06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. jdbii's Avatar
    I honestly do not know why this issue of choice keeps coming up in every single debate about this subject. Anti-gay people grasping at straws? It's real red herring and entirely irrelevant to the subject of marriage or rights. You just don't chose whom you are attracted to or whom you love. The mere suggestion that someone does runs counter to logic and common sense. The real irony here is that most anti-gay people are anti-gay out of some sort of religious belief which is definitely something that is a choice. Yet, that choice is still protected under the law. So right there that shoots down any argument that gay people should not have the same legal rights because they might "choose" a different path.
    Excellent points and I wholeheartedly agree. This post of yours got me thinking and I had to silently ask myself why do I always say when I talk about gay rights "people shouldn't be discriminated against for something they have no control over." I've been saying that for as long as I can remember but the statement is flawed and my goodness it could be interpreted as being sort of stealth-discriminatory? Wouldn't that be one of the reasons why the anti-gay crowd always bring up the choice argument? I mean it infers that if sexuality was choice then it might be okay to deny equality. Not to mention the fact that it is condescending -- I would never say women are entitled to equal pay in the workplace because they had no choice in being women. That is just simply demeaning to say that. I am going to stop referring to "no choice" nor even feel the need to defend against it next time I hear the anti-gay argument that sexuality is a choice.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    06-28-2013 08:27 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    In my opinion, if your religion tells you to hate anyone, because of their race, gender, orientation, income level, education level, number of elbows, eye color, or anything else that is not an offensive action on their part (by this I mean they're attacking you or society, not that you are offended), you should reject it. The same with your politics, your whatever. The idea of anyone being born inferior is a concept that is very dangerous when drawn out to it's obvious conclusions and it's something we need to get over. Tall, short, fat, skinny, brown, red, purple, whatever. People are people. To be clear: Rejecting religion is not the same thing as rejecting God. It's rejecting the ignorance of people and their inability to define God for others.
    06-28-2013 08:29 PM
  3. GadgetGator's Avatar
    "According to the Bible" is how I try to live my life. And yes, humans wrote the Bible, but they were inspired by God. Every person on this earth is a sinner, including homosexuals. There has only been one perfect person on earth in history, and that is Jesus Christ.
    Why did God of all things, need a ghost writer? And multiple ones at that? To me that sounds like what they say on TV movies when they say "based on a true story". In other words...there might be a hint of truth in there somewhere, like the names perhaps, but the authors have taken great liberties with the facts in order to make a more interesting story or reflect their own viewpoints. And really per your own words no human is perfect, therefore no text they had a hand in can be perfect either.
    06-28-2013 08:31 PM
  4. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Why did God of all things, need a ghost writer? And multiple ones at that? To me that sounds like what they say on TV movies when they say "based on a true story". In other words...there might be a hint of truth in there somewhere, like the names perhaps, but the authors have taken great liberties with the facts in order to make a more interesting story or reflect their own viewpoints. And really per your own words no human is perfect, therefore no text they had a hand in can be perfect either.
    Not true. The Bible is the inspired word of God. It was given by God to the subjectd he chose to use. The Bible is an instruction book. We don't always apply it perfectly. It is however a question of faith and what you believe.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    06-28-2013 08:55 PM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    Seems like we're off in the weeds and should move half of these comments back to the religion thread. The only point for bringing it up at all, is that it has 0% relevance to legislation.
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-28-2013 08:58 PM
  6. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Not true. The Bible is the inspired word of God. It was given by God to the subjectd he chose to use. The Bible is an instruction book. We don't always apply it perfectly. It is however a question of faith and what you believe.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Just because it is what you believe, does not make it TRUE. Let's remember that everyone has a different belief. I for one don't believe the Bible was inspired by a great being. But that's my personal belief. Doesn't make it right or wrong.

    That being said, why has this become a discussion of religion? Separation of church and state, guys. I understand the desire to want to link the two, but come on.

    Edit: I say this as part of the conversation, not as a moderater.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    06-28-2013 08:59 PM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    I guess I'm confused. More equal treatment under the law can never be a bad thing. What exactly is the problem? Shouldn't this be a celebratory thread, rather than a clash?
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-28-2013 09:13 PM
  8. return_0's Avatar
    I guess I'm confused. More equal treatment under the law can never be a bad thing. What exactly is the problem? Shouldn't this be a celebratory thread, rather than a clash?
    The people who for some reason are offended by more equal treatment are making it a clash. This was originally a celebration thread.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    GadgetGator likes this.
    06-28-2013 09:48 PM
  9. GadgetGator's Avatar
    The people who for some reason are offended by more equal treatment are making it a clash. This was originally a celebration thread.
    That's true. Although the comments here haven't been too bad. Misinformed, but not like the comments I was reading tonight on the Facebook page for National Organization For Marriage (a misnomer if there ever was one). Such hateful vile things posted there tonight. But that's okay. Let them vent and talk about their mathematically impossible Constitutional Amendment that they seem all fired up about, and mistakenly believe they can pass. My attitude towards them is similar to Pelosi's..."Who cares!!!" Besides, I got a wedding to plan!!!
    06-28-2013 11:23 PM
  10. Farish's Avatar
    Time to get back to the truth of the matter.

    06-29-2013 06:27 AM
  11. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    I'm not trying to insult you, I was asking you to clarify what you meant by:



    Because the implication of that statement typically is that the quotas are what drive admissions that would otherwise be denied.

    Of course, both denying or approving an application based on race is racist; but those quotas, while imperfect, are a means of balancing out the racism in the other direction. It's not ideal, but it's way better than the alternative of the previous status quo. Of course, the ideal would be to ignore everyone's race entirely, because it's 100% irrelevant to their qualifications.
    Hey, no problem! I understand that it is hard to "read" meaning when all you're doing is reading what was posted. I didn't mean to upset you there, buddy! All I was saying is that I have seen people not academically qualified to go to universities, but got in based off of a quota. Ideal would be to admit people based on their skills and qualifications, while completely disregarding their gender and race. While that will never happen, it is nice to dream, isn't it? When I got off of active duty and went to college, there were minorities bragging about getting in because they "was black."
    06-29-2013 10:49 AM
  12. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I totally agree that we shouldn't judge others based on their sexual orientation, but to go further, it's not a choice.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Do you remember the day you decided to be heterosexual? Somehow, I doubt it.

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    06-29-2013 10:52 AM
  13. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Not true. The Bible is the inspired word of God. It was given by God to the subjectd he chose to use. The Bible is an instruction book. We don't always apply it perfectly. It is however a question of faith and what you believe.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    There are many of us who do not believe in the word of "God" and believe your choice to practice any kind of religion is your choice.

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    06-29-2013 10:54 AM
  14. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    The marriage licenses say otherwise. Next.



    Please let's keep it on topic. This thread isn't about college admissions which was another court case ruled on earlier. It's about DOMA and Prop 8.
    Actually it was a reply to your first post saying that "How would the minority EVER obtain equality if left up to only others to decide their fate and lot in life?" It is very much on topic, considering what you said.
    And yes, I am aware of the court ruling that non-minorities can be discriminated against when it comes to college admissions.
    06-29-2013 10:56 AM
  15. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    I guess I'm confused. More equal treatment under the law can never be a bad thing. What exactly is the problem? Shouldn't this be a celebratory thread, rather than a clash?
    Well said
    Aquila likes this.
    06-29-2013 10:58 AM
  16. SouthernDroid's Avatar
    In my opinion, if your religion tells you to hate anyone, because of their race, gender, orientation, income level, education level, number of elbows, eye color, or anything else that is not an offensive action on their part (by this I mean they're attacking you or society, not that you are offended), you should reject it. The same with your politics, your whatever. The idea of anyone being born inferior is a concept that is very dangerous when drawn out to it's obvious conclusions and it's something we need to get over. Tall, short, fat, skinny, brown, red, purple, whatever. People are people. To be clear: Rejecting religion is not the same thing as rejecting God. It's rejecting the ignorance of people and their inability to define God for others.
    Not to point fingers, but aren't Muslims taught to hate all non-Muslims?
    06-29-2013 11:02 AM
  17. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I thought no one basically votes in the us. Here it's a $50 fine if you don't. To be honest that's a good motivator.

    About the weed comment, if you have a right to smoke a natural plant I have the right to use a stick (not weed but wood) to smack you over the head with. Last time I checked earth didn't come with a set of instructions how to use it.

    Its funny seeing how conservative some people are.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    You have the right to assault a person because they choose to smoke pot? Are you serious?

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    06-29-2013 11:05 AM
  18. return_0's Avatar
    Do you remember the day you decided to be heterosexual? Somehow, I doubt it.

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    Um... what? That's exactly what I said. It's not a choice.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    06-29-2013 11:13 AM
  19. llamabreath's Avatar
    Do you remember the day you decided to be heterosexual? Somehow, I doubt it.

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    He doesn't remember when he decided to be heterosexual because he was born that way. Who remembers things when they were born?

    All this crap is so damn stupid.
    No wonder the rest of the world laughs at this country.

    None of our spoiled brat society knows what REAL problems are.
    All we're concerned about is the next phone coming out and figuring out some label to label ourselves with, such as pan-sexual, metro-sexual, experimental sexual.... freakin' please, I'm so sick of this BS.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    06-29-2013 11:28 AM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    Have any of you ever ventured outside your cozy little worlds to see what the real world is like? Have you even taken the time to do some Google image searching to see children that are starving so much that their ribs are showing through their tiny little bodies?

    Do any of you have any idea what real problems are? The next phone, with a bigger screen? Faster processor? More gigabytes? Seriously???

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    Wiley_11 likes this.
    06-29-2013 11:42 AM
  21. return_0's Avatar
    Have any of you ever ventured outside your cozy little worlds to see what the real world is like? Have you even taken the time to do some Google image searching to see children that are starving so much that their ribs are showing through their tiny little bodies?

    Do any of you have any idea what real problems are? The next phone, with a bigger screen? Faster processor? More gigabytes? Seriously???

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    What happened to you?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    badbrad17 likes this.
    06-29-2013 11:43 AM
  22. msndrstood's Avatar
    You have the right to assault a person because they choose to smoke pot? Are you serious?

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    I'm thinking that's not what he meant. I think he meant nature doesn't come with instructions, do whatever you want with it. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.

    What?! ... I'm msndrstood.
    via Note II
    badbrad17 likes this.
    06-29-2013 11:46 AM
  23. msndrstood's Avatar
    I'm thinking that's not what he meant. I think he meant nature doesn't come with instructions, do whatever you want with it. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.

    Smoking pot is so low on the totem pole in the grand scheme of things. It's only been illegal for the past 75 years or so, people have been smoking it for thousands of years. Everyone needs to lighten up about it. There are bigger problems in this world than smoking pot. Seriously.

    What?! ... I'm msndrstood.
    via Note II
    Whoops. TT keeps doing that to me, quoting when I wanted to edit. And no, before you ask, I have not been partaking in said substance.

    What?! ... I'm msndrstood.
    via Note II
    06-29-2013 11:50 AM
  24. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    He doesn't remember when he decided to be heterosexual because he was born that way. Who remembers things when they were born?

    All this crap is so damn stupid.
    No wonder the rest of the world laughs at this country.

    None of our spoiled brat society knows what REAL problems are.
    All we're concerned about is the next phone coming out and figuring out some label to label ourselves with, such as pan-sexual, metro-sexual, experimental sexual.... freakin' please, I'm so sick of this BS.

    Sent from Hotlanta via New Yawk
    Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that its an inconsequential issue. This is effecting millions of peoples lives. It isn't some fad, Danny, its not about labels. Its about equality. This is an issue that effects how someone LIVES. The problem with this country isn't bout how spoiled we are. Its about how callous we are with each other and how divided we are on things as simple as equal opportunity. Try as you might to believe it, the gay community is active, and they want the rights they DESERVE. If the women quit fighting for their right to vote because someone said it was silly and a "first world issue," I guarantee you you wouldn't see me here, and you sure as heck wouldn't be married to the woman you are today. If the African Americans just gave up on being treated as equal because it was just a "fad," we would be an even more bigoted and ignorant country than we are today. You cant just limit someone's rights because you don't like what they are doing. We've had this conversation before. Let someone have told you you couldn't marry your wife because it wasn't NORMAL. I bet you'd have been pretty offended.
    06-29-2013 11:52 AM
  25. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Not to point fingers, but aren't Muslims taught to hate all non-Muslims?
    Not to point fingers but arent all Christians taught to hate non-Christians?

    โœŒ๐ŸŽ€๐Ÿ‘‘๐Ÿญ๐ŸŒž
    06-29-2013 11:52 AM
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