06-30-2014 01:17 AM
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  1. palandri's Avatar
    I really dont even know how to respond to this...

    My knee jerk reaction is that he is being difficult just to be difficult.

    Thinking about it more, both sides have somewhat of a case here and we do not really have laws to dictate this type of situation. Genetic disorders aside, the M/F box on the license is non-negotiable. Your DNA cannot yet be changed and stays the same regardless of what you do to the rest of your body or how you feel about it.

    Are we going to require certain "standards" for license pictures now? Someone to come in and verify that it is your "typical" appearance?

    This whole situation is just odd... I want to identify as Batman as well...
    I don't think the kid was trying to be difficult. I think it all goes back to, "We just don't like his kind in South Carolina". If I would seen the kid, I would have thought he was trying to look like a rock star. Is there a male rock star out there that doesn't wear some type of eye liner or whatever nowadays? I think South Carolina blew it out of proportion by making him remove it, but not making women remove theirs.
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-19-2014 02:24 PM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    This guy makes a good point:
    That's not a good point. The kid had a little eye makeup on, who cares? If you go to Boys Town in Chicago I am sure it's probably the norm.
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-19-2014 02:28 PM
  3. Mooncatt's Avatar
    That's not a good point. The kid had a little eye makeup on, who cares? If you go to Boys Town in Chicago I am sure it's probably the norm.
    So you're allowed to present another gender than you were born with, but not another race?
    SteveISU likes this.
    06-19-2014 02:33 PM
  4. SteveISU's Avatar
    That's not a good point. The kid had a little eye makeup on, who cares? If you go to Boys Town in Chicago I am sure it's probably the norm.

    You don't think there are white people who want to be black or vice versa? So we can't discriminate based on sex but when the same argument can be made about race, it's asinine? Would you feel the same way if a Woman wanted to take a picture with a full fake beard on? I'm talking ZZ top beard.
    06-19-2014 02:36 PM
  5. Timelessblur's Avatar
    This guy makes a good point:
    Horrible point.
    Simple fact is they enforce the rules based on sex. That is against the law. If they forced all women to remove makeup as then the kid would not have a case. I can promise you they would not force a woman to remove her makeup. It is with in reason. The same amount of makeup on a woman would have to be requested to move.

    This is one of those case were it is really easy to see. He was no where close to the line. IT was a fine amount and you know they would never ask a woman to remove it.
    What the making a good point guy and you seem to agree with is well discrimination.
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    06-19-2014 02:38 PM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    So you're allowed to present another gender than you were born with, but not another race?
    I have a goatee. that hides my true identify a lot more than a 16 year old kid with little eye liner. If it was something other than, "We just don't like his kind in South Carolina", they should ask me to shave my goatee off for a drivers license picture..
    06-19-2014 02:40 PM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    You don't think there are white people who want to be black or vice versa? So we can't discriminate based on sex but when the same argument can be made about race, it's asinine? Would you feel the same way if a Woman wanted to take a picture with a full fake beard on? I'm talking ZZ top beard.
    Stick to the subject, we're talking about a 16 year old kid with a little eye liner.
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-19-2014 02:44 PM
  8. SteveISU's Avatar
    I have a goatee. that hides my true identify a lot more than a 16 year old kid with little eye liner. If it was something of than, "We just don't like his kind in South Carolina", they should ask me to shave my goatee off for a drivers license picture..

    Depends, are you checking the box for male or female?

    So what your saying is you should be allowed to walk in to the DMV in full drag, check the box for male, and have your photo taken? Your name is John Smith, you check male, your photo you look like Cher.
    06-19-2014 02:45 PM
  9. palandri's Avatar
    Depends, are you checking the box for male or female?

    So what your saying is you should be allowed to walk in to the DMV in full drag, check the box for male, and have your photo taken? Your name is John Smith, you check male, your photo you look like Cher.
    I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some.
    A895 likes this.
    06-19-2014 02:47 PM
  10. SteveISU's Avatar
    Stick to the subject, we're talking about a 16 year old kid with a little eye liner.

    I am, if you let him why can't a woman sport a fake beard. Why can't I put black on my face? You are not to discriminate based on gender, sex, or race. BTW....pretty sure he was wearing more than eyeliner.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some.
    I'm asking, how far can we go?
    06-19-2014 02:47 PM
  11. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I don't think the kid was trying to be difficult. I think it all goes back to, "We just don't like his kind in South Carolina". If I would seen the kid, I would have thought he was trying to look like a rock star. Is there a male rock star out there that doesn't wear some type of eye liner or whatever nowadays? I think South Carolina blew it out of proportion by making him remove it, but not making women remove theirs.
    I personally think it is a little more reasonable to assume that a teenager is trying to be funny or difficult(as teenagers commonly try to be) than to assume a southern state is blindly persecuting someone for being different, but that is just my opinion.

    As other have stated, this poses an interesting problem. The DMV has no idea how he normally dresses. All they see is a kid(boy) dressed as a girl. Knowing nothing about him, the situation is similar to trying to get a license with a disguise. I would sure hope officials giving ID's think of such situations when they hand them out and do not just blindly give out ID's to everyone no matter what they are wearing or painting their face with.

    If you look at the picture, he looks just like a woman to me. I would not have thought otherwise. Someone that needed his ID could easily deny it if he were to dress less "pretty" one day. Then again, they could deny it now if he always looks like a girl...
    06-19-2014 02:51 PM
  12. SteveISU's Avatar
    All I got a say is good luck making it through airport security or getting a passport.
    06-19-2014 02:56 PM
  13. palandri's Avatar
    I personally think it is a little more reasonable to assume that a teenager is trying to be funny or difficult(as teenagers commonly try to be) than to assume a southern state is blindly persecuting someone for being different, but that is just my opinion.

    As other have stated, this poses an interesting problem. The DMV has no idea how he normally dresses. All they see is a kid(boy) dressed as a girl. Knowing nothing about him, the situation is similar to trying to get a license with a disguise. I would sure hope officials giving ID's think of such situations when they hand them out and do not just blindly give out ID's to everyone no matter what they are wearing or painting their face with.

    If you look at the picture, he looks just like a woman to me. I would not have thought otherwise. Someone that needed his ID could easily deny it if he were to dress less "pretty" one day. Then again, they could deny it now if he always looks like a girl...
    Like I said, and it's just my opinion, it's a 16 year old kid with a little eye liner or whatever. I don't think he's trying to ,"disguise" himself.
    A895 likes this.
    06-19-2014 02:56 PM
  14. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Like I said, and it's just my opinion, it's a 16 year old kid with a little eye liner or whatever. I don't think he's trying to ,"disguise" himself.
    The picture i saw was more than a little eye liner. I would not have guessed she was a he.
    DOMA and Prop 8 fall-chase-culpepper.jpg
    06-19-2014 03:07 PM
  15. palandri's Avatar
    The picture i saw was more than a little eye liner. I would not have guessed she was a he.
    Look at their hair, are they women or are they men?
    Attached Thumbnails DOMA and Prop 8 fall-album-beatles-let-.jpg  
    06-19-2014 03:35 PM
  16. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Look at their hair, are they women or are they men?
    3 of those have facia hair and all of them quite frankly do not look very feminine nor do they appear to be wearing much if any makeup. While I guess you could argue that their hair is stereo typical to women(not really these days), the whole package is not.

    I understand the point you are trying to make, but can you look at the picture of that kid and honestly say he looks like anything but a girl to you?
    06-19-2014 03:46 PM
  17. A895's Avatar
    The picture i saw was more than a little eye liner. I would not have guessed she was a he.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote honestly, he does look like a girl. But I still have to fault the DMV for making him take off his makeup, they were intentionally being obtuse.

    Posted via Android Central App
    06-19-2014 04:51 PM
  18. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Depends, are you checking the box for male or female?

    So what your saying is you should be allowed to walk in to the DMV in full drag, check the box for male, and have your photo taken? Your name is John Smith, you check male, your photo you look like Cher.
    Again the check box means nothing and can not be a reason for how the rules are enforced.

    You seem to not be getting what discrimination is and hell you seem to be in full support of it. Sex can not be a reason for any of the rules PLAN AND SIMPLE. No if's ands or buts about it. It is that simple.
    A895 and msndrstood like this.
    06-19-2014 04:53 PM
  19. SactoKingsFan's Avatar
    So you're allowed to present another gender than you were born with, but not another race?
    You seem to conflate gender and sex. One is a social construct, while the other is biological.

    Sent from my G2 running SOKP
    TOTtomdora and A895 like this.
    06-19-2014 05:13 PM
  20. SactoKingsFan's Avatar
    The picture i saw was more than a little eye liner. I would not have guessed she was a he.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Most women wear as much if not more makeup.

    Sent from my G2 running SOKP
    06-19-2014 05:18 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    You seem to conflate gender and sex. One is a social construct, while the other is biological.

    Sent from my G2 running SOKP
    Both are biological. Gender roles are a social construct, but even then there are certain things each gender are better at from a biological perspective. Like men are naturally better at physical labor and women are naturally better at child rearing, generally speaking.
    06-19-2014 05:31 PM
  22. SactoKingsFan's Avatar
    Both are biological. Gender roles are a social construct, but even then there are certain things each gender are better at from a biological perspective. Like men are naturally better at physical labor and women are naturally better at child rearing, generally speaking.
    You just described general physical differences between sexes.

    Here's a definition of gender from the WHO:

    "gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"

    Sent from my G2 running SOKP
    06-19-2014 05:55 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    All I got a say is good luck making it through airport security or getting a passport.
    If Culpepper's appearance doesn't match his photo ID, security will probably flag him for additional screening.

    To be fair, though, this could apply to anyone who drastically changes their appearance from their photo. Are people required to update their ID once their appearance changes?
    06-19-2014 05:58 PM
  24. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Both are biological. Gender roles are a social construct, but even then there are certain things each gender are better at from a biological perspective. Like men are naturally better at physical labor and women are naturally better at child rearing, generally speaking.
    but as you pointed out generally speaking. That means their are women who are better at physical stuff and enjoy it and their are men who are great at child rearing and hell better at it than the respective mother. They swap the general rules.
    I can bet money that when my brother has kids he will be the primary care taker and his wife will be the bread winner. He enjoys doing that stuff and honestly very good at it.
    06-19-2014 05:59 PM
  25. Paul627g's Avatar
    Breaking into this discussion momentarily... Please do your best to follow the rules on discrimination and talk of sexual preferences. I know this is a touchy discussion so let's keep it in an adult tone and profession attitude so we don't have to close it or deal with any situations.

    Thanks!

    Sent from my HTCONE using AC Forums mobile app
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    06-19-2014 06:35 PM
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