07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. anon5664829's Avatar
    That's a rather bashful statement. The founders of this nation, were the brightest minds we have ever seen. They recognized the barbarity of other governments (authoritarian mainly) and built a government "for the people, by the people, and of the people".

    If they wanted to create a barbaric government they would have just instituted a dictator or king (doesn't matter they are both the same). But instead they chose to create one in which its people can and are encouraged to actively participate. And i consider that among the most precious of freedoms I have as an united states citizen.

    As per the second amendment, we all know it can be and has been interpreted differently. But the base premise remains the same. That the right to bear arms is reserved for out citizens in order to defend our lives, liberty, and country.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    I was wrong in saying that about the government however, they were still times where you had to defend yourself all the time, you couldn't rely on anybody.

    Posted via Android Central App
    07-20-2013 03:23 PM
  2. Live2ride883's Avatar
    They are not that type of barbaric. Furthermore, that amendment is so old,we might as well bring back slavery right?

    Posted via Android Central App
    43 million deaths due to democide inside and outside the Soviet Union during Stalin's regime.
    1937-1938 Japanese rape and pillage of Nanking during which they probably killed some 200,000 people

    http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.2.GIF
    07-20-2013 03:25 PM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    They are not that type of barbaric. Furthermore, that amendment is so old,we might as well bring back slavery right?

    Posted via Android Central App
    Seriously?

    Thread closed.
    07-20-2013 03:30 PM
  4. msndrstood's Avatar
    This is happening in my state. It's a dangerous precedent and needs to be stopped in its tracks.

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/08...-town-hostage/

    Discussion?

    Sent via Note II
    08-05-2013 06:14 PM
  5. Fairclough's Avatar
    Sounds like the gun debate thread! In my view the journalist is spot on with the terrorism ideology and deserves a pay rise for pointing out what they are. If this was in my own state, let alone near my house (granted guns if you were allowed to bring your gun in public) I wouldn't call the police, I would either call the TRG or walk down to their training base nearby my home to sort these nut jobs out. To be honest, from the article - he should of be stripped of his duties in 2010 and sacked from the police force. I think instead of the white house stepping into the Samsung V Apple case (the ban of ipads) they should have a look into this.

    I for one hope weapons are banned, it will be interesting to see what the pro gun supporters here will say.
    08-05-2013 08:02 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I for one hope weapons are banned, it will be interesting to see what the pro gun supporters here will say.
    I'm pro responsible gun ownership under the 2nd amendment, and I certainly don't condone this kind of action.
    Live2ride883 likes this.
    08-05-2013 08:39 PM
  7. Fairclough's Avatar
    I won't debate guns as everyone probably knows my views which include tightening of gun control. The real question would be who allowed these people with them to use them in such a manner? Or why hasn't anyone further up the chain hasn't taken action?

    Posted via Android Central App
    08-05-2013 09:41 PM
  8. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Obviously he's breaking the law and should be arrested and stand trial for his actions. Do you have any information on what's being done at the county or state level about this?


    Personally though the title for this thread could have been better chosen, something more discriptive of the actual content of the link you provided. Maybe "Local PA police chief violates citizens rights".

    As for where the Second amendment actually stands in importance when compared to the rest. George Washington had this to say. "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington)"


    This guy sounds like Thomas Jefferson could have been referring to him when he made this statement.
    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

    Also if you click the "about us" link at the top this is the sites self description, in bold just as they have it.
    Addicting Info started as a resource to discredit all the lies and propaganda that the right-wing spreads. When I undertook the project I thought I would probably have about 100 different articles about a number of different myths, and people could sort through them at will. Eventually that expanded to news and other info, and I quickly realized the DAUNTING task of actually trying to discredit EVERY right-wing myth that is in existence, especially with the constant creation of new ones.

    Read more: About Us - Addicting Info

    The NY Daily News posted this article on the subject:

    Pennsylvania police chief suspended for shocking videos showing him cursing, firing automatic weapons * - NY Daily News

    From about the middle of the page I copied this quote "This is not about guns. This is not a gun issue," Michael Morrill, the group's director, told reporters. "What this issue is about is abuse of power. We have a rogue police chief who is going out of his way to intimidate people."

    Read more: Pennsylvania police chief suspended for shocking videos showing him cursing, firing automatic weapons * - NY Daily News
    08-05-2013 10:28 PM
  9. msndrstood's Avatar
    I forwarded the article to a friend who is a national journalist. He helped me out on another issue a few years ago. He wrote back to let me know he forwarded it to TPM, who had covered the story previously. We'll see where that goes.

    As for the title of the thread...I think it's pretty important that this guy and his militia (no one has mentioned that aspect yet) were trying to intimidate the town's citizens from speaking at a public forum, effectively curtailing their first amendment right. I find that more disturbing then the gun toting. I take first amendment rights pretty seriously.

    As for the Thomas Jefferson aspect of the story. This guy and his cohorts think they are upholding the Jeffersonian principals, I'm sure. They're bullies and are holding this town hostage by intimidation. To me, this is no different than the clowns showing up at town hall meetings in 2009 with loaded AR 15's. Now, please tell me when that had ever happened prior to the current President's election. I'll tell you, never. Again, the intimidation factor.

    There is a faction in this country that is becoming increasingly unstable and dangerous, and the fact that they have loaded weapons and use them as a tool to pressure and scare people is intolerable in my opinion and needs to be stopped in its tracks. We're starting to act like a third world country.

    And ironically, in PA, if you want a Concealed Carry Permit, you have to get a document signed...by the local law enforcement.

    Checkmate.


    Sent via Note II
    Fairclough likes this.
    08-05-2013 11:26 PM
  10. Live2ride883's Avatar
    It's not the information I am having an issue with, it's how it is being presented for "discussion".

    You seem to be on the defensive in your reply so I'm just gonna back out of the conversation, cause honestly it's just not worth it at this point.
    08-05-2013 11:42 PM
  11. msndrstood's Avatar
    I'm sorry that you took it that way. I was stating my position that first amendment rights were not being discussed and that's why I put it in the title.

    I would rather discuss how things have come to this point. And how the use of guns in this case is inappropriate in order to achieve his goal.


    Let's give it another try, ok?

    Sent via Note II
    08-06-2013 12:47 AM
  12. Live2ride883's Avatar
    First off it's not a precedent, its an isolated event.

    The police chief in question was placed on suspension without pay, and the state patrol have taken over the duties of policing the community during the investigation.
    08-06-2013 02:40 AM
  13. msndrstood's Avatar
    Mods, you can close this thread. It is not achieving what I thought it would and rather than have it devolve into an argument, I'll take this discussion elsewhere. Thanks.

    Sent via Note II
    08-06-2013 10:37 AM
  14. Fairclough's Avatar
    Australian college athlete got killed in the us this week by a single gun shot to his back while on a jog... 14,16&17 year old children **** him as they wanted to go on a killing spree. Who the hell gives these kids guns.

    I feel bad for his family, girlfriend etc. His 23rd birthday is in 2 weeks time.

    Posted via Android Central App
    TomsAndroid and jdbii like this.
    08-19-2013 05:11 AM
  15. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Australian college athlete got killed in the us this week by a single gun shot to his back while on a jog... 14,16&17 year old children **** him as they wanted to go on a killing spree. Who the hell gives these kids guns.

    I feel bad for his family, girlfriend etc. His 23rd birthday is in 2 weeks time.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Are you blaming the gun or the person holding it.

    Unfortunately tragic events happen everyday.
    The Hustleman likes this.
    08-19-2013 12:54 PM
  16. gollum18's Avatar
    Guns are merely a tool, like any other. It is the intentions of the person wielding it that make it either a peacekeeping tool or a weapon of destruction.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    08-19-2013 03:18 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    A person can be killed with a 99 screwdriver.

    Or with a rock.

    08-19-2013 04:47 PM
  18. Fairclough's Avatar
    I am blaming all the gun, the kids, who let the kids have a gun thus the whole system.
    Who let's minors wield guns? Have access to them?

    If there wasn't guns available, cowardly action like this would not be available. you could someone could use a knife.... But that would require them to run up to them rather than to hide in a car and a shoot out.
    Posted via Android Central App
    08-19-2013 07:23 PM
  19. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I am blaming all the gun, the kids, who let the kids have a gun thus the whole system.
    Who let's minors wield guns? Have access to them?

    If there wasn't guns available, cowardly action like this would not be available. you could someone could use a knife.... But that would require them to run up to them rather than to hide in a car and a shoot out.
    Posted via Android Central App
    I let my kids have guns, my 12 year old daughter practically owes the ar15 that she shoots. This month she has also started using one of the ar30's I bought earlier this year. In all honesty I would trust her with my firearms before I would a lot of adults. Granted she does not have her own set of keys to the gun room in the basement or any of the safes, but if she ever wants to clean a weapon or practice stripping it etc, all she has to do is ask.

    Any tool can be used as a weapon, use is determined by the person wielding it. Sport shooting, self defense, target practice are all acceptable uses for a gun.

    As long as kids are properly trained in firearm use, safety, and they see mom and or dad properly handling firearms then what does it matter?
    The Hustleman likes this.
    08-19-2013 08:41 PM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    I let my kids have guns, my 12 year old daughter practically owes the ar15 that she shoots. This month she has also started using one of the ar30's I bought earlier this year. In all honesty I would trust her with my firearms before I would a lot of adults. Granted she does not have her own set of keys to the gun room in the basement or any of the safes, but if she ever wants to clean a weapon or practice stripping it etc, all she has to do is ask.

    Any tool can be used as a weapon, use is determined by the person wielding it. Sport shooting, self defense, target practice are all acceptable uses for a gun.

    As long as kids are properly trained in firearm use, safety, and they see mom and or dad properly handling firearms then what does it matter?
    I actually disagree with you on this. You wouldn't let children drive cars, would you?

    Fairclough and TomsAndroid like this.
    08-19-2013 08:55 PM
  21. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I actually disagree with you on this. You wouldn't let children drive cars, would you?

    I was driving trucks/tractors on my grandpa's farm at 12-13 years old.
    08-19-2013 11:30 PM
  22. llamabreath's Avatar
    I was driving trucks/tractors on my grandpa's farm at 12-13 years old.
    Well it must be a cultural/geographical thing then, because where i come from and where i live now.... If you see a twelve yr old behind the wheel, you get the hell off the sidewalk... QUICKLY.

    Aquila, Fairclough and msndrstood like this.
    08-20-2013 05:19 AM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    Well it must be a cultural/geographical thing then, because where i come from and where i live now.... If you see a twelve yr old behind the wheel, you get the hell off the sidewalk... QUICKLY.

    Insert joking about Ohio:

    Ha! Brooklyn and Hotlanta vs backwoods Ohio

    On one side Ohio is hard working farm and industrial and on the other it's almost Pennsylvania Amish country surrounded by some folks that make Cajuns look Hamptonite. Right in the middle of that there are a couple cities and a college. lol. Definitely a change of scenery One of my drivers comes from near Cincinnati every other weekend, he has some great stories. I've only actually been through Ohio a few times but only once very far from I70 and that was just taking a shortcut through Cleveland for an Indivians Chi Sox game on the way back from Buffalo. There's approximately nothing that reminds me of the coast about it.
    08-20-2013 06:12 AM
  24. Fairclough's Avatar
    It is true almost anything can be used as a weapon.... But most of those all require close proximity. I am sorry I don't mind sports purposes granted the individual can meet the criteria but letting a minor use them shouldn't occur. There is something bound to go wrong, mistakes happen or a wrong judgement.

    I work with 12 year olds on a daily basis, the amount of accidents which occur is out standing even. It just takes a lapse of judgement or the lack of full mental development to understand the repercussions of actions.

    You know what the boys who shot Chris in Oklahoma said "they just wanted to see someone die, because they were bored". This stuff happens when you allow minors with guns.

    Maybe it's my experience and opinion as I grew up where guns were removed away from us for our safety before the laws were placed on guns. (Family had a military and farming background, thus there was always rifles around nannas before she choose to hand them in after massacres)


    Posted via Android Central App
    08-20-2013 06:44 AM
  25. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I have only read a couple of articles on this incident, of course the parents are claiming the kids are innocent in those articles. According to the video the teens have confessed. This should leave no room for doubt of their guilt. I think that if they are old enough to make this decision then they are old enough to face the consequences of those actions, and they should be tried as adults, and I have NP with them getting the death penalty.

    But if this is what they come up with to do when they are 'bored' I just have to wonder what they are capable of when they have a plan.
    -----------
    My grandpa ran the family farm until he was in his 80's, putting in 10-12 hour days six days a week.
    -----------

    There are adults that I don't trust behind the wheel of a car, as with anything else you have to take the qualification of the person into account before you decide what he/she is responsible enough to handle.
    08-20-2013 09:07 AM
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