11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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  1. palandri's Avatar
    I'd like someone to explain why employers should even be involved in our healthcare AT ALL.

    ••
    At this point in time, I wish they weren't involved, but it has to do with the way our economy and marketplace evolved. Employers started it. Employers added compensation packages to attract and retain the best work force. Doing it through work lowered the price due to group purchasing power. You're probably best off googling that question.
    msndrstood likes this.
    09-25-2013 08:29 PM
  2. Fairclough's Avatar
    Open healthcare insurance across statelines. Allow for real competition. Force tort reform so medicine isn't practiced defensively.
    To the aussie who thinks the U.S. does not have a top notch medical system. You are misinformed. Further we do not refuse care, not even to illegals. We gave high costs because of illegals and outrageous medical malpractice insurance thanks to lawyers and some greed. Force insurance companies to compete and costs will come down. Reform the tort laws and costs will come down.
    As for socialized medicine. ..lol. try getting in line for a CABG surgery in canada versus we can schedule the next day in the U.S. try waiting 6 weeks to see an oncologist in canada to start chemo. Oh, here in the U.S. we can see you within a day or two, not exaggerating, and start chemo immediately. Further a one payer system will kill innovation.
    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    First you can call me by my name, Fairclough, Tom, or whatever variation is fine rather than simply referring as to the Aussie as you might not notice but there are actually quite a few Australians in this neck of the woods (part of the forum). Generally most could take that the wrong way e.g. If I used The chinese person, The American, it sounds wrong. Secondly, on most scares and global standards the US system isn't ranked very well. What was it about 40th in the world? Thats good if you want a mediocre system. Immigrants are not ruining your system, you will find they will pay all the tax's and not get a refund nor additional benefits of social security number, so theoretically they pay more in tax's. You would find your system is expensive as it mainly ran for profit and there isn't really any government institutions for competition e.g. About half our hospitals are government owned. "Reform the tort laws and costs will come down." I think you are seriously uneducated on what the law of torts are, if some does something neglectful its allows you to have compensation for the damage that occurs to you. Its almost necessary since the Donahue V Stephenson case (you might know it as snail in the bottle). It basically is if I got you sick, I would be liable to compensate you for that e.g. pay your medical bill and time out of work. We have a government system and yes we can get chemo the next day, things are prioritized in the public system and the private isn't too expensive ether!

    Does the word Socialism scare you? Our military is ran by the government, that's Socialism. Would it be better if we hire privately employed mercenaries so someone can make a profit off it? The city I live in owns the Water Department, that's Socialism. Publicly owned vs privately owned. Socialism leans towards public ownership. Capitalism leans towards private ownership.

    It kills me how people will say the government can't run anything right. So if you took those 10 or 100 or 1000 government employees and put them in a privately owned company, somehow fairy dust is sprinkled on them and they suddenly become more efficient and effective.

    The unconstitutional health care law you talk about was upheld by a conservative Supreme Court.
    LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE - I unliked it so I could relike it
    So since my city owns the water department, I should tell them that it doesn't work and it's world proven? and they need to give it to a private company that can make a profit off it? My wife is French and although the last time WHO rated the France National health care system the best in the world, she should tell the French government that it doesn't work and it's world proven? so they need to go back to privatization in health care?

    Now, does that make any sense?

    I really don't think you understand the difference between Socialism and Capitalism. Break the words down. Social means people, Capital means money. Publicly owned vs Privately owned. That's all it is. Services can run efficiently and effectively either way.
    Spot on, sorry to go of topic I love their illness and child policies, to
    I have every right to know what a company I patronize with does with "my money" and how they treats their employees to make an educated decision on who I will do business with "my money".

    Sam's Club has the exact same products that Costco does at the same price. Sam's Club pays their employees minimum wage. Costco pays their employees twice that, around $16 an hour, plus have company subsidized benefits. I'll shop at Costco.
    I actually do the same, most the time I try to get direct from the supplier rather than instore - I know its bad but I do it anyways. Your justification is why Nike got the bad name for a bit for saying they dont care about foreign workers.
    At this point in time, I wish they weren't involved, but it has to do with the way our economy and marketplace evolved. Employers started it. Employers added compensation packages to attract and retain the best work force. Doing it through work lowered the price due to group purchasing power. You're probably best off googling that question.
    It could be best if the goverment set up and ran its own hospitals / staffed it could help drive down costs.
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    09-26-2013 12:55 AM
  3. qxr's Avatar
    Fairclough, Tom,
    I apologize. I did not intend to be disrespectful.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    Fairclough likes this.
    09-26-2013 04:28 AM
  4. qxr's Avatar
    First you can call me by my name, Fairclough, Tom, or whatever variation is fine rather than simply referring as to the Aussie as you might not notice but there are actually quite a few Australians in this neck of the woods (part of the forum). Generally most could take that the wrong way e.g. If I used The chinese person, The American, it sounds wrong. Secondly, on most scares and global standards the US system isn't ranked very well. What was it about 40th in the world? Thats good if you want a mediocre system. Immigrants are not ruining your system, you will find they will pay all the tax's and not get a refund nor additional benefits of social security number, so theoretically they pay more in tax's. You would find your system is expensive as it mainly ran for profit and there isn't really any government institutions for competition e.g. About half our hospitals are government owned. "Reform the tort laws and costs will come down." I think you are seriously uneducated on what the law of torts are, if some does something neglectful its allows you to have compensation for the damage that occurs to you. Its almost necessary since the Donahue V Stephenson case (you might know it as snail in the bottle). It basically is if I got you sick, I would be liable to compensate you for that e.g. pay your medical bill and time out of work. We have a government system and yes we can get chemo the next day, things are prioritized in the public system and the private isn't too expensive ether!


    LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE - I unliked it so I could relike it

    Spot on, sorry to go of topic I love their illness and child policies, to

    I actually do the same, most the time I try to get direct from the supplier rather than instore - I know its bad but I do it anyways. Your justification is why Nike got the bad name for a bit for saying they dont care about foreign workers.

    It could be best if the goverment set up and ran its own hospitals / staffed it could help drive down costs.
    I am a medical professional. Yes, in southern California 3 level 1 trauma E.R. shut down due to costs. The strain of illegals using the ER knowing how to fill out paperwork to get out of paying was an enormous factor. Add on to that the workers comp. weight and the E.R. s could not sustain it.
    As for the high number of frivolous lawsuits in california I suggest you check again. Real medical malpractice is not what I was referring to; there is an enormous strain on medicine because of ridiculous claims. In fact, so many OBs were sued by the former senator john edwards that many left that state or stopoed the ob portion of their practice to simply do gyn.
    As far as our ranking...we are a big country everything is taken in to consideration. I do know that when the royal families are in need of medical treatment they come here. This is 1st hand knowledge.



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    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    09-26-2013 04:49 AM
  5. Fairclough's Avatar
    I took no offence, my bad if i jumped on it hard i just thought if it was done by country it could be taken the wrong way. Keyboards are a shame as they don't show face expressions. I think the sheer problem is the whole sector is for profit, if you have a government ran system the private than has to compete at a lower cost and greater efficiency. Japan is a large country too, population size they have one of the best health cares at the lowest costs. The US government itself spends a larger % of its revenue on health care than the public health care systems in countries like my own or france or britian etc. I would say there isn't much of a compromise at all. The only time I have had a wait long than my booking is because my doctor ran up every client he administrated a drug to tell them to rebook and he will change it as it was exposed their was a horrific side effect in some rare cases discovered - so he wanted to prevent that. Which is understandable waiting 5 minutes extra for that.

    End of the day, Doctores here get paid well - not as well in the states for our public system but well. Most I know, say they do it for the love of it rather than the pay cheque.
    I thought, if were talking about the British Royal family, they use the St Mary's Hospital Paddington, london hospital.
    msndrstood likes this.
    09-26-2013 06:02 AM
  6. gollum18's Avatar
    I have a question about obamacare, that is unanswered.

    Does anyone know what will happen to financial aid students, who depend on the government to go to college? Did Obama consider this facet at all?

    I am currently enrolled full time and am not employed. Also no one in my family is capable of work, and we all depend on government aid to live.

    How would I be able to pay the fine for not having healthcare? I mean it seems like a double edged sword. Either I get a job to pay for healthcare that I don't need and drop out of college as I wouldn't be able to attend on minimum wage. Or I refuse to buy healthcare and continue receiving aid and attending college.

    Now you may ask: What is your tuition? Only ~5,500$. Its not much I know, as I attend community college. But I would like to make use of financial aid if I qualify for it.

    I receive pell grants to go to college with. It would be quite nice if financial aid students were able to opt out of the program.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    09-26-2013 09:21 PM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    I have a question about obamacare, that is unanswered.

    Does anyone know what will happen to financial aid students, who depend on the government to go to college? Did Obama consider this facet at all?

    I am currently enrolled full time and am not employed. Also no one in my family is capable of work, and we all depend on government aid to live.

    How would I be able to pay the fine for not having healthcare? I mean it seems like a double edged sword. Either I get a job to pay for healthcare that I don't need and drop out of college as I wouldn't be able to attend on minimum wage. Or I refuse to buy healthcare and continue receiving aid and attending college.

    Now you may ask: What is your tuition? Only ~5,500$. Its not much I know, as I attend community college. But I would like to make use of financial aid if I qualify for it.

    I receive pell grants to go to college with. It would be quite nice if financial aid students were able to opt out of the program.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    Generally low income groups can qualify for medicare or medicaid, depending on demographics and the situation. Other than that coverage, I'm not sure exactly how that is addressed in the bill. There are a lot of pages.
    09-26-2013 09:24 PM
  8. gollum18's Avatar
    Generally low income groups can qualify for medicare or medicaid, depending on demographics and the situation. Other than that coverage, I'm not sure exactly how that is addressed in the bill. There are a lot of pages.
    Thanks nit, we are on medicaid. I however am not covered by it, as I am over 18 and don't have any disabilities to qualify for it.

    My question was more geared towards, how the program affects financial aid students. I appreciate the input, I asked my banker and he looked puzzled, and referred me to ask a health insurance supplier.

    And yeah, I wouldn't want to read a ~4,000 page bill either.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    09-26-2013 09:40 PM
  9. msndrstood's Avatar
    It depends on your state. States that choose to opt in to the Medicaid expansion will allow you to go on Medicaid. If you don't have a job, your below poverty level and would qualify for Medicaid no matter what your age is.

    Sent via Note II
    09-26-2013 10:52 PM
  10. SteveISU's Avatar
    I disagree. I think it has everything to do with Patriotism. National Health Care is the law of the land. It was voted in democratically, and these businesses are doing everything within their power to avoid the law that was democratically passed. Take a look at Applebee's that Jennifer works for. They have an operating income of $1.3 billion and a net income $81 million and 30,000 employees. To me, Applebee's could care less about the health and welfare of their employees, they only care about their profits, just like any sweatshop in the 3rd world.

    We don't need businesses that put profits before people.
    That's a little naive. The law was passed in a half-assed manner because the house couldn't afford to send it back to the Senate because they lost an election they thought they had in a landslide for Kennedy's seat. It was passed 100% unilaterally by one party. Never in the history of our country has a MASSIVE entitlement been passed like that. Not SS, not the great society, nada. As Pelosi sat there and stated, "We have to pass it to find out what's in it? Seriously? A bill that affects 10% of our economy and the lives of everyone and your telling me that instead of taking the time to read it and work on it it we're just gonna pass it and find out what happens? Just to score political points? She should be shot! Every moron who voted for her and anyone like her should be shot.
    09-27-2013 11:54 AM
  11. pappy53's Avatar
    From what I have read, if it comes down to it, the fine is only $95.00. A LOT of young people will take that route, I'm sure.
    09-27-2013 11:56 AM
  12. qxr's Avatar
    Wait until they see the deductible is about $6000...unless you plan on getting hit by a bus every year you are not going to get close to that. So those free things you are getting this is the flip side.
    Fyi...if you are planning on getting hit by a bus yearly, can I be your beneficiary. ..JK

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    09-27-2013 12:47 PM
  13. qxr's Avatar
    Steveisu is completely correct the maneuver they used was previously only used to reconcile budgetary matters. Not a bill that would affect 20% of our economy and 99.9% of the citizens. ..because congress and the pres have been exempted.

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    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    09-27-2013 12:51 PM
  14. llamabreath's Avatar
    Solely, the mere fact that Congress and Prez have exempted themselves, should raise a red flag... let alone passing it without the majority of Americans even wanting it.

    cdmjlt369 and qxr like this.
    09-29-2013 02:41 PM
  15. llamabreath's Avatar
    09-29-2013 11:25 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    Things are a little busy over there at healthcare.gov.

    You're now President of the United States-uploadfromtaptalk1380635915658.jpg

    Sent via Note II
    10-01-2013 08:59 AM
  17. qxr's Avatar
    Sad. The media are so corrupt. The people have almost no chance except to find the bias in the stories for ourselves.

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    10-01-2013 09:29 AM
  18. SteveISU's Avatar
    I have a question about obamacare, that is unanswered.

    Does anyone know what will happen to financial aid students, who depend on the government to go to college? Did Obama consider this facet at all?

    I am currently enrolled full time and am not employed. Also no one in my family is capable of work, and we all depend on government aid to live.

    How would I be able to pay the fine for not having healthcare? I mean it seems like a double edged sword. Either I get a job to pay for healthcare that I don't need and drop out of college as I wouldn't be able to attend on minimum wage. Or I refuse to buy healthcare and continue receiving aid and attending college.

    Now you may ask: What is your tuition? Only ~5,500$. Its not much I know, as I attend community college. But I would like to make use of financial aid if I qualify for it.

    I receive pell grants to go to college with. It would be quite nice if financial aid students were able to opt out of the program.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

    Does your college offer student health insurance? That's option A, B would be for you to apply for public aid yourself.
    10-01-2013 09:34 AM
  19. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I have a question about obamacare, that is unanswered.

    Does anyone know what will happen to financial aid students, who depend on the government to go to college? Did Obama consider this facet at all?

    I am currently enrolled full time and am not employed. Also no one in my family is capable of work, and we all depend on government aid to live.

    How would I be able to pay the fine for not having healthcare? I mean it seems like a double edged sword. Either I get a job to pay for healthcare that I don't need and drop out of college as I wouldn't be able to attend on minimum wage. Or I refuse to buy healthcare and continue receiving aid and attending college.

    Now you may ask: What is your tuition? Only ~5,500$. Its not much I know, as I attend community college. But I would like to make use of financial aid if I qualify for it.

    I receive pell grants to go to college with. It would be quite nice if financial aid students were able to opt out of the program.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    I have gone back and forth about replying to this many times. Please dont take offence to any of my suggestions:

    Why dont you get a job? Lots of people work full time while going to college. Both full time student and part time student. My brother-in-law worked full time while getting an engineering degree of all things. It can be done if you are willing.

    If you are not willing to do both, then why not work and save up for college? Something else people do all the time. I dont know why you would have to go right this second.

    And of course both of these options would open up more doors for health insurance. But you have hit the unconstitutionality of the law. You are now mandated by the government to buy a good/service. And because that service is considered a "tax," the supreme court says it is ok for the government to require it of you.
    10-01-2013 09:53 AM
  20. gollum18's Avatar
    Does your college offer student health insurance? That's option A, B would be for you to apply for public aid yourself.
    No my college doesn't. However I am interested to see if I can get back on my mothers medicaid. The law states that if I live in one of my parents homes and am fully dependant (which I am), that I should be allowed back on till I'm 26. Which of course I wouldn't need it that long, but it would be very helpful to have, as long as I'm in college.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    10-01-2013 10:00 AM
  21. qxr's Avatar
    The first year the fine is only 95. You could consider that option.

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    10-01-2013 10:04 AM
  22. SteveISU's Avatar
    No my college doesn't. However I am interested to see if I can get back on my mothers medicaid. The law states that if I live in one of my parents homes and am fully dependant (which I am), that I should be allowed back on till I'm 26. Which of course I wouldn't need it that long, but it would be very helpful to have, as long as I'm in college.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    I'm not sure that portion applies to public aid, it does for private insurance.
    qxr likes this.
    10-01-2013 10:51 AM
  23. gollum18's Avatar
    I'm not sure that portion applies to public aid, it does for private insurance.
    Who is, with a 4000 page bill. Its worth a shot to see. And if it isn't there's always the supreme court option.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    10-01-2013 11:15 AM
  24. qxr's Avatar
    Now the president... I stomp my feet and say I won I won you have to do it my way. Trouble is Boehner and house republicans won too, the people put them in charge of the purse strings. No more my way or the highway. Time to govern not rule as stated by v. Jarret when you won the prseidency. The fact that you never learned to run a business or a state gov't shows. Theory is not the same as real life applications.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    10-06-2013 03:35 PM
  25. qxr's Avatar
    I show my true colors by allowing my sec. of defense to with hold the death benefits for 26 fallen soldiers to make a political point. Hagel must be fired.
    If Hagel did not know then he is incompetent and must be fired.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    10-10-2013 08:02 AM
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