07-08-2013 11:52 PM
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  1. Oofa's Avatar
    So because I believe in God I'm unreasonable? So I believe God exists and he is the architect of the world I see before me. You believe that a big ball of gas exploded and that is responsible for the world you see before you. I fail to see how this makes me unreasonable.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Yes. Believing in God makes you unreasonable. Just as believing that you know how the world started makes you unreasonable. You can have a good time and feel warm and cozy thinking up all the magical theories you want but you still don't know that God exists. You just believe that he does.

    I never said I believe that "a big ball of gas exploded" and that's how the world started. I have no idea how the world started. The fact that I don't know how the world started does not make the existence of God a reality. The difference is that I haven't swallowed any of the unprovable fairy tales told to me.
    AngelArs likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:47 PM
  2. zmann's Avatar
    Read the book chariots of the gods. Great read. It will blow your mind. You don't want to know know my opinion on religions. Lol

    Note 2,,ITS TRUE, SIZE IS EVERYTHING.
    07-08-2013 05:48 PM
  3. badbrad17's Avatar
    Since the subject has turned to taking about aliens in spaceships...I give you today's input on the subject from Google:

    http://voices.mydesert.com/wp-conten...odle-alien.jpg

    Celebrate the Roswell UFO incident by playing Google's doodle game

    A very appropriate day to be having this conversation!
    Ha ha. Awesome.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    gollum18 likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:48 PM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    While its obviously true that, "if the conditions weren't thus, we couldn't be here to talk about them", knowing that is merely an understanding of probability and doesn't provide any clue in itself about how they became thus.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-08-2013 05:53 PM
  5. badbrad17's Avatar
    It was too heavily creationist for me, but it was a interesting read, but very looooong.

    And there is a difference for me between religious and spiritual. You can be spiritual without being religious. I have no problem with spirituality, it's the organized religion part that I have problems with.

    Sent via Note II
    Where does truth fit in to this for you? I'm not judging what you think is truth, but some people are very open to anything. There is tons of logic and science to an intelligent design. It's not all religion and Bible talk. There are plenty of non Christian scientists that believe in intelligent design.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 05:53 PM
  6. badbrad17's Avatar
    Yes. Believing in God makes you unreasonable. Just as believing that you know how the world started makes you unreasonable. You can have a good time and feel warm and cozy thinking up all the magical theories you want but you still don't know that God exists. You just believe that he does.

    I never said I believe that "a big ball of gas exploded" and that's how the world started. I have no idea how the world started. The fact that I don't know how the world started does not make the existence of God a reality. The difference is that I haven't swallowed any of the unprovable fairy tales told to me.
    This is the very reason for this thread. No need to snap, let's just explain what we believe so we can have a good discussion.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:54 PM
  7. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Trying to get a christian to buy into the alien theory is no different than the christian approaching you with the God theory. I have never seen God. I have never seen an alien. We know that there are other planets and stars. There are churches all over the face of the planet. By this theory if other planets suggests aliens exist then churches suggest God exists. Just my opinion.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-08-2013 05:55 PM
  8. badbrad17's Avatar
    @BadBrad17, Serious question, does the Bible say why dinosaurs were on earth before man?
    Nothing says that dinosaurs existed before man. I believe that man and dinosaurs existed together. Dinosaurs are just big lizards that couldn't exist after the flood or ice age. Crocodiles and Kamodo dragons are good examples of dinosaurs imo. Many Christians are very ignorant on this subject.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 05:59 PM
  9. badbrad17's Avatar
    This is a good post. There are many similar concepts like it. Michael Behe wrote on this concept called Darwins black box. He expressed why he felt that the cell could not be randomly created. Check it out.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 06:04 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    Nothing says that dinosaurs existed before man. I believe that man and dinosaurs existed together. Dinosaurs are just big lizards that couldn't exist after the flood or ice age. Crocodiles and Kamodo dragons are good examples of dinosaurs imo. Many Christians are very ignorant on this subject.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    This is a good example of why we need to vastly increase scientific literacy. With good science teachers, a 7 year old should know that is false and a 10 year old should be able to explain why. Instead, with kid gloves to religion, they want to explain both positions as if they were equal theories. As an adult if you want to abandon facts and put your eggs in the religion basket, that's your choice and one to be respected by a freedom loving society. But we're failing our kids by pushing this on them before they're too young to decide for themselves if they want a paradigm formed around magic or physics.
    GadgetGator and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 06:08 PM
  11. Wiley_11's Avatar
    Do you think all this happened accidently? When was an accident ever so perfect?
    Yes and Now........ Nobody can prove anything one way or the other. I don't really care how I got to the party, it's been a blast so far.
    Aquila and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 06:10 PM
  12. primevyl's Avatar
    I

    If you had never seen an automobile before and landed on a planet with a car in front of you, would you automatically think that this machine was the making of random chance? I highly doubt it. When we examine the machine we realize that the battery is a individual thing that has an individual purpose, but also serves a purpose in running the car. Same with the gas tank, pistons etc. Without the battery the car doesn't work. So what came first and what was the cause of the independent parts? Random chance only works for me when the math is reasonable. Once it gets to the billions of billions my faith just can't handle those kinds of odds.




    Sent from my Nexus 4
    That is actually an awesome analogy

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-08-2013 06:11 PM
  13. msndrstood's Avatar
    Where does truth fit in to this for you? I'm not judging what you think is truth, but some people are very open to anything. There is tons of logic and science to an intelligent design. It's not all religion and Bible talk. There are plenty of non Christian scientists that believe in intelligent design.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    I don't know about tons of logic and science in intelligent design, but if there is a God, he is definitely into math.

    On a better day, I could give a better answer.

    Sent via Note II
    palandri and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 06:12 PM
  14. Aquila's Avatar
    Intelligent design either requires qualification into a deistic principle of master physicist who is then hands off, or it fails with one question.... if everything is designed perfectly by a perfect creator, why does it evolve at all? Why are 99% of the species that have roamed even our one tiny planet already extinct? Were those mistakes?
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-08-2013 06:21 PM
  15. badbrad17's Avatar
    This is intended for you to read brad, but others feel free to comment on it.

    Its typical to fear something you do not understand, but to dismiss the theory alltogether, that's just nonsense. How can you be for certain that something is 100% fantasy if you are ready to dismiss it so quickly. What we consider the necessities for life on Earth may not be so on ther planets or in other galaxies. These extraterrestrials may very well require different needs to sustain their life than we do. Being a skeptic is okay, in fact that is what makes science, science. But please do not just simply disregard something because it has not been proven.
    Thanks for this post. Very well thought out.

    Well first of all I need to say that (as you've probably noticed) I've made a lot of posts. Thank the spiritual entity of your choice that I'm on holidays. Anyway some things I've commented on may have been missed as there is still some discussion going on at the DOMA Prop 8 thread.

    I did make a post regarding my view on aliens on one of these. My take on it isn't that I disregard the possibility of other beings because I do believe in other beings but I don't believe that these beings would exist outside of the boundaries of the God of the Bible. For example the bible talks about a race called the Nephilim in Genesis which are believed to be other spiritual beings that came to earth. Many theologians believe that they were fallen angels that came to earth to try to corrupt humans and breed with human women. It is a very strange yet very interesting. Google it. There is also documentation of these creatures in other Sumerian writings. Some theologians believe that this was the reason that God decided to flood the earth. That the interbreeding of Nephilim with humans had created these giants that were filled with corruption that was irreparable.

    Certainly there must be some kind of standard we must hold life on, so why not start with the standards that we have here on Earth. But did you ever stop to wonder that it seems kind of silly to think that out of the millions of planets and galaxies in our universe, that our's is the only one capable of supporting life? I will reiterate this again, as I feel I need to, "Just because something has not been proven to exist, it is not a certain fact that it doesn't."
    I agree. In fact if you watch this video you will find that we have an insatiable nature desire to explore and learn. Watch from 46:26


    We do need to place judgment on what makes sense for us. There are so many theories both in science and religion that are just that... Theories. Both are in many ways science. Some are historical, others chemical and some philosophical. We don't have all the answers. But we can use certain techniques to gauge the validity of something and measure the probability of the theory. We do this every day. So for me I can look at lots of scientific evidence and see how God controls this. You may hear the same evidence and make a different judgment. This is our choice and freewill.

    And yes, I also agree with Steven Hawking. There is a vast possibility that there exist intelligent life in our universe, the likes of which are vastly more intelligent than us.
    This again is still just theory. A great one by a very smart person, but one that will have different personal outcomes. Again totally okay and totally our freewill to decide our position.

    I am a believer in the Ancient Astronaut theory. I feel that there is a large chance that this "God" the bible speaks of is simply man's attempt to explain extraterrestrial beings that we could not comprehend or understand. Look at the exact precision involved with the construction of the pyramids. From everything we know of Ancient civilization, the Egyptians did not have the technology in 3000 B.C. to build them. How could they have achieved such a lasting feet without alien intervention.
    Excellent question and one that I think can be explained 2 ways. Again this is only based on my opinion on what I have read and made my possible conclusion.

    1. I have mentioned in other posts that I believe that Adam and Eve were perfectly created. Basically super healthy, super smart and super cute (lol). This is where we started as people. After this point we began slowly to die and decay. We basically brought disease and entropy into play. But humans were much more advanced at least in the realm of what the world was at that time. There are these crazy discoveries that use logic we haven't thought of and we go "wow" that's amazing. But if we lived in a purely organic environment and our intelligence lead us to invent water pipes that flowed uphill or pyramids or magnificent cities like Atlantis then society would be taken down at different path than our current one.

    Where it gets really interesting is when we ask why we are different and have no understanding of these discoveries. I believe that once the Global flood occurred we lost lots of things that had been learned. And it also explains why there are legends about strange cities like Atlantis. Noahs family very well may have known or visited this city. But as the legend says, it was buried under water. The typography of the land changed and the city was lost. The pyramids were not yet they remain a question mark because the remaining people after the flood did not have the knowledge of that area.

    2. The other possibility is that the Nephilim were involved. They were advanced beings that used their intelligence to create some of these things we have discovered.

    3.It could also be a combination of both 1 and 2.

    And yes llama, although your post was intended to lighten the mood, there is already a possibility that aliens exist among us, as sort of a system of watchers. If they are as advanced as many sources suggest, they could be using some sort of device to blend into our society, or they may have even evolved the ability to do so on their own. They could be relaying information about our civilazation/planet back to thier home world.
    It could also be argued that these beings could be what the Bible calls Angels. Both good or evil.

    As for my last theory, well this is a ground shaker. What if we are a colonial world? I mean think about it. We have had to build our civilization from the ground up. From the most base technologies to the marvels we have today. Relating this to religion; What about the Adam and Eve story? Is it possible that they were the original colonists for our alien homeworld. That they were gifted with abilities that far superceded our own. It would explain the fact, as to why modern humans only use ~15% of thier brain. What is the rest of that gray matter for; better yet what was it used for? It very well could of been that over time, and thorugh the ever increasing march of technology that, we have lost most of our brains abilities, as they were simply no longer needed in a technologically advanced world. If we could somehow unlock these extra portions of our brain, the effects could be substantially beneficial to our species. Perhaps we feel this link to the universe, as some sort of bond to our homeworld or master species. It has been proven that there exists a bond between all humans on Earth, and it is best evidenced between twins. When one feels pain, the other feels it. This could also be used to support the theories in the bible, as well as modern day science. The bible is not difinitive fact, it was written by man, and as such it may very well contain errors.
    Okay ironically I had not read this part of your post until after I wrote my other answers. I think you really have a great theoretical assessment with the one missing part which is... how does the Bible relate to this? The bible says that we were created in God's image. Well what if our brains are only a fraction of what his is? Or maybe we are just unable to grasp the unlimited power of what our brains can accomplish in their true form. Perhaps this will be revealed when we get to Heaven? Food for thought.

    I will also say that I believe that this is also another reason why evolution stumbles as a theory. If we have evolved, why would our brains be more advanced than what we are using. It's an oxymoron.

    Now before this comes off as rambling nonsense, I want to add that I have given considerable thought and study to this subject. Most of these are my personal beliefs, mingled with opinions from greater minds than my own. But brad, all I ask is that you open up your mind to the possibility that there may be other life in the universe than our own.
    I think that we are mostly lost in terminology. God created it all. What we discover is available to us. I just don't believe there is another life form like ours out there. The science is just not able to support it. If these things are acidic jellyfish with wings that eat rocks then perhaps then I would suppose that God opted to do it differently somewhere else.

    Thanks for the chat. Much respect. :thumbup:

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    msndrstood and gollum18 like this.
    07-08-2013 07:07 PM
  16. gollum18's Avatar
    Stop beating around the bush, Gollum, are you an alien or not?

    Is this a trick question, if so you'll elicit no response from me.
    Aquila, AngelArs and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 07:24 PM
  17. gollum18's Avatar
    It was too heavily creationist for me, but it was a interesting read, but very looooong.

    And there is a difference for me between religious and spiritual. You can be spiritual without being religious. I have no problem with spirituality, it's the organized religion part that I have problems with.

    Sent via Note II
    I agree. There's also a very fiine line between organized religion and a cultist society. Not making any accuasations here I swear.
    msndrstood and badbrad17 like this.
    07-08-2013 07:31 PM
  18. badbrad17's Avatar
    That is actually an awesome analogy

    <<<Sent from my Rooted (soon to be) 64+ gig Rezound!>>>
    I wish I had thought of it. Truthfully I think I stole it from someone smarter than me.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-08-2013 08:45 PM
  19. badbrad17's Avatar
    I don't know about tons of logic and science in intelligent design, but if there is a God, he is definitely into math.

    On a better day, I could give a better answer.

    Sent via Note II
    I think if you were to do some searching you would find lots of it.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    07-08-2013 08:48 PM
  20. AngelArs's Avatar
    This is 100% fantasy.
    Famous last words.

    Proof?
    Of what? I would think it would be common sense of what Stephen Hawking already said. Have you ever squished a bug? Same difference, only this time we'd be the bug. Ouch.
    07-08-2013 08:52 PM
  21. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Everyone says dinosaurs lived millions of years before man. How come scientists have found dinosaur footprints on top of humans Fossilized? How come in 1977 Japanese fishing nets caught the decaying body of a plesiosaur? How come all dinosaurs that are alive today, lived in water? Interesting stuff indeed.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    07-08-2013 08:58 PM
  22. Aquila's Avatar
    lol this thread doesn't need a debate, it just needs some science education. I have a feeling if one actually understands the science then they are less inclined to try to find discrepancies between dreams and reality.
    AngelArs likes this.
    07-08-2013 09:07 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    Everyone says dinosaurs lived millions of years before man. How come scientists have found dinosaur footprints on top of humans Fossilized? How come in 1977 Japanese fishing nets caught the decaying body of a plesiosaur? How come all dinosaurs that are alive today, lived in water? Interesting stuff indeed.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Paluxy Dinosaur/"Man Track" controversy

    There are thousands of articles about the 1977 "plesiosaur", which scientists almost universally agree was likely a shark. Sea-Monster or Shark: An Alleged Plesiosaur Carcass The most important part is the conclusion:

    Conclusions


    Several lines of evidence strongly indicate that the Zuiyo-maru carcass was a large shark, and most likely a basking shark, rather than a plesiosaur. Those giving the opposite impression have done so by telling only part of the story, or mischaracterizing portions of the evidence. To help set the record straight, such authors should correct any misleading statements of the past on this issue, and refrain from any further suggestions that the carcass was a likely plesiosaur.

    07-08-2013 09:15 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    Intelligent design either requires qualification into a deistic principle of master physicist who is then hands off, or it fails with one question.... if everything is designed perfectly by a perfect creator, why does it evolve at all? Why are 99% of the species that have roamed even our one tiny planet already extinct? Were those mistakes?
    I don't think anyone has implied/stated that everything was designed perfectly by a perfect creator. What was brought out was that there had to be intelligence in the design.

    07-08-2013 09:15 PM
  25. AngelArs's Avatar
    We may be able to discover death and how it works but it is inevitable that our bodies will not last forever.
    Give it time. Just last week they announced that they found a way to make the dna last twice as long and now it will be possible for humans to live up to 200 years. I know that's not forever but it does show a growing trend.

    We will only prove what God already told us.
    Don't start, we've been over this before
    07-08-2013 09:17 PM
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