07-08-2013 11:52 PM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Approximately 100% of Earthlings are atheists when it comes to 99.9% of the Gods past, future or presently worshiped on Earth. You don't believe in Apollo, Baal, Minerva nor Loki. What's the big deal with that last .1%?
    Wiley_11 likes this.
    07-05-2013 06:50 PM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    I think the ancient alien theory has relevance here.
    Wiley_11, msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-05-2013 06:53 PM
  3. Fairclough's Avatar
    Lorien?

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    07-05-2013 06:57 PM
  4. Wiley_11's Avatar
    So my religious questions/things that don't add up to me are:

    1. The whole Adam and Eve thing. God is supposed to be all knowing and see ahead, right? Then why wasn't Adam's loneliness foreseen ahead of time? Why wasn't Eve there from the start? Why did Eve have to be made from Adam's rib, when Adam himself was supposedly conjured up out of nothing? If incest is bad, where did their grandchildren come from? And as a side issue...why do men have nipples?

    2. The Flood. That whole foreseen ahead of time thing again....why wouldn't God see that mankind wasn't going to supposedly do the right thing? Why would a supreme being feel the need to not only wipe out the problem people in question, but all the little babies and even the animals (excluding the ones on ark)? It makes no sense. That seems like swatting a fly with a nuke. I am sure someone that created everything could be more selective than that. Then we have a situation AGAIN where grandchildren came from only one family? So that's two times that God has resorted to incest? Really? Hmmmmmmmm

    3. Prayer -no one answered my question in the other thread, so I will ask it here. If a coach prays that his players do not get hurt, and they still get hurt anyway, what does that mean?
    You already know the answers!
    1. Myth
    2. Myth
    3. No matter how much you pray/wish/meditate *stuff happens*

    My favorite question to date.... So where did your (insert deity here) come from, who *created* it? I'll hitch my wagon with Stephan Hawking anytime. "No deity required for the Universe to exist"
    lpt2569 likes this.
    07-05-2013 07:01 PM
  5. Wiley_11's Avatar
    I have heard it all and worse from dyed-in- the-wool Christians.
    Lay this on them next time and see their reaction.

    "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
    ...Stephen F Roberts
    07-05-2013 07:09 PM
  6. Wiley_11's Avatar
    Approximately 100% of Earthlings are atheists when it comes to 99.9% of the Gods past, future or presently worshiped on Earth. You don't believe in Apollo, Baal, Minerva nor Loki. What's the big deal with that last .1%?
    Hey watch it bub!!!, don't you be messing with my Loki. ...................
    07-05-2013 07:14 PM
  7. Wiley_11's Avatar
    I think the ancient alien theory has relevance here.
    I believe (insert deity here) was the captain of a spaceship, if they existed at all. Anything else seems illogical.
    07-05-2013 07:18 PM
  8. primevyl's Avatar
    Ancient alien theory...What like the scientology folk?

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    07-05-2013 07:30 PM
  9. palandri's Avatar
    Ancient alien theory...What like the scientology folk?

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    No, Chariots of the Gods stuff. Ancient Aliens is show on the History channel about it.
    07-05-2013 10:19 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    No, Chariots of the Gods stuff. Ancient Aliens is show on the History channel about it.
    Great show, very entertaining.

    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    07-05-2013 10:20 PM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    I believe (insert deity here) was the captain of a spaceship, if they existed at all. Anything else seems illogical.
    It's things like, Mormons are Christians, but they believe they go to planet Kolob when they die. There's a lot to it. You really have to look at all their hypotheses from relics and such that they find.
    07-05-2013 10:32 PM
  12. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Everything you need to know about religion:

    Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.

    An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.

    The tongue like a sharp knife. It kills without drawing blood.
    I probably butchered these quotes, but Buddha wouldn't mind.
    Aquila, msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-05-2013 10:40 PM
  13. badbrad17's Avatar
    A contradiction of genesis and reality:

    Such as the creation order with Earth being created on day 1, along with "light" and the seperation of light and darkness, which means the earth started spinning - yet the sun, moon, stars (and presumably all the other planets) are not created until day 4. We obviously know that light as we see it is caused by stars, that the earth and everything on it is made out of stardust and that in order for there to be light and/or an earth, the sun and other stars had to already exist in some form. The age of the earth is far younger than the rest of the universe.

    Additionally, water and vegetation both exist prior to there being stars, including the sun - an impossibility unless it just means the chemical composition of what would later become each... either way, the matter wouldn't exist yet, water would be infinitely cold and not water and vegetation could not grow. Day 5 has fish and birds, but 6 has land animals. I'm not sure anyone thinks that flying creatures predated land animals and amphibians.

    The obvious impossibilities and logistical holes of the first six days, which clearly describe billions of years and are out of order, being human centric and not scientifically based, mean that the biblical scholars that describe it as allegorical are the only ones that have a possibility of being relevant to reality. When the words of bronze age mystics contradict the real world, we need to trust the real world. That STILL doesn't mean God did or did not start it all, it just means that it wasn't in 6 days (days, obviously a concept that follow the sun and earth existing, which is only in the last 1/3rd or so of the universe so far), or that if it was, these are not the events that happened on those "days".

    Also, a day at the dawn of earth was not 24 hours, nor was a year 365.25... days. Both the orbit, the tilt and rotation have shifted since then, even since recorded history, and so applying these numbers to bronze age records, without a LOT of calculations, is bound to create some errors.
    This is not directed to NothingisTrue as he knows my take on things, but I will say to others in order to be clear. I don't claim to have all the answers. I am no theologian and am open to learning. I am only sharing what I have read and remember and have come to believe as truth. You may feel otherwise. That is okay and it is your choice. We can still be friends. I welcome your comments or retaliations in a productive manner.

    As for NothingIsTrue's comments: I will have to state only that much of this discussion as you know can go so many different ways. Not only with Atheists, but even with Christians. I believe some of the debate is because of our inability to translate Hebrew and to be able to truly understand how the text was written. English generalizes so many words that don't always translate well. Even the word "love" has 3 or 4 different meanings when translated. Yet in English we use the same word when we love Pizza or our children. So what I'm trying to say is this interpretation could go different ways. I try to think more simplistically (not always on purpose) in order to gain the overall meaning of what is being said.

    Also, we can go back and forth debating if this happened first or if this was even possible. Let's be honest. The account of the Creation in Genesis is beyond us regardless of whether we are Christians or not. If we don't believe that God created the Earth then the rest is a waste of our time to debate. For example the Bible clearly states that the God created the heavens and the earth along with the stars. The whole science needing to be present for this or that really doesn't hold weight if the being creating it is the master of it and actually created it. You can assume that the Earth had to do something like spin, but this is still speculative. If I am strong enough to spin a top I can also stop it. If I create the force then I can also wield it. If the force is outside of the laws or actually created the law then there are far more variables in how this occurred, how it came to be and how it can be interpreted. If it's God doing it well then the conversation changes doesn't it? Maybe the orbit did spin differently and time was different than it is now. I don't know. Maybe this is also why people lived longer then. Or maybe it was because sickness wasn't as prevalent. Although some people will try to make you believe they have it all figured out and science had to work this way or that way. It's just not 100% empirical and does require lots of faith regardless of which side you are on. I'm not trying to use the "God just created it" excuse but at some point we have to call it what it is. This is a discussion about a super powered being doing miraculous things that are beyond our understanding. Equally I feel that using the "Billions of years" comment is no different. It's not empirical, requires faith and has been rejected by many very educated Non-Christian scientists.

    So, all that being said let's try to be more literal for the sake of quality discussion and debate.

    1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    - Okay he made the expanse of sky. Perhaps matter. And he create the Earth. A dirt blob perhaps? Maybe something inert with nothing capable of supporting life at all.

    2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
    - So this clearly states that the Earth was formless and void. There was nothing living on it. No vegetation. Some say that the waters we seas because that is what we understand, but the water could exist in many forms. fog, clouds, vapor etc.

    3 Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
    - A lot of people think this is where God created the Sun and Moon. But the Bible sates that God is light and there is no darkness in him at all. He is light personified. Many believe this is where God brings his presence and light into the Earth. His light become reality and existence that is put in place on the Earth. Again we could debate such things but there are many interpretations. This is one I accept.

    4. Then God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters. God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
    - This is an important one because it touches on what we spoke of before regarding the flood, about there being water above and below and that something separated it. Some people believe that this is the creation of our atmosphere. I have also read that the understanding of this concept of how the atmosphere and waters are held was not fully understood until very recently (the last 100 or so years).

    5 Then God said, Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
    - So now he defines the waters that were to be the sea and land. He takes the water in the atmosphere and he makes it into something dense. He moves the parts to review the earth as he wishes.

    6. Then God said, Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
    - Now we have plants and vegetation. Some may say, how can you have plants and vegetation without the Sun? Well if I take a plant and put it in a closet for a day or 2 and it will live until I put it in the Sun tomorrow or the next day. BUt some also believe that the Earth was just prepared to grown. Seeds are clearly mentions. Perhaps God sprinkled the earth with seeds in preparation for the sun and the rain.

    7. Then God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth; and it was so.
    - This verse is probably the one most up for debate in terms of timing. Is this the stars? There is much discussion about what the word "expanse" means when it is translated from Hebrew. Some people think it is how the pull of the Earth reacted with the stars which created orbits and the balance of time and the seasons etc. The weather systems were prepared. Maybe he made sky blue at this point. This not clearly defined so we don't have all the answers. It is open to interpretation.

    8. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
    - Now we have the Sun and the Moon. He adds the stars and places them in the expanse of the heavens. So again. This is a big one. If you don't believe in God then the entire concept of him creating anything or moving the sun, moon and stars into place are irrelevant.

    9. Then God said, Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens. God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth. There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind; and it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
    - Now the Earth is ready to support life. We have light, oxygen and a fertile environment. We have fish and water life as well as birds. Ditto to cows and pigs etc. Thank God for bacon.
    kct1975 likes this.
    07-05-2013 11:53 PM
  14. Aquila's Avatar
    Brad I'm assuming that meant you're agreeing 100% with me from now on
    07-06-2013 12:10 AM
  15. badbrad17's Avatar
    Brad I'm assuming that meant you're agreeing 100% with me from now on
    Did I say agree? I meant appreciate. Lol.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 12:13 AM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    Did I say agree? I meant appreciate. Lol.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    How can anyone believe a statement made next to giant blue letters that state, "Nothing is True"?
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-06-2013 12:16 AM
  17. primevyl's Avatar
    How can anyone believe a statement made next to giant blue letters that state, "Nothing is True"?
    I assumed your moniker was a quantum statement

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    Aquila and badbrad17 like this.
    07-06-2013 12:33 AM
  18. Slender Troll's Avatar
    For most of my answers in this thread, I will be getting my answers from www.answersingenesis.org, and my Bible. If I'm not clear on something, or if I don't know an answer, I will defer to that website.

    So my religious questions/things that don't add up to me are:

    1. The whole Adam and Eve thing. God is supposed to be all knowing and see ahead, right? Then why wasn't Adam's loneliness foreseen ahead of time? Why wasn't Eve there from the start? Why did Eve have to be made from Adam's rib, when Adam himself was supposedly conjured up out of nothing? If incest is bad, where did their grandchildren come from? And as a side issue...why do men have nipples?
    See website listed above.

    [QUOTE/]2. The Flood. That whole foreseen ahead of time thing again....why wouldn't God see that mankind wasn't going to supposedly do the right thing? Why would a supreme being feel the need to not only wipe out the problem people in question, but all the little babies and even the animals (excluding the ones on ark)? It makes no sense. That seems like swatting a fly with a nuke. I am sure someone that created everything could be more selective than that. Then we have a situation AGAIN where grandchildren came from only one family? So that's two times that God has resorted to incest? Really? Hmmmmmmmm [/QUOTE]

    The flood was God's way of giving Mankind a choice. In Genesis 6:5, 11-12, we see that the wickedness of mankind is so great that God needs to intervene. Again, I defer to Answers in Genesis as that is the extent of my knowledge on this subject.

    [QUOTE/]3. Prayer -no one answered my question in the other thread, so I will ask it here. If a coach prays that his players do not get hurt, and they still get hurt anyway, what does that mean?[/QUOTE]

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-06-2013 12:51 AM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    I assumed your moniker was a quantum statement

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    Yes, that's half of the context I use it in.
    07-06-2013 12:56 AM
  20. Fairclough's Avatar
    Found this FML.


    Today, my boyfriend and I went to my parents' barbecue. He knew my family is extremely religious, so what did he do? Called for silence to make an announcement, namely: "God isn't real." Cue a riot that ended in us being kicked out and me all but disowned for "putting him up to it". FML

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    07-06-2013 07:14 AM
  21. badbrad17's Avatar
    Found this FML.


    Today, my boyfriend and I went to my parents' barbecue. He knew my family is extremely religious, so what did he do? Called for silence to make an announcement, namely: "God isn't real." Cue a riot that ended in us being kicked out and me all but disowned for "putting him up to it". FML

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    Oh my! Family drama is the worst kind. Hopefully you can sort it out. May want to council your boyfriend that parents are always right no matter what lol.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 10:18 AM
  22. Oofa's Avatar
    So my religious questions/things that don't add up to me are:

    1. The whole Adam and Eve thing. God is supposed to be all knowing and see ahead, right? Then why wasn't Adam's loneliness foreseen ahead of time? Why wasn't Eve there from the start? Why did Eve have to be made from Adam's rib, when Adam himself was supposedly conjured up out of nothing? If incest is bad, where did their grandchildren come from? And as a side issue...why do men have nipples?

    2. The Flood. That whole foreseen ahead of time thing again....why wouldn't God see that mankind wasn't going to supposedly do the right thing? Why would a supreme being feel the need to not only wipe out the problem people in question, but all the little babies and even the animals (excluding the ones on ark)? It makes no sense. That seems like swatting a fly with a nuke. I am sure someone that created everything could be more selective than that. Then we have a situation AGAIN where grandchildren came from only one family? So that's two times that God has resorted to incest? Really? Hmmmmmmmm

    3. Prayer -no one answered my question in the other thread, so I will ask it here. If a coach prays that his players do not get hurt, and they still get hurt anyway, what does that mean?

    You might as well ask about the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. There are no logical answers to any fairy tales. These are all fairy tales to keep the masses in line. Keep them from stealing, cheating, murdering, sleeping with their neighbors wife. They worked much better when humans were dumber and knew nothing about reproduction, psychology and science. It was all kind of a civil code book that worked by scaring people into believing hogwash. It still works on many today that have been indoctrinated into the black hole but there are more and more people using their brain power instead of their "belief power".
    07-06-2013 10:43 AM
  23. Wiley_11's Avatar
    You might as well ask about the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. There are no logical answers to any fairy tales. These are all fairy tales to keep the masses in line. Keep them from stealing, cheating, murdering, sleeping with their neighbors wife. They worked much better when humans were dumber and knew nothing about reproduction, psychology and science. It was all kind of a civil code book that worked by scaring people into believing hogwash. It still works on many today that have been indoctrinated into the black hole but there are more and more people using their brain power instead of their "belief power".
    ......
    07-06-2013 11:02 AM
  24. GadgetGator's Avatar
    You might as well ask about the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. There are no logical answers to any fairy tales. These are all fairy tales to keep the masses in line. Keep them from stealing, cheating, murdering, sleeping with their neighbors wife. They worked much better when humans were dumber and knew nothing about reproduction, psychology and science. It was all kind of a civil code book that worked by scaring people into believing hogwash. It still works on many today that have been indoctrinated into the black hole but there are more and more people using their brain power instead of their "belief power".
    Well if that was the reason then that was all sorts of fail, since those things still happened.
    Oofa likes this.
    07-06-2013 11:13 AM
  25. badbrad17's Avatar
    So my religious questions/things that don't add up to me are:

    1. The whole Adam and Eve thing. God is supposed to be all knowing and see ahead, right? Then why wasn't Adam's loneliness foreseen ahead of time? Why wasn't Eve there from the start? Why did Eve have to be made from Adam's rib, when Adam himself was supposedly conjured up out of nothing? If incest is bad, where did their grandchildren come from? And as a side issue...why do men have nipples?

    2. The Flood. That whole foreseen ahead of time thing again....why wouldn't God see that mankind wasn't going to supposedly do the right thing? Why would a supreme being feel the need to not only wipe out the problem people in question, but all the little babies and even the animals (excluding the ones on ark)? It makes no sense. That seems like swatting a fly with a nuke. I am sure someone that created everything could be more selective than that. Then we have a situation AGAIN where grandchildren came from only one family? So that's two times that God has resorted to incest? Really? Hmmmmmmmm

    3. Prayer -no one answered my question in the other thread, so I will ask it here. If a coach prays that his players do not get hurt, and they still get hurt anyway, what does that mean?
    Hopefully we can be nice to each other on this one

    I will again preempt my post by saying this is just my opinion based on what I have learned.

    1. The process of creating man was formulated by God in such a way that it allowed freedom of choice as well as a controlled process that had a final purpose. The end goal of our creation has not been completed yet. God made us in order to have fellowship with us in a place where sin is not present. In order to not be a puppet master he must allow the natural order of things to take place within his creation. As soon as this is removed we would merely be pawns being pushed around without freewill.

    Edit: I would like to add that I believe the final end game is not over yet. God's original plan was to actually save his creation after the fall when they sinned. God's plan is to provide an iron clad way for us to be with him outside of Satan's control. The only way this was feasible was for him to eventually die for us in the person of Jesus. His perfect life for our imperfect life (and Adam's for that matter). It was part of his plan and he knew it from the beginning. Satan chose to work against God. God wanted fellowship with his creation but knew how Satan would react. God can't allow evil and corruption to live in his presence so he created a perfect system that allows us to be able to be with God and be completely justified.

    The reason Eve was created after was to show that we need a partner. Eve is called Adam's helper. This doesn't mean his subordinate. Both people need each other and work harmoniously together. God made Eve from Adam the same way that man was made in the likeness of God. Genetically man and women are not that different. The creation was modified with a specific purpose in mind. Whether Adam had nipples or not I don't know.

    As for incest. I believe this to be less complicated of an issue. First of all I'm not sure you could say that Adam and Eve were family, but let's say they are. The reason we have problems with birth defects etc due to incest is because we are now genetically flawed. Our physical bodies began to decay and die after sin was introduced into the world, just as God said we would. Before this Adam and Eve were genetically and physically perfect so mutations and or birth defects would not have been present. It would take a long time before God said that people were no longer to marry or have relations with close relatives. So although we find it creepy now, there is a good chance that everyone was sleeping with everyone else for a good long while.

    I will answer questions 2 and 3 in separate posts as my time is limited.

    Thanks for the questions and the discussion.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    TheLibertarian likes this.
    07-06-2013 11:31 AM
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