07-08-2013 11:52 PM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Why do you assume he was created?
    Because the alternative is he evolved... out of what?
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-06-2013 10:19 PM
  2. badbrad17's Avatar
    So you don't believe in faith? You either believe in faith or facts, which is it?
    Actually both. But it's more than even those. For example is the love of your children an act or a feeling? It's probably both but it's deeper than that. This is probably a lame analogy but hopefully you get what I'm trying to get at. It's personal.

    I did not have any religious upbringing. I was not looking for it. It just happened and it was a very strange yet incredible process. I didn't really know what it was for quite some time, but when I started reading the Bible and learning I knew that this was it. I didn't need proof because once I accepted it I was changed. I know it sounds stupid but I have seen it happen many times in many people. It's more than facts although I enjoy learning more all the time.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-06-2013 10:21 PM
  3. palandri's Avatar
    The whole "worship" and "servant" issue doesn't make sense.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-06-2013 10:31 PM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    So you don't believe in faith? You either believe in faith or facts, which is it?
    I trust facts, but understand faith. I don't see belief in the possibility or likelihood of God's existence to by necessity invalidate reality, however belief in man's assumptions about God's existence in the face of facts is obviously intellectually dishonest. The God Theory is an interesting thing in some ways to hypothesize about, but it's not needed for the laws of the actual universe to function in the way that they do, so it's only interesting in a philosophical sense, not as a scientific research function aside from the cultural impacts and psychological impacts of the phenomenon, rather than the actual teachings.
    07-06-2013 10:36 PM
  5. AngelArs's Avatar
    I don't know...when I hear the words "serving" and "worshiping" it sounds more like bondage to me then freedom.
    To me religion is a prison. Anything you can't willingly leave is a prison.

    And that basically reinforces my problem with that whole worship term. God needed beings to flutter around him and make him feel good and do what....bring him apples??
    Apparently god has low self-esteem.
    07-06-2013 10:37 PM
  6. AngelArs's Avatar
    The whole "worship" and "servant" issue doesn't make sense.
    Tell that to Rush Limbaugh.
    07-06-2013 10:42 PM
  7. AngelArs's Avatar
    It's personal.
    No, facts are not personal. Faith is believing in something in the absence of facts. It cannot be both.
    07-06-2013 10:46 PM
  8. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    God desires to have fellowship with man. That was his goal. Its a shame that some of us can't conversate without resorting to condescending remarks.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Lendo likes this.
    07-06-2013 10:48 PM
  9. Aquila's Avatar
    I don't want to repost all of this stuff again, since many of us have read it already but page 2 of this thread has a few of my thoughts on it: http://forums.androidcentral.com/pol...-prison-2.html
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-06-2013 10:49 PM
  10. AngelArs's Avatar
    I didn't need proof because once I accepted it I was changed.
    Congratulations, what you are describing is addiction via the god gene.
    07-06-2013 10:50 PM
  11. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    I think we're missing the real question.


    Who made God?
    You're assuming that there is a god. If god exist then "he" /it must have been created. So who created him?

    For me, the logical explanation is that God is a human construct, something created to help us deal with the human condition. I recently came across this article that explores that :

    Science and religion: God didn't make man; man made gods - Los Angeles Times

    A few snippets from the article:
    In recent years scientists specializing in the mind have begun to unravel religion's "DNA." They have produced robust theories, backed by empirical evidence (including "imaging" studies of the brain at work), that support the conclusion that it was humans who created God, not the other way around.

    Like our physiological DNA, the psychological mechanisms behind faith evolved over the eons through natural selection. They helped our ancestors work effectively in small groups and survive and reproduce, traits developed long before recorded history, from foundations deep in our mammalian, primate and African hunter-gatherer past.

    For example, we are born with a powerful need for attachment, identified as long ago as the 1940s by psychiatrist John Bowlby and expanded on by psychologist Mary Ainsworth. Individual survival was enhanced by protectors, beginning with our mothers. Attachment is reinforced physiologically through brain chemistry, and we evolved and retain neural networks completely dedicated to it. We easily expand that inborn need for protectors to authority figures of any sort, including religious leaders and, more saliently, gods. God becomes a super parent, able to protect us and care for us even when our more corporeal support systems disappear, through death or distance.

    Scientists have so far identified about 20 hard-wired, evolved "adaptations" as the building blocks of religion. Like attachment, they are mechanisms that underlie human interactions: Brain-imaging studies at the National Institutes of Health showed that when test subjects were read statements about religion and asked to agree or disagree, the same brain networks that process human social behavior our ability to negotiate relationships with others were engaged.
    But the most important point in the article I think is this (also in the video AngelArs posted above - starting at approx the 20 min mark):

    Beyond psychological adaptations and mechanisms, scientists have discovered neurological explanations for what many interpret as evidence of divine existence. Canadian psychologist Michael Persinger, who developed what he calls a "god helmet" that blocks sight and sound but stimulates the brain's temporal lobe, notes that many of his helmeted research subjects reported feeling the presence of "another." Depending on their personal and cultural history, they then interpreted the sensed presence as either a supernatural or religious figure. It is conceivable that St. Paul's dramatic conversion on the road to Damascus was, in reality, a seizure caused by temporal lobe epilepsy.

    The better we understand human psychology and neurology, the more we will uncover the underpinnings of religion. Some of them, like the attachment system, push us toward a belief in gods and make departing from it extraordinarily difficult. But it is possible.

    We can be better as a species if we recognize religion as a man-made construct. We owe it to ourselves to at least consider the real roots of religious belief, so we can deal with life as it is, taking advantage of perhaps our mind's greatest adaptation: our ability to use reason
    AngelArs, msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    07-06-2013 10:58 PM
  12. AngelArs's Avatar
    For me, the logical explanation is that God is a human construct, something created to help us deal with the human condition. I recently came across this article that explores that :

    Science and religion: God didn't make man; man made gods - Los Angeles Times
    Excellent article Synycalwon. THANK YOU for posting (and welcome to the thread)
    07-06-2013 11:08 PM
  13. Fairclough's Avatar
    You can even take that one step further. What happened to all the millions of humans that came before christianity was started? Guess they all went to "hell" for no reason. Wait, that's not fair....
    Modern church says they go to the same place. The hell teachings and separation is very 60s teaching.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    07-06-2013 11:20 PM
  14. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Congratulations, what you are describing is addiction via the god gene.
    Congratulations, you proved me right. Why are you so condescending in your posts? Do you actually feel smarter than other people?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
    07-06-2013 11:32 PM
  15. badbrad17's Avatar
    How could they be determining their own fate if they were ignorant to the choices? If you have no concept of evil, then they can't even know what they are deciding. It's like sitting a four year old in front of two contracts and telling him to sign one and live his whole life based on what decision he makes right then and there. Ignoring the fact that he cannot read and doesn't even know what he is choosing...which yet again is (here's that word again....) illogical.
    They did know what they were doing. God told them that they could eat from all the trees in the garden except the one tree. If the ate from it they would die. It wasn't about Good and Evil for them it was about disobedience. It was Satan that deceived them and told that if they did eat that they would be like God and understand good an evil. Which ironically was true, but it still damned them to death.

    So basically you are contradicting the freewill stuff saying that in fact, we aren't being given a choice....we're just damned at birth. So much for freewill. The cards are stacked against you from the start!!! That's not freewill, or free choice. That's called rigging the table in a certain favor. Another illogical part to this is the idea that everyone that ever would live, must pay the price for someone else's "sinful" deed. That makes zero sense. If you commit a crime, do you think that every child and grandchild into infinity that will ever stem from you, should be punished for it???
    Well let me clarify. We all do have a choice at birth to either sin or to remain pure. If you have kids you know that it doesn't take long for them to sin. So the Bible says that we are born into sin and as you stated we are damned before we get out of the gate. Where the freewill part comes in is that we can choose to accept Jesus and receive the free gift of salvation or we can choose to reject it. It's a get out of jail free card. No charge.

    Actually, it is different, because the parents of the serial killer only created the killer. They didn't also create the planet he lives on, the air he breathes, the universe he lives in or make any of the rules that all of humanity is subjected to. Nor did they give him the power to control other people's lives or power to play some co-staring role in an epic battle of good vs. evil.
    LOL. It was just an analogy. Mine have been sucking lately. Sorry. I hope you understood what I was trying to say.

    So there's something God cannot do??? Then there's a problem with that whole omnipotent thing.
    I am not sure what you mean exactly. As I stated, I am no scholar and I don't have all the answers. But there are answers to this topic. I will try to find more info. on it and make a better post on it.

    I don't know...when I hear the words "serving" and "worshiping" it sounds more like bondage to me then freedom. I am sure we never will agree, but those terms just rub be the wrong way. I think to myself, why would a being that has everything need people idolizing him in some way?? I just don't like those terms. At all.
    I think the reason that some people feel this way is because we are used to seeing a tyrant evil being forcing the world to bow down and worship him. But if the being is perfect and loving in every way then their is no malice or evil intent. The goal is for us to reign with him in paradise and to experience immeasurable joy and fulfilment.

    And that basically reinforces my problem with that whole worship term. God needed beings to flutter around him and make him feel good and do what....bring him apples?? That definitely does NOT sound like free will at all.
    Well when you are God maybe you need people to talk to ;-). You are welcome to reject God for any reason you like. But again, it is about what is best for us in every way. I personally appreciate that I can worship a creator that is greater than anything else.

    So because a person ate from a certain tree, the entire UNIVERSE (and everything in it) were subject to a different rule at that point?? This may make the least sense of all. And sounds about as arrogant as a position as thinking the sun revolved around earth because surely we are so important we must be the center of the universe!!
    Well the act of eating from a tree was not the point as much as having the option to choose not do it. It's like giving you a city with everything in it and saying just don't go into this one garage or you will die. The temptation was too much and presto there goes the universe. Others will disagree, but I do not believe there are other life forms outside of our world.

    So if we discover aliens on other planets someday, they are subjected to the second law of thermodynamics because of something one of us did here once upon a time? I just don't buy that at all. In the grand scheme of the universe, I just don't think we are that important. We are in fact, a speck of dust with a collective lifespan of one second on the clock.
    If that happened I would believe that God created them as well. After all we are discussing a being that created the sun and moon, planets and all the stars So it is all part of the ability to either believe or not. We each must make our own decision and it's not and easy one for sure.

    I appreciate your comments.

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-06-2013 11:45 PM
  16. Lendo's Avatar
    I wonder if I could get a thread like this so much attention in the Crackberry Forums
    Aquila likes this.
    07-06-2013 11:48 PM
  17. AngelArs's Avatar
    Hello Serial Fordicator, sorry but I wont take the bait. Please read the excellent article that Synycalwon provided as it touches on what I said. Moving on now. Have a nice day.
    07-06-2013 11:58 PM
  18. AngelArs's Avatar
    It was Satan that deceived them and told that if they did eat that they would be like God and understand good an evil.
    Are you sure? Because that sounds a lot like god was unfair when he should have done something to satan instead....
    07-07-2013 12:02 AM
  19. primevyl's Avatar
    I believe in Christ and his teachings. But it is impossible that we are alone in the universe.

    The serpent spoke to eve not Satan

    I do not believe the devil is the creator of rebellion or evil. Evil is either a force of nature or a psychological condition and angels are messengers and destroyers but not creators or inventors

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    07-07-2013 01:40 AM
  20. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Hello Serial Fordicator, sorry but I wont take the bait. Please read the excellent article that Synycalwon provided as it touches on what I said. Moving on now. Have a nice day.
    There is no bait. You are one of those people that feel above everyone else particularly because you don't agree with them and due to internet anonymity, you feel above reproach.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    07-07-2013 08:31 AM
  21. badbrad17's Avatar
    Are you sure? Because that sounds a lot like god was unfair when he should have done something to satan instead....
    If he did then it would have removed the temptation and the option to choose good over evil.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-07-2013 12:08 PM
  22. badbrad17's Avatar
    I believe in Christ and his teachings. But it is impossible that we are alone in the universe.

    The serpent spoke to eve not Satan

    I do not believe the devil is the creator of rebellion or evil. Evil is either a force of nature or a psychological condition and angels are messengers and destroyers but not creators or inventors

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    The serpent was Satan. This is not debated among theologians.

    Your other comments are really just theories. There is no data to back that up.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-07-2013 12:13 PM
  23. badbrad17's Avatar
    No, facts are not personal. Faith is believing in something in the absence of facts. It cannot be both.
    Sure it can be both. Facts support your faith. I don't have answers to every question, so in this case I use faith.

    This is no different than scientific theory. Someone comes up with an idea based on an unproven idea and has faith that it's true. They have no proof at the beginning. Then after they begin to explore and discover they gain facts that support their theory. Most science doesn't have all the answers either. This is how we learn.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-07-2013 12:19 PM
  24. badbrad17's Avatar
    Funny, post #56 doesn't say any of what you just mentioned.

    Try back-peddling less and sticking to what your assertions are more. If you can't prove them then don't wildly make them. Pretty simple.
    I said it in the original post #50. You were replying to someone else's reply from that post, so maybe you should back pedal and get proper context before criticizing me.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-07-2013 12:27 PM
  25. AngelArs's Avatar
    If he did then it would have removed the temptation and the option to choose good over evil.
    So let me get this straight. Your god delibratly creates good and evil. Then he creates temptation and forces it upon all mortal humans. Then he puts something tempting in front of them... and watches what they do.

    When I was around 7 years old I used to take a magnifying glass and burn ants with it. I wasnt trying to be cruel, I was just amazed at how you could hold this object in your hands and how it could turn ordinary light into something so powerful. As a 7 year old not once did I ever stop to think what an effect all of this was having on that ant.

    Seems to me that your god is doing the same thing by supposedly giving humans temptation for sport. Weird.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-07-2013 12:28 PM
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