyle, with a sliding scale in between.
    Just curious, are they under the impression that people are buying used things now in massive quantities? As in, a person is buying nearly everything that they purchase second hand? I know some people buy things on e-bay, amazon or swappa and some of that is used, but most of it is from retailers selling new from bulk. The main stores people use, Target, Wal-Mart, etc don't carry used items that I'm aware of. Is the expectation that people will shop at consignment shops instead of Kohls? (or wherever) I don't know if it's me or what, but I don't know anyone that buys a substantial portion of their products used. A few people visit garage sales, but that's more of a hobby than a shopping trip.
    12-28-2013 08:30 PM
  17. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Just curious, are they under the impression that people are buying used things now in massive quantities? As in, a person is buying nearly everything that they purchase second hand? I know some people buy things on e-bay, amazon or swappa and some of that is used, but most of it is from retailers selling new from bulk. The main stores people use, Target, Wal-Mart, etc don't carry used items that I'm aware of. Is the expectation that people will shop at consignment shops instead of Kohls? (or wherever) I don't know if it's me or what, but I don't know anyone that buys a substantial portion of their products used. A few people visit garage sales, but that's more of a hobby than a shopping trip.
    I'm sure they did account for some amount of used purchases, given the amount of time put into the idea. Like I said, it's theoretically possible to get away with paying little to no tax, and the creators surely had to know and account for this on some level. Selling/trading used goods is fairly big right now already, usually via groups on Facebook and such, but you're right that the majority of purchases will be new. My guess is the sliding scale idea I already mentioned is going to be by and large the most common purchase pattern, with the exception of the relative few purposely opting to buy used to avoid the tax.
    12-28-2013 09:15 PM
  18. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Do you think there aren't any inequities in society today? Women Still Earned 77 Cents On Men's Dollar In 2012: Report
    People think inequities are slanted one way, this just isn't true.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    12-28-2013 09:19 PM
  19. A895's Avatar
    I'm sure they did account for some amount of used purchases, given the amount of time put into the idea. Like I said, it's theoretically possible to get away with paying little to no tax, and the creators surely had to know and account for this on some level. Selling/trading used goods is fairly big right now already, usually via groups on Facebook and such, but you're right that the majority of purchases will be new. My guess is the sliding scale idea I already mentioned is going to be by and large the most common purchase pattern, with the exception of the relative few purposely opting to buy used to avoid the tax.
    I'm sorry but is that not similar to what we have now. I pay little to no taxes on anything I buy on eBay or amazon. I pay taxes for all the new stuff I buy, what's the big difference?

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    12-28-2013 09:38 PM
  20. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I'm sorry but is that not similar to what we have now. I pay little to no taxes on anything I buy on eBay or amazon. I pay taxes for all the new stuff I buy, what's the big difference?

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    Two things. One, right now internet purchases have no sales tax unless the company has a physical location in your state and then it's just state sales tax regardless of condition. Two, under the Fair Tax, ALL online purchases fall under the new/used stipulations for the new national sales tax.
    12-28-2013 09:59 PM
  21. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Its always amazing to me that everyone's attitude is someone should pay more, just not me. The rich have became the boogeyman everyone is afraid of. Let me ask this. How do you measure rich? We are rich compared to the rest of the world. If you were rich, to your standard, you wouldnt want to pay more. And regardless of popular belief, not every rich person is evil.

    I watched a reporter interview college kids at a campus and asked them if rich should give more money. They say yes. Then they asked what kind of grades they had, they said A's. Then the interviewer asked if they would donate their grades to people that were making bad grades. All said no, I earned it. The simple truth is, is no one knows how someone became rich or how hard they've worked for it.

    When people are paying half of their paychecks to give their fair share and its still not enough from people paying little to nothing, something needs done. A percentage effects everyone the same.


    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    plumbrich likes this.
    12-28-2013 10:07 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    Its always amazing to me that everyone's attitude is someone should pay more, just not me. The rich have became the boogeyman everyone is afraid of. Let me ask this. How do you measure rich? We are rich compared to the rest of the world. If you were rich, to your standard, you wouldnt want to pay more. And regardless of popular belief, not every rich person is evil.

    I watched a reporter interview college kids at a campus and asked them if rich should give more money. They say yes. Then they asked what kind of grades they had, they said A's. Then the interviewer asked if they would donate their grades to people that were making bad grades. All said no, I earned it. The simple truth is, is no one knows how someone became rich or how hard they've worked for it.

    When people are paying half of their paychecks to give their fair share and its still not enough from people paying little to nothing, something needs done. A percentage effects everyone the same.


    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    If you are making over $500000 then you are rich. You can't take $100000-$150000 of that and pay taxes? That's pretty fair considering you are rich. Also grades and money are two different things. Money you can actually use and buy stuff with grades is just there to move you up through school and out into the world, which you have to pay for stuff with money for.

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    12-28-2013 10:18 PM
  23. A895's Avatar
    Two things. One, right now internet purchases have no sales tax unless the company has a physical location in your state and then it's just state sales tax regardless of condition. Two, under the Fair Tax, ALL online purchases fall under the new/used stipulations for the new national sales tax.
    Hmmm suspicious.

    Posted Via VZW Moto X on the Android Central App
    12-28-2013 10:19 PM
  24. anon8126715's Avatar
    People think inequities are slanted one way, this just isn't true.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    You're right. Take this random picture I found on the internet of the most powerful people in United States history. I see no reason why anyone would think the inequities are slanted one way.... /sarcasm

    DOMA and Prop 8 fall-presidents-united-states-3.jpg
    palandri likes this.
    12-28-2013 10:22 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    A percentage effects everyone the same.
    I think just about everyone who sees a need to have some sort of taxes agrees it should be a percentage, just ... a percentage of what? A percentage of total income, of wages (not investments), of disposable income, of expenses, 500% of your age minus 100% of the number of years you went to college?

    A flat tax is a percentage of total income and obviously impacts people regressively, though not as regressively as a flat tax on wages only. A progressive tax tries to tax based on disposable income measured logrithmically and is probably the most complicated idea, which we have now. Sales tax is on expenses only is the most regressive type of tax possible, however as Mooncatt has pointed out in a couple of threads, the Fair Tax uses sales tax with several mitigating factors to try to make it more fair.

    Exactly what should be taxed to be most fair is a pretty huge economic philosophy debate, the how much is easy to figure out once you have the methodology, because it just has to be $.01 more than your projected exenses net inflation.... Only the progressive plan needs brackets, so it could have many levers, but all of the other plans are two to three variables and are a breeze to solve.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    12-28-2013 10:22 PM
1,813 ... 5758596061 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Automatic time zone and date/clock are wrong
    By ajua in forum HTC One M7
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 07-04-2018, 01:12 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-05-2013, 10:34 AM
  3. Using the TMobile Note 2 in Asia (not Japan & Korea) and Europe for 3G internet
    By Internet_Tough_Guy in forum T-Mobile Galaxy Note 2
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  4. Icon question and SMS question
    By JT Peters in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-26-2013, 02:55 PM
  5. USA today review and water damage...
    By quietlybrilliant in forum Samsung Galaxy S4 Active
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-26-2013, 11:13 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD