11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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  1. qxr's Avatar
    I think the single best thing for government would be changing the structure. Impose term limits, and ELIMINATE the electoral college. Figure out a way to get money out of politics. Money corrupts.

    Posted via Android Central App
    If we eliminate the electoral college then all the major cities will control the presidential elections...imagine nyc chicago sanfran and la telling all of us who will be president every 4 years.
    We need stricter enforcement to prevent foreign money from tainting our elections again.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    09-25-2013 09:22 AM
  2. llamabreath's Avatar
    Applebee's could care less about the health and welfare of their employees, they only care about their profits...
    You do know that Applebee's and EVERY OTHER BUSINESS is in business in order to make a PROFIT, don't you? That's the definition of a 'business'. Why the hell would anyone want to be in a business if there is no profit?

    At what intersection does business and patriotism meet? If you want to be patriotic, then join the Army or throw on some cleats and play for the Patriots.

    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    09-25-2013 09:23 AM
  3. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I disagree. I think it has everything to do with Patriotism. National Health Care is the law of the land. It was voted in democratically, and these businesses are doing everything within their power to avoid the law that was democratically passed. Take a look at Applebee's that Jennifer works for. They have an operating income of $1.3 billion and a net income $81 million and 30,000 employees. To me, Applebee's could care less about the health and welfare of their employees, they only care about their profits, just like any sweatshop in the 3rd world.

    We don't need businesses that put profits before people.
    EVERY BUSINESS puts profits before ppl as the rest of my post you did not post points out. A business has to have profit. It does not have to have people.

    Do you take deductions on your taxes? It is the same exact thing. Businesses are legally doing everything they can to be successful. Success is measured in profit, not happy employees. Anyone that tells you different either knows nothing about business or wants you to think that their "good" company so you give them your money.

    This is all intelligent design. The writers of this bill knew that it would force businesses to cut healthcare and take penalties or cut hours. Anyone that is not legally retarded knew this was going to happen from the beginning. It is exactly what the bill was meant to do...
    09-25-2013 09:24 AM
  4. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I bet many can afford it, during our recession our engineering companies complained they had to win state projects and cut of employees to make a profit.... they made a record profit and than sacked 1/2 the office infavour of hiring more in their office in India, I hear the same companies office in Canada got hit hard too! I think Obama care needs its own thread.
    Sounds to me like they make a good business move. Down size and focus to be successful.
    09-25-2013 09:26 AM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    You do know that Applebee's and EVERY OTHER BUSINESS is in business in order to make a PROFIT, don't you? That's the definition of a 'business'. Why the hell would anyone want to be in a business if there is no profit?

    At what intersection does business and patriotism meet? If you want to be patriotic, then join the Army or throw on some cleats and play for the Patriots.

    ••
    LOL! Of course I realize that business want to make a profit. Health Insurance companies are now required to pay 80% of the money paid in to health care, if they don't it's refunded to the consumer. The missing 20% is their operating expenses and profits. Health Insurance companies will still be profitable.

    The question of patriotism comes up when the democratically written law of land is avoided.
    09-25-2013 09:30 AM
  6. NoYankees44's Avatar
    If we eliminate the electoral college then all the major cities will control the presidential elections...imagine nyc chicago sanfran and la telling all of us who will be president every 4 years.
    We need stricter enforcement to prevent foreign money from tainting our elections again.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    Its kind of like that now anyway. Less directly, but ya know. Look into the election of 1876 if you think that the electoral college has to listen to its electorate.
    gamefreak715 and qxr like this.
    09-25-2013 09:31 AM
  7. NoYankees44's Avatar
    LOL! Of course I realize that business want to make a profit. Health Insurance companies are now required to pay 80% of the money paid in to health care, if they don't it's refunded to the consumer. The missing 20% is their operating expenses and profits. Health Insurance companies will still be profitable.

    The question of patriotism comes up when the democratically written law of land is avoided.
    They are not breaking any laws. They are LEGALLY avoiding expensies forced by the government. Just like you(i assume) and everyone else take deductions on their taxes. We are all legally avoiding the "law of the land" as you put it.

    Wake up. This is all how the politicians planned it to be. If they really wanted the businesses to not take advantage of the loop holes, they would not have written them.
    qxr likes this.
    09-25-2013 09:40 AM
  8. msndrstood's Avatar
    You do know that Applebee's and EVERY OTHER BUSINESS is in business in order to make a PROFIT, don't you? That's the definition of a 'business'. Why the hell would anyone want to be in a business if there is no profit?

    At what intersection does business and patriotism meet? If you want to be patriotic, then join the Army or throw on some cleats and play for the Patriots.

    Like Papa John's owner? He himself admitted that it would cost an extra .14 per pizza to comply with the ACA. Have you seen the castle he lives in?! Please, it's not hurting his bottom line.

    http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/...iew/?service=1

    Sent via Note II
    palandri and Fairclough like this.
    09-25-2013 09:42 AM
  9. gamefreak715's Avatar
    Its kind of like that now anyway. Less directly, but ya know. Look into the election of 1876 if you think that the electoral college has to listen to its electorate.
    Right. Look at how often candidates visit the non-swing states. Rarely in comparison. I think the system is particularly wrong in winner take all states because that just ignores the wishes of up to 49.9% of its people. The electoral college was just for simplicity in voting. With modern technology in voting booths, we know the popular vote count very rapidly. Why wouldn't a popular vote work? Cities and states shouldnt determine our elected officials, it should be a government by the people, elected directly by us. In fact, put most of the bigger ballot measures on the form too (gun control, healthcare, taxes, etc) and you can get the true opinion of Americans without the lobby influence.

    Posted via Android Central App
    09-25-2013 09:42 AM
  10. palandri's Avatar
    EVERY BUSINESS puts profits before ppl as the rest of my post you did not post points out. A business has to have profit. It does not have to have people.

    Do you take deductions on your taxes? It is the same exact thing. Businesses are legally doing everything they can to be successful. Success is measured in profit, not happy employees. Anyone that tells you different either knows nothing about business or wants you to think that their "good" company so you give them your money.

    This is all intelligent design. The writers of this bill knew that it would force businesses to cut healthcare and take penalties or cut hours. Anyone that is not legally retarded knew this was going to happen from the beginning. It is exactly what the bill was meant to do...
    We are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, and we'll never agree. No use debating about it. I am simply a blue collar, working class, union electrician that thinks, "we" rather than "me" and puts people before profits.
    msndrstood, Fairclough and rawvega like this.
    09-25-2013 09:44 AM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    The question of patriotism comes up when the democratically written law of land is avoided.
    You keep saying "democratically written".... If so, why did Pelosi have to say, "If you want to see what's in it (the legislation), you have to pass it."

    What kinda BS is that????

    Not only that, but the majority of WE THE PEOPLE have been against it in virtually every poll.



    qxr likes this.
    09-25-2013 09:46 AM
  12. palandri's Avatar
    You keep saying "democratically written".... If so, why did Pelosi have to say, "If you want to see what's in it (the legislation), you have to pass it."

    What kinda BS is that????

    Not only that, but the majority of WE THE PEOPLE have been against it in virtually every poll.



    ••
    You don't think that statement was taken out of content? Pelosi defends her infamous health care remark - PostPartisan - The Washington Post

    If every poll tells you the majority of people are against it, then there will be a lot politicians voted out in the next election and Ted Cruz and the Tea Party will repeal it.
    09-25-2013 10:00 AM
  13. NoYankees44's Avatar
    We are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, and we'll never agree. No use debating about it. I am simply a blue collar, working class, union electrician that thinks, "we" rather than "me" and puts people before profits.
    I understand what you are saying and can respectfully disagree, but there is really nothing to disagree on when you are talking about the fundamental purpose of business.

    I agree that employers should give benefits to employees, but not because it is the morally "right" thing do. They should do it to ensure better work, loyalty and healthier/happier workers. That way their profits are increased with better quality work and low turnover. You see the theme here? Everything is about the bottom line. Even if you have to spend more on workers, that is to ensure better profits for you in other ways.
    09-25-2013 10:03 AM
  14. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Like Papa John's owner? He himself admitted that it would cost an extra .14 per pizza to comply with the ACA. Have you seen the castle he lives in?! Please, it's not hurting his bottom line.

    John Schnatter's House (Bing Maps) - Virtual Globetrotting

    Sent via Note II
    And its none of your business how much he makes or what kind of house he lives in just like it is none of my business whether or not you get a shiny 700$ cell phone or a 2 year old flip phone that is free. He owns the business and can do what ever he pleases within the law.
    qxr likes this.
    09-25-2013 10:06 AM
  15. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    All of you jumping on these business owners, you realize you are sounding just like a socialist. These companies aren't in business to spread the wealth. They have a bottom line. And by the way, how patriotic is it to ram an unconstitutional healthcare law down the throats of the american people...smh

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    qxr likes this.
    09-25-2013 10:18 AM
  16. palandri's Avatar
    All of you jumping on these business owners, you realize you are sounding just like a socialist. These companies aren't in business to spread the wealth. They have a bottom line. And by the way, how patriotic is it to ram an unconstitutional healthcare law down the throats of the american people...smh

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Does the word Socialism scare you? Our military is ran by the government, that's Socialism. Would it be better if we hire privately employed mercenaries so someone can make a profit off it? The city I live in owns the Water Department, that's Socialism. Publicly owned vs privately owned. Socialism leans towards public ownership. Capitalism leans towards private ownership.

    It kills me how people will say the government can't run anything right. So if you took those 10 or 100 or 1000 government employees and put them in a privately owned company, somehow fairy dust is sprinkled on them and they suddenly become more efficient and effective.

    The unconstitutional health care law you talk about was upheld by a conservative Supreme Court.
    msndrstood and Fairclough like this.
    09-25-2013 10:39 AM
  17. qxr's Avatar
    Imagine if they told the entertainnent industry they made enough. They needed to share the wealth with the extras on sets,etc. Why isn't there a cry about Hollywood ceos, or big name celebrities making enough money.
    You have the right to pursue happiness. Get off your rear asset and enjoy your own pursuit.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    NoYankees44 likes this.
    09-25-2013 10:46 AM
  18. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Does the word Socialism scare you? Our military is ran by the government, that's Socialism. Would it be better if we hire privately employed mercenaries so someone can make a profit off it? The city I live in owns the Water Department, that's Socialism. Publicly owned vs privately owned. Socialism leans towards public ownership. Capitalism leans towards private ownership.

    It kills me how people will say the government can't run anything right. So if you took those 10 or 100 or 1000 government employees and put them in a privately owned company, somehow fairy dust is sprinkled on them and they suddenly become more efficient and effective.

    The unconstitutional health care law you talk about was upheld by a conservative Supreme Court.
    The government is there to do what the private sector cannot do, will not do, or should not do. The military qualifies as should not do. The reason simply being corruption. Police force is the same thing.

    It is proven time and time again that private companies are more efficient that government run organizations as long as there is competition to stimulate them. Most of the examples of this not being true were caused by the government screwing with the market by choosing winners with subsidies or regulation.

    When employees have to compete with each other and can easily be fired for lacking performance, they work harder. Also, when someone is constantly worried about turing a profit, they tend to make sure the people that work for them are being as productive as possible. These are both usually not true in government run organizations. It cant be true with the way the funding is bureaucratically handed out and when if they need more they can just take all they need from citizens or print more.


    And the healthcare law was explicitly upheld because it was considered to be a tax. This is contrary to everything all the supporters of it said and continue to say. If it is not a tax then it is not lawful by that ruling. So the man that ran on the platform that he would never increase taxes on the middle/lower class effectively signed the largest tax increase in history. But you dont see that all over the news much, all you see is "Upheld." Instead of "Upheld because it is a Tax Increase"
    qxr likes this.
    09-25-2013 11:05 AM
  19. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Does the word Socialism scare you? Our military is ran by the government, that's Socialism. Would it be better if we hire privately employed mercenaries so someone can make a profit off it? The city I live in owns the Water Department, that's Socialism. Publicly owned vs privately owned. Socialism leans towards public ownership. Capitalism leans towards private ownership.

    It kills me how people will say the government can't run anything right. So if you took those 10 or 100 or 1000 government employees and put them in a privately owned company, somehow fairy dust is sprinkled on them and they suddenly become more efficient and effective.

    The unconstitutional health care law you talk about was upheld by a conservative Supreme Court.
    Yes...socialism doesent work. Its world proven and the further down the road toward socialism we are going, the worse things get. The evidence is everywhere.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    qxr likes this.
    09-25-2013 11:13 AM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    Like Papa John's owner? He himself admitted that it would cost an extra .14 per pizza to comply with the ACA. Have you seen the castle he lives in?! Please, it's not hurting his bottom line.

    http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/...iew/?service=1

    Sent via Note II
    Did someone give him that "castle" or did he EARN it?

    cdmjlt369 and qxr like this.
    09-25-2013 11:18 AM
  21. llamabreath's Avatar
    We are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, and we'll never agree. No use debating about it. I am simply a blue collar, working class, union electrician that thinks, "we" rather than "me" and puts people before profits.
    I'm blue collar too.
    I was in a union for 17 years in New York before i moved down south. I work outside in all kinds of weather with cars, trucks & buses zipping by me while i do my work.

    You don't have to be a white collar stockbroker to be conservative.

    qxr and cdmjlt369 like this.
    09-25-2013 11:51 AM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    Yes...socialism doesent work. Its world proven and the further down the road toward socialism we are going, the worse things get. The evidence is everywhere.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    So since my city owns the water department, I should tell them that it doesn't work and it's world proven? and they need to give it to a private company that can make a profit off it? My wife is French and although the last time WHO rated the France National health care system the best in the world, she should tell the French government that it doesn't work and it's world proven? so they need to go back to privatization in health care?

    Now, does that make any sense?

    I really don't think you understand the difference between Socialism and Capitalism. Break the words down. Social means people, Capital means money. Publicly owned vs Privately owned. That's all it is. Services can run efficiently and effectively either way.
    msndrstood and Fairclough like this.
    09-25-2013 01:20 PM
  23. palandri's Avatar
    And its none of your business how much he makes or what kind of house he lives in just like it is none of my business whether or not you get a shiny 700$ cell phone or a 2 year old flip phone that is free. He owns the business and can do what ever he pleases within the law.
    I have every right to know what a company I patronize with does with "my money" and how they treats their employees to make an educated decision on who I will do business with "my money".

    Sam's Club has the exact same products that Costco does at the same price. Sam's Club pays their employees minimum wage. Costco pays their employees twice that, around $16 an hour, plus have company subsidized benefits. I'll shop at Costco.
    Fairclough likes this.
    09-25-2013 01:32 PM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    I'm blue collar too.
    I was in a union for 17 years in New York before i moved down south. I work outside in all kinds of weather with cars, trucks & buses zipping by me while i do my work.

    You don't have to be a white collar stockbroker to be conservative.

    ••
    Then you must have been in favor of the Bush proposal to eliminate overtime correct? Anti-Teacher Union..etc...?
    09-25-2013 01:39 PM
  25. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I have every right to know what a company I patronize with does with "my money" and how they treats their employees to make an educated decision on who I will do business with "my money".

    Sam's Club has the exact same products that Costco does at the same price. Sam's Club pays their employees minimum wage. Costco pays their employees twice that, around $16 an hour, plus have company subsidized benefits. I'll shop at Costco.
    Actually after you give it to them it's their money and you have no right to know anything about it. The fact that they share what they do with it is their choice(assuming private ownership). Just like your employer has no right to tell you how to spend the money they pay you.

    You of course have the right to choose where you patronize(aka capitalism) and judge companies however you want. It's your money(capitalism) to do with it as you please. They will do the same with their own(not yours) money and company. And if other people choose to patronize a company despite you not wanting to for whatever reason, they can and you have no right to tell them otherwise.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    09-25-2013 01:53 PM
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