11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    I think my immigration views are slightly skewed from the average because I was not born here and I had dual citizenship until I was 18 and I speak/read and/or write in 5 languages (poorly in 4 of them). Personally I'm a "the more the merrier" type of person when it comes to enhancing the culture, but our current paradigms of income and quality of life are completely broken for current course sustainability, so any meaningful conversation about how to include more people in the dream of freedom should also probably include logistics for increasing quality of life across the board, for them and current denizens.
    07-17-2013 10:31 PM
  2. Oofa's Avatar
    Great points. I like all your points except No. 6. I think people who have kids should get tax breaks and other benefits. We have a low birth rate in the US and we should be encouraging people to have children. We don't want to end up like Japan or other countries that have a negative birth rate.
    Taking for granted that your assertion that we have a low birth rate in the U.S. is correct (although I seriously doubt it but I haven't checked)........ we don't need a higher birth rate. And we certainly do not need to promote a higher birth rate by giving tax incentives. There are very few people that decide to have children so they can get a tax break. People will procreate with or without a tax incentive.
    msndrstood, nolittdroid and jdbii like this.
    07-19-2013 10:24 AM
  3. jdbii's Avatar
    Taking for granted that your assertion that we have a low birth rate in the U.S. is correct (although I seriously doubt it but I haven't checked)........ we don't need a higher birth rate. And we certainly do not need to promote a higher birth rate by giving tax incentives. There are very few people that decide to have children so they can get a tax break. People will procreate with or without a tax incentive.
    I would defer to a demographer on the facts but as any nation modernizes and attains affluence birth rates decline. It becomes a problem to afford retiree's benefits if there is a paucity of working age adults. Solutions include a higher birth rate or immigration to fill gap. People will always have children but in wealthy nations women have less children and later in life. That is very admirable and positive in countless ways, but it does create difficulty economically for taking care of the elderly.


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-19-2013 01:32 PM
  4. karsdroid's Avatar
    abolish irs.....institute a flat tax....everyone pays something, fair is fair! never did figure out how its "fair" for a few to carry the load for everyone....

    reform food stamp program......only healthy foods are available under new program....

    repeal obamacare....if you have to pass the law to know whats in the law, that's your first clue its not going to work, and when one the the authors of the bill calls it a "train wreck" that's your second clue....

    ban racial labels.....can we all just be americans or even better, humans, and EVERYONE stop talking about the color of someones skin, it's whats beneath the skin, what we think and what our actions are that really matters....
    cdmjlt369 and badbrad17 like this.
    07-19-2013 05:47 PM
  5. chadthebuilder's Avatar
    1. Repeal ObamaCare
    2. Cut back on government size and spending ( absolutely no need for a government as large as we do)
    3. Establish flat rate taxes, so everyone pays same percentage as everyone else.
    4. Lower taxes so more businesses can grow and hire more more people, thus, reducing unemployment.
    5. Ensure we have a good defense system to protect our nation.
    6. Reintroduce the Gold Standard ( money must be backed by gold)

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy tab with Android 4.2.2
    karsdroid and cdmjlt369 like this.
    07-19-2013 06:25 PM
  6. gollum18's Avatar
    Hahaha... Only one thing I would do. Repeal Obamacare. Did you see he's putting out commercials now that highlight all of the good parts in an attempt to make it look better.

    I mean he couldn't give us a true socialist government funded healthcare system like Canada or France, but instead gave us a half baked system that really doesn't change anything but force you to get healthcare or pay a hefty fine.

    The sliding fee doesn't even work in certain situations. One of my profs owns 2 pita pits, and its cheaper for him to pay the fine then it is to actually provide the healthcare.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    karsdroid and nolittdroid like this.
    07-19-2013 06:25 PM
  7. gollum18's Avatar
    reform food stamp program......only healthy foods are available under new program....

    They are actually looking on doing this now, to make it similar to what foods the wic program offers. However they may have to raise food stamp payments because health food is ridiculously expensive. Its the reason why most people on food stamps buy junk food rather than healthy food, I should know my family has been on food stamps for ~ 10 years.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    07-19-2013 06:28 PM
  8. chadthebuilder's Avatar
    They are actually looking on doing this now, to make it similar to what foods the wic program offers. However they may have to raise food stamp payments because health food is ridiculously expensive. Its the reason why most people on food stamps buy junk food rather than healthy food, I should know my family has been on food stamps for ~ 10 years.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    They probably won't raise food stamp payments. They'll just raise my taxes to get the money for other peoples food stamps.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy tab with Android 4.2.2
    Live2ride883 likes this.
    07-19-2013 06:30 PM
  9. gollum18's Avatar
    They probably won't raise food stamp payments. They'll just raise my taxes to get the money for other peoples food stamps.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy tab with Android 4.2.2
    I would explain why it is necessary to do so, but I don't know how to do so without being a racist.

    Let me just tell you, the government should make it so only two children can be on one food stamp case at a time. They've had to cut back on a lot of the assistance programs because of certain groups of people taking blatant advantage of it.

    For instance we used to have the Mary k. Tucker program for underprivileged children to be able to buy clothes for school. They would give you a $150 gift card for Kmart or sears. But they had to eliminate that program because people were getting the cards and selling them, as they qualified for them but didn't need them. Because they have enough children to live very comfortably off welfare.

    I've seen people in the development down the street from us who probably live more comfortably then you do. Driving around in $60,000 cars and wearing $200 clothes. Its pathetic really, these people are supposed to be in welfare. Yet they live better than 80% of all the Americans in the us do.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    07-19-2013 07:05 PM
  10. msndrstood's Avatar
    I would explain why it is necessary to do so, but I don't know how to do so without being a racist.

    Let me just tell you, the government should make it so only two children can be on one food stamp case at a time. They've had to cut back on a lot of the assistance programs because of certain groups of people taking blatant advantage of it.

    For instance we used to have the Mary k. Tucker program for underprivileged children to be able to buy clothes for school. They would give you a $150 gift card for Kmart or sears. But they had to eliminate that program because people were getting the cards and selling them, as they qualified for them but didn't need them. Because they have enough children to live very comfortably off welfare.

    I've seen people in the development down the street from us who probably live more comfortably then you do. Driving around in $60,000 cars and wearing $200 clothes. Its pathetic really, these people are supposed to be in welfare. Yet they live better than 80% of all the Americans in the us do.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    Really? Only feed two children at a time?

    Typical recession scenario:

    You and your spouse have been laid off from your jobs, you have 4 kids, because you are good Christian folk and don't believe in birth control or abortion, but you have to choose which two children to feed?

    Maybe you can see from this example how unrealistic your suggestion appears.

    Another scenario:

    They should get a job at Walmart, they're always hiring.

    70% of hourly Walmart employees qualify for food stamps and medical assistance.

    So that's out.

    Now what?

    Sent via Note II
    07-19-2013 07:39 PM
  11. jdpj2008's Avatar
    Deport Obama back to Kenya.
    Eliminate Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.
    Eliminate the IRS and goto a National Sales Tax.
    No benefits for illegal immigrants.
    Make English the official language of the US. Would push to make it unconstitutional to have states that require regular teachers to be bilingual. You learn to speak English.
    Pass laws that eliminate animal cruelty on the big corporate mega farms.
    Eliminate high fructose corn syrup from our food supply. Cut back on sugar.
    Free all people from prison that are incarcerated for simple possession of marijuana.
    Eliminate for profit prisons.
    Eliminate all laws against industrial hemp,(The four species that don't contain THC) and push to have hemp replace cotton.

    That's just day one.
    Started off bad and got progressively better, starting with the pass laws to eliminate section.

    sent from my soon to be replaced HTC Rezound
    07-19-2013 07:47 PM
  12. Aquila's Avatar
    How many people abusing safety nets is too many to make it not worth helping those that actually do need it? What better way can we try to eliminate poverty, hunger, poor education and all the illnesses, sociological and psychological issues that stem from those three things? Doing nothing obviously just creates a cycle where of increasing poverty, ignorance, social divide and increased fear, crime, etc. What's the best way to ensure children are fed, clothed, sheltered and well educated, while still giving liberty to the parents to conduct parenting in their own way (within the laws, etc) and at most optimized cost to those better off who are fortunate enough to be able to help?
    07-19-2013 07:53 PM
  13. gollum18's Avatar
    How many people abusing safety nets is too many to make it not worth helping those that actually do need it? What better way can we try to eliminate poverty, hunger, poor education and all the illnesses, sociological and psychological issues that stem from those three things? Doing nothing obviously just creates a cycle where of increasing poverty, ignorance, social divide and increased fear, crime, etc. What's the best way to ensure children are fed, clothed, sheltered and well educated, while still giving liberty to the parents to conduct parenting in their own way (within the laws, etc) and at most optimized cost to those better off who are fortunate enough to be able to help?
    Man you really make me think..

    I understand all of the points you are making. But aren't we already in that cycle? Haven't we been there since the industrial revolution?

    I wasn't making any accusations towards a specific group of people as people from every race do thus. And there are people that honestly use it because they need it, not just because they don't want to work.

    Like I've said being raised in a poorer family, I've seen a lot on this issue. We've never been dirt poor thankfully as some unfairly are and I am very thankful for that. My mother has always done the best she could for us with the very limited income we've had. And due to a sever bone problem she is incapable of working so we kind of have to be on it.

    I would like to point out though. How can you afford to have children when you can't afford to pay for yourself? Welfare is only meant to support you temporarily when times are rough, its not meant to support you the rest of your life. As I have seen so many others do.

    I'm sorry if this sounds really biased, I tried to respond as objectively as I could, these are just my opinions on the matter.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    07-19-2013 08:04 PM
  14. gollum18's Avatar
    Really? Only feed two children at a time?

    Typical recession scenario:

    You and your spouse have been laid off from your jobs, you have 4 kids, because you are good Christian folk and don't believe in birth control or abortion, but you have to choose which two children to feed?

    Maybe you can see from this example how unrealistic your suggestion appears.

    Another scenario:

    They should get a job at Walmart, they're always hiring.

    70% of hourly Walmart employees qualify for food stamps and medical assistance.

    So that's out.

    Now what?

    Sent via Note II
    That's what abstinence is for.

    Edit: And why can't the family afford to feed everyone? Both parents plus the two children would receive food stamps, that's more than adequate to feed everyone. They would just have to be more thrifty with it.

    My mother was feeding twelve people at once when only 4 were receiving food stamps plus a measly little 200$ rent payment. We could barely afford to pay our 1300$ bills (in a trailer BTW) and still be able to afford food.

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    07-19-2013 08:11 PM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    That's what abstinence is for.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    That is unrealistic and against human nature.

    Sent via Note II
    07-19-2013 08:42 PM
  16. gollum18's Avatar
    That is unrealistic and against human nature.

    Sent via Note II
    I realize this but honestly that is what both the church and Disney channel preach. I was just throwing back a little gunfire of my own.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-19-2013 08:46 PM
  17. Tele_Phone's Avatar
    Android and free unlimited data for all

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using AC Forums mobile app
    Aquila and cdmjlt369 like this.
    07-19-2013 08:46 PM
  18. chadthebuilder's Avatar
    I don't mind food stamps, disability and other welfare programs. However, for too long, I have seen perfectly healthy people living with more luxury than me, yet they get everything free from the tax money that hard working people like me pay. It seems that this generation of Americans are very lazy ( not all of them though) I do not mind supporting truly disabled people, or those families that really need help. I do mind giving free stuff to perfectly healthy people who refuse to work. That is just wrong.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy tab with Android 4.2.2
    07-19-2013 08:56 PM
  19. gollum18's Avatar
    I don't mind food stamps, disability and other welfare programs. However, for too long, I have seen perfectly healthy people living with more luxury than me, yet they get everything free from the tax money that hard working people like me pay. It seems that this generation of Americans are very lazy ( not all of them though) I do not mind supporting truly disabled people, or those families that really need help. I do mind giving free stuff to perfectly healthy people who refuse to work. That is just wrong.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy tab with Android 4.2.2
    Thank you, that was the point I was trying to make before it got blown up out of proportion. Case closed, let's get back on topic here everybody.

    As president, I would also take the title of trust-buster from tubby Taft.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    07-19-2013 09:09 PM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    Welfare is only meant to support you temporarily when times are rough, its not meant to support you the rest of your life. As I have seen so many others do.
    You don't sound biased, or at least prejudiced, but more frustrated with the ineptitude of the current processes. This statement of yours that I quoted exactly demonstrates the need for reform, but when we talk about reform in a political sense, we don't even have consensus on what the problem is and whether or not the sick, poor and otherwise down on their luck people should receive help... so trying to figure out the specifics of optimizing the help to need relationship is very difficult when some people are pushing for it to either be zero help or negative help, "yeah we'll help, but they have to do x, y and z". These situations on an individual level are not cookie cutter and nearly every anecdotal case has the potential to bend or break the mold.

    It's not wrong to be frustrated that it isn't working correctly, but it's a very dynamic and complicated set of issues. We are definitely in a cycle of poverty leads to ignorance leads to crime leads to poverty, etc. but our status quo societal activities actually seem to promote that cycle, rather than attempting to interrupt it. Not everyone needs to try to understand or change every facet of it, but this is one of the main reasons for valuing patience and open minded tolerance over the more emotional reactions to surface preconceptions.

    Of course there are people abusing the system and that sucks. I don't know how to fix that right now but I'd be curious what the ratio of abuse to correct use is, etc. I'm not sure what percentage of waste I would consider healthy or whatever, but I suspect based on how other programs run, that most of the waste and misuse of the system is actually on the bureaucratic side of things, not on the part of the beneficiaries.
    gollum18 likes this.
    07-19-2013 09:23 PM
  21. msndrstood's Avatar
    Sorry, double post.

    TT acting up again, it appears.

    Sent via Note II
    07-19-2013 10:33 PM
  22. msndrstood's Avatar
    I was addressing the issue of feeding only two children on food stamps.

    I don't disagree that there are moochers out there, but there are many truly in need and are being demonized by many that they are lazy, or just want a free ride.I was making the point that sometimes people can't foresee or don't have control over situations they find themselves in.

    To judge many because of the few is not fair.

    Addendum

    I am curious if you have children. (Not being rude or mean, just curious). Have you ever had to tell a child there is nothing to eat? There are people in this country that don't eat every day.

    Blows my mind.

    This might give you a little insight on the problem.

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/national...emailtoafriend

    Sent via Note II
    07-19-2013 10:36 PM
  23. Fairclough's Avatar
    Am I the only one who views the wealthy should pay mor?

    E.g your first 20k isn't taxed next 20 at 5% next at 10 etc

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    Imnutsnj and msndrstood like this.
    07-20-2013 04:25 AM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    I was addressing the issue of feeding only two children on food stamps.

    I don't disagree that there are moochers out there, but there are many truly in need and are being demonized by many that they are lazy, or just want a free ride.I was making the point that sometimes people can't foresee or don't have control over situations they find themselves in.

    To judge many because of the few is not fair.

    Addendum

    I am curious if you have children. (Not being rude or mean, just curious). Have you ever had to tell a child there is nothing to eat? There are people in this country that don't eat every day.

    Blows my mind.

    This might give you a little insight on the problem.

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/national...emailtoafriend

    Sent via Note II
    Great story. . much is wrong here.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-20-2013 04:44 AM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Am I the only one who views the wealthy should pay mor?

    E.g your first 20k isn't taxed next 20 at 5% next at 10 etc

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    I'm not sure what I think or fair, but I do think it depends on the goal and whether you're thinking about burden as an amount or a percentage or a net effect. Very complicated and I'm no nearer to a solution than two months ago.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    Fairclough likes this.
    07-20-2013 04:47 AM
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