11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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  1. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Christie's base is long sense gone. Never underestimate the ability of the conservative base to hold a grudge and write someone off as a closet liberal. Expecially now that Republican leaders have completely written off the base(except when they come crying for votes).

    There is a wave coming. And I don't know what is going to come from it. The Republican party has circled the toilet for far too long. Conservatives are fed up. They won't take it for much longer. I am thinking that the next presidential election will be about the time **** hits the fan. Now will it reform the party of just destroy it? I can't say. But the party will be shaken to its core I will guarantee you. What happens after that will be key.
    The problem with the GOP is they have gone so far right that they are pissing off the middle. GOP is being held hostage by the Tea party. A group of radical rights. Problem is elections are decided in primaries and not in the general. Primaries tend to have the more be controlled by well the more radical groups.
    GOP is never go to win the presidency as long as they let the Tea Idiots run the show. The majority will not vote for them. The GOP mistake was not kicking them out at the beginning and taking the lumps early from the split ticket as it would of kept the party stronger long run.

    I hate the fact the Tea Idiots are running the show as they will not keep the dems in line.
    11-15-2013 02:51 PM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    The problem with the GOP is they have gone so far right that they are pissing off the middle. GOP is being held hostage by the Tea party. A group of radical rights. Problem is elections are decided in primaries and not in the general. Primaries tend to have the more be controlled by well the more radical groups.
    GOP is never go to win the presidency as long as they let the Tea Idiots run the show. The majority will not vote for them. The GOP mistake was not kicking them out at the beginning and taking the lumps early from the split ticket as it would of kept the party stronger long run.

    I hate the fact the Tea Idiots are running the show as they will not keep the dems in line.
    It's actually the opposite. The GOP as a complex is centered in the middle. Even a little left leaning on many issues. Has been for a long time. Most of the party gets elected on conservative campaigns. Then they get to Washington and do what ever they are told.

    If the more prominent tea party candidates were allowed to actually have pull in the party instead of having to fight both Democrats and Republicans, the whole party could be reformed and reconnected with its base. Unfortunately, the moderate leadership won't concede. They are convinced that you have to play the Democrat "promise and pander" game to win instead of the hard facts and policy its electorate wants.
    11-15-2013 03:01 PM
  3. Timelessblur's Avatar
    It's actually the opposite. The GOP as a complex is centered in the middle. Even a little left leaning on many issues. Has been for a long time. Most of the party gets elected on conservative campaigns. Then they get to Washington and do what ever they are told.

    If the more prominent tea party candidates were allowed to actually have pull in the party instead of having to fight both Democrats and Republicans, the whole party could be reformed and reconnected with its base. Unfortunately, the moderate leadership won't concede. They are convinced that you have to play the Democrat "promise and pander" game to win instead of the hard facts and policy its electorate wants.
    Unless you want to explain to me why the GOP is polling at record lows.
    You also miss the part that election are decided in the primaries not the general (safe red or blue districts as very few are really competitive) I am willing to bet most of the tea Idiots would have their *** handed to them if they ran up again a middle of road GOP in the general and no dem.
    You can not get around the fact that they are not scared of the general but the primary. A vocal minority is it.
    And the fact that you call them middle is laughable at best. Compared to the rest of the world the Dems are middle at BEST. GOP is pretty far right and keeps going that way. They are far from the middle. Dems have been shifting more to the right every day.
    11-15-2013 03:08 PM
  4. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Unless you want to explain to me why the GOP is polling at record lows.
    You also miss the part that election are decided in the primaries not the general (safe red or blue districts as very few are really competitive) I am willing to bet most of the tea Idiots would have their *** handed to them if they ran up again a middle of road GOP in the general and no dem.
    You can not get around the fact that they are not scared of the general but the primary. A vocal minority is it.
    And the fact that you call them middle is laughable at best. Compared to the rest of the world the Dems are middle at BEST. GOP is pretty far right and keeps going that way. They are far from the middle. Dems have been shifting more to the right every day.
    Name one right leaning policy the Democratic party has tried to pass at the federal level in the last 8 years...

    The tea party candidates have done exactly what they ran to do. People say that shutting down the government was a terrible move for them. Lol they ran on platforms that said they would do anything in their power to stop Obamacare. They did exactly what they were elected to do.

    I mean good lord. We have Republicans suggesting amnesty for illegals. The right leaning Republican party is just a front now. A way to ensure votes from those that don't pay any attention.
    cdmjlt369 and qxr like this.
    11-15-2013 03:33 PM
  5. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Name one right leaning policy the Democratic party has tried to pass at the federal level in the last 8 years...

    The tea party candidates have done exactly what they ran to do. People say that shutting down the government was a terrible move for them. Lol they ran on platforms that said they would do anything in their power to stop Obamacare. They did exactly what they were elected to do.

    I mean good lord. We have Republicans suggesting amnesty for illegals. The right leaning Republican party is just a front now. A way to ensure votes from those that don't pay any attention.

    Are you trying to tell me the elections for most of congress are not decided in primaries?
    Lets face it most of the people elected are decided in the primaries. Primaries tend to have farther right or farther left voting in them. No Middle ground. The Tea Party only has power because of the very safe red districts. If the system was no not rig and geremandered and can promise you that the Tea party would never of come to power.
    Most of the GOP is running scared of losing in the primary so they campaign on bat **** crazy and shut it down. I can promise you they are not representing the will of a majority of the peopel in their district but the will of the far right.
    Tea Party is an example of why we need massive reform in ending germandering and our primary system.
    11-15-2013 04:22 PM
  6. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    It seems as though we have arrived at a "we told you so" moment where most conservatives and opposition of obamacare suddenly look like geniuses. Seems like the repeated attempts to repeal obamacare were well warranted after all. And no matter what you thought about Romney he was spot on about Obama's second term, see video.



    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    qxr likes this.
    11-15-2013 04:27 PM
  7. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Are you trying to tell me the elections for most of congress are not decided in primaries?
    Lets face it most of the people elected are decided in the primaries. Primaries tend to have farther right or farther left voting in them. No Middle ground. The Tea Party only has power because of the very safe red districts. If the system was no not rig and geremandered and can promise you that the Tea party would never of come to power.
    Most of the GOP is running scared of losing in the primary so they campaign on bat **** crazy and shut it down. I can promise you they are not representing the will of a majority of the peopel in their district but the will of the far right.
    Tea Party is an example of why we need massive reform in ending germandering and our primary system.
    So because they win the primaries and (you claim) that no one runs against them, they don't represent their electorate and are just a bunch of crazies everyone hates. Right...

    You clearly need to get in better touch with the heartlands of this country. There is a lot more than just California and the Northeast. If you cut out the stereo types and media demonization, conservatism is the view of the average, hard working American that wants the government to get out of the way so they and even people around them can prosper.
    qxr and cdmjlt369 like this.
    11-15-2013 04:36 PM
  8. msndrstood's Avatar
    Oh, has the fat lady sang already? I must have missed it.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    11-15-2013 04:37 PM
  9. Timelessblur's Avatar
    So because they win the primaries and (you claim) that no one runs against them, they don't represent their electorate and are just a bunch of crazies everyone hates. Right...

    You clearly need to get in better touch with the heartlands of this country. There is a lot more than just California and the Northeast. If you cut out the stereo types and media demonization, conservatism is the view of the average, hard working American that wants the government to get out of the way so they and even people around them can prosper.
    Gerrymandering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Something you need to read to understand my point.

    I never said no one ran against them what I said was very safe red or very safe blue. We have very areas that are competitive. Most are sold one or the other. The GOP heavily rigged the state districts in their favor. Every place they had control in they set it up that way. This is made even worse with modern mapping technology as they get can the districts down to much narrow margins and still be safe.
    our primary and congressional district system nation wide needs MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE reform. Any election decided in the primary is an issue as it causes a representive who is either farther left or farther right than the district really is to get into office as it is not like they have to pander the other 45+% of their district. They only have to worry about less than 30% give or take and even of that 30% less than that as they only have to worry about the more extreme ends who tend to vote in primaries.

    It is bad system and broken. Tea party never would of come to power if it was not for the primaries.
    11-15-2013 04:46 PM
  10. Timelessblur's Avatar
    It seems as though we have arrived at a "we told you so" moment where most conservatives and opposition of obamacare suddenly look like geniuses. Seems like the repeated attempts to repeal obamacare were well warranted after all. And no matter what you thought about Romney he was spot on about Obama's second term, see video.



    No, Sadly obamacare is still night and day better than the pill of crap we had before. That should speak volumes about how bad the previous system was but we have GOP refusing to even try to work to fix it. Instead it has been scream REPEAL. Well my answer to them is come up with a better solution and put it forward.
    Btw Obamacare is a GOP idea.
    I would rather it be a single payer and get the healthcare off the back of employers.

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    11-15-2013 05:53 PM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    I'm sure we've all seen some variation of this:

    I was drawing fast, so it's not exactly to scale but it's close. If 100% of the population is inside the giant square that this thing makes, the majority of people will fit into the cicle. The circle in this picture has an area equal to 55% of the larger square, however an actual standard deviation would be usually about 68.2%, so the cicle would be slightly bigger. 25% of the total area is the "moderate" category, however it's 46% of cicle. Meaning, that almost half of the majority (55% in the picture, but 66-68% in reality) of people are deeply centrist moderate, while the other half of the majority leans to one direction, but is still closer to moderate than to the extreme wings. With less than 1/3 of people left to devide to the 4 wings, and ranges in between those, any power to the wings is vastly unwarranted.

    It's really telling about our process to notice that almost the entirety of Congress is on the right side of the diagram, with the majority of those in the lower right.


    11-15-2013 06:21 PM
  12. qxr's Avatar
    Obamacare was designed to destroy our free market system. Yes we needed reform but why not do it piece by piece. Why did people responsible people have to lose their insurance so we could basically expand medicaid and force people to pay for other peoples birth control even if they are too old to need maternity or the wrong gender. Why did the dems not even listen to the doctors,they had in congress. No they passed this without even trying to work together.
    Further how ignorant can they be if they could not even test their website adequately. They were arrogant and six weeks later are still pointing fingers.
    Where does the president get the aurhority to change this law? That is not the executive branches authority and no one cares. He is frightening. He acts like a dictator, like what he did to bp after the spill. He had no authority to tell them how much to put into a fund for his people to disperse. We have a court system for that purpose and he does whatever he wants. He has done the same with onamacare. He had no authority to postpone the employer mandate but he did and the press does not say a word.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    cdmjlt369 and plumbrich like this.
    11-15-2013 06:22 PM
  13. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Obamacare is a joke. Website, step one doesn't work. They had over 3 years to have this ready. People are already complaining about ACA premiums and deductibles. 5,000, 000 people who pay for their insurance have gotten cancellation notices. So far, of the new people covered, 80% fall under the "free" portion. That could have been handled with medicaid guidlines. So that means 20% of the people will be paying for 100% of the program at that ratio. Wonder how much of that 20% had coverage they liked elsewhere and were forced on obamacare because of cancellation by their company. Competition is what creates diversity in pricing. A mandated healthcare law can't be as reasonably priced as healthcare on the competitive market. They knew people wouldn't buy obamacare after it was seen for what it was. Remember, "we need to pass it to see what's in it" ? She should have said we need to mandate it or the won't keep it. The whole purpose of the mandate was to force money into their program. Something good doesn't need to be forced.

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    qxr likes this.
    11-15-2013 06:22 PM
  14. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I'm sure we've all seen some variation of this:

    I was drawing fast, so it's not exactly to scale but it's close. If 100% of the population is inside the giant square that this thing makes, the majority of people will fit into the cicle. The circle in this picture has an area equal to 55% of the larger square, however an actual standard deviation would be usually about 68.2%, so the cicle would be slightly bigger. 25% of the total area is the "moderate" category, however it's 46% of cicle. Meaning, that almost half of the majority (55% in the picture, but 66-68% in reality) of people are deeply centrist moderate, while the other half of the majority leans to one direction, but is still closer to moderate than to the extreme wings. With less than 1/3 of people left to devide to the 4 wings, and ranges in between those, any power to the wings is vastly unwarranted.

    It's really telling about our process to notice that almost the entirety of Congress is on the right side of the diagram, with the majority of those in the lower right.


    https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...50828680_n.jpg
    Interesting chart.

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    11-15-2013 06:30 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    Updated on examples of recently famous politicians:
    (Based on economic and social principles)

    11-15-2013 06:35 PM
  16. qxr's Avatar
    Updated on examples of recently famous politicians:
    (Based on economic and social principles)

    https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...41441407_n.jpg
    Sen. Warren, miss 1/32 indian is a moderate...not a chance.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    11-15-2013 07:14 PM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    Sen. Warren, miss 1/32 indian is a moderate...not a chance.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    Compared to average americans, yes, absolutely. She's more mainstream liberal than most politicians, but fits about dead center with actual liberals, with an outlook that puts individual rights and freedoms over those of corporations and generally over government, so she's moderately an individualistic liberal.

    This might help to put the actual spectrum on there. As you can see, positionally she's still well to the blue side within the both centrist subsets.

    11-15-2013 07:33 PM
  18. qxr's Avatar
    Compared to average americans, yes, absolutely. She's more mainstream liberal than most politicians, but fits about dead center with actual liberals, with an outlook that puts individual rights and freedoms over those of corporations and generally over government, so she's moderately an individualistic liberal.

    This might help to put the actual spectrum on there. As you can see, positionally she's still well to the blue side within the both centrist subsets.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...76706404_n.jpg
    Be interesting to see where you would put b.o.
    Frankly I think sen. Warren is too rely on the state and anti free market.


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    Aquila likes this.
    11-15-2013 08:05 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    Be interesting to see where you would put b.o.
    Frankly I think sen. Warren is too rely on the state and anti free market.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    Really? I've seen a lot of anti fascism statements from her, but not many in favor of government/corporate collusion. I honestly don't follow her very much, so most of what I see are memes and youtube videos, but she seems to hate special interests and be very much in favor of equal standards for indviduals. I could easily be very wrong about her, but I definitely view her as an anti-fascism liberal based on what I have seen.
    msndrstood and gamefreak715 like this.
    11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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