06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. Scott7217's Avatar
    What does sex have to do with it? Drop sex from your questions. Strong feelings and love for another doesn't equate to sex.
    My response was tailored for msndrstood, who said in post #46 of this thread: "I'm pretty sure S. E. X. would be involved."

    However, I would agree with you that sex is not necessary. My remaining inquiry still stands.
    06-10-2014 10:32 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I say we classify all legally recognized marriages as civil unions and be done with it. Take the term "marriage" out of it so there's no possible religious context (they can have their own faith recognized unions, but that would be separate from the legal one), and let any consenting adult join with any other consenting adult they choose. Problem solved.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    06-10-2014 10:37 PM
  3. palandri's Avatar
    My response was tailored for msndrstood, who said in post #46 of this thread: "I'm pretty sure S. E. X. would be involved."

    However, I would agree with you that sex is not necessary. My remaining inquiry still stands.
    You've created a paradox by making sex an absolute in a relationship, drop it and you'll see relationships in a different perspective.
    06-10-2014 10:47 PM
  4. Scott7217's Avatar
    You've created a paradox by making sex an absolute in a relationship, drop it and you'll see relationships in a different perspective.
    Sure, I can try.

    A person is gay if they're attracted to people with the same gender. A person is straight if they're attracted to people of the opposite gender.

    Does this sound right, or am I missing something here?
    06-10-2014 11:04 PM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    Sure, I can try.

    A person is gay if they're attracted to people with the same gender. A person is straight if they're attracted to people of the opposite gender.

    Does this sound right, or am I missing something here?
    You're getting closer, but you're not there yet.
    06-10-2014 11:16 PM
  6. GadgetGator's Avatar
    How does Chris Christie compare with other Republicans on gay issues? Christie doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin. He doesn't believe that people choose their sexual orientation. In those 2 areas, he is on the opposite side of the majority of Republicans.

    As for same sex marriage, is it easy for a Republican to be in favor of it and receive support from the GOP at the same time? I think if he publicly favored same sex marriage, the GOP would support someone else.

    Remember, the Texas initiative is a response to Christie's ban on gay reparative therapy. Would you have expected a Republican to support such a ban? It's not something I would have expected.
    But your question to me was could I support Christie, not could the GOP support him with more progressive views. How am I supposed to know if he wants to ban same sex marriages because that is what he believes OR if it's just something he says to please his base?

    Posted via Android Central App
    06-11-2014 01:00 AM
  7. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I would agree that your experience is limited. You say you have no gay friends that have gone straight. Perhaps some of your straight friends used to be gay, but they simply never told you.
    Used to be? I truly believe that someone's sexuality does not "change". There's an incredible amount of pressure put onto gay people by families and society to be straight and produce offspring. Religion plays into this pressure as well. So some give in to that and try to be something they are not in order to please others, keep the peace, further the family bloodline or save their soul. Which is why you don't hear about straight people going gay just for the hell of it. There is no pressure to do so.

    Now, some of those people who give into that pressure, might be bisexual. And might even be happy with the opposite gender. But that doesn't mean they aren't still attracted to the same gender. And for the gay ones, well that usually ends up with divorce, broken homes, and a realization that you ultimately cannot be happy pretending you are something you are not and living a lie. The river of de Nile can be deep. And it can last many years. But that just means they are covering up and burying their true self. I just don't think those same sex attractions (or opposite sex ones for that matter) ever go away. I knew what I liked at the ripe old age of FOUR. Long before I even knew what sex was. That points to it being an integral part of someone's genetic makeup to me.

    Posted via Android Central App
    msndrstood and Scott7217 like this.
    06-11-2014 01:19 AM
  8. NoYankees44's Avatar
    You've created a paradox by making sex an absolute in a relationship, drop it and you'll see relationships in a different perspective.
    Purely philosophically speaking:

    I have no problems separating the act of sex from the relationship between 2 individuals. Completely dropping that factor. However this then begs the discussion on what determines the classification of a "Mate" or a "couple". Are we getting away from that whole concept? Are we now just groups of individuals with no "couples"(loosely defined as 2 people that hold each other over everyone else). I mean society is obviously abandoning that concept, at least passively. Will we one day fully abandon the concept of 2 people devoting their lives to each other?
    06-11-2014 11:18 AM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    I knew what I liked at the ripe old age of FOUR. Long before I even knew what sex was. That points to it being an integral part of someone's genetic makeup to me.
    It's possible that sexual orientation is determined by genetics. However, until we isolate the relevant genes, we won't know for sure.
    06-11-2014 12:49 PM
  10. Scott7217's Avatar
    You are determined to make everyone straight.
    I haven't said that. Perhaps a different example will help clear things up.

    A man tells you he used to be straight, but he voluntarily chose to be gay. What information do you need from him to prove or disprove his claim?
    06-11-2014 01:00 PM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    It's possible that sexual orientation is determined by genetics. However, until we isolate the relevant genes, we won't know for sure.
    That opens up a whole other can of worms. What if that's the case and thus tested for in utero? What would you say to the parents if they see it as a "defect" because they want a straight baby went wish to seek modification like a designer baby?
    06-11-2014 01:05 PM
  12. msndrstood's Avatar
    I haven't said that. Perhaps a different example will help clear things up.

    A man tells you he used to be straight, but he voluntarily chose to be gay. What information do you need from him to prove or disprove his claim?
    Now you sound like a textbook exam, lol. ๐Ÿ˜†

    Seriously, I wouldn't care. If he says he's gay, then he's gay. I wouldn't need proof. I realize it's just for the sake of argument, but really everyone is who they are, it can change, and if it does as long as the change makes the person happy, that's all that matters.

    To me, 'to thine own self be true', is the most important point in this conversation. Whatever makes you happy is what you should be, and it should not depend on society's approval or disapproval.

    Good discussion. I always like debating you Scott. Thanks for the civility. It is appreciated. ๐Ÿ‘

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Scott7217 likes this.
    06-11-2014 01:10 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    Seriously, I wouldn't care. If he says he's gay, then he's gay. I wouldn't need proof.
    So, what will you tell your granddaughter? Will you tell her that people can change who they are whenever they want?
    06-11-2014 01:27 PM
  14. msndrstood's Avatar
    So, what will you tell your granddaughter? Will you tell her that people can change who they are whenever they want?
    I tell her to be true to herself. She told me yesterday she knew she was gay, years ago, she's 15 now. She was afraid of the reaction from family and friends. It was a family crisis that brought it to the forefront. If she decides in a year, 5 years, 10 years that she's not, so what? As long as she's happy, it doesn't matter to me.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    06-11-2014 01:30 PM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    How about you? Have you had to deal with this issue in your family?

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    06-11-2014 01:31 PM
  16. Scott7217's Avatar
    How about you? Have you had to deal with this issue in your family?
    I haven't had to deal with anyone in my family who has revealed that he or she was gay. I've worked with people who are gay, though. There were no issues. It's amazing how little drama there is when you treat everyone with respect.
    palandri likes this.
    06-11-2014 03:26 PM
  17. msndrstood's Avatar
    I haven't had to deal with anyone in my family who has revealed that he or she was gay. I've worked with people who are gay, though. There were no issues. It's amazing how little drama there is when you treat everyone with respect.
    Point well taken. Common decency goes a long way. If there was more respect for everyone, the country would not be in the condition it's in now.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    06-11-2014 03:31 PM
  18. Scott7217's Avatar
    That opens up a whole other can of worms. What if that's the case and thus tested for in utero? What would you say to the parents if they see it as a "defect" because they want a straight baby went wish to seek modification like a designer baby?
    In some states, doctors can invoke a conscience clause that would exempt them from performing procedures that they find objectionable. However, this does not prevent the parents from seeking someone else who has no such objection.
    06-11-2014 03:40 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    What does sex have to do with it? Drop sex from your questions. Strong feelings and love for another doesn't equate to sex.
    Isn't that an old Tina Turner song? The lyrics are all wrong though.....
    palandri likes this.
    06-11-2014 05:48 PM
  20. anon8126715's Avatar
    The GOP should focus on "Reparative Therapy" for racism and bigotry. Once that's been accomplished, then we can move forward as a society.
    06-11-2014 05:50 PM
  21. GadgetGator's Avatar
    There is a guy I am watching right now on tonight's AC360 from the Texas GOP. Bryan Hughes is his name. What a CREEPY guy. Smiled almost the entire time like a freaking Cheshire Cat. (Shudder). I may have nightmares tonight. People that smile while calling others broken, not ideal, and something needing repair give me the willies. Sounds like their version of the Final Solution. No thanks.

    Posted via Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    06-11-2014 08:43 PM
  22. Scott7217's Avatar
    The GOP should focus on "Reparative Therapy" for racism and bigotry. Once that's been accomplished, then we can move forward as a society.
    Good idea. Luckily, we already have something like that going on. It's called the Log Cabin Republicans, the gay members of the GOP. A few members on this forum have knocked it, but I am cautiously optimistic about their efforts.
    06-12-2014 06:27 AM
  23. anon8126715's Avatar
    Good idea. Luckily, we already have something like that going on. It's called the Log Cabin Republicans, the gay members of the GOP. A few members on this forum have knocked it, but I am cautiously optimistic about their efforts.
    The only problem with it is that as much as I hate to beat a dead horse, a lot of the party's base has a certain element of bigotry and racism embedded in it. Sure there is an element of that in all of us, but I think there is a higher degree of it in the GOP's base.

    06-12-2014 06:40 AM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    But your question to me was could I support Christie, not could the GOP support him with more progressive views. How am I supposed to know if he wants to ban same sex marriages because that is what he believes OR if it's just something he says to please his base?
    That's the difficulty in dealing with politics. Everything is coming from all different directions, so you need to break everything down first.

    Christie doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin. Is that good for the gay community? Yes, it is.

    Christie believes that gay people are born that way. Is that good for the gay community? Yes, it is.

    Christie signed a bill that banned gay conversion therapy for minors. Is that good for the gay community? Yes, it is.

    Christie withdrew the state's final appeal, thus allowing same-sex marriages in New Jersey. Is that good for the gay community? Yes, it is.

    Is Christie perfect? No, he's not. However, there are plenty of people in the GOP who can take his place, but they won't be as tolerant as Christie on gay issues. My fear is that he's already done once he's served as governor, and we'll see someone else that will take a hard stance against the gay community.
    06-12-2014 06:50 AM
  25. Scott7217's Avatar
    The only problem with it is that as much as I hate to beat a dead horse, a lot of the party's base has a certain element of bigotry and racism embedded in it. Sure there is an element of that in all of us, but I think there is a higher degree of it in the GOP's base.
    That's why I agree with your idea of therapy for racism and bigotry. It's a difficult task to remove what has been implanted in the mind for such a long time. We need dialogue, engagement, patience, and understanding. It will be tough, but many things that are worthwhile are tough.

    Like you said, once that's been accomplished, we can move forward as a society.
    06-12-2014 07:05 AM
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