11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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  1. Fairclough's Avatar
    Fair enough. I just figured lower econ groups need more of their net income before tax to get by while the weather need less. Hence why I as you reach each bracket that section should be taxed more

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    07-20-2013 05:26 AM
  2. chadthebuilder's Avatar
    Am I the only one who views the wealthy should pay mor?

    E.g your first 20k isn't taxed next 20 at 5% next at 10 etc

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    That is a ridiculous and unfair way to tax. If I am rich and you are more midrange in wealth, why should my taxes be 50% and yours 30%? If we both pay flat tax, I make more money, so I still pay more taxes than you because I make more money, and flat tax is a percentage. Not to mention, that it would eliminate the need for spending hundreds of billions of dollars that the IRS spends on all the processes of our complicated tax system.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy tab with Android 4.2.2
    07-20-2013 07:12 AM
  3. Fairclough's Avatar
    Let's say if there is a family who has an income 50k 10% will be 5k leaving them with 45 that's more damaging then someone who earns 1000000 and pays 100k right?

    That way with brackets you can redistribute the wealth. Not the % isn't of all your income.

    Let's say the first 20k you earn isn't taxed but 20001 -29999 is taxed at 5%, 30000-49000 taxed at 7% etc.

    So it could work out at let's say 4% in total of your whole income.


    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-20-2013 07:16 AM
  4. gollum18's Avatar
    The whole concept of the rich paying more taxes isn't really new here in america. Its been discussed time and time again. But you have to understand fairclough.

    As I'm sure you're well aware, fairclough, people burst into flames whenever it's brought up.

    I have always stood by this tax system as well (may be the socialist in me). But I had always thought it fair that the mega rich pay more taxes than the middle or lower classes. If they have the money, why not?

    Its not like they don't find ways to weasel out of paying taxes now anyway.
    Ie. Tax loopholes, offshore bank accounts, tax write offs, etc etc...

    While in theory it sounds like a good idea. It would be the end of the world if a law reforming taxes like that was passed here. Because as you also know, Americans hate socialism. Especially with the whole McCarthy era thinking still embedded in the minds of the older generations.

    But then what is Obamacare?

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    07-20-2013 07:44 AM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    Forced fascism to the banker insurance mogul gods?

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    gollum18 likes this.
    07-20-2013 07:47 AM
  6. gollum18's Avatar
    Forced fascism to the banker insurance mogul gods?

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    You know I heard something interesting about obamacare the other day.

    If you work for congress or are higher up in any of the three branches of our government, you don't even have to worry about obamacare, it doesn't even apply to you.

    Is this true? If so how is that fair or equal?

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    07-20-2013 08:01 AM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    You know I heard something interesting about obamacare the other day.

    If you work for congress or are higher up in any of the three branches of our government, you don't even have to worry about obamacare, it doesn't even apply to you.

    Is this true? If so how is that fair or equal?

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    Because you have federal health insurance?

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    07-20-2013 08:23 AM
  8. Live2ride883's Avatar
    So mother's when raising their child will be paid their normal wage capped at 70k to leave work to raise a child only if they intend to return to the work force. The wage will be paid by the government.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    Just where is the government going to get this money?
    07-20-2013 09:57 AM
  9. Garneth's Avatar
    What would you try to fix, accomplish, implement etc within your first month, first year, second year and so on.

    Maybe something along the lines of the justice system, tax system, unemployment, education, the health industry, foreign policy and whatever else you'd want to tackle.

    Please try to provide serious consideration to the responsibility that you would possess.

    Justice system: Not allow cases like Trayvon Martin's to fail and reach not guilty. I'd revisit the self-defence claim. Zimmerman DID conceal a gun after all.

    Tax System: I don't have an opinion on this. My income tax is fine I guess.

    Unemployment: I'd create more jobs by lending money to small businesses so they can thrive and hire more employees.

    Education: See Finland

    Health: I'd push for free basic medical care and insurance for those who cannot afford it. Lets not leave anybody screwed over. Happier people makes a happier country!

    Foreign Policy: I'd look towards improving our relations with Iran. I am Iranian and I'd love to visit my home country, but I can't due to the issues between the USA and Iran.

    Posted via Android Central App on my HTC One
    msndrstood likes this.
    07-20-2013 10:09 AM
  10. Fairclough's Avatar
    Just where is the government going to get this money?
    Their idea was founded on a 1.5% tax on profits for major companies.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    07-21-2013 02:12 AM
  11. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Their idea was founded on a 1.5% tax on profits for major companies.
    Its more than likely that those "major companies" passed that expense onto the consumer in the form of higher prices.

    Here's an idea SAVE your money for unexpected expenditure's and PLAN ahead. Self reliance is a good thing.
    07-21-2013 08:03 AM
  12. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Justice system: Not allow cases like Trayvon Martin's to fail and reach not guilty. I'd revisit the self-defence claim. Zimmerman DID conceal a gun after all

    I believe Mr. Zimmerman has a valid conceal carry permit.
    07-21-2013 08:06 AM
  13. Kilroy13's Avatar
    There would be a lot of butthurt people if I were president!

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2
    07-21-2013 08:20 AM
  14. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Taxing the wealthy will have consequences on the job market. Many of those people have employees amd would simply cut down on staff, pay, or benefits to meet their bottom line. Same problem obamacare is going to cause. I like the fair tax or a flat tax. Percentage based and people who have more pay more because they buy more. Plus, you get to have a say so in where that money is spent instead of giving it away to the government. I also believe this would boost the market. Everyone would instantly have more money at their disposal.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-21-2013 09:12 AM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    0.5 percent tax on all stock trades, no exceptions.

    Problem solved.

    Sent via Note II
    badbrad17 likes this.
    07-21-2013 12:56 PM
  16. Live2ride883's Avatar
    0.5 percent tax on all stock trades, no exceptions.

    Problem solved.

    Sent via Note II
    But you're still taking something from somebody that worked for it, and giving it to someone that didn't. Which is still a problem.
    07-21-2013 02:29 PM
  17. Oofa's Avatar
    I would defer to a demographer on the facts but as any nation modernizes and attains affluence birth rates decline. It becomes a problem to afford retiree's benefits if there is a paucity of working age adults. Solutions include a higher birth rate or immigration to fill gap. People will always have children but in wealthy nations women have less children and later in life. That is very admirable and positive in countless ways, but it does create difficulty economically for taking care of the elderly.


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    If these women that are having less children and later in life are wealthy, a tax break would not mean much to them. As a matter of fact, they would be better prepared to pay higher taxes for having children.

    When and where has there ever been a problem with a lack of working adults making retiree's benefits a problem? That's just an unfounded theory. Retiree benefits were horrible when the U.S. was procreating like rabbits and will continue to be horrible but not because of low birth rates due to not enough tax breaks for families. There are so many more financial opportunities today for the elderly than there was when the U.S. had a much higher birth rate. Immigration in the U.S. fills more than a gap in any low birth rate the U.S. may have. I think it's a huge leap to make to link no tax breaks for families to low birth rates and less retiree benefits.

    Bottom line is that if you are serious about bringing another human being into this world, you should be serious about having to pay whatever it costs without having the government subsidize your egotistical need or desire to pass on your genes. If we taxed families extra for the burden of dealing with their offspring, we would have a much wealthier society and birth rate would remain the same. Generally speaking, people have children to satisfy emotional reasons more often than to satisfy financial reasons.
    07-21-2013 03:08 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    But you're still taking something from somebody that worked for it, and giving it to someone that didn't. Which is still a problem.
    How about common good?

    When is enough money enough. 1 billion, 10 billion?

    You pay taxes for roads, not just for you, but for your family, friends, neighbors and strangers.

    The 'me' attitude is the reason this country is such a societal and culture mess.

    If you're not just like me, think like me, act like me, talk like me then you're not worth being here, or living for that matter.

    It may sound extreme, but I see and read it every day. We better wake up. What happened to the Christian way of taking care of your brother as your own? I don't think God divided us into groups to degrade, abuse and neglect each other. Did he?

    Nothing good will come from this economic disparity. The only power that the poor have is to riot and protest.

    Don't think living on less than a $1000 a month and $300 in food stamps is grandiose living. However, if you make millions a year from sitting at a desk and manipulating markets, well, that's a different story.

    Remember the French Revolution.

    I know you're going to mention the American Revolution, however, there are a lot more people in this country than there were in the 1700's, and they're relatively a lot poorer today (no ability to farm their own land or grow their own food most are urban dwellers with little opportunity in this economy) and are dealing with being demonized by the right.

    What would you have the poor do to better themselves? The training programs have been eliminated. College is out of reach, even if they could get a student loan. Start their own business? With what? How? You have to have money to have a computer etc. I've had my own business, I know what it takes to get it off the ground. It's not easy.

    Discontent breeds violence. It happened in the 60's, if this current trending belittling the poor keeps up, it'll happen again. People want change, and not the Tea Party kind.

    Since 2010, that movement has just made things worse. They are the ones dividing this country. Just google those signs from the 2010 TP rally in DC, many, many were disgustingly racist. I didn't see many people of color in that crowd them and I still don't see them at TP crowds now.

    Things have to change. And they will. But who will be left standing? And shouldn't we standing as one?

    Sent via Note II
    Oofa and lpt2569 like this.
    07-21-2013 03:21 PM
  19. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I am not against helping family, friends etc and in all honesty I am not fully against welfare/food stamps when those programs are used as they were intended to be used. To get you back on your feet, to help out when you have a need. However those programs especially food stamps should provide BASIC SUSTANANCE items only. Milk, rice, cold cereal, etc. I cannot stand to be behind someone in the checkout lane that's yakking or texting on their smartphone, then they pull out a food stamp card to pay for their steaks, shrimp, Pepsi/coke.

    I have worked hard since 9th grade to get where I am. Yes I have a nice house, some nice things because I have worked for them and earned them. There is no reason everyone else cannot do the same.

    I have lived on ham sandwiches for 6-8 months out of the year while working 2 jobs. While saving money so my kid could have braces when he needed them.

    This idea that the government is there to provide for us is creating an entitlement society that is only going to drag us further and further into debt.
    07-21-2013 04:13 PM
  20. msndrstood's Avatar
    I am not against helping family, friends etc and in all honesty I am not fully against welfare/food stamps when those programs are used as they were intended to be used. To get you back on your feet, to help out when you have a need. However those programs especially food stamps should provide BASIC SUSTANANCE items only. Milk, rice, cold cereal, etc. I cannot stand to be behind someone in the checkout lane that's yakking or texting on their smartphone, then they pull out a food stamp card to pay for their steaks, shrimp, Pepsi/coke.

    I have worked hard since 9th grade to get where I am. Yes I have a nice house, some nice things because I have worked for them and earned them. There is no reason everyone else cannot do the same.

    I have lived on ham sandwiches for 6-8 months out of the year while working 2 jobs. While saving money so my kid could have braces when he needed them.

    This idea that the government is there to provide for us is creating an entitlement society that is only going to drag us further and further into debt.
    But you didn't address the main part of my post.

    How are these inner city kids, and that's really who we're taking about, going to find a job?

    And why does anyone on Wall Street need billions of dollars and why can't they pay taxes on their trades? If everyday people have to pay taxes (without all of those grand loopholes and off shore accounts that the rich use to hide their fortunes and evade taxes) why shouldn't Wall Street do the same?

    You and I both know why. Money corrupts. Our Congress is bought by Wall Street and Big Business. It's not just a cliche, it's the truth. And why do the same people keep getting elected? They have gerrymandered their districts so they won't ever be out of a cushy job that pays 180,000 a year for about 150 days of work. WE are their employers. How would you deal with employees that only show up for work a couple days here and there.

    The House has set 9 working days for September. Who is in charge of that? The majority. The Republicans. The party of self sufficiency and get by on your own, the 'me' group I mentioned in my last post. Do as I say, not as I do works pretty well for them.

    The bottom line for me is fairness and equality for ALL.

    If you want to make welfare work, resume the training programs. Enroll welfare recipients in a vocational program have them sign a contract in plain English, spelling out the time frame to complete the training. If not completed in a timely (realistic) manner, decrease by a percentage that they get in cash assistance, not food stamps. Kids have to eat. If recipients don't complete the jobs program within the extended time frame, decrease their cash assistance each month until the job program is completed. Or they forfeit their cash assistance completely.

    But this will never happen. The jobs program takes money, which the House Republicans would never authorize because it's 'welfare'.

    Which brings us full circle.

    Help me out, what else can be done that doesn't hurt the children of these families? I'm open to ideas.

    Sent via Note II
    07-21-2013 04:37 PM
  21. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Personal and financial responsibility.

    As for the poor not being able to get ahead, well I think you're wrong. Its not easy, but it can be done. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

    Good things come to those who go out and chase them.
    07-21-2013 04:37 PM
  22. llamabreath's Avatar
    How are these inner city kids, and that's really who we're taking about, going to find a job?
    Maybe if they pulled their pants up, instead of letting half their behind hang out, they would have a chance. And it's not just black kids, plenty whites do it too.

    It's a generation thing.

    Live2ride883 likes this.
    07-21-2013 04:48 PM
  23. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I am 48 years old, during my life I have always tried to plan for my future financially. I have been broke and started over more times than I care to count. If everything stays on the course we have set we should have our house paid off in less than 10 years. Between the ages of 60 and 63 my wife and I should both be able to retire and be comfortable. Without discussing figures.

    What gives the government or anyone else the right to determine how much money is enough for me.
    07-21-2013 04:48 PM
  24. msndrstood's Avatar
    I am 48 years old, during my life I have always tried to plan for my future financially. I have been broke and started over more times than I care to count. If everything stays on the course we have set we should have our house paid off in less than 10 years. Between the ages of 60 and 63 my wife and I should both be able to retire and be comfortable. Without discussing figures.

    What gives the government or anyone else the right to determine how much money is enough for me.
    That's good for you. You had opportunities. Not every one had those opportunities. I'm asking for ways to encourage and help those in dire circumstances, do you have any ideas? I am serious.

    It's easy to say, pull your self up out of the gutter and do it on your own. But I am asking you, what would you tell a young black kid who is 16 and looking for a job when there are no jobs for young 16 year old black kids in the city. Would you hire him? I doubt it. Or a 29 year old white mother with three kids whose husband has walked out leaving her to fend for herself and 3 children. Walmart will not sustain a family of 4 without food stamps and Medicaid. And that's the problem.

    And how is the government telling you how much money you can have? You are against Wall Street paying any taxes on their trillions in trades? You're willing to pay their fees to carry out your trades, how is that different than paying a small transaction tax to help the country fund instruction or social programs? Most trades are $9.95 each time you trade. Make it an even $10.00, and use that nickel to fund a jobs program. Please, this isn't rocket science.

    I'm asking pointed, specific questions and looking for real answers. I'm asking for help in figuring out solutions. But I've gotten nothing so far. (Not directed at you L2R specifically, but everyone who feels that the poor are nothing but moochers, no matter what their circumstances may be.)

    If you want solutions for the problems you have stated, you've got to come up with answers. Nothing is going to magically fix this mess. I've touched on a LOT of issues in my last two posts, and have heard no solutions.

    Again, I will ask, of anyone, what is the solution?

    Sent via Note II
    nolittdroid likes this.
    07-21-2013 05:18 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Unemployment will never be "solved" and it will always get worse. Technology will improve mechanization, automation and optimization. Prices will go down on labor because of more competition for the same diminished quantity of jobs. Expenses in business have to go down because people without jobs can't consume as much. This will lead businesses to more optimization, creating less jobs which means more competition and less revenue, leading to a need to further automate and mechanize. We should not be thinking about how to get jobs for everyone in the last century's paradigm, but how to figure out what people are going to do and how food/consumer goods/etc will be obtained when we no longer have a need for the majority of the population to have jobs in order to produce said food, goods, etc. This cycle is going to accelerate and we need to be thinking about what happens next, not how to stave off the future as long as possible because changing perspective is difficult and most of the country doesn't even know that the old way of life isn't even possible in the future.
    07-21-2013 06:08 PM
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