07-08-2013 11:52 PM
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  1. badbrad17's Avatar
    I think God makes room for aliens.where as religions would have cede some of their precious authority in advent of extraterrestrials.

    If people truly understood the scope of the size of the universe, even in theory, they would understand that it is a logical travesty that it's empty of life.

    And I never argue against Faith. There is room in the universe fir GOD and science because I believe they explain each other

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    CS Lewis was a very respected author (The chronicles of Narnia) but was also a very intelligent philosopher and professor who taught at Oxford and Cambridge University's. He was a Christian and had this to say on the topic of Aliens.

    - Each new discovery, even every new theory, is held at first to have the most wide-reaching theological and philosophical consequences. It is seized by unbelievers as the basis for a new attack on Christianity; it is often, and more embarrassingly, seized by injudicious believers as the basis for a new defense.

    But usually, when the popular hubbub has subsided and the novelty has been chewed over by real theologians, real scientists and real philosophers, both sides find themselves pretty much where they were before. So it was with Copernican astronomy, with Darwinism, with Biblical Criticism, with the new psychology. So, I cannot help expecting, it will be with the discovery of "life on other planets" - if that discovery is ever made.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 12:28 AM
  2. AngelArs's Avatar
    CS Lewis was a very respected author (The chronicles of Narnia) but was also a very intelligent philosopher and professor who taught at Oxford and Cambridge University's. He was a Christian and had this to say on the topic of Aliens.
    There is more credible evidence to support aliens than god or jesus. I agree with Stephen Hawking. If there are aliens, then we had better hope that they never find us. They would most likely wipe us out in a heartbeat.

    "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach."

    "If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much like as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn't turn out very well for the Native Americans."
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-08-2013 01:05 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    They're already here.
    Ever notice that newscasters are always sitting behind a desk? This is to hide their alien legs. What better way to infiltrate us than to practically park themselves in our living rooms daily?

    07-08-2013 01:23 PM
  4. AngelArs's Avatar
    Because I have seen other people die. Because I have seen other creatures die. Because I have witnessed suffering. Per your own posting, A&E had no such point of reference. Whereas you and I do. What you are proposing is like trying to explain skyscrapers, light bulbs, and horseless carriages to someone thousands of years ago who has never seen or experienced them. You can tell them, sure. But it really won't make any sense to them until they see it first hand. In fact, they probably would think you to be crazy, or maybe even a witch or demon worthy of death.
    Well stated GadgetGator. I think it was Buddha that once said that a miracle is simply something unexpectedly witnessed. If someone walked into a doctors office 30 years ago and started talking about "backing up their data on the cloud" they'd probably be locked up in the loony bin. There is a plaque posted at NASA that sums it up very nicely. It says that just because something hasn't been discovered yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Science is getting closer to understanding death.

    07-08-2013 01:37 PM
  5. badbrad17's Avatar
    There is more credible evidence to support aliens than god or jesus. I agree with Stephen Hawking. If there are aliens, then we had better hope that they never find us. They would most likely wipe us out in a heartbeat.

    "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach."

    "If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much like as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn't turn out very well for the Native Americans."
    This is 100% fantasy. And also speaks of other things CS Lewis said in his writings about fear and Aliens. Nothing new here. Proof? Really? Hmmmmmmmm. :banghead:

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 02:18 PM
  6. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Sorry if I'm coming of pushy or preachy. This is not my intention. If I am offending you in any way let me know and I will do my best to adjust how I am communicating. I appreciate the discussion.
    Not at all! Your post have been interesting. I of course don't agree with many of the positions you take, and sometimes they make no sense to me and seem to run counter to my logic, but they are interesting nonetheless and you are not preachy or pushy at all! Carry on.

    1. For me this is an argument that probably can't be agreed on. I assume that when God told them they would die that they understood what he meant. It certainly wouldn't be fair to them if he said something to them that they didn't understand, then punished them for it.
    Oh, you mean the way it's not fair to saddle a little baby with death in a flood? Or to be saddled with paying for the "sins" of their long dead ancestors that supposedly started it all? Cause those things seem pretty unfair to me.

    Faith means according to the dictionary: firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
    But we can observe these other things already...our telescopes are starting to be powerful enough to find other worlds. Not too long ago, the idea that other planets existed in other solar systems besides are own, was technically still just a theory, but it was a logical one based on the observable universe. It really didn't take a leap of "faith". Just science and common sense.

    This is what we have with the possibility of life on other planets. Water and oxygen are required for some types of life but there are many other factors. So until there is absolute proof of a real life form and not just the random possibility that it is the building blocks of something that in 20 billion years I believe it to be unproven and still requires faith. Lots of it.
    No, it doesn't require lots of faith. Again, it's a logical conclusion based on science and the observable universe around us. It's far more of a leap of faith to assume that in this HUGE and MASSIVE expanse with millions of stars that their is only one single planet with any sort of life on it whatsoever and that all those other many many worlds are just dead hunks of rock and gas. The odds of that are unlikely even due to just raw numbers alone. And really, from a God perspective would really serve no purpose. Why make a star just so it can shine on a dead rock?
    07-08-2013 02:50 PM
  7. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Question, how is it easier to believe in aliens when the only proof about them are from someone's writings, but not about god, Buddha, Muhammad, etc when the only proof about them are from writings?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-08-2013 03:05 PM
  8. neonworm's Avatar
    Question, how is it easier to believe in aliens when the only proof about them are from someone's writings, but not about god, Buddha, Muhammad, etc when the only proof about them are from writings?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
    I think that aliens are more logical because We can't be the only ones in this huge universe. If life ended up on our planet it is most likely on other planets too. That is just my opinion.

    Posted via Android Central App
    GadgetGator and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 03:07 PM
  9. badbrad17's Avatar
    Well stated GadgetGator. I think it was Buddha that once said that a miracle is simply something unexpectedly witnessed. If someone walked into a doctors office 30 years ago and started talking about "backing up their data on the cloud" they'd probably be locked up in the loony bin. There is a plaque posted at NASA that sums it up very nicely. It says that just because something hasn't been discovered yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Science is getting closer to understanding death.

    But discovering a creation of what is clearly the result of intelligence doesn't discredit the creator. For me it validates it.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 03:16 PM
  10. llamabreath's Avatar
    07-08-2013 03:30 PM
  11. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Question, how is it easier to believe in aliens when the only proof about them are from someone's writings, but not about god, Buddha, Muhammad, etc when the only proof about them are from writings?
    One is logical, one is not. I can look up in the sky, see all the stars with my own two eyes. Then I can logically conclude that there must be planets around those stars too, not just my own. (now verified). The next step in that logical progression is that there must be life too. Now I am not saying their are aliens in spaceships...just life in general. I cannot make the same logic with stories about talking snakes, parting waters, humans with vastly longer lifespans, a God that needed to drown everything in sight, even babies and little animals who couldn't have possibly done anything wrong. (And that's just a partial list).

    Now, it should be noted that the same stars that I can see with my own two eyes also give me perspective in our place in the universe.... extremely small. I think religion has elevated man's place in the universe quite a lot in a very arrogant and self-centered way. In much the same way the heavens were thought to spin around the earth, because we were THAT imporant. Actually, no..we're not. We're just floating on a life raft, same as anyone else might be in the sea of the universe.
    msndrstood and primevyl like this.
    07-08-2013 03:34 PM
  12. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    One is logical, one is not. I can look up in the sky, see all the stars with my own two eyes. Then I can logically conclude that there must be planets around those stars too, not just my own. (now verified). The next step in that logical progression is that there must be life too. Now I am not saying their are aliens in spaceships...just life in general. I cannot make the same logic with stories about talking snakes, parting waters, humans with vastly longer lifespans, a God that needed to drown everything in sight, even babies and little animals who couldn't have possibly done anything wrong. (And that's just a partial list).

    Now, it should be noted that the same stars that I can see with my own two eyes also give me perspective in our place in the universe.... extremely small. I think religion has elevated man's place in the universe quite a lot in a very arrogant and self-centered way. In much the same way the heavens were thought to spin around the earth, because we were THAT imporant. Actually, no..we're not. We're just floating on a life raft, same as anyone else might be in the sea of the universe.
    I understand your logic. I even agree to an extent. But, on the other hand, you look to the sky and think of life on other planets. Others, look to the sky and and see life in a spiritual sense. No one is really wrong, they just see things differently.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using AC Forums mobile app
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-08-2013 03:50 PM
  13. badbrad17's Avatar
    You're assuming that there is a god. If god exist then "he" /it must have been created. So who created him?

    I finally got time to watch this. I remember seeing this on TV awhile back. Very well done. It made me feel like a complete moron as some of these people are so smart. I have read some stuff from John Polkinghorn. Very bright man.

    What I find most interesting is that you think this video would invalidate that there is a God. For me it was completely the opposite. I look at what they are explaining and in every example it only validates that we are part of a perfectly orchestrated system with interdependent parts that are also unique unto themselves. It is like when we look at the cell. It has all these parts working together that are completely independent of each other. By making these amazing discoveries we only add to the fact that random chance and evolution become mathematically impossible. Put the God of the Bible aside. I don't care if you want to say we were created by Aliens. The point is that there is intelligence involved in every facet of creation.

    If you had never seen an automobile before and landed on a planet with a car in front of you, would you automatically think that this machine was the making of random chance? I highly doubt it. When we examine the machine we realize that the battery is a individual thing that has an individual purpose, but also serves a purpose in running the car. Same with the gas tank, pistons etc. Without the battery the car doesn't work. So what came first and what was the cause of the independent parts? Random chance only works for me when the math is reasonable. Once it gets to the billions of billions my faith just can't handle those kinds of odds.

    There are too many factors that make it impossible for me to think otherwise. My opinion of course ;-)

    1. The basis for a cause in the universe. This is believed by most respected scientists.

    2. The reliance of different parts of many things that are essential for not only our existence to begin but also for it to continue to work in harmony.

    3. We live in a place where time, space and matter are essential. Everything exists in time, has a location, has substance and has a beginning and an end. The cause of the beginning had to be able to work outside of this realm in order to put us in it. For me this is an intelligent being. The Bible says God is the Alpha and Omega.

    4. The proof of entropy in every natural part of our system. We are degrading and dying just like the Bible stated. Evolution is not moving ahead. We are degrading. How does this scientifically make sense? Well it does if we don't believe we are evolving.

    We may be able to discover death and how it works but it is inevitable that our bodies will not last forever. We will only prove what God already told us.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 04:08 PM
  14. badbrad17's Avatar
    Well stated GadgetGator. I think it was Buddha that once said that a miracle is simply something unexpectedly witnessed. If someone walked into a doctors office 30 years ago and started talking about "backing up their data on the cloud" they'd probably be locked up in the loony bin. There is a plaque posted at NASA that sums it up very nicely. It says that just because something hasn't been discovered yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Science is getting closer to understanding death.

    That video isn't available in my Country. I guess Canada banned it.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 04:09 PM
  15. gollum18's Avatar
    This is intended for you to read brad, but others feel free to comment on it.

    Its typical to fear something you do not understand, but to dismiss the theory alltogether, that's just nonsense. How can you be for certain that something is 100% fantasy if you are ready to dismiss it so quickly. What we consider the necessities for life on Earth may not be so on ther planets or in other galaxies. These extraterrestrials may very well require different needs to sustain their life than we do. Being a skeptic is okay, in fact that is what makes science, science. But please do not just simply disregard something because it has not been proven.

    Certainly there must be some kind of standard we must hold life on, so why not start with the standards that we have here on Earth. But did you ever stop to wonder that it seems kind of silly to think that out of the millions of planets and galaxies in our universe, that our's is the only one capable of supporting life? I will reiterate this again, as I feel I need to, "Just because something has not been proven to exist, it is not a certain fact that it doesn't."

    And yes, I also agree with Steven Hawking. There is a vast possibility that there exist intelligent life in our universe, the likes of which are vastly more intelligent than us.

    I am a believer in the Ancient Astornaut theory. I feel that there is a large chance that this "God" the bible speaks of is simply man's attempt to explain extraterrestrial beings that we could not comprehend or understand. Look at the exact precision invovled with the construction of the pyramids. From everything we know of Ancient civilization, the Egyptians did not have the technology in 3000 B.C. to build them. How could they have acheived such a lasting feet without alien intervention.

    And yes llama, although your post was intended to lighten the mood, there is already a possibility that aliens exist among us, as sort of a system of watchers. If they are as advanced as many sources suggest, they could be using some sort of device to blend into our society, or they may have even evolved the ability to do so on their own. They could be relaying information about our civilazation/planet back to thier home world.

    As for my last theory, well this is a ground shaker. What if we are a colonial world? I mean think about it. We have had to build our civilization from the ground up. From the most base technologies to the marvels we have today. Relating this to religion; What about the Adam and Eve story? Is it possible that they were the original colonists for our alien homeworld. That they were gifted with abilities that far superceded our own. It would explain the fact, as to why modern humans only use ~15% of thier brain. What is the rest of that gray matter for; better yet what was it used for? It very well could of been that over time, and thorugh the ever increasing march of technology that, we have lost most of our brains abilities, as they were simply no longer needed in a technologically advanced world. If we could somehow unlock these extra portions of our brain, the effects could be substantially beneficial to our species. Perhaps we feel this link to the universe, as some sort of bond to our homeworld or master species. It has been proven that there exists a bond between all humans on Earth, and it is best evidenced between twins. When one feels pain, the other feels it. This could also be used to support the theories in the bible, as well as modern day science. The bible is not difinitive fact, it was written by man, and as such it may very well contain errors.

    Now before this comes off as rambling nonsense, I want to add that I have given considerable thought and study to this subject. Most of these are my personal beliefs, mingled with opinions from greateer minds than my own. But brad, all I ask is that you open up your mind to the possibility that there may be other life in the universe than our own.
    msndrstood, palandri and STARGATE like this.
    07-08-2013 04:17 PM
  16. llamabreath's Avatar
    Stop beating around the bush, Gollum, are you an alien or not?

    msndrstood and gollum18 like this.
    07-08-2013 05:09 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    But seriously, it IS hard to discount the probability angle, that's for sure. But I don't think somebody that deeply believes in God and the Bible could (or even want to) be persuaded to think likewise.

    07-08-2013 05:12 PM
  18. llamabreath's Avatar
    Like i said earlier, there was no bigger Atheist than me, for thirty of my forty years. I used to utilize all of AngelArs' "powerpoints". But my wife has gradually been causing me (brainwashing?) me to "have an open mind" in the spiritual (God, bible etc) direction. Anybody can tell anybody that doesn't agree with them that they don't have an open mind. Where does this cycle end?

    Has anyone read the link i posted at the end of the other page? It shows the intelligence needed just to make a living cell, let alone all the planets and galaxies.
    http://www.creationism.org/heinze/SciEvidGodLife.htm

    07-08-2013 05:23 PM
  19. msndrstood's Avatar
    This is intended for you to read brad, but others feel free to comment on it.

    Its typical to fear something you do not understand, but to dismiss the theory alltogether, that's just nonsense. How can you be for certain that something is 100% fantasy if you are ready to dismiss it so quickly. What we consider the necessities for life on Earth may not be so on ther planets or in other galaxies. These extraterrestrials may very well require different needs to sustain their life than we do. Being a skeptic is okay, in fact that is what makes science, science. But please do not just simply disregard something because it has not been proven.

    Certainly there must be some kind of standard we must hold life on, so why not start with the standards that we have here on Earth. But did you ever stop to wonder that it seems kind of silly to think that out of the millions of planets and galaxies in our universe, that our's is the only one capable of supporting life? I will reiterate this again, as I feel I need to, "Just because something has not been proven to exist, it is not a certain fact that it doesn't."

    And yes, I also agree with Steven Hawking. There is a vast possibility that there exist intelligent life in our universe, the likes of which are vastly more intelligent than us.

    I am a believer in the Ancient Astornaut theory. I feel that there is a large chance that this "God" the bible speaks of is simply man's attempt to explain extraterrestrial beings that we could not comprehend or understand. Look at the exact precision invovled with the construction of the pyramids. From everything we know of Ancient civilization, the Egyptians did not have the technology in 3000 B.C. to build them. How could they have acheived such a lasting feet without alien intervention.

    And yes llama, although your post was intended to lighten the mood, there is already a possibility that aliens exist among us, as sort of a system of watchers. If they are as advanced as many sources suggest, they could be using some sort of device to blend into our society, or they may have even evolved the ability to do so on their own. They could be relaying information about our civilazation/planet back to thier home world.

    As for my last theory, well this is a ground shaker. What if we are a colonial world? I mean think about it. We have had to build our civilization from the ground up. From the most base technologies to the marvels we have today. Relating this to religion; What about the Adam and Eve story? Is it possible that they were the original colonists for our alien homeworld. That they were gifted with abilities that far superceded our own. It would explain the fact, as to why modern humans only use ~15% of thier brain. What is the rest of that gray matter for; better yet what was it used for? It very well could of been that over time, and thorugh the ever increasing march of technology that, we have lost most of our brains abilities, as they were simply no longer needed in a technologically advanced world. If we could somehow unlock these extra portions of our brain, the effects could be substantially beneficial to our species. Perhaps we feel this link to the universe, as some sort of bond to our homeworld or master species. It has been proven that there exists a bond between all humans on Earth, and it is best evidenced between twins. When one feels pain, the other feels it. This could also be used to support the theories in the bible, as well as modern day science. The bible is not difinitive fact, it was written by man, and as such it may very well contain errors.

    Now before this comes off as rambling nonsense, I want to add that I have given considerable thought and study to this subject. Most of these are my personal beliefs, mingled with opinions from greateer minds than my own. But brad, all I ask is that you open up your mind to the possibility that there may be other life in the universe than our own.
    Gollum, thank you for articulating this theory so well. I wrote an extensive paper in 10th grade for Earth Science postulating this very subject. We actually had a lively debate on this subject in class in 1972. Most of the students in the class could care less, but the teacher was fascinated by the theory. And, I did get an A.

    Sent via Note II
    palandri and gollum18 like this.
    07-08-2013 05:29 PM
  20. badbrad17's Avatar
    One is logical, one is not. I can look up in the sky, see all the stars with my own two eyes. Then I can logically conclude that there must be planets around those stars too, not just my own. (now verified). The next step in that logical progression is that there must be life too. Now I am not saying their are aliens in spaceships...just life in general. I cannot make the same logic with stories about talking snakes, parting waters, humans with vastly longer lifespans, a God that needed to drown everything in sight, even babies and little animals who couldn't have possibly done anything wrong. (And that's just a partial list).

    Now, it should be noted that the same stars that I can see with my own two eyes also give me perspective in our place in the universe.... extremely small. I think religion has elevated man's place in the universe quite a lot in a very arrogant and self-centered way. In much the same way the heavens were thought to spin around the earth, because we were THAT imporant. Actually, no..we're not. We're just floating on a life raft, same as anyone else might be in the sea of the universe.
    This is a very good video which does go over a lot of the things you have mentioned. It is only part one of a longer series but Chuck Missler is a very respected author and engineer who teaches on different scientific topics. Much of what he discusses is based on secular findings.

    Every day i watch this stuff wish I was smarter.

    It is an hour long so if you don't want to watch it all I would start around 46:26



    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 05:30 PM
  21. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Since the subject has turned to taking about aliens in spaceships...I give you today's input on the subject from Google:



    Celebrate the Roswell UFO incident by playing Google's doodle game

    A very appropriate day to be having this conversation!
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 05:37 PM
  22. msndrstood's Avatar
    Like i said earlier, there was no bigger Atheist than me, for thirty of my forty years. I used to utilize all of AngelArs' "powerpoints". But my wife has gradually been causing me (brainwashing?) me to "have an open mind" in the spiritual (God, bible etc) direction. Anybody can tell anybody that doesn't agree with them that they don't have an open mind. Where does this cycle end?

    Has anyone read the link i posted at the end of the other page? It shows the intelligence needed just to make a living cell, let alone all the planets and galaxies.
    http://www.creationism.org/heinze/SciEvidGodLife.htm

    It was too heavily creationist for me, but it was a interesting read, but very looooong.

    And there is a difference for me between religious and spiritual. You can be spiritual without being religious. I have no problem with spirituality, it's the organized religion part that I have problems with.

    Sent via Note II
    palandri and Wiley_11 like this.
    07-08-2013 05:39 PM
  23. llamabreath's Avatar
    I am now at the point where i have to wonder; How can anyone believe everything happened by accident? For example: Think of all the various survival mechanisms there are in the animal kingdom. EVERY single species has something unique about it to help it survive. Lizards too. Birds too. Even insects.
    Each have something very unique and ingenious to help it live.

    How about the solar systems? Is there anything more guaranteed than the sun rising tomorrow morning? The sun setting tomorrow evening? Do you think you can count on it? Of course you could! Do you think all this happened accidently? When was an accident ever so perfect?

    Wiley_11 likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:40 PM
  24. msndrstood's Avatar
    I am now at the point where i have to wonder; How can anyone believe everything happened by accident? For example: Think of all the various survival mechanisms there are in the animal kingdom. EVERY single species has something unique about it to help it survive. Lizards too. Birds too. Even insects.
    Each have something very unique and ingenious to help it live.

    How about the solar systems? Is there anything more guaranteed than the sun rising tomorrow morning? The sun setting tomorrow evening? Do you think you can count on it? Of course you could! Do you think all this happened accidently? When was an accident ever so perfect?

    I'd like to answer this one day when I'm feeling a little more literate. Today isn't that day.

    Sent via Note II
    Wiley_11 likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:45 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Question, how is it easier to believe in aliens when the only proof about them are from someone's writings, but not about god, Buddha, Muhammad, etc when the only proof about them are from writings?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
    One requires abandoning logic in favor of magic, while the other only requires a basic understanding of probabilities to think it possible.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:46 PM
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