11-15-2013 08:18 PM
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  1. matt0715's Avatar
    Can you "show your side" without being so blunt? It can easily be misread as hostility.
    Sorry if you read it like that! I definitely respect everyone's opinions, but value my own and like to spread them. I'll definitely pay attention to how I word things.

    Posted via Android Central App
    08-04-2013 10:05 PM
  2. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Sorry if you read it like that! I definitely respect everyone's opinions, but value my own and like to spread them. I'll definitely pay attention to how I word things.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Thank you. You opinion is valued as well, and please continue to participate. Sometimes we just have to remember that things can be misinterpreted online

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AC Forums mobile app
    08-04-2013 11:27 PM
  3. palandri's Avatar
    I'm not American....but why are you guys trying to get rid of something that its trying to HELP you!!!!!!....
    There are a lot of misconceptions with national healthcare in the United States, due to a distrust in anything the government does.

    Here's a video that shows a lot of the misconceptions, but let me preface this video with: It was done by journalism students that are pro-Obama and pro-national healthcare, so it is bias to the left, but I think it does show a lot of the misconceptions by the right. Moderators, if you think the video is in poor taste or slanted to far to the left, please delete it.

    08-05-2013 12:05 AM
  4. Fairclough's Avatar
    You're not an American, so obviously you don't understand our problems. This obamacare bill will raise our deficit significantly, obamacare costs MORE than what most people pay now, you have cancer? Guess what, the GOVERNMENT gets to choose whether you get treatment or not and what treatment that is. The doctors have no say in the decision. Overall, it is a violation of the American Constitution which you clearly don't understand. Okay, sure, this bill gets everyone covered, but it just does not work that way in America.
    Posted via Android Central App
    Don't even get me started on Government Legislative Law. Yeah I am Australian, whoopie doo but our law systems are from the same origins. EDITED BY MODERATOR. Do you realized that the United States Law is fundamentally based on the same values and principles as our own? I bet not. Your Legislative Law (Law made through governments) and Common law (Judge made law) is relatively similar - most of the process in fact. Infact your Common law comes from the same 400 year origins as ours which starts with King Henry the II followed by the conscious council. Infact your "Ivy's" infact are teaching their law students 1789 Common Law. (edit: English Common Law for clarification)

    Now we cleared your debate of I am Australian I don't know anything - before you say I only know this stuff because Australians were formed by criminals. I actually came from family settling and for employment, we too were founded by the british - however they screwed up and thought we were terra nullius thus common law was automatically enforced on the country rather than the law of the current inhabitants. (Please look to Mabo Vs Queensland State Trial 2 for an example were two hundred year old error is corrected).

    And you contradicted yourself. "This bill does get every one covered - but it doesn't work like that in America"... well clearly it does because the bill got everyone covered 0_-
    Your belief on increased costs is completely flawed. ohh wow socialized medicine really scared. Here is the facts I do a compare contrast and you will see which way is better.

    On the Left Australia, Middle Canada, Right America.
    Life expectancy 81.4 - 81.1 - 78.1
    Infant mortality rate 4.2 - 5.2 - 6.8
    Mortality amenable to health care (per 100 000 people in 2007) 57 - 77 - 96
    Physicians per 1000 people. 2.8 - 2.2 - 2.4
    Nurses per 1000 people. 10.1 - 9 - 10.6
    per capita expenditure on health (USD PPP) 3,353 - 3,844 -7,437
    Healthcare costs as a percent of GDP8.5 -10 -16
    % of government revenue spent on health - 17.7 - 16.7 - 18.5
    % of health costs paid by government 67.5 - 70.2 - 45.1

    So prior to Obamacare - not only were Americans paying more per person for health care, the percentage of government revenue on health care was far greater than any other country which has their healthcare paid for by their government. That is disgrace. Let alone a waste of money!

    msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    08-05-2013 05:42 AM
  5. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Fairclough, I just posted and asked that points be kept without hostility. Comparing his argument to the intelligence of a toddler is borderline insulting. I am cleaning up the post, any further insults by either party will be handled accordingly.
    Fairclough and Live2ride883 like this.
    08-05-2013 11:54 AM
  6. Fairclough's Avatar
    Often a common debate is the quality of care deteriorates when under a free system. Here is my experience. Sitting in my waiting room my doctor is busy, why? Because a drug has gotten bad PR and his re arranging everyone's medication, even if "the medical risk is relatively low, however, I wish not to take any chances so its better I call them in discuss the protential issues, risk and reevaluate their treatment" To me as a client for 17 years I view that's brilliant service.

    Posted via Android Central App
    msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    08-05-2013 09:57 PM
  7. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Often a common debate is the quality of care deteriorates when under a free system. Here is my experience. Sitting in my waiting room my doctor is busy, why? Because a drug has gotten bad PR and his re arranging everyone's medication, even if "the medical risk is relatively low, however, I wish not to take any chances so its better I call them in discuss the protential issues, risk and reevaluate their treatment" To me as a client for 17 years I view that's brilliant service.

    Posted via Android Central App

    It is interesting to me that those who oppose a universal health car system scream about having to wait for a visit or in the waiting room...I've always had to wait! I supported the Presidents original bill and my premiums went down about 50% in NY. The real issue is the deductible I have to meet but I am still receiving the same quality of care and I swear wait times are going down.

    Fairclough and msndrstood like this.
    08-07-2013 02:36 PM
  8. Fairclough's Avatar
    Waiting times cam be bad if you don't have private health care as if you had let's say a broken finger, emergencies have a higher priority there for cut in front. Similar with minor surgery. With my doctor, I believe his now only taking old clients/family of old clients as his retiring - you just ring him up. Negotiate a time and walk in and out. No cards, nothing - they have the details on their PC and bill the gov system so their is no extras. That's my experience at least.

    When I've had relatively bad injuries, m gave him a call and he just squeezes you into a spot. That's my experience not necessarily everyone's but my 2 cents worth the myths aren't true.

    Posted via Android Central App
    msndrstood and Aquila like this.
    08-08-2013 06:46 AM
  9. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Waiting times cam be bad if you don't have private health care as if you had let's say a broken finger, emergencies have a higher priority there for cut in front. Similar with minor surgery. With my doctor, I believe his now only taking old clients/family of old clients as his retiring - you just ring him up. Negotiate a time and walk in and out. No cards, nothing - they have the details on their PC and bill the gov system so their is no extras. That's my experience at least.

    When I've had relatively bad injuries, m gave him a call and he just squeezes you into a spot. That's my experience not necessarily everyone's but my 2 cents worth the myths aren't true.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Waiting times will get worse here. We already have a shortage of doctors. If anyone has listened to any of the interviews given by doctors on the subject of obamacare, they don't like it for severals reasons. Many of them are talking about early retirement. The shortage of doctors will get worse. Then you add 50 million more people to the mix who arent currently covered. No one is listening to the 2 sets of people that matter most in this situation. Doctors and business owners.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    08-08-2013 11:20 AM
  10. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Waiting times will get worse here. We already have a shortage of doctors. If anyone has listened to any of the interviews given by doctors on the subject of obamacare, they don't like it for severals reasons. Many of them are talking about early retirement. The shortage of doctors will get worse. Then you add 50 million more people to the mix who arent currently covered. No one is listening to the 2 sets of people that matter most in this situation. Doctors and business owners.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    The shortage of doctors isnt Obama's fault. Rather the fault of No Child Left Behind and the USs deplorable education system.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    08-08-2013 12:04 PM
  11. msndrstood's Avatar
    Doom and gloom from the naysayers. Just like any idea the President has, even if it was a republican idea to begin with.

    I, for one, am sick of it.

    Sent via Note II
    Fairclough likes this.
    08-08-2013 12:18 PM
  12. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I don't consider myself republican or democrat. I don't like the plan reguardless of where it came from. Ask doctors and business owners what they think of obamacare. I've only repeated what they are saying and in some cases its already started. Companies are already getting rid of full time positions and hiring part time help instead. A friend of mine who owns a small construction company has already had to layoff one of his crews to make up the difference. Other than obamacare, what other ideas has this administration put forth?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Live2ride883 likes this.
    08-08-2013 02:44 PM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    The shortage of doctors isnt Obama's fault. Rather the fault of No Child Left Behind and the USs deplorable education system.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    How so?
    Any statistics? Research? Facts?

    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    08-08-2013 04:05 PM
  14. Fairclough's Avatar
    Are they fearing a pay cut? Yeah each doctor might not be on 1 million dollars a year here, but a few hundred thousand a year is still pretty damm good if you ask me!
    If they work in the private sector - they won't have to worry about pay as well they can charge as high as they like.
    08-09-2013 07:56 AM
  15. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Are they fearing a pay cut? Yeah each doctor might not be on 1 million dollars a year here, but a few hundred thousand a year is still pretty damm good if you ask me!
    If they work in the private sector - they won't have to worry about pay as well they can charge as high as they like.
    There are elements of the bill that affect even private care. There are several areas where Obama care has the ability to dictate certain things in private healthcare. Then you have the IPAB board, which has the ability to tell what procedures and treatments a doctor can and cannot provide to certain individuals. This is one of the parts I was referring to. This board even has the right to make decisions regarding private healthcare.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    08-09-2013 11:13 AM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    Here's a real link to the ACA Law, not a right wing blog.

    Read the Law | HHS.gov/healthcare
    08-09-2013 02:20 PM
  17. msndrstood's Avatar
    Yeah your wrong. Please read number 2 at this link (it even includes the page number it appears on in the bill). 50 Dangers from Obamacare Coach is Right


    Posted via Android Central App

    This link is a mess, please post a direct link to the specific part of the ACA Law that you are referring to, anybody can put up a mess like the one on that page. I can't follow that.

    In addition, it states that the information posted is from the original House draft, it isn't even the final bill that became law.
    Fairclough likes this.
    08-09-2013 02:27 PM
  18. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    08-10-2013 06:54 AM
  19. A895's Avatar
    Well if I was President, I would:

    -Make all Marriages legal

    -Keep Marijuana illegal(making it legal would be a problem, imagine a high surgeon, pilot, driver or anyone else in a capacity that if under the influence of drugs can hurt themselves or others. Especially since I have never smoked or drank a day in my life, its not needed for life so why make it legal? Do we really need drugs legal now?)

    -Lower interest rates on student loans.

    -Work to get rid of Stand your ground law. Murder is murder. Unless you are in your home being threatened, you shouldn't kill anyone.

    -Increase taxation of those in the entertainment industry. They make 10s of millions of dollars a year they could lose a couple million for their country.

    -Make abortion legal. That is a personal matter and up to the person carrying the baby.

    -Make it harder for anyone to get hands on automatic weapons.

    -Increase teachers income somehow. The most important jobs should be more high paying. I met teachers who work two jobs to have a comfortable lifestyle. Not anymore.

    -Try to get entertainers and those in the entertainment industry paid less. They have way too much money and just sit on it, that can go into our economy.

    -Keep the drones. They are the ones I am looking for. I wouldn't mind drones patrolling the sky keeping an eye on things. Makes things futursticy. Maybe more crimes can be solved with something like that.

    -Stop helping third world countries all the time. Fix what's at home before you jump into the neighbors business.

    Posted via Droid RAZR M on the Android Central App
    08-15-2013 08:11 AM
  20. Live2ride883's Avatar
    So unless you are at home you have no right to self defense?
    08-15-2013 07:43 PM
  21. A895's Avatar
    So unless you are at home you have no right to self defense?
    You can self defend but killing someone is too far.

    Posted via Droid RAZR M on the Android Central App
    08-15-2013 07:46 PM
  22. Aquila's Avatar
    I have identified no less than 5 people that I will do everything in my power to ensure they are never elected to any high office. lol
    Live2ride883 likes this.
    08-15-2013 07:47 PM
  23. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Well if I was President, I would:

    -Make all Marriages legal

    -Keep Marijuana illegal(making it legal would be a problem, imagine a high surgeon, pilot, driver or anyone else in a capacity that if under the influence of drugs can hurt themselves or others. Especially since I have never smoked or drank a day in my life, its not needed for life so why make it legal? Do we really need drugs legal now?)

    -Lower interest rates on student loans.

    -Work to get rid of Stand your ground law. Murder is murder. Unless you are in your home being threatened, you shouldn't kill anyone.

    -Increase taxation of those in the entertainment industry. They make 10s of millions of dollars a year they could lose a couple million for their country.

    -Make abortion legal. That is a personal matter and up to the person carrying the baby.

    -Make it harder for anyone to get hands on automatic weapons.

    -Increase teachers income somehow. The most important jobs should be more high paying. I met teachers who work two jobs to have a comfortable lifestyle. Not anymore.

    -Try to get entertainers and those in the entertainment industry paid less. They have way too much money and just sit on it, that can go into our economy.

    -Keep the drones. They are the ones I am looking for. I wouldn't mind drones patrolling the sky keeping an eye on things. Makes things futursticy. Maybe more crimes can be solved with something like that.

    -Stop helping third world countries all the time. Fix what's at home before you jump into the neighbors business.
    At first I started to just do a quick reply, but then as I got more and more into your post that changed...

    No one cared about the validity or necessity of stand your ground law(s) until the recent trial of George Zimmerman. If you feel that stand your ground laws are not necessary or are unfair you may want to Google roderick scott christopher cervini

    But according to you, unless I am at home I have no right to self defense. FYI: I always carry a sidearm, and I almost always open carry.

    You want to tax someone more simply because of their chosen profession?

    Abortion is already legal in the US. (not sure where you live though)

    Obviously you have never tried to obtain an automatic weapon, or have very little knowledge of firearms.

    Now you want to increase the salary of teachers "somehow". I know single mothers that struggle just to get by on 2 jobs, and they still need help from month to month from friends and family members.

    Last I checked it's up to the individual (entertainers included) to decide how much of their income they save (sit on).

    Keeping drones is a very bad idea, they are an invasion of my right to privacy. The government has no business knowing where I go, who I visit etc.

    Please read or re-read 1984.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    08-15-2013 08:01 PM
  24. Live2ride883's Avatar
    You can self defend but killing someone is too far.

    Posted via Droid RAZR M on the Android Central App
    If it comes down to someone killing me, or me killing them, it will be them going in the ground.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have identified no less than 5 people that I will do everything in my power to ensure they are never elected to any high office. lol

    I'm probably on that list....
    08-15-2013 08:03 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    I'm probably on that list....
    lol, nah.

    Whether or not I'd vote for you is dependent on a myriad of issues and who you're running against, who is financing each side, etc. I'm talking about people I'd go fight against. Sabotage their campaigns, find people to run against them, write letters and opinion pieces in every paper and blog site I can find and hire college kids to rip them apart in facebook, twitter, etc. I don't mind people having differing opinions than me on whatever range of issues, but there are some things that are fairly intolerable.

    Example, I'd find it difficult to vote for Rand Paul because he's a fully bought and paid for corporate clown riding on the name and fame of his father, who despite having a few really great ideas and a solid (possibly misguided, but at least consistent) philosophy, is widely regarded as outright crazy. Given the choice between him and most people, I'd be inclined to not vote for him.

    Michelle Bachman on the other hand, I'd actively work to ensure the end of her career, were she to re-enter the national race. She's a lunatic (or at least her puppeteers are) and absolutely dangerous for the country. Her policy opinions are stupid, but that's not what I'm talking about. Her entire political existence is founded on creating a fear generated rift through the country. As a symbol of hatred, we can well do without her.

    Ironically, they're different shades of the same problem but that's another discussion.
    msndrstood likes this.
    08-15-2013 08:16 PM
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